Anna and others who are interested,
I read the thread this morning about having premarital sex after we've already been married.

In your post you said,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The only type of marriage I can think of that God says he doesn't bless are those who cheat on their first spouses and are remarrying someone other than their first spouse.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Would you mind sharing where that comes from? I'm not one to get in biblical debates, but this is the first time I've heard that opinion.

I'm a person who did cheat on my exhusband. I have, however, asked and received forgiveness from our Lord. I'm still praying and hoping my exH will forgive me and we can be married again. (married 21 years, I've known him 30 years) I also ended it with OM before the divorce was final, and I have no interest in dating anyone else. My divorce was final almost a year ago. I still love my exh, and believe that if it's in God's will my exH will love me again.

Now, let's imagine that I wait for exH for several more years. However, let's say that he decides he can't forgive me, and any chance of remarriage to him is a lost cause.

Keeping this in mind, you're saying that our Lord won't bless any future marriage I might have with a different man? (not the OM, no, no! He's long gone, NC for a year,affair was a HUGE mistake.) I'm a Christian, and I'd only date and marry a Christian. You're honestly saying that our Lord wouldn't bless our marriage as I sinned in the first marriage? Please, Anna, with all due respect--where did you get that information from? Does the Lord never again bless anyone who's sinned in one way or another? My religion teaches me that we're all sinners, not just adulterers. If we're still in sin, it's one thing, but if we've repented? I'm not trying to be argumentative or difficult, but I'm just curious as to where you've gotten that information. It's certainly news to me.

Perhaps this is a belief of your particular denomination, or church. I'm a Lutheran, and we believe we're saved through the grace of an understanding, loving, Lord. Your statement runs counter to what I've been taught all these years.

I'm not trying to 'fight', just curious. As Christians, we all love the same Lord.

I do realize that different denominations interpret things differently, and I'm again just interested as to where you got this information about who the Lord blesses, and who he doesn't bless.

Thanks for your time,
H_P

<small>[ July 12, 2003, 01:24 PM: Message edited by: hopeful_person ]</small>

Hi HP-
I'm not Anna and didn't make that statement, but I did post the original premarital sex question. I think the biggest thing is that you have repented and asked for forgiveness from God. You don't plan on cheating again. Not to put words in Anna's mouth, but maybe she is thinking of those unfaithful spouses that are unrepentant, like my ex H.

My question was can I ask God to bless my relationship with someone if I am repeatedly in violation of a very important rule. If you asked God to forgive you and knew you were going to continue being unfaithful, it would be different.
That is what I am struggling with when thinking of a future relationship - how can I repeatedly break the rules while asking God to bless that relationship?!

I hope things work out the way you want them to with your ex H. The good news is that God's plan is always the best one, so we can take comfort in that!

Krista

<small>[ July 12, 2003, 04:41 PM: Message edited by: WhoamInow ]</small>

hopeful,

The power of Jesus' blood cannot be limited. It is more than powerful enough to cover any and all sins or situations. One has to go to God for answers about marriage, remarriage, reconciliation, or anything else. Ask Him to give you a sign as to what He wants for you.

I had to ask God for an answer to a situation like this. I was afraid my current marriage was not blessed by God. I fasted for 3 days and at the end of that fast, I recieved a very clear answer from God. He does bless my current marriage and wants it reconciled. The way GOd answered me was awesome. I had to leave the room and go by myself and fall to my knees and praise God. He is the ony one that can answer these type of questions. For this I am thankful.Seek Him.

gentle

<small>[ July 12, 2003, 07:50 PM: Message edited by: gentle ]</small>

HP,

What I am saying is different than your scenario.

If you were to marry the guy you had an affair with, that is the marriage I don't think God would ever bless from the scriptures I've read.

Although, I can't even say whether God will bless a marriage or not bless any marriage as I am not God and that would be me judging instead of him. I can say what God commands, and God does command us not to commit adultery in our marriages so I don't see him blessing the relationship that broke up a marriage God blessed to begin with over adultery; especially since God hates divorce.

Here's some scriptures for you to read...

Mark 10;10&11
10When they were in the house again, the disciples asked Jesus about this. 11He answered, "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. 12And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery."

Matthew 19:9
I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery."
(Whole Chapter: Matthew 19 In context: Matthew 19:8-10)

Matthew 5:32
But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.
(Whole Chapter: Matthew 5 In context: Matthew 5:31-33)

Those verses in Matthew are sometimes misinterpretted by people. I interpret it this way, "If a man divorces his wife and he is not leaving her because he is or is going to have an affair then she should not remarry unless it is with him.

Those verses are also very controversal. I have heard people ask, "What does a woman do if after the divorce he marries or finds someone else? Then how can you still wait for him?

I believe Jesus is commanding this because lets say a wife is unhappy in the marriage and wants a divorce but knows God commands her not to divorce so she thinks she can get her husband to divorce her by not having sex with him or maybe he's divorcing her because she just stops fulfilling her duties as a wife. Well, God is saying, "No" people can't do that and it doesn't work that way, you better work out this marriage because you can't have him divorce you and think you are in the clear of God's judgement because you didn't have an affair.

I also want to point out that I think Jesus is saying this to men about their wives because he is talking to men in this chapter and I believe it goes for both spouses to do their marital duties and not cause a divorce.

HP,I wish you luck with your husbands forgiveness, but more than that, I hope you have forgiven yourself.

Take care,

ANNA

Hopeful_person:

Looking over Anna's verses, there is another very important interpretation that is often forgotten in these modern days of "equality" and that is that in the times of Jesus, in Jewish homes, women were not "equal" to their men. Men would and could divorce a woman because she didn't cook dinner when he wanted it or how it liked it! Thus, I think this was also partially Jesus' way of protecting women and families too.

Notice that he says over and over that he who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, commits adultery. Well, this gives women and families some rights and security and protection. As long as she is faithful and doing her wifely duties to the best of her abilities, he can not just summarily dismiss her and take up with someone else. If he does, he is sinning--period.

Nowadays, when we are in a more "equal" society, I think the deeper message of these verses is that MARRIAGE IS SACRED. It is not just a bond between a man and a woman, who get to flit around from sex partner to sex partner when they are dissatisfied. There is a vow before God, and there is a family unit now created that is stronger than just being displeased, and we are called to commitment to keeping our families stable. Our marriage is supposed to be a demonstration here on earth of the love God has for His children!! It's a high calling!

If God's original intent in these verses is to protect the women and children in a society that did not give them a lot of rights, and if God's intent was to make families stable and dependable, and if God's intent was to add a sacred element to marriage, then I believe that is still His intent today. God's perfect will is for us to remain faithful, love each other, and love our families; however, since we are sinful humans, we do have the free will to choose to do that which is not His perfect will.

Personally, I'm in a situation where I have a relationship with God and my former spouse does not. My former spouse chose to cheat on me many times and was verbally, mentally, and emotionally abusive toward me and the kids. My former spouse chose to leave me and the family. That leaves me in exactly the position you are asking about hopeful_person. I was faithful; I worked on our marriage and did not leave; I saw the things I was doing to hurt him and worked to change; and now I am single (according to the laws of this land).

Does this mean that I would commit adultery if I were to find another man and marry him? I'm not positive, but my intuitive reaction is probably not. In any marriage, there were behaviors for which the wife is responsible, and behaviors for which the husband is responsible and we both needed to take care of our own side of the street. I think I did. As luck would have it, not that I am totally perfect or anything, but I am now divorced even though I took care of my side of the street. So, my belief is that God knows I want to share my life with someone and does not want to continue to hurt and judge me because of my exH's choices.

You instance is a little different because you were the one who was unfaithful--and let me say right here and now I'm not being judgmental, just factual. It occurred. You made a mistake, recognized it was wrong, repented and repaired. The fact is, there are going to be some natural consequences for your choice. This is just the way it is. That I can tell from what you've written, you also took care of the behaviors for which you are responsible--you took care of your side of the street. Yeah, you messed it up, but you also cleaned it up and desired to repair your marriage. Now, if you spouse is the one who decides to NOT continue the marriage, then in my opinion, you just keep doing what you know you OUGHT TO DO!! You just keep your own self on the straight and narrow, and let God use you. God knows you and knows the desires of your heart, and if it's His will to bless a relationship then He'll make it clear to you. Trust me! HE WILL!!

Until you're hit on the head with it, keep your focus where it belongs (on Him).

And that's my two cents worth!!

CJ

<small>[ July 13, 2003, 01:54 PM: Message edited by: FaithfulWife ]</small>

The Bible also says in 1 Corinthians 7

"yet, if an unbelieving one leaves, let him leave; the brother or sister is not under bondage
in such cases, but God has called us to peace.

For hw do you know O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O Husband, whether you will save your wife?

This in what I have learned says..in the case of an unbelieving spouse leaving the marriage..the one who is a believer is not under the bondage of never remarrying..or having to remarry their former spouse..

hopeful_person:

Is your exh also a Christian?

and just because you feel it's God's will you get back together..doesn't mean your ex-h will follow
God's will..

Have you talked to your ex-h about this? Have the two of you began dating again? Have the two of you begun working on the issues that led to your choices?

If not, then begin praying about that..because if you haven't worked through those issues they would still be there if you were to remarry--

I believe you've changed..but has your ex-h also made changes?? Has he also sought forgiveness for things he did that hurt the marriage?

I don't believe your choice's were the only problem within your marriage..the shear fact that you choose to have an affair meant you felt something vital was missing in the marriage..

So I ask, Have those issues been dealt with? Do you know what it was that was missing? was it something within yourself? or was it something your spouse did, or didn't do?

Because if they haven't been dealt with, then the relationship your going back to would be the same as it was...and vunerable to your leaving again..

So if you are seriously considering going back to
your ex-h, which by the way, would be wonderful for all concerned..you need to consider these things...

Thanks so much for your replies. It means so much to me to have all of your insightful words. Such helpful 'stuff' to think and pray about.

I'll respond later on when I have time. I'm running off to work now.

God bless,
H_P