Thanks, LMX,

I value your advice. I will continue my prayers for Kim, and tell her that I am praying for her (as I have been doing)

You are definitely in my prayers. I am off to bed now, but I will keep you and everyone else posted.

Gregg

Greg, here are two books I would recommend for you. Both are very good. Two things about your situation are very good... one, you are separated (not divorced) and the other, it was only a couple months ago. Also, your wife is still willing to see you/talk to you. Oh, and there was no adultery.

Well, if you are able, I would encourage you to get these books. Both are very pro-reconciliation, Biblical, and also practical.

"How to Win Your Wife Back Before It Is Too Late" by Gary Smalley: http://cave3.r5i.com/cgi-bin/catalogmgr/198081026136018684/browse/item/60314/28/0/0

"How to Save Your Marriage Alone" by Ed Wheat: http://www.crosslifebooks.com/bookpages/HowToSave.htm

Praying for you and Kim.

"Ah, Sovereign Lord, you have made the heavens and the earth by your great power and outstretched arm. Nothing is too hard for you..." Jer. 32:17

"I am confident of this: I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord; be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord." Psalm 27:13-14

"Pray continually; give thanks in all circumstances, for this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus." 1 Thess. 5:17-18

Thanks LMX,

I just ordered them both (along with all my other Restore M reading stuff. I should quit my job so I can have time to read all of this. Just kidding. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )

Thanks again. I'll be praying for you, and I will be praying for an opportunity to pray with my wife, maybe even on a regular basis. That would be a wonderful miracle to have our Lord provide. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Gregg

Hello Everyone,

I am feeling a bit discouraged by my situation lately. I have been constantly building my wife up every time that I see her by telling her how nice she looks, how good of job she did at something and how I would like to be there for her and do everything I can to provide support, help her out etc. I am getting discouraged, because I never feel that this is ever returned at all by her. I wish she would complement me, tell me that she cares, and ask me what she can do for me, that I look nice, that she is proud of me, etc.

For example, she spent until late at the church with her visiting brother in law helping out the pastor doing his PowerPoint sermon slide show for today's sermon. After hearing from her just after they had finished about 8 pm last night, I offered for them to come over here and have dinner, since I had just made dinner for my son and myself and I had made extra. She took me up on my invitation, and joined us for dinner then decided to leave, because they were really tired from all the work and frustration that went into getting this prepared for today's sermon. She thanked me of course. I responded by saying that I just wanted to make sure that they got something to eat, because it was already getting so late for her to start making dinner or go somewhere for dinner. Also, she has just gotten a new cat (a stray from the church), and had no cat food or litter box for the cat, but it was getting late. I offered to let her have my litter box (since my cat is now used to my new place and can go outside), as well as a fair amount of cat food, etc.

Also, after church, we went out to brunch (all 4 of us), and we decided to split the bill (my wife, Kim and myself), and I said, I felt bad, because I should be paying and taking care of her. (She sweetly said, "Well, when you get a job where you can afford to do that, then I'll let you.") I also, told her today, how nice and beautiful she looked, and told her I would help her with her computer problems and around the house. I said, "I'd like to do any thing I can to help you, but I didn't know how much you wanted from me is all. She said, I know. I'll let you know." I also, kept touching her on the shoulder, etc. I've told her before a couple of times or so with tears in my eyes that, "I just want to make sure that you are ok."

I just don't know what to make of all this, because I have been turning it over to the Lord in prayer, been praying for her and our marriage all of the time, including praying that she would turn this over to God, and ask for his help in restoring our marriage if it be His will, etc.

It is so hard, because, I just don't get any thing back to show that she cares about me at all. Yes she spends time with me, and we see each other a couple of times a week. Also in church today, some one came up and said she heard that we were back together and working on our marriage. I didn't know what to say, and Kim said, well we are friends, but that is about where we are at. End of discussion. I was caught off-guard and didn't know what to say.

Maybe I should go dark and see if she calls me, and stop all initiation of any physical contact, unless she initiates it, and just concentrate on praying to the Lord in this area. She never refuses my physical touches (no kisses or anything like that), but never seems like she could care one way or the other if I touch her.) It just had seemed like things were going so well the past couple of weekends, so I thought she would maybe show some signs of responding to me in a caring way.

I could use some advice.

Thanks,

Gregg

Hi Greg,

Before I write, I said a prayer for you. Continue to build her up... always with sincerity. I am glad you got those books. That little one is soooooo good and he really talks about how you have to pursue your wife, because of your role as the man. In that book, he says this: "You have to convince her that you love her, that she is valuable and precious beyond any other woman in your sight, that you need her and do not want to live without her."

He talked about how Jesus left heaven and came to earth to pursue us. His love was not passive in this way. It was an active, pursuing love.

Ed Wheat, in that book says, "I say to any husband who is trying to restore his marriage that the only thing that will reach his estranged wife is a convincing, consistent demonstration that he really wants HER. He is not trying to win her back because it is the right thing to do, or because it is best for the children, or because God is directing him this way. He needs to convince her that he wants her for himself. He has realized that the qualities she has are the ones he needs the most; he feels now that he is able to become the husband he ought to be; and he is eager for every opportunity to show her that he can and he will love her."

Greg, do not be downcast by what your eyes see. The Lord is working. Pray, seek Him, study His Word. Be in a body of Believers (church) so that they can also support you with prayer and so that you are worshipping the Lord with the Body. Faith is believing what we cannot/do not see. You must walk by faith, not by sight. Love her because you love her and because it is right, not because she does or does not return it.

Probably one of the most amazing things I have learned from all this is what love is all about. Love does not seek its own. It loves even when unreturned or rejected. It loves because God is love and love is good, and loves always endures and always hopes and always believes... even when everything looks hopeless.

Your wife has walls up I'm sure, and only your patient love, kindness, and longsuffering will break (or scale!) those walls. Love her as you have been not because you want it returned, but simply because you love her as her husband. Someday, it will be returned. We reap what we sow!! You reap love and goodness and kindness... you are going to sow it! But think of the seasons and sowing and reaping. The farmer does not stop sowing when he sees the clouds or the thunder or the long, long summer with no sight in end. He knows that if he perseveres and keeps following the rules (watering, weeding, etc), he will reap a harvest when the time is right!

I know it hurts to not have love returned. I truly do. Let the Lord comfort you. Ask Him to comfort you and to be near you. It says that he is close to the brokenhearted. Think of when He was on the cross, hated and despised, all because He loved. There are times in our life where we will be alone and when our hearts will hurt, desperately. You are in this time because your wife is not returning your love. Cling to the Lord and persevere. And be in Church so that you can be uplifted by other Believers who can be there for you. Humble yourself and ask them for prayer and help.

Greg, don't give in to self-pity. I say this as a sister who constantly gives in to self-pity!! Believe me... it is probably my greatest battle to overcome! But I think I see it in your words. Thank the Lord for what you do have... give Him thanks because your wife is present, you are not divorced, and she is willing to see you and talk to you. I do not say this in any way other than to help you to see that you do have much to be thankful for because in my situation my husband and I live across the country from each other, he is engaged, he wants no contact with me, and he does not love me... and we are divorced! How hopeless is that!? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Sometimes, when we are down, we can't see all that we should be thankful for and we feel sorry about our situation and feel sorry for ourselfs instead of thanking the Lord and praising Him for what He is doing and will do.

I can't tell you what to do as far as whether to not call, etc. Maybe that might be wise. I am not sure and don't want to tell you wrong. I think those two books will help you alot since they are written by men, and also you need to pray about it.

I'm not sure what to tell you as far as specific advice like that.

I will be praying for you Greg. I really do see much hope for your marriage. Maybe because I am a woman and I can see that your wife is not completely hardened against you. But it is going to take alot of work on your part.. both in prayer on your knees, time in the Word, and actively pursuing her... in the face of rejection. The Lord is going to teach you so much and build you up so much from all of this.

God bless you and I will be praying.

Thanks, LoveMyEx,

I think after having a long talk to a Christian brother that spends a lot of time with the Lord, I will pray for a time to talk to her about turning the idea of the restoration of our marriage over to God. I will pray that in this time that God leads me to tell her that since I, as the head of the spouse (as God's Word tells us) feel that I should lead us (Kim and me) in this area now. I will pray for me to be able to again ask her forgiveness for how I have let her down in being critical, and not being a good leader (as God's Word tells husbands to do) in many areas (of protection, the financial leader, and other areas including the spiritual leader). I will pray for our Lord to guide me in telling her that we need to work this out in a biblical way, especially if she can forgive me for all the ways that I have let her down. I will pray that if she could truly forgive like Jesus did, then she would pray to ask Jesus to truly forgive AND forget. (She has told me before that she forgave me for all of the ways that I let her down when I came before her and told her that God had convicted me and asked me to ask for her forgiveness.) I will pray for a way to tell her that I feel that we need to seek out our Pastor for guidance and counseling to bring us back together. I will pray for a way to tell her that I have really changed and have been saved during this time and that the can not see how I have been in the Word and trying to walk with Jesus if we can't be together. I will pray to tell her that with God, all things are possible, and I will pray for guidance in telling her that we have never sought out biblical counseling, only secular counseling, and most recently that never focused on saving our marriage.

Please pray for me this week as I pray for the opportunity to do this and for our Mighty Saviour to fill my heart with the right words to say.

LoveMyEx, I have been praying for you as well.

Thank you,

Gregg

<small>[ August 26, 2003, 12:42 AM: Message edited by: GreggC ]</small>

My mom's birthday is this weekend and our family is celebrating together at my parents house a short drive away. I have told my W that she is included in this if she wants to, and I would like her to come if she wants, She has always been a part of this. She said, "I guess I'll have to let you know."

I hadn't seen or heard from her in a few days, and she hadn't shown up for our music rehearsal and prayer group on Wednesday that she has usually been a part of. I had emailed her at work on Monday afternoon to invite her and see if she wanted to get together one evening this week (like we had agreed--W's idea), but had still not heard back from her. I got her a little book at the Christian bookstore about how much God loved her. Anyway I decided to stop by on the way home Wednesday evening after our music practice to make sure she was ok.

When I got there she was watching tv and was clearly home sick. I told her I did not mean to startle her but was worried about her and wanted to also give her this present. It made her very happy that I would remember her and check up on her to see if she was ok. She thanked me for checking up on her, and I said, "You're welcome. Of course, you're my wife." While I was there she said she was thinking of giving up our dogs, because they have been barking a lot resulting in a warning from one of the neighbors, because she said she just didn't have the time that the dogs needed.

I have been reaching out to our Lord, to pray for an opportunity to for us to join together in prayer, so that I could guide us in prayer asking the Lord to work on our marriage, and for me to do a better job of being the family leader (as the husband) I had been praying that I would have an opportunity maybe yesterday to be able to pray together and to also tell her that I felt that we need to work together with the Lord on this and to talk together with our pastor about this. Since she was sick yesterday, I did not bring this up with her.

Anyway, I was asking the Lord today for this opportunity, maybe after church on Sunday. I also asked Him if I should ask her if maybe we could try with no pressure from me, having me maybe spend one or two nights at the house together, not asking her for anything (including time with her, or even any physical affection.) I feel like it is time to bring this up. I also know how much those dogs mean to her (and my son as well.) I was thinking of telling her, that I knew how much she loves these dogs, and I would be able to spend the time taking care of them. It is clear that she is really letting the house and yard go. I even noticed all kinds of dirty dishes, etc from even a week ago or so. I feel that God wants me to take care of my family right now.

What does anyone else think about this?

Thanks, Gregg

<small>[ August 28, 2003, 08:38 PM: Message edited by: GreggC ]</small>

Greg, I have not been in here lately. HOw are things going??

Hi LoveMyEx,

I've been having a hard time lately. My wife has been sick. Still sick, she was off work from Tuesday afternoon and finally returned on either Monday or Tuesday of this week. I called her on Thurdsay and left message just asking if she was ok, and to let me know how she was doing or if I could do anything for her. I did not hear back from her until Saturday evening (I was worried about her.)

She didn't go to church on Sunday, said she was still too sick. (she has a cold and sinus infection.) Then she didn't go to Wednesday church activities (yesterday).

It's just been hard her not calling me at all, and not seeing her at all, especially since she had said that she wanted us to get together once a week to hang out or take care of whatever business we needed to talk about. There has been no mention of getting together anymore for the past two weeks.

I have been asking the Lord all the time to grant me an opportunity for us to pray together, especially for our marriage. You know to pray together for God's will in our marriage, and let Him show us the way. Anyway, I decided to go by right after church activities (about 8:30), and drop off some mail that I had for her. She showed me how she was happy that the sunflowers that I planted were thriving and doing so well, and we looked at them together. (I caught her as she was just about to go to bed.)

As I was getting ready to leave I asked if it would be ok for us to pray together. She asked about what? I said, just about certain people and to pray to God about our marriage. She said ok. I proceeded to tell God how sorry I was for all my shortcomings in our marriage: crushing her spirit, not being a good financial leader, not being a god family leader in general, and I was sorry for not knowing how to do this before. I prayed for her mom and brother (they had a falling our a few weeks ago). Anyway, I thanked her and asked if maybe we could pray together, maybe on a regular basis. I said that we never did much praying together, and that's probably where we went wrong. Maybe we could take a biblical approach to our marriage, perhaps even talk to our pastor. She said let me think about it and get back to you.

Anyway, sorry to be so long-winded, but that's the latest. I thought she would be more receptive to prayer (didn't think it would be a tough decision to make.) Also, it doesn't seem to make that much of a difference to her when I am kind to her, tell her I am praying for her at work, her mom, to get well, and telling her I'd like to make things easier for her, if there was anything I could get her at the store, etc. I don't think this has been overwhelming, but maybe. I haven't told her all of these things at once.

Anyway, what's going through her head do you think. I just want to show her how speial she is, and see her happy. I also am concerned that she isn't reaching out to God anymore. She has never told me that she even prays at all.

Gregg

Hi Gregg,

I'm sorry you've been having a hard time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I don't know how anyone gets through this type of thing without having some very painful emotions.

Your wife might be sick as a result of all of this. I remember you said how she wasn't taking care of the house and the dogs and now she is sick. Even though she is the one wanting to separate (divorce), well, God did not intend it that way. When we do things like this, well, it's plain ol' hard on our emotions and even our bodies! Stress takes its toll. I have read that divorce is right below death of a spouse (the highest stressor) and often higher because of all the anger/bitterness/etc. involved.

I also think your wife might be depressed. She probably won't tell you but I think she might be. You are her HUSBAND. You two were not created to be apart like this. Even though she has "wanted" it, it is probably taking a toll on her.

I can't remember, but why are you separated? Did she isist on it? I'm asking because I've read that very rarely does separation do good but most often leads to divorce. My husband and I separated, and sure enough... But at that time, I thought it'd help us. We both did. But it didn't. I can't remember all the circumstances behind your separation (sorry).

I think you did a good thing by calling her but then waiting for her to return your call even though it took awhile. I think the best thing you can do right now is pray for her and cling to the Lord and "let go" of her. I don't mean to stop loving her and by all means, keep letting her see you change! It's hard. I think you should pursue her... but yet not too much to where she feels pressured. I don't know for sure. I wish I knew you both in person. I think that'd help. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

That was a good idea to go by to give her her mail. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> And I think that being vulnerable in your praying was good too. Even though she is not visably responding, I do think she is noticing these things. Do not forget... you are her HUSBAND. God has created a one-flesh bond between the two of you that is powerful. Plus, you are loving her. God says "Husbands, love your wives." When you obey Him, He will hear your prayers. Keep loving her... treat her with gentleness, respect, and just be as consistent as possible... not pressuring her, but not backing off in fear either.

Do what is right in the sight of God.

I have had a hard time lately too. My husband has much bitterness and hatred towards me. He also got engaged. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Please, please pray that they won't get married. I am so heartbroken over it and not even knowing how to pray anymore, but I still keep praying for reconciliation.

Anyways, I made a list tonight. I asked myself, how do I respond to him, how do I handle this, what is RIGHT? And I wrote these things are right: obeying God, loving and forgiving, having faith, praying, doing good to your enemies, blessing those who persecute you, giving even more to the one who demands from you (whew, that's hard!). I thought of the verse about overcoming evil with GOOD. Other godly "virtues": faithfulness, kindness, forebearance, "love overlooks a multitude of sins," "love bears ALL things," and on and on.

No matter how it looks or what your wife acts like, do what is right. And remember that Jesus is your example. He always did right, but he never pushed or manipulated or pressured. So, it's hard. It's hard to love yet to allow the other to not love us back.

There is a wonderfu, wonderful book you should read. It is called "A Promise Kept" by a man named Robertson McQuilkin. He was the President of a Christian college, Columbia, for many years and I guess he was very highly respected in Christian circles. Well, his wife got Alzheimers... badly... and she was not that old. He ended up quitting his job and being her full-time caretaker. Obviously, she did not return it as a fully-functioning spouse. She was mentally ill with Alzheimers (like Ronald Reagan). People would even ask why he did it, why he didn't put her in a home, etc. And he talks about his vows and how he is her husband and love, etc. It is such a touching, amazing story of committed love. I heard of it before but was reading through it at the bookstore today. i found it online 'cause I'm going to order it (the bookstore copy was not in great shape).

Oh, one thing he shares that just broke my heart and I wanted to just cry right there, was how he'd leave for work and she'd go after him. I guess she was just distraught without him. She would walk all the way after him to where he worked (this was part of what led him to finally quit his job). Sometimes, when he'd help her undress at night, he'd find that her feet were bloodied. Oh... that just chokes me up. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I think you are doing the right thing by "taking the lead"... initiating prayer, etc. Be patient with her and don't stop praying! Love her even if she is not doing the right things. The father of the prodigal son never stopped loving him even though he was rebellious and turned his back on his home and father. Jesus never stops loving us even though we do wrong. Stand in the gap for her, as they say.

I'm not sure what's going through her head but I am sure she is reflecting on it all. She might be feeling horrible but not sure what to do. She might be feeling unworthy of you. She might be hating herself. I'm not sure. I do think she might be depressed though. She is probably also guarding her heart, not wanting to believe or trust you. It might take time. How much, who knows. It probably depends alot on the extent of whatever hurt is between you.

Stay in the Word and keep remembering that God hates divorce, that He does restore, that He wants both you and your wife to become more like Him through this. That He wants you to obey in all things. That is His will for you. I pray that He brings new life to your marriage in ways that you cannot even imagine.

Well, here is a link to that book. Hang in there!! http://www.health-books-web.com/A_Promise_Kept_0842350993.html

Thanks,LMX,

I'll respond more later,but I will be praying for you,especially this weekend.

God Bless you,

Gregg

Hi again LoveMyEx:

Yes she probably is depressed. She has been on antidepressants for a while now, even a while before we separated. She told me that she was having a hard time a few weeks ago with feeling unappreciated at work, her brother and her mom having kind of a falling out as well as she and her mother having a kind of falling out as well as a result of what transpired between her brother and her mother.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I can't remember, but why are you separated? Did she isist on it? I'm asking because I've read that very rarely does separation do good but most often leads to divorce. My husband and I separated, and sure enough... But at that time, I thought it'd help us. We both did. But it didn't. I can't remember all the circumstances behind your separation (sorry).
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, she was the one who wanted a divorce. She had said about mid June that she was really unhappy and felt that nothing ever seems to work to make things any better between us, and that she didn't feel that anything she ever did was ever right or enough for me. She said that she was too tired of trying and that she didn't intend to work on our marriage anymore. I said, "Do you think I should move out?" She said, "Yes." I said, "If that would make you happy I will." That's what led to the decision. I think that I did the wrong thing offereing to move out, and I should have immediately said that we should pray for our marriage and leave it up to the Lord. I should have said that we needed to talk to our pastor about how to do this. But, I think that this was before I found the Lord. I wonder if that would have made a difference at the time.

Thanks for your concerns.

Do you think I should stop calling her at all, or call once a week, or have an excuse to drop by, or should I even talk to her about how often I should call her?

I was even thinking that since she was having a problem taking care of the dogs, maybe I could offer to take care of the for a while. It would be difficult, but I probably could, I live in a duplex. It is not real big, but big enough to have a small fenced yard in the back. She said that she was probably going to give the dogs away, because she did not have the time to care for them, and also just got cited for the dogs barking too much. I offered to take care of them, and take care of anything around the house and yard, including the dogs. She just said, "I have to stop relying on others. I need to start getting used to doing things myself."

Anyway, any advice on this? I just thought today, what about if I offered to let her live here and I lived in our house. Kind of a radical thought, but why not? Also, should I aks her to pray together again, or not say anything about this unless she says that she wants to. Last Wednesday when we prayed (when I asked her on the spot if we could pray together right then), I asked her if we could pray together on a regular basis, but she said she would have to get back to me. Do I bring this up again?

(By the way, I do pray to God all the time to ask him about these things, and to let me knwo what His will is for me to do. About these things.)

Thanks. Sorry for so much information and questions. Thanks for caring. It is also nice to get a woman's perspective.

Also, I have been praying for you, will continue to do so. I'm sure the Lord is with you too. I have also been praying that the Lord finds some way for your husband to reach out to Him. (I hope that is ok.)

In Jesus's name,

Gregg

Hi Greg,

Thank you for praying! Yes, please, please pray for my husband. Pray for a way for me to get through to his heart and pray that the Lord would intervene and keep him from remarrying.

I really believe that your wife needs you to pursue her. But let me ask to make sure? Is she at all hostile/hard towards you? I mean, does she says things like "leave me alone?" or speak real adamantly like that? Maybe she really needs to see that you really do love her.

Have you ever asked her about moving back in to the house? If not, I think you should. I really do! Here's why... I have read stuff about how detrimental separation is and how most often, it goes to divorce. You cannot work on problems as well when separated and also, it gives almost a false sense of peace because the conflict (the spouse) is out of the house. I thought separating from my husband was the right thing. It wasn't.

I sooooooo wish I knew then all the things I knew now. So many things I would have done so differently!

I think maybe your wife is overall unhappy. I don't know since I don't know her, but I wonder if she has looked to you to meet her needs... to make her happy. It sounds like... well, I get the impression of her life being depressing to her.. her family, job, marriage, even the dogs. I think there's alot going on and I think your prayers are so needed!

I read Genesis this week. And how Hagar had Ishmael but since Ishmael was not the promised son (Isaac), he was sorta just there and not blessed. Well, Abraham prayed for him and asked God to bless Ishmael, and God did... simply because Abraham asked! It said "God remembered Abraham." He remembered his request.

You need to keep praying for your wife. Don't be in fear either. I can't emphesize enough to do what is right even if she doesn't respond, etc. And I say this because I did many things out of fear vs. what was right. For instance, my husband said, "Leave" so I left but really he wanted me to stay but said "leave" in his anger and when I did leave, he saw it as me not really loving him. Lots of things like that.

I did things out of fear alot... fearing upsetting him or making things worse. And I do think we need to use discrenement and be wise, but if we are obeying God's Word and doing things as God Word says, then we will be doing right and can't go wrong.

I still beleive that it is your "job" to pursue her. To almost "prove" to her that you truly love her... that you are faithful to her and that no matter how she is treating you, you still love her. I guess you have to be discerning as to how to pursue.. how much, etc. since you want to be sensitive to where she is at.

Do you think she just said "yes" to you moving out simply because you asked? I mean, is it possible she didn't really want you to but agreed to it. I know there were things like that where I'd say something and my husband would say, "Yah, I guess so." Or even me taking advice of others simply 'cause I thought I should, but looking back, now wish I hadn't!

Well,I have to go but I do thank you for your prayers. I truly truly thank you. Please pray that my husband's heart would be softened towards me. I willl also pray that for your wifes' heart to be softened towards you.

I will try to write some more tomorrow.

How long have you and your wife been married?

God bless!!

p.s. Yes, I'd ask her every time if she'd like to pray. IN FACT, I don't think it'd be at all wrong or detrimental of you to just say, "I'd like to pray for you if you wouldn't mind" and then grab her hand and just start praying. or pray before you go somewhere or at meals especially. Have you taken the lead like that before? She might be very receptive to it. Of course, you know your wife better than I do, but I see it as a good thing. IF she responds real harshly, etc.. than don't push it or make her feel bad. Just say, "Okay, I understand." Don't act upset or be sad or anything else if she says she doesn't want to pray.

Have you told her that you are wanting to save your marriage and that you don't want divorce?

I'm sorry for my poor memory! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thanks for responding. I'm assuming that you changed your user name from LoveMyEx, to DeborahAnn????

You're welcome for prayers!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I really believe that your wife needs you to pursue her. But let me ask to make sure? Is she at all hostile/hard towards you? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, I have never noticed any sort of anger or hostility since we separated. She was even really kind in helping me move,and even telling me a couple of times that she missed me. (She is the kind of person that doesn't tell people if something is bothering her until it ends up bothering her a lot.)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Have you ever asked her about moving back in to the house? If not, I think you should.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No I have not. I have thought that asking her this might push her away and/or pressure her more.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I think maybe your wife is overall unhappy. I don't know since I don't know her, but I wonder if she has looked to you to meet her needs... to make her happy. It sounds like... well, I get the impression of her life being depressing to her.. her family, job, marriage, even the dogs. I think there's alot going on and I think your prayers are so needed! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">To tell you the truth, I think that much of the time, she has kind of expected that I would know how to meet her needs. Most importantly however was that I did not meet her need to time alone and not pressuring her to do things. She was really specific about that, and I failed miserably in this area. Things like this, apparently have depleted my love bank balance with her, and she seems to have withdrawn from me emotionally. It's hard to tell, but we have been separated for 2 months and roughly half of this time she has been sick in some form or another. Every time I ask to meet needs like, showing concern for what is troubling her, helping with whatever needs to be done around the house, offering to take care of the dogs, etc, is met with resistance. She even told me last time that she needs to learn to start doing things on her own.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you think she just said "yes" to you moving out simply because you asked? I mean, is it possible she didn't really want you to but agreed to it. I know there were things like that where I'd say something and my husband would say, "Yah, I guess so." Or even me taking advice of others simply 'cause I thought I should, but looking back, now wish I hadn't! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In our case, she told me one day that she was really unhappy. I then said, do you think I should move out. She said yes, and I agreed, because I thought that was a token of showing my love for her. But you think that this might show her the opposite?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I did things out of fear alot... fearing upsetting him or making things worse. And I do think we need to use discrenement and be wise, but if we are obeying God's Word and doing things as God Word says, then we will be doing right and can't go wrong. I still beleive that it is your "job" to pursue her. To almost "prove" to her that you truly love her... that you are faithful to her and that no matter how she is treating you, you still love her. I guess you have to be discerning as to how to pursue.. how much, etc. since you want to be sensitive to where she is at.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I definitely have not asked her things out of fear, I guess. I did however tell her that I would really like to do things differently should she change her mind on the day that I moved out. Also, she said that she would let me know if she wanted to pray with me after I asked her about this last Wednesday. Also, I told her to let me know if she ever felt like getting together again. She said,ok. Finally, I was a little hurt, when I was walking through the partking lot and she honked at me and waved as she was sitting inthe parking lot pulling out of her parking space. I was hurt that she simply just waved, but didn't stop to talk to me at all, but then drove off on her way. Finally, she was not in church as well yesterday, so I dropped by right afterwards and asked if she wanted to go to the church potluck. She said she was stillnot feeling that goood, andwas not upto socializing. This confuses me even more if I should step out in faith and talk to her about us, because it seems that there is never a good time (especially with her chrinic sickness.) I keep hoping for an opportune time for things.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> How long have you and your wife been married?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We will be married 6 years as of this Thursday 9-11-97. I'm not even sure how I should acknowledge this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> p.s. Yes, I'd ask her every time if she'd like to pray. IN FACT, I don't think it'd be at all wrong or detrimental of you to just say, "I'd like to pray for you if you wouldn't mind" and then grab her hand and just start praying. or pray before you go somewhere or at meals especially. Have you taken the lead like that before? She might be very receptive to it. Of course, you know your wife better than I do, but I see it as a good thing. IF she responds real harshly, etc.. than don't push it or make her feel bad. Just say, "Okay, I understand." Don't act upset or be sad or anything else if she says she doesn't want to pray.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just the one time when I asked her if we could pray together on the spot, and I prayed for our marriage, and her mom and brother and for her. We don'tseem to go anywhere together to have a change to do that before meals.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Have you told her that you are wanting to save your marriage and that you don't want divorce? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I did tell her that I thought we should pray on a regular basis together, that we should look at this biblically, and that we should talk to our pastor about this and work at this from the perspective of God's will.

Thanks so much for your concerns. I will be frequently praying for your husband and you and to prevent this marriage from taking place.

Gregg

Gregg,

I think the idea of you moving back or at least asking is a very good one. Your W has not prospered since you left. She has been sick, the house is not being cared for, and the dogs either. What kind of a clue do you need? It seems to me you are praying and your prayers are being answered.

Perhaps your W had to go through this before she could see you, but I see here a golden opportunity for you to go home (if she will agree) to help her, make her life better,and sort of get things sorted out.

You said one thing that puzzles me </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I definitely have not asked her things out of fear, I guess. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This comment is what made me post to you. If you are to be the spiritual leader of this family. If you are to be the husband to your W. If you have a strong faith, does this comment make sense to you?

I think it is time for you to conquer you fear and do the right thing. Take care of your W, while she is sick. Take care of your family while it is your family. Be the husband you can be while you are a husband.

Ask her to move back, but be firm in your reasons.

Please pray on this.

God Bless,

JL

Thanks JustLearning ,

I prayed and prayed for the past two days to the Lord asking Him what I should do about bringing up my marriage and to let the Holy Spirit be with me in knowing what to say to say that I feel that the Lord is leading me to talk to my wife about having the chance to lead my family in prayer in knowing what to do and what to work on in our marriage.

I decided today to talk to her about it. I prayed all day and practiced many times in saying what the Lord would have me say. Finally I decided to show up over there just about the time she comes home and to be doing my laundry and fixing dinner when she arrives. So I did that (just got something frozen to put in the oven) and was starting my laundry when she arrived.

We had a fairly good evening, I fixed a couple of things that she needed fixed around the house (really simple easy things), and then we watched tv together and laughed a little, and things were pretty light. I hadn't brought up anything yet, because we were watching a couple of shows that she liked, and wanted to share them with me.

Then at the end of the shows (about 8 pm) she said she needed to get in the shower. I asked if I could talk to her. I talked to her basically in telling her that I had been spending a lot of time with the Lord lately, and thanked her for being the one to bring me to the Lord, and that she had been such a good wife not pushing me to the Lord, just like in the bible, when the wife is to count on the husband to be the spiritual leader. I said that I had let her and God down by not taking the lead, as she was probably expecting me to do.

Then I said that I felt I had let her and God down by moving out, and that I felt that the Lord was telling me it was time to lead my family, that He did not want divorce, and that we should spend time praying for our marriage to know what to do, etc.

Then I said that I would like to take a few minutes and pray for our marriage. She said will it take a long time, because I need to get in the shower. I said just a few minutes. SHe said ok, then I said, how about if I started and she added anything she wanted to add, and if I closed at the end. I prayed for us for a few minutes, then was silent for about ten seconds. Then she quickly said, "amen"

I got my laundry and she gave me a quick hug, then I left.

I felt pretty discouraged, and wondered if maybe she is angry at God, at me, or anything else. I know she was still feeling a bit sick, but she has been sick for about three weeks now, and I am not sure when a good time would be to talk about us. It has only come up twice in the past two months, Once I brought a couple things up, and then she said she would get back to me, then today she did not respond in anyway.

Our 6th wedding anniversary is this Thursday (9-11) and at this point I am not even sure if I should acknowlege it or not.

I could sure use some encouragement, as she seems to be empty and non-responsive to anything I say. Also, she does not even seem to understand that this was really hard to me to get the nerve to talk about this.

Thanks,

Gregg

<small>[ September 09, 2003, 11:13 PM: Message edited by: GreggC ]</small>

How strange!! I have no idea how my name changed!!

Sometimes when I reply, I cannot see your post down below, so I have cut and paste and will write as I go along.

You said she hasn't shown anger or hostility. That is good. I think that is an indication that her heart is not hardened towards you, but she sees this as the "only way." I have always gotten the impression though that she still cares for you, but has just sorta "given up"... in many ways, which shows in her depression. I think I can relate to her some too.

About asking to move in, I do not think it would pressure her if you said it like, "Honey, you know, I understand your hurt and pain that I have caused you, and I am very sorry. I love you and I do not want to divorce you. In fact, I think it was perhaps a mistake for me to move out. I understand though that maybe it is better for you that I am out of the house, but I would like to ask if I could move back in and work on our marriage. If you do not want me to, I understand and will respect you. But if you are willing, I will do all I can to prove to you how much I love you."

Something like that. Not pressuring but expressing to her your desire to move in. I guess you should pray about it, but I know that, well, like I said, I did alot of things with a sort of "okay, I guess this must be what he wants" attitude but really deep down, it wasn't what he wanted. I did things, like I said, out of fear. I think it is right that you would live there because you are her husband still, but only you know your wife and how she might respond. If she is not angry, hateful, and hard towards you... and she says she misses you... well, mabye inside she actually thinks you WANT to not live there. I'm not sure, but pray about it and ask God to give you courage and wisdom to do the right thing, whichever that may be. I don't want to advise you too much because I am not God <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> , but those are my humble thoughts.

You said, "To tell you the truth, I think that much of the time, she has kind of expected that I would know how to meet her needs."

Yes, I think this is very typical of women. I guess that's how in some ways I can relate to your wife. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I think women expect men to always be that "knight in shining armor" who will meet their needs and always want to and always be romantic, etc. Both men and women often have unrealistic expectations. I wonder why she feels she needs to do stuff on her own. I really think there are things inside her that she is battling/struggling with... things that maybe God will use all of this to deal with... I hope and pray! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> God can bring good out of this.

It's hard for me to put my thoughts on it into words, esp. brief ones, but I see myself in her somewhat. I wish I knew what to say. I guess what I can say is that if you can try to always see the best in her, respect her and just try to "read" her... like if you can tell she is annoyed or feeling pressured, then back off. It's so hard I know. I know that I had times like that and it was hard for my husband to know what to do, and it was because of things I was struggling with in my life.. battles that really didn't totally have to do with him. But as spouses, every battle our spouse has affects us. I have since learned, that our vows are "til death" and "in sickness" and "in worse" and I think true love loves when the other person is hard to love or is even rejecting our love. But it definitely takes discernment.

Maybe when you ask to meet her needs, it comes across like you are parenting her? Or maybe she is just pushing you away because she feels guilty or is strugglign with things. I'm not sure. I pray for wisdom for you! You are not yet divorced (and hopefully never will be!) so you can fill that "love bank" again! Maybe she feels embarrassed?? Like not being able to take care of the dogs, etc.? I'm not sure...

Greg, you said, "In our case, she told me one day that she was really unhappy. I then said, do you think I should move out. She said yes, and I agreed, because I thought that was a token of showing my love for her. But you think that this might show her the opposite?"

Well, I'm not positive, but yes, I think it might have shown her the opposite. I know that I moved away because my husband said he wanted me to, but he really didn't. He really wanted me to stay. It's almost like a "test" to see if we truly love them. And I know some people will say that's not right, but I think we do that as humans, esp. when emotions are hurt and we are confused, etc.

Here's what happened with me once. We were separated and I came over one night. I made cookies with the kids and things were good and I stayed the night. We said we weren't going to divorce, but I knew my husband still had anger towards me and things, I thought, were still problmatic. So the next morning, I went to where he was in his office and said something about if I should still go to the place I was staying? I ASSUMED he still wanted to be separated. He didn't though and saw it as me WANTING to be separated. It was not good.

So I think we have to be careful not to assume or do things out of fear or thinking it's what the other person wants. The Bible says not to separate. That alone... well, I know you can't always know how your wife might react, but well, yes, I do think maybe it would have spoken to her if you had at least told her that you did not want to move out. I think every woman wants a man to prove his love for her... to be willing to pursue her and do anything for her. But then, a hurting woman... I'm not sure I guess. But I don't think separating is a token of your love for her. I think that staying and working out problems is more loving. By moving out, she doesn't have to deal with the problems. By staying, in a way, you are taking the lead and also "forcing" her to deal with you. That is more loving I think. It will not do her good to not deal with the problems. Does that make sense? Everyone wants to "run aways" when things are hard, but it's not really loving to allow them to run away. Although it's also not loving to force them to stay either. Like the Father who LET the prodigal son go.

The more I talk, the more I am not sure what to tell you I guess!

Hopefully, God can somehow speak to you through something I am saying. I hope. I don't want to give you unwise advice. I think it's really hard to advise others when we don't know them... I also think it's wrong to give out advise so freely when we don't know the people or what God's will is for them. Everyone has an opinion and we live in a world where everyone wants to express it and thinks it's their "right". But I think it also does alot of damage. I want to be careful in what I tell you.

I am basing most of what I am saying on what you've shared and on being a woman thinking I can somewhat maybe understand some of what she might be thinking or feeling, although not all of course, since we are two different people.

You said, "she was not in church as well yesterday, so I dropped by right afterwards and asked if she wanted to go to the church potluck. She said she was stillnot feeling that goood, andwas not upto socializing."

I think she is really struggling. I think you have to make sure you continue to see how their is a real spiritual battle going on in all of this. Every time you share these things like this, I just think of how she needs your prayers.

You said, "This confuses me even more if I should step out in faith and talk to her about us, because it seems that there is never a good time (especially with her chronic sickness.) I keep hoping for an opportune time for things."

I know it's hard, but try to be patient. Maybe write her a letter? How does she respond to letters? I can't really tell you how or when. You need to be in prayer and ask the Lord to guide you and help you to discern.

I think you should somehow acknowledge your anniversary. You do not have to be "mooshy" if you think you won't respond well to that, but maybe some sort of gift or card without to much sentiment??

Well, Greg, I am going to post this one and then read the other posts. I sure wish I knew better what to tell you. You know, Charlyne and Bob at Rejoice Ministries say how you really can't tell people exactly what to do, etc. because God works differently with everyone. And what might work with her might not work with my husband because people are different, the hurts are different, etc. But I know that I can tell you that if it's Biblical, do it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Like when it says love bears all things. Well, I know I can tell you to bear the pain and frustration, etc. And it says that love always hopes. So I can tell you to continue to hope. Etc.

I know that I have struggled with making my marriage and husband almost an idol... where I am pursuing them more than God, and I think we need to be careful. It's hard because love is strong and the desire to fight for a marriage is good, but I think as we seek God and focus first on Him and somehow surrender this to Him, trusting Him and resting in Him with faith and assurance, He will guide us.

I have been struggling very much lately with alot of sorrow and despair. I know the Lord is using it to do a good work in me and to change things that need to change, but I truly appreciate your prayers! I think I can mostly relate to you because I too, love my husband and want so much for our marriage to be healed and restored.

I will be praying for your wife and you and your marriage. Did you get those books you ordered yet? I hope they will help some.

God bless,


p.s. You still have some really good things "on your side"-- you are not divorced, you are still close distance-wise to each other, and your wife has not completely shut you out with anger or hostility. Keep praying and loving her and trusting the Lord... and also, take action when God leads you to do something!

I read in Exodus how the people were afraid when the Egyptians were coming towards them to capture them. Moses said, "You only have to be still and God will fight for you." Isn't that awesome?! And God wants to fight for us and wants to show everyone how it is HIM who heals marriages, not us! HE is the one who heals, restores, and softens hearts, and in the end, we are to give Him the glory for it. But it's interesting because in the next verse, God tells Moses, "Don't just stand there... raise your staff!" He basically tells Moses, "Okay, you've been praying and you trust me, now do something!" God also expects us to take action. I will pray wisdom for you to know how and when to be still and how and when to take action. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Okay, I just read Learning's post and your other one. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Yes, maybe your prayers are being answered. I do read in your posts a woman who needs you but maybe thinks she doesn't or thinks she isn't supposed to need you. That's where I also think Satan is lying to her... like how she thinks she needs to learn these things alone. But her depression and struggles are revealing that she is not happy.

I think I would agree that this might be a good opportunity for you to go home. Don't pass it by either! I did! My husband wanted me to come back, but I had moved and I looked at it like "I have no money, no job, etc..." and I delayed and finally, he did not believe me and really, the opportunity passed and it came across as if I didn't really love him and I didn't mean what I said.

I think it's esp. important for men to prove their love and words to their wives also.

I had this thought once before and will ask you: do you think you were active or more passive in your marriage? I mean, are any of your wive's frustrations due to you being passive in the marriage? By "doing things in fear," I mean that rather than do the right thing, Biblically, you do what you think she wants. Or you do things afraid of the outcome if you do otherwise. I guess if we do that, we can be passive. I am not sure how you were in your marriage or what it was that bothered here, but I have wondered a couple times about if this was part of it because of some things you've said.

Maybe she really needs you to be active... like in moving home. Maybe God is using all of this to help you become the leader He wants you to be. ??

Okay, I just read the rest about you talking to her! Sorry, I cut and paste and have been reading as I go along.

I am really glad that you had a nice evening, and were able to laugh and relax together. I think everything you said to her was very good... the right things despite her reaction. That shows courage, and also obedience to God. He WILL bless you in that.

Sorry that I didn't read this before my other long post!!

I know it is discouraging. But, trust the Lord!! Once I went to my husband's with food. I would never have thought of that myself, because I assumed he didn't want to see me, etc. Well, a friend suggested I take him dinner... so with a trembling heart I did. He barely looked at me, seemed very indifferent to me, and it hurt, to say the least. But I remember how later, he confessed to me how his heart melted and all he wanted to do was to hug me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I honestly could not tell at all when I was there!

Remember that your wife is battling many emotions right now and she is a sinner who is going to do things with pride or anger, etc. "Love overlooks a multitude of sins." "Love bears all things." Don't do what you are doing based on her response... or even to get a response. Do it because you are obeying God and you are fulfilling your responsibilities as a husband.

I am not surprised that she responded like she did, because I think that is typical of any person separating from their spouse. Their could be guilt involved, shame, embarrasment. She might simply feel that she just doesn't know what to do. There is also probably some hardness there too. It is probably also difficult for her to deal with it. She wants to just deal with it probably by ignoring it, even though that's impossible and it's causing her depression, sickness, etc.

Be in the Word and study Jesus and how he loved. Read what it says about husbands. Maybe get some books by some Christian authors about being a good husband. Charles Swindoll is good... James Dobson, Tony Evans. Oh, there is a little mini-book by Tony Evans on the husband's role. You should get that. Some other good authors are Henry Blackeby (Experiencing God, The Man God Uses, Spiritual Leadership), Dennis Rainey, Gary Smalley, John McArthur. All of them have books on manhood, etc. Most of all be in the Word, but also I think it'd be good for you to be "mentored" via books or sermons by these godly men. Work on yourself and try not to focus too much on your wife right now.

In fact, take this time as an "opportunity" to grow and to allow the Lord to change what needs to be changed. And keep praying for her, but like JustLearning said, and like God said to Moses <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> , don't just stand there and do nothing either. But, you know, God does say be still sometimes. It really takes discernment and listening to Him.

I will continue to pray for wisdom for you!! I know it is really hard sometimes to know what to do. Believe me... I have been there so much this year!!

"Overcome evil with good."

I will find some articles and links for you to some of these men's writings and attach them.

God bless you. Be encouraged and take heart! "The Lord is for us; who can be against us." He is close to the brokenhearted and we can be assured, that He does hear every prayer and "his power is made perfect in weakness."

Study His Word. Study Paul's letters. There is alot in there to men on how to be a godly man and a good husband. Husbands are told to LOVE their wives. Women need LOVE. Active, pursuing, committed love (despite her behavior) speaks volumes to a woman.

Before I post these, remember... you are still her HUSBAND. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Nothing has changed that. Her feelings cannot change that. God has made you husband and wife. He will bless you when you are being the husband He has called you to be. He will also bless you and your marriage when you obey Him and when you hate divorce like He does.

I hope these can help some! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

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