Hi all -
This is a relatively anonymous forum in which I can glean information, so I'm going to take advantage of it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I am a Christian and try to live like one. My husband (ex) was the first man I slept with, and I was with him until I was 31. I knew I was going to have trouble with the premarital sex rule after my divorce, as I just enjoy sex a lot. I waited a year to date so I wouldn't be vulnerable and whatever, and then I started dating. I dated a man for almost a year, and I was really good about not going there for about 6 months. He was a Christian too, so understood and was trying to be good as well. We always felt bad about breaking that rule, but continued to do it. I ended up ending the relationship because I felt God wouldn't bless a relationship in which I was blatantly ignoring his rules. (And also because he wanted to marry me and I wasn't ready for that.) So here I am dating again, but afraid to put myself in the situation again. I wonder if it isn't easier to just not date. But I feel like I should be strong enough to resist this. Not to mention the fact that finding a Godly man that isn't afraid of a 33 year old woman with 3 kids that I am attracted to is kind of hard to find!! Does anyone else struggle with this? I'm afraid of getting married again, but it would solve my whole premarital sex issue. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

premarital sex is for those who have not been married before. . .

you have been married before, so that rule no longer counts. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Oh, I have been struggling with the same issue...and there really is not answer. I have teenager daughters to deal with too.

What do I tell them...do as I say and not what I do. We also have been trying to do the right thing..but it is difficult.

By the way, I have four kids and am 48...and I am in no way ready to get married. Pat

Heh heh heh... now I wish that were the case WIFTT...

I have personally gotten too close for my own comfort a couple of times. I have refrained, but had I been more attracted to them, I would have had great difficulty.

I know the answer... we all know the answer. However, we also know about alot of things that we do. That does not make it right. I absolutely believe that I shouldn't have sex outside of marriage. But I agree, wow... that is going to be a hard one when I find someone that I am really attracted to. Luckily??? I have not found that someone yet, so the urge is purely physical and my heart not to mention the ramifications are able to stop me.

I really do worry about this however. I too love making love. It has been over a year... I know, many others have been much longer. But, for me at this point in my life, it is very difficult. The potential is right in front of me, there at any moment had I the desire... a phone call to the right woman and... I just do my best to stay out of the situation in which I will be tempted too severely. That has not been too hard yet, because I still haven't found anyone that I could see myself being with long term. But I am deathly worried about myself when I do.

But you know, it brings to question... I believe that we cannot 'earn' our way into heaven. We have to work on our heart and hopes. The thought of having sex with a partner might be overwhelming... am I any better walking away, dreaming about making love to her within my heart??? Than if I had seduced her or allowed her to seduce me? I don't know. I believe that it is really what is inside our hearts that counts. Obviously, that is shown by our actions but to what degree. I know that my heart says NO... but is that diminished because I am a weak man. I just don't know. It does somewhat worry me that I might be tempted to marry sooner than I would really like or feel comfortable with, in order to be able to sate this need. The Bible even states 'that it is better to marry than to burn with lust.'

I am just worried about holding celebacy as a virtue as a single man, within my heart, and a lovely woman in my hand...

You know, I struggle with the same thing. Now, I'm going to be graphic.

I had a 3-4 month relationship that ended because of this very thing. We both felt a bit guilty. Him especially, I suppose, as he was the one who ended it. First time in my life I ever had long-lasting sex - not the 20 minute type. It was great fun but it was not making love.

Then, there is the other man...sometimes we have sex, sometimes we make love. And it is more fun than I have ever had in bed because, for once someone cares. But, as a Christian, I struggle a bit with guilt. But this man is not a Christian and it bothers him not a bit. There were discussions leading up to it. My concern is that, as a Christian, I don't feel that I am setting a good example. We've talked about the fact that I am a bit troubled but I know this man cares deeply for me. This is not just a fling. This is a caring relationship. I figure I could be doing worse. Call it rationalization, if you will. The conflict is there in my mind. But we both know where we stand and how we feel.

WhoamI,

Happy to "meet" ya!

Wiffty: tsk, tsk!!!!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I will throw my own 02¢ in here, if that's ok.
WaRNING! This is MY OPINION ONLY and in no way implies that I would be able to follow it explicitly myself if placed in the same position. There, that's my disclaimer. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> FWIW, I believe my advice won't be any different than it would be if I were advising a young person.....

As we here all know, God's laws are meant for our GOOD, not to keep us from having fun!! Having said that, of course, we all also know that His laws are very difficult to walk in ("straight is the path, and narrow is the way....and few there be that find it....") HOWEVER: I DO believe God expects us to walk in HIS ways, NOT deliberately breaking His laws just because it's hard.....

In that vein, may I suggest that you do a couple of things.....first of all: ONLY date christian men. In this way, they should have the same concern over this issue that you do (emphasis on should). Second of all, if and when you find such a man, be sure to start off right! Discuss this at the very beginning of your relationship (so you know he feels the same way). Pray together often. This will keep Christ right there in the midst of your "dates" with you, thereby helping you to refrain from entertaining (for too long) the wrong thoughts!

WhoamI, another point to remember is that YOU set the pace in your dating life. Any man "worth having" will only take his strides from YOUR signals. In other words, he should only move as far in the "physical" area as YOU allow. As you ask God to keep you chaste, and to refrain from sexual activity outside of marriage, I believe He will help you (and your date) in this. I also believe that the man would also be asking God for this for himself. That would certainly help.

Good luck in this arena, and may God Bless your dating adventures!

Throwing my 2 cents into the pot...
I had premarital sex with my ex-wife before we married (both our first marriage). After my divorce I dated another Christian lady - we also had premarital sex.
My humble opinion is: premarital sex CURSES relationships. Please don't do it. There are other ways to satisfy that biological urge - may be crude, but for me (at least) better that way than to do something I know is forbidden in the Bible and will curse the future relationship.
JMHO. Harold

My thoughts on sex outside of M are pretty clear to me right now.

I had sex without commitment for 34 yrs so I don't want to go there again. Committed marriage and sex is the only way for me.....

The cohabitation crowd is suffering all the same effects as the married crowd in our generation because commitment and "til death due us part" is no longer important. Everything tells us "if it feels good, do it".

I also have been pondering what Jesus meant when he said that "a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife and THEY WILL BECOME ONE FLESH ". Think about that oneness. Isn't that what we all want? I do!!!!!! How can there be oneness if you are both going separate ways and living different lives and having sex here and there. There is no oneness in 2 people living their lives in whatever way they want. Haven't we all had enough of that? I believe that if 2 people have sex before commitment than it short-cicuits the longevity of the R cause sex alone does not keep 2 people together.

I guess we all need to re-learn how to not put ourselves in tempting situations. Nothing in this world will tell us to restrict our appetites....one of my favorite verses is 2 Peter 1:3-4: "His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness.....we may participate in His divine nature and ESCAPE the corruption in the world caused by evil desires".

I hate to say this---but I would rather live alone for the rest of my life (which is torture right now) than to have someone who can't commit himself to me. Sex without marriage is non-committal.

TW

I like wifttys answer. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

But, here I go with my unpopular opinion ... I think a lot of it has to do with your personal relationship with God.

I have spoken to God many times about my current relationship. I am not in any way ready to be married in the eyes of man. I do however feel a sense of being married in God's eyes. I have sworn my dedication and commitment to the man I love, and I don't care that I don't have a legal document that claims he is my husband.

God knows my heart. I believe that although man's records show that I was married in 1993 and divorced in 2001, that was never a marriage in God's eyes. I believe I have been forgiven for the sins of premarital sex I had as an unbeliever. I believe that the man I am with now is God's choice for me.

Anyway, that's what I believe.

Thank you all for your really honest answers to a complex issue. Like others here, I *know* what the right thing to do is. But I also know there is a very big chance that when I am in a serious relationship that I won't make the right choice. I believe everything the Bible says about the subject, including what Lupolady said about God giving us such laws because he knows what is best for us. I don't question his authority or love for us at all. I guess I am just worried that I will blatantly go against what I know to be the truth. In theory, it seems like an easy choice. Don't do it. Date Christian men. Stay out of the situation. But to be brutually honest, the physical expression of love is one of the things I miss the most from my marriage. The other thing I miss the most is a complete family - a partner to share my life and children with. And yet another part of the equation is that I don't know many (any?) men who would want to try to wait until marriage. They think it is a good idea in theory but just not realistic. I guess what I am most disappointed about is that I even have to question it. I should just be able to decide it isn't an option, like cheating on a spouse or stealing or something. And like Formerly Confused mentioned, if I'm not doing it, I'll certainly be thinking about it, so I know I would try to rationalize it by saying "I might as well do it since my mind is anyway." I don't believe we get into heaven by works either, and I believe in God's grace and forgiveness, but I know I'm not following the right path when I use that as a "Get out of hell free card." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> It is just a hard hard topic that I wanted to hear others thoughts on. Thanks so much -
Krista (WhoamInow)

The other equation with this whole mess is the financial aspect of a new marriage. I can't afford to lose my military benefits because I get married again.....

So where does that leave a relationship? The man I am seeing is a wonderful person...However, he has just gone through a nasty divorce, he doesn't make very much money, AND he has 6 kids to support. I couldn't marry him--at least not in the forseeable future.

I know the Bible says not worry about that---but in reality, there is no way I could marry him. So...where does that leave sex in a loving relationship?

I read this post yesterday when it first started but couldn't form my response immediately on such a weighty subject. I also have wondered the same thing, even if there is no man in my forseeable future!

Lupolady took my thoughts and expressed them perfectly. So I just "ditto" her.

I'm not so sure it's a question of "love" as much as it is of "obedience". But that's just my opinion and I'm not sure how well I'd do in real life, presented with the right/wrong circumstances.

I think it's great this thread has had as much traffic on the weekend. Obviously it's something that touches a lot of people! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

If you love him and he loves you, (s)he'll respect your wishes to have a relationship develop that is SENSUAL, flirty, bright, and fun without it being SEXUAL. I think, tossing in my $0.02, that as the relationship develops more and more there will be a temptation to consumate it because, after all... that's what we did when we were married right? It all led to sex.

We're not married anymore. So lets think outside of the box... have a relationship that doesn't lead to sex, that doesn't have to lead to sex. Develop and share interests beyond sex. And, when the desire is there, take them in your arms and ravage them with kisses! We all know the trap of obsessive thinking and how many "christians" do you know that are absolutely and in all ways OBSESSED with sex? Too many. Obsess about something else... beauty, laughter, funny stuff, bright stuff.

In the end, and it's just a line in the sand, I hope to set and assert boundaries more effectively than I did in my marriage. If they love you, they'll respect you and wait. Wherever you set that boundary... and I expect that everyone will set it differently. BUT, and this is a crucial BUT... take your time getting to those boundaries! Remember in high school, your first relationship... how you held hands for weeks before you kissed... and then you kissed for months before anything else happened?

I would love to hold a lovely lady in my arms, caress her face, talk softly, hold each other passionately, and fall asleep at some point with her in my arms and wake up with her next to me. Sex can wait.

WhoAmINOW,

If we think God didn't bless marriages that had premarital sex then we'd be contradicting a verse in the bible that states this, "But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry..."

If God couldn't forgive people who have sex first, he'd say so, and he'd tell you not to marry a person you have premarital sex with, but he doesn't.

I've seen marriages fall apart that had premarital sex first as much as marriages falling apart that didn't have sex before hand. So, if that was true and the marriage that didn't have premarital sex first were blessed, then...Why'd their marriage break up too?

Look at Annavon's marriage on MB. The reason her ex didn't have premarital sex with her was suppose to be because of his Christianity but instead it was because of his own sexual disfunctions and questionable need for little boys not women.

I am not going to find myself in that situation with a man.

I don't want a man who is sexually active after his divorce but when we get engaged and plan to marry then I want a test drive to make sure all the equipment is in good working condition, there are no defects, and also that we match in bed and he doesn't do things that turn me off, because I know if I get in a marriage where sex is a problem in a man's life, then my marriage will be doomed from the beginning because it's an important part of my life.

I'd rather find out if I am sexually compatible with my future husband before he's my husband than after. I do not ever want to go through another divorce.

My ex and I had premarital sex. My marriage didn't fall apart because of God not blessing it. My marriage fell apart because of my own stupidity in not listening to what kind of man God wanted Christians to marry.

I have said this a few times on MB...The instructions on what to look for in a spouse are right there in the bible. This time I am looking for a man with peace, patience, kindness, goodness and faithfulness. That is what God tells us to look for in people, so wouldn't it make sense for your spouse to have those as well?

God warns us to stay away from sexual immorality, impurity and extreme indulgence in sexuality; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, constant quarreling, factions (self-seeking) and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like.

This is why marriage fell apart before. I ignored God's instructions and married a person with rage, discord and drunkenness....I have only me to blame for that.

I'm not saying for you to have sex before marriage, I'm just saying that I think it has nothing to do with God blessing your marriage or not. If anything I think God rejoices that the man and woman finally did the right thing.

The only type of marriage I can think of that God says he doesn't bless are those who cheat on their first spouses and are remarrying someone other than their first spouse.

The big problem for me is to refrain from sex with men I am not sure I am going to marry or know I won't marry because now that I know what sex is about, it's even harder for me to wait for that right person because it's like eating a candy bar for the first time, once I had chocolate...

If I were in your shoes and thinking about sex, I'd be asking myself this...Am I going to marry this person? Has he asked me yet? Is there an engagement ring? If not, then I'd try hard to refrain from having sex until I get those questions answered.

ANNA

Hi All,

Great topic, I just had to jump in. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Nice try wiftt. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

When God refers to 'one flesh', He is considering marriage, however; because we humans have chosen to have sex prior to marriage does not change what God said.

if you join yourself to another whom you're not married to, you still become one flesh!!

Think about it, most women if not men can remember every man she had sex with, because of the emotions involved. It's more difficult for us to think properly once our emotions become involved.

And let's face it God will forgive us for anything, we're only human, however; that doesn't mean we ignore what we know to be right. True repentence is to 'turn from sin' and not do it again.

Anna2000

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've seen marriages fall apart that had premarital sex first as much as marriages falling apart that didn't have sex before hand. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It happens all the time.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't want a man who is sexually active after his divorce but when we get engaged and plan to marry then I want a test drive to make sure all the equipment is in good working condition, there are no defects, and also that we match in bed and he doesn't do things that turn me off, because I know if I get in a marriage where sex is a problem in a man's life, then my marriage will be doomed from the beginning because it's an important part of my life.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The one thing I have gotten in all of this, is that if we had inquired at the time of God asking if this was our mate, we would have had the answer or He would have shown us why they were not. I don't believe it's necessary to test drive when God puts it together. I'm not saying all marriages breakup because God was not involved, I'm saying He should have been consulted in every area. I can personally say I never consulted Him and in 'hine site' I saw many signs that we shouldn't have been married. However, once you are married, God blesses the union, regardless of the mess we make of it.

God Bless,
relady

Hello,

If you are Christian, the term for premarital sex is FORNICATION!

I loved my fiance/best friend and also struggled with premarital sex because I am a christian also.......so I married her.....problem solved <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Anna2000:

Look at Annavon's marriage on MB. The reason her ex didn't have premarital sex with her was suppose to be because of his Christianity but instead it was because of his own sexual disfunctions and questionable need for little boys not women.

ANNA[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wow, surprised to find myself on this thread! But it is a question I really struggle with now... In a 12 year marriage, we had sex about 12 times, none the last 7 years. Celibicy was alot easier when I was trying to make a marriage work... now I"m single and dating and wow! It's hard to keep on the straight and narrow. EVen with Christian men. And I do worry that if I met a man of strong moral character, if I would trust him......after all, I really got fooled the first time.