Ok guys as you know I had my first court hearing today.

You will never believe what happened, I'm in shock my self.

Well woke up early today, got dressed, fixed my hair (put my boxing golves on <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )and was ready to go!!! (Look really good too.) As I was driving to the courthouse I said a prayer, that the Lord give the strength to do this with out CRYING!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Well anyways I got there and as soon as I got to the court room I saw my WH. Walked over to him looking very confident and ready to do this. I sat next to him and we talked. I was very civil. He asked how I was, how the kids were and my family. Talked about all this for about 5 min. Then told him I was going inside the court room to wait inside. So I left and sat inside the court room.

Not even five min. later my WH came in and asked if he could sit next to me and I said yes. He starts saying that he didn't think that it would go this far and that if this is what I really wanted. I said that I didn't like my life the way it was for the past 7 months.

Then he starts saying that when this is all over and finalized that if we decided that we made a mistake that maybe we could try to work things out. And I said," X look I don't know if we can work this out, I don't know what lies ahead." Thats when he just came out and said that he didn't want to do this. I told him that I didn't want to live my life like this anymore. And he said that he would leave her (OW) to work it out.

I was like WHAT?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Total shock to me. I didn't expect to hear him say those words to me.

I told him look, I don't know whether to believe you or not, you've said this before, how do I know if you're telling me the truth or not. How do I know you're not lying. He said that he would prove it to me. He says that he'll leave her and move out.

Well anyways, our lawyers were discussing the amount of Child support he'll be giving and visitations for the kids, etc.

My H said he had to go for some training and his lawyer said it was ok for him to leave. He looked at me and told me that he was serious about wanting to work this out and he wasn't lying. He says he's gonna prove it to me. Gave me a kiss on the cheek and said I love you. And left.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

OH MY GOD!!! I actually had a dream that he would do this!!! Isn't that ironic.

What do I do? We still went through with the temporary orders.

This is something that i wished and prayed for and it actually happened. Now I'm scared, I don't know whether I believe him or not. What do you all think?

Oh and by the way, He dismissed the divorce on his part. My mom told me I got a letter in the mail today and she read it to me.

<small>[ June 27, 2003, 11:18 AM: Message edited by: STBXWife ]</small>

He is in the bargaining stage. He's realized what he lost. He'll probably want to be a "cakeman".
The stages of grief are something like the following:

Denial
Anger/Blame
Bargaining
Depression/Recovery
Acceptance

Picture this like a U, where bargaining is at the bottom part, and you begin to heal as you recover. You can easily slip back into any phase of this, and depression can occur in all phases.

If you really want this to work, do not allow him back into the house without guidelines. X,Y & Z must occur before you can consider reconciliation. If you don't establish your boundaries now, they will again be violated. And make a counselor one of the requirements.

God bless you and your family.

It's not just about moving out and not contacting the OW. There is a whole lot that goes into being willing to have an A.

I dumped the MC who told me that I need to make a commitment to the M so long as Tom isn't abusive or sees Sophia again. Well, does that mean I should continue in the M if he is disrespectful and nasty in a host of creative ways --

Be careful. I would agree it is the bargaining stage, and no contact with OW is just the tip of the iceberg.

I don't know your history, but I suspect this could be a sign of potential future reconcilliation. I know God can restore love and marriages, and that possibility is exciting! But you don't want the unhealthy past...you want a new, stable marriage.

One lesson I learned is that words are not enough. He's got to prove many things with his actions.

He should not just prove that he can leave OW but that he can do the hard work of recovering himself from the affair. Does he see where he got off track and does he have those issues resolved? Does he realize how deceived he was, and how to avoid the "fog" again? Is he willing to "date" for an extended period of time to regain your trust and take time to prove his commitment to you? Does he really love YOU?...or is he just tired of OW? Make sure he really loves YOU and has solid reasons, and that he has a solid foundation on which to build a new marriage...

Maybe go to a marriage conference or seminar...

May God bless you two! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ June 26, 2003, 02:31 PM: Message edited by: Renae ]</small>

OH MY!!!!!

Well, I agree with everyone about being cautious, etc. But I really am so happy for you! Stand your ground -- you didn't get this far for nothing -- but if he really wants to make it happen, he will.

I'm sure you're more than a little scared. Keep taking care of yourself and your children and keep us up to date. I think you were correct in going through the prelinary motions etc. Let him make the moves.

DIJ

Guys, my mind is racing a mile a minute. I know that we need to talk about things.

I need help! I don't know how to start. I need like a plan or a list of things that need to be done on his part and my part.

Gosh, my mind is going into overdrive!!!

HELP!!!!!

I think it would be a good idea to consult with the Harley's via telephone on this.
Also, read some books on boundary setting in M's.
Good Luck.

I say "you" don't do anything. Let him make the moves. During the times that my WH came home, I jumped in too fast - he knew he still had me - and it didn't work.

I'd agree, MC and consultation with the Harley's (individually and/or jointly) would be money very well spent.

Good luck. I think you should be nice but hold back. A plan needs to be put into place but I'm not sure you should be the initiator.

Dueinjan,
I think you're right. I was just really glad that he said that he wanted to work things out. But I think maybe I should hold back. If he really wants it to work he has to work at it.

Ok, I'll wait till he wants to talk about it. I won't even mention anything. I'll continue doing what I have been.

He has started to call me more often. I've started to be a little nicer to him.

But you know I'm confused! In plan b you don't talk or talk only about what is nessasary like about the kids. Now that he has said that he wants to work it out, should I still be NOT talking to him or be talking to him more? What if he doesn't leave the OW (cake eater)? How do I handle the phone calls?

I guess I should play it "cool". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

I don't know!! I think this is a pretty critical time for you. I know exactly what you mean, how do you exit out of Plan B to bringing back the marriage? Should you talk to him, let him be with the "family" or is he eating cake?

In the Surviving An Affair book there are fairly explicit directions. But it doesn't seem like you should be the one getting the ol' marriage books out. Maybe hand him the book with the pages marked and say, "this is the minimum of what it will require for me to want to work on this, please read it and tell me if you are in agreement of doing all of these things." If he seems hesitant, say, "I'm sorry, I can't go down this path again unless you're willing to jump in 100%, it's been too painful." Leave it at that.

I took my WH back several times. Each time the only thing I insisted upon was that he not contact OW. Each time he agreed and I let him move back into the house. Each time I went insane (like a detective) and found out he was contacting OW and asked him to leave. I realize now that I let him back in far too easy and that I had only required NC with OW. I needed to require commitment to the marriage. The thing that threw me off was that in the SAA book, when the couple gets back togeter after her 2 year affair, neither party is feeling very good about the situation. Their love ends up growing as they start filling eachother's needs. I was also expecting him to feel withdrawl for the OW (he did), but I was way too understanding.

All this being said...I am no poster child for success at this. But I do understand what you're feeling. Take it slow. If his mind changes because you aren't jumping at crumbs, then it wasn't going to work any way. Make him want it. You've suffered through the time and the child birth. Take it really slow.

I'm really shaking like a leaf right now.

I just spoke to my WH on the phone right now. I told him that I need to say something to him.

I started by telling him:

"Look yesterday you said that you wanted to work things out and you know how I feel about that. But before we can really start talking again I need you to do something for me. I need you to commit to the marriage 100%, I need you to move out of her house and I need you to have NC with her. Until then I don't think we should talk on the phone unless it is about the kids."

He said:

"Yes I do want to work it out. I don't want to go the route were going right now. I understand and I know I have to leave. When I leave it's over between me and her. I understand and OK."

Did I do good? Was that what was needed to be said?

Gosh I'm shaking like a leaf! I hope this works!
Please everyone pray for my marriage!!

Thanks everyone for your support and advice!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

STBXWife, As others have said, Wow! Sounds like you're handling it well. I agree with dueinjan as my experience was quite similar, though complicated with drugs, alcohol, and verbal abuse. Also, in my case, I believe now that my H's many attempts at reconciliation were based solely on the fact that I controlled the money and our business after he left so was probably never as hopeful as your situation. I'll be praying for you and your marriage!

This is going to be tough. YOur body is going to crumble at times, and shake.

Boundaries are needed. One, no contact with the other woman. No talking, unless it is about child support and issues pertaining to separation. No talk about emotions between the two of you.

There will be the false show from your husband. Many of us experienced the falseness, and were burned. I was burned, my WH used me, I feel. He would not committ to the marriage 100%. I failed, and should of kicked him out at that time. He took my money, and used me for sex. He tells others here that it was all he could do. The best he could of done was move out.

Hon, there are going to be many boundaries you are going to have to set. Many stages are going to happen. Right now, you are in disbelief. Right now you see a lightbulb going off that looks good. There will be setbacks, and it is going to be hard.

I would not engage in sex. I would not engage in doing things together. Right now, just like Plan B. Do what you have to. And let him figure things out. Also, counseling would be helpful. A third person makes life decisions easier, and helps you set boundaries. Be prepared, you are going to feel pain. All of us experienced it, and many of us experienced divorce. Cause our spouses were not committed. Let him show himself, with counseling, talking about emotions. And then let him pursue you.

Good luck. IT is good to see a Wayward spouse see what they are missing. Goodluck, and I hope things turn out okay. Hon, you are a wonderful person.

I think you did great! You told him what he needed to do and you didn't compromise yourself.

But here is the greatest thing that you did-- (in my opinion)-- you are letting him take the action himself and are not being disturbed by the fact that he has not immediately dislodged himself from OW. He has to take this action himself. You cannot drive the truck to pick up his stuff, call the OW to say "it's over", schedule the counseling session, or anyother similar behavior. IT HAS TO BE HIS DECISION AND HE CANNOT FEEL LIKE YOU MADE HIM DO THIS. You already know all of this. I'm typing it for my own benefit becasue this is where I really messed up.

The only thing you can control is you, your time, who you choose to spend it with, who you choose to be married to, and your children. It sounds like you are holding firm and that you know this too.

Keep up the Plan B until you can see his changes.

If I was in your position, I'd be wanting everything to happen all at once (I was and I did). Pace yourself. You're doing great. Keep the legal aspects in the works and remain steady. Good luck and kiss the baby for me.

Oh, I forgot to ask you. If he moves out of OW's house will he be living with you? Do you live alone with your children or are you with your parents? This is all so tricky. The idea of moving from one woman's house to another is kind of crazy (especially hard to go from Plan B to living together again). It's also very tough to not become a detective and if he goes through withdrawl it's tough for you to be there. Just curious.

You've come so far. <tosses in my 2 cents>
- The divorce is a consequence of the affair.
- He knows you too well.
- You know him too well.
- He knows how you react when pushed now.
- Having done this, he'll know how to do it more easily and without getting caught next time <-- One of the prime reasons I went through with and am sticking to dv and as little contact as possible.

The real question, in my mind, isn't what to do about what he said, but DO YOU WANT HIM BACK? And, not just now... not just as you sit here thinking about it and imagining how WONDERFUL it would be... you're both coming back to the dirtly slate of a relationship pushed to the brink. Look at how emotional you are. <sends good vibes your way>

My two cents is that you let him prove it to you in every way possible, go through with the dv, and AFTER you get the decree, consider letting some time pass, and then start dating him again. Emotionally give yourself some time to let things simmer down and to whatever extent possible let time and his actions grant you both some level of a "clean" slate. Bury the last relationship and marriage.

When you're first going into marriage, it's all about love and that huge naive romantic "rush". You going back into this RIGHT NOW AT THIS TIME... is about risk. Instead of what now... I'd suggest that you ask yourself, "Can I risk the heartache I have already gone through again?" This is where you draw your line in the sand.

Hi guys!!

Well I'm being very patient about things. As far as I know he hasn't moved out of the OW home. He is a cake eater. I'm glad that I told him that we shouldn't talk unless he was committed 100% to the marriage and until he leaves the OW.

Prior to me telling him this he called me several times on that day and the next.

But you know, he has this crazy idea that I'm seeing someone!! I really don't know why but I've told him that I'm not. (was this the right thing to say?)

But I truely believe that he is realizing what he's losing. When we were in the courtroom he was telling me that he would see the OW neices and nephews running around the house and he would think to himself "what am I doing here?, I should be watching my kids run around the house."

He also told me that he's been fighting alot with the OW. He feels like the relationship is going no where. According to what he told me, he's told her that he doesn't think that their relationship will work. And she says that they can try to make it work. (who's begging and pleading now!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) And she told him that if he leaves the house it's over between them.

Well this all came from his mouth, whether it's true or not, who knows.

I will proceed with the D UNLESS he proves to me that he wants to work it out by actually doing something about it and not just talking about it.

Dueinjan - If he does leave the OW's home he'll be moving back to his parents house. I'm living with my parents ( <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ).

I know what you mean about the withdrawal thing. It's gonna be hard for me to know whether or not he still having contact with the OW if were're not living together. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Anyone know how to handle something like this?

Pleeeeease. Do not give in to cake man. He is eating a double layer cake right now imho.

And don't tell him you're not seeing anybody. Make him wonder. Remember he's not showing caring, he's still self centered if he's living with OW after his promises. Dr. Phil says to watch actions and not words. Do that. watch his actions and see if they follow what he says. No action equals nothing. Empty promises are just words.

And his questioning if you're seeing anybody is probably like my xH used to do. Was convinced I was cheating like he was b/c he wanted to feel better. IF he thought I was doing the same bad thing he was, then it's all justified to the foggy people ok? Not a protestation of love like you WANT TO HEAR.

Tell him that he has 2 weeks to move out of OW house. Tell him that you are moving on with your life and sick of the games. That he will find out what it feels like if he doesn't...To know how you felt. Sounds harsh, but it works.

You need a LMBT approach here. And I also recommend doing things flip from what he expects from you. IF you are home at a certain time, be gone. If you immediately answer the phone, let it ring more or don't answer period. Throw him off. Let him assume the worst. Make him work for it for a change.

And my xH denied having contact with OW for almost 5 months while we lived together in new dream home. He lied and lied and then basically had a meltdown after I had yet another d day on the 3 of july.

Don't get sucked into their game and don'
t be involved in a love triangle. If he talks about OW, say that's your life. I don't want it in mine or in the kids. IF you feel bad about seeing OW's family and kids running around, then you should DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT INSTEAD OF FILLING MY EARS FULL OF HOT AIR.

You're mistaking love and caring and guilt for self centeredness. They are masters of it, the WS. Stay strong and contact my bud Orchid. She and hubby made it through after a long ordeal with a horrible OW that was more than toxic. Now mind you I am not totally blaming the OW/OM, because it takes 2 to tango, but this one pulled out all the stops to prevent their "breakup".

OW/OM ironically feel betrayal at the WS seeing spouse or contemplating breakup. Wierd.

Don't play the game like I did. Get smart and play harder and smarter. Get outta the game and play tough only with H.

STBXWife,

Remember a couple of weeks ago you asked to have your name added to the "Restoration of Marriages" prayer list? Did you see anything that might have come of those prayers?

All I would recommend is that you don't pplay games with your H. If you do, you will risk what hope you have. Your integrity is of utmost importance. Even though you were the one betrayed, your H will have to feel safe coming back home. So keep the boundries you set, stay honest with you and him. Granted, him thinking you are seeing someone may be off base (fog babble), but don't do anything that will make him think you are.

Isn't the idea that both of you to come to the point that you feel safe with each other again so your relationship can recover?

Just my $.02.

Bless you.

S&C

I am not saying anything that Dobson doesn't suggest in LMBT. I am not saying that you should pretend you're seeing anybody and that's all wrong.

Being a doormat for somebody who's foggy isn't the way to go. Dobson says in the book to make what's white seem black and what's black seem white and basically turn things around for them. Dr. Phil says that if you keep doing the same thing over and over again can you possibly believe the outcome will be any different?

I am not saying to play games. I am not.

What I have said is to not listen to the crapola the OW and him are doing. That's their business. Get out of their triangle and let them end this thing. But be firm. LEt him know if he wants to come back, he has to prove his intent. Actions are what shows period. If you're gonna talk the talk then you'd better walk the walk.

What I've seen firsthand is the marriages that succeed, the BS has to be brave and stand up for what is right and for what they are willing to take and set boundaries and limits or the WS just keeps rolling over them. And sometimes it does work out, other times not.

When a WS makes the decision to become a WS, then odds begin stacking against a marriage period. When they cross over that line, issues change and so does basically everything in the marriage.

Your WH needs to know you will be 100% supportive and loving if he comes home, but he has to show 100% committment and leave OW and give only to marriage. If you agree to less, then you have a serious waffler. There was a woman in my divorce recovery group who was married to a waffling cheater. One month things were good. Next month, he was back with her, and yada yada yada.

She lost 20 lbs over 6 mos. Had extreme difficulty eating and sleeping. His games were hers becausse she allowed them to be. When she got strong and decided that this is no way to live that a mom needs to be ther 100% for kids then she did a turn around. Her WH came back only when she cut off contact and stayed firm that she was either going to be married or divorced and no grey areas.

And their affair will die a natural death. They're already arguing with each other. Let them continue. Just have that peace inside. I say to contact Orchid because she made the best of this. She is a MB success and her H is great! They are doing a good job and I hope there can be others who are incredible successes here.

I wish my marriage were one. But alas, we cannot force anybody to do anything. God gave us free will. Some use that free will to do incredibly stupid and selfish things to the people they took vows to honor, love and cherish.