I'm looking for any advice on planning a shared parenting plan when you don't always trust the judgement of an ex-spouse. My STBXW had been working for several years with clients that were not always in this country legally. She has left our kids without my knowledge with some of these clients and she's been with clients when they knowingly used false id to get drivers licenses, knowingly helped people avoid detection by law enforcement, etc. My STBXW testified that she would trust leaving our kids with these clients, especially the ones that became OM.

My STBXW is very trusting, too much so sometimes. I don't think she'd knowingly put the kids in danger but her reality of what is a dangerous situation seems different than most people. Otherwise, I think she is a pretty good mother. She's probably forgotten a heck of a lot more about raising kids than I'll ever remember.

After our final hearing a couple of weeks ago, I learned through a friend of my STBXW that one of the OM (also a former client) was involved in a serious crime in his country and one of the reasons he was here a couple of years ago was because he was fleeing the situation. I learned at our last court hearing that this OM is back in the area. I now feel like I've got to watch my back and I trust my STBXW's judgement even less. Afterall, she had this OM over to our home for holiday dinners (disgusting, I know) and had him doing handyman chores around the home after she knew these things about him but before I knew he was OM1.

BTW, I don't know anything about OM1 and if he in fact did commit this serious crime in his home country, it is possible that it was never reported to authorities so there might not be any warrants out for him or anything. He actually did go back to his home country for about 2 years before returning recently.

Our divorce hearing is going to be reopened soon because of this new evidence about OM1. I will be asked if I think any changes need to be made to my shared parenting plan such as visitation schedules and if visitation should be supervised.

I really don't know too much about visitation plans not having any experience with this and I don't have any family members with experience like this. Any advice on recommendations for supervised visitation or custody in situations where you feel the other parent may put the children at some risk? I don't think I can request that my STBXW not see the kids but on the other hand, I feel like they need to be protected in some way. Neither of us have family in the area to help out with watching our children.

HoFS

<small>[ July 22, 2003, 03:09 PM: Message edited by: HofFenceSitter ]</small>

I don't remember the ages of your children, or what your current custody arrangement is. If you are a good father, and were always involved with your children, 50/50 seems to be the way the courts in my area are trending.

However, I don't know how you'll limit with whom the children spend time. I would definitely include the "Right of First Refusal" in your agreement. This means that before your X asks anyone to sit your children during her parenting time, you would have the first opportunity to care for the children. Remember, this works both ways. Most of these statements are written as if the minimum time is 2 hours, so that you don't interrupt another's life.

My STBX forced a custody evaluation - which ultimately worked against him. Due to my concerns, the psychologist wrote certain things in the report as major concerns. In my case, my STBX thought nothing of leaving the children inside the house, and working in his detached garage and moving heavy equipment around (on our 3 acre property). This may be be a concern of most, but imagine if a young child ran after dad, and he couldn't see or hear her, or if she choked while sleeping.

Give more specifics about your situation and maybe i can suggest something.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by newly:
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Give more specifics about your situation and maybe i can suggest something.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">newly-

I thought I could count on you to respond! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Ok, my boys are 7, 11, and 13. I requested that I be named the primary residental parent and that I pick up the boys after 6 pm from their mother's home and put them on the bus in the morning. They would go directly to their mother's home after school. I also requested alternating weekends and 50/50 time on vacations and in the summer.

I know I can't watch my STBXW all of the time but I'm concerned about the judgements she is making and how trusting she is of people. She's told a friend of hers that OM1 took a life but, "...that is so hard to believe because he is such a nice and caring guy." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

A friend of mine gave me another analogy: Do you trust a dog that has bitten you once...or twice? Or are you always super cautious and on your guard around them? In my experience, I'm on my guard.

I'm a little frightened by OM1 and he knows where we live (obviously) and my STBXW testified that she met with him twice recently and that he's called our home. Great, huh. I don't have any first hand evidence against this guy so I really can't go to law enforcement with anything.

So now....any advice?

HoFS

First off, since they are all boys, and the oldest in the teenage years, it should be favorable to you. Which is to say, start with the assumption of a 50/50 time split, and show cause as to why you deserve more time.
Ie. the boys ages, sports activities in which you are involved, classes, etc.
Do you have a history of active involvement in their lives, or only post separation?

Also, please clarify. Do you want them overnight every single night (except the alternating weekend), and they would only see their mother from after school until 6 pm? If so, it sounds unrealistic in that she'll need chunks of time with the boys, and unless you can prove they are in danger, the court will probably give her overnights. The 6 pm daily pickup time also involves too many transfers, and you will need to civilly interact with your STBXW every single day. This is usually not recommended.

Why are they at mom's afterschool everyday. Do you both work? If so, they may need afterschool programs.
Remember the old traditional plan was every other weekend (Friday - Sunday at 7 pm, or into Monday morning), and dinner or an overnight during the week. This plan works out to either 3 - 5 days ever two weeks, or 20% or 35% of the time. This is what my husband was granted by the psychological evaluator (who is rethinking his recommendation after viewing H's additional actions). Now remember, your STBX is probably thinking that this is all the time YOU will have with the children. It sounds like you want to flip this on her, and give her the minimum time.
Would you feel safe with the boys overnight at mom's house? Honestly - will they be in harm's way?

Read some books on the subject for more objective advice. Each case is different, but your lawyer should know how your judge views joint parenting, and will also know the most likely plan.

I do not have much advice since I am new to this area of concern...However, my W OP is in the area and in fact, the same heighborhood...My intent is to somehow exclude this OP from any contact w my son for obvious reasons...My counselor would likely recommend this as well..My W will object as some sort of control issue, but I simply do not want my son having any interaction w/ this individual...Sadly, my W would likely not see the merits in this....Also, since I am leaving the state to move to De w/ 2 older kids, W is staying in Fla for the time being...Thia presents a problem...Anyway, good info to know and I will post how my situation goes...

Okay, folks, I think we forgot that HOFS is an engineer and wants facts and figures and practical schedules. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> It should be mathematical, precise, Thinker kind of stuff.

So, HOFS, the first thing I would say to you would be this…you know that phrase “How do I MAKE HER blah blah blah?” My first advise to you would be to delete that phrase from your vocabulary. You can not now nor will you ever be able to MAKE her do anything—including putting the kids safety before her own trust and lust. She will bring those OM around the kids and you can’t MAKE her stop. She will trust untrustworthy people and you can’t MAKE her more wise. She will put the children secondary to “those nice, gentle guys” and you can’t stop her. So STOP TRYING. JUST STOP IT. (That’s my Bob Newhart, “Stop It!” Therapy). She is going to do what she wants to do no matter what you do to “make” her do anything, so if you adjust your own thinking you will save yourself a whole bunch of hassle and agony.

Second, the thing you must consider is this: as the responsible parent who cares about the safety of his children before his own desires, how can you put your children in the safest possible situation while simultaneously accepting that your stbxW is going to have some parenting time that you can’t control? THAT is the question! This consideration must be balanced with the fact that the local judge/magistrate seemed to like the idea of daily contact with both parents, because it afforded the boys the most responsible environment with daily connection to each parent.

SOOOooo…

I think your current plan is okayish. The boys live at your house, sleep in your home, wake up and you take them to school, and after school they go to her house. Then, after work, you go pick them up at her house and have them for the evening. I assume that they’ll stay overnight at her house one weekday night and every other weekend…something like that. You mentioned (or someone did) the right of first refusal—and this is a grand idea. However, as I understand it, your concern/question is how can you keep the boys away from any felons while at her house after school, overnight, or on the weekends…right? Well the short answer is, you can’t. The longer answer is to plan. Will stbxW be working after school? If so, then the boys will probably either be alone (after all, the oldest is in his teens) or be with a “sitter” or an after-school program. In all three events, they are fairly safe and can call you directly if anyone is near them who is not their mother, teacher, or “sitter.” Period. If stbxW is NOT working after school, that’s when there’s a dilemna, because SHE will be there and SHE can invite over anyone she decides to, and you can’t “make” her stop it! So she will claim they are perfectly safe around that criminal persona because she is there (What? Will she stop the felon??)

I believe maybe your parenting plan needs to say that the boys will be with her after school (from 3:30-6:00pm) AND NO ONE ELSE IS ALLOWED TO BE WITH THE BOYS during those hours except their mother, teacher or a “sitter” whom you agree to in writing. Another alternative would be that there be a designated person to be there during those hours—sort of “slightly supervised visits”—however that person could be a neighbor, MIL, whoever. Now, knowing your MIL and neighbors that won’t stop your stbxW one bit, but it might at least slow her up AND offer an third party witness to what is going on with the boys safety. Finally, you could ask for real supervised visits, but since it’s not really the ex HERSELF who has done the crime, I doubt if you’ll get it.

Of course there are always scheduling alternatives like one week with you and one week with her, but frankly I don’t think those would fit these circumstances. I think the plan I have may work: day-to-day “homebase” with me, one night per week overnight, and any other time during the day or week that is prearranged and has an “activity”—for example, my exH will call and say, “I’d like to take D bowling tonight” or “I’d like to hit a bucket of balls with S”—and unless it’s HORRIBLY inconvenient, I let them go do their activity. I do the day-to-day stuff (homework, friends, chores, laundry, grocery); he does the movies, Rec Ctr., bowling, and golf—but I know they are taken care of and safe. This might translate into your situation as you being “homebase” and your stbxW having them one night a week (either all three at the same time, or one at a time) and for events such as “for her softball game” or “for church and lunch after” or “for their basketball game”—you get the drift…places where she will be with a whole bunch of other people.

Finally, you need to remember and accept the fact that stbxW really IS going to be moving on with her own life (so are you) so that it really is not going to be practical to say that “no men can be around my children” or that kind of thing. The day may come when she meets and marries someone nice, and he will be step-dad to your boys. So as you consider this parenting plan, keep that in mind too. There may be SPECIFIC people whom you can name who can not be within the presence of your children, or you may need to get a restraining order on their behalf (that kind of legal stuff). Ultimately, though, you can no longer control what happens to your boys while they are with your exW. The best you can do is manage it wisely and keep your focus on the BOYS and on YOU.

Your true and faithful friend,

CJ

I guess I need to clarify some things....

amaging-
Thanks for the input. I am surprised that you can move with the children. This will be a difficult adjustment period for them.

newly-
Believe it or not, my STBXW and I are still living under the same roof. Neither one of us is willing to leave the marital residence without a court order. I work the traditional 8-5 with limited travel. My STBXW does not work right now. After her supervisors learned of her affairs with her clients, they asked her to resign. She blames me for her current employment status of course.

I have not proposed any over nights for the kids with their mother during the school year except for the weekends. Actually this is something the child custody evaluator also recommended. I requested that we split holiday and vacation time 50/50 but since I'm working, I would need to make child care arrangements.

I don't mind the 6 pm pick ups. That wouldn't be too big of deal, especially if their mother finds another residence in our school district. When she was working, my STBXW would go to work in the evening, 2-3 times/week meaning she would leave around 6 pm and return after the kids were asleep. That was while she was in her previous job anyway.

It is difficult choice for me. I know that most of the time my STBXW is a good mother. She mades some bad choices though and I am worried about the consequences down the road. My lawyer and I decided not to turn this into a criminal trial and not talk about how my STBXW was knowingly helping people use false ids to get jobs and driver's licenses. Not long ago a letter from the SS office showed up for someone I don't know. Turns out, my STBXW let this person use our home address as their permanent address on an employment application. How would you feel if your ex- left your children under the care of people that were not only here illegally but also in a house were at least two of the residents were arrested for having sex with minors? And to this day, my STBXW says the kids were never in any danger. Right, what if INS had raided that house while she was not there. What hoops would I have had to jump through to get custody of my kids back?

Do I honestly think they'll be in harms way? Hmm, yes, on occassion they could be. All the time? No way. My STBXW says she'd never put them in harms way yet, I see that she already has. Heck the kids were with her when she was telling guys not to go back to their apartments because the police were there. Of course, having a murderer around is another story also. My STBXW would do anything to protect this guy. Actually she probably has already told him to leave the area because he name was brought up in court. Does that make me feel any safer? A little but not much.

Can you recommend any resources I might be able to find at the library?

CJ-
Yes, you are so right! I need a formula. Unfortunately, one does not exist for this situation. I know I can not control my STBXW's behavior. However, I can try to have some say-so over who is around my kids. The fact that my STBXW not only had her affair with a murderer and she invited this man into our home on several occassions for 'family' gatherings and to do work around our place, just scares the heck out of me. I don't know this man or what else he may have been capable of doing.

No, I am looking for some remedy to the judgements my STBXW makes, and unfortunately, I don't have much control over this. You know, I would never hire a kid sitter that acted in a similar manner. As far as the kids go, my oldest told the custody evaluator that he would have more 'fun' living with mom but he would probably be succeed more in his work living with me. In the end, I know the kids will succeed far more and develop into better individuals with input from both my STBXW and myself. I am not trying to exclude my STBXW from their lives.

I think perhaps some kind of orders keeping the kids away from these OM would be appropriate but at the same time, I don't want to appear racist or prejudiced. I don't think I'll be able to request a criminal background check on the guys she has around our children or even a check of SSN to see if they are here legally.

Thanks for the input.

HoFS

Thought I'd post an update on what transpired in court at the emergency hearing....

The friend of my STBXW testified that my STBXW told her that OM1 was involved someway in a murder and that is one reason why he left the area, because it was no longer safe. My STBXW was called to the stand and she said that the friend misunderstood the conversation and that OM1 was never involved in any murder.

The judge did not want to hear from me unless I was submitted a new parenting plan. I wasn't. He did say that he assumed that I did not want any contact between OM1 and the kids and that this would be put in his final order.

But he did not want to hear any further testimony about changes in the parenting plan or my concern about the judgements my STBXW makes. I was somewhat surprised by this.

The biggest surprise was that the judge indicated that this testimony did not change his mind and that he had already formed his opinion. He indicated that he would issue an order within a couple of days.

So who knows? The judge didn't really give any hints as to which side he was favoring. Thanks again for the prayers and advice.

HoFS

I think I missed some things here too.
Did you have a formal custody evaluation? If so, the judge will probably go with that in the entirety. Is that acceptable to you? If not, you'll need to pay for a second, separate one on your own.
I understand the engineer mind as I am the analytical type.
I hope all goes well with you.
I'm on vacation with my girls, and look forward to being divorced on Aug. 5th.

For some reason, on this trip, STBX insists on talking to the girls every single day. We typically go 7 days without him talking to the girls or returnign their voicemails. They all seem to feel bad when the end is near.