Well, I went on my date yesterday at lunch. It went fine... but was not what I had hoped for. Now please don't misunderstand me when I say this next sentence, it is not the heart of what I am looking for. But, she looked very little like her photos... I truly believe that the photos she had sent me were from several years ago. And it really bothers me.

She has gained significant weight, which in itself is not too big of a deal, however, I am really bothered by the differences in her actually and the pictures she sent me. It seems as though more deception has occurred, and I am really feeling torn today.

I know that I had set myself up. And NO, I wasn't looking to find a 'goddess'... but someone who was similar to the photos she had sent me would have been nice. Now... my problem is... trying to reconcile my thoughts about what I know about this woman with the questions that have now arisen. Is what I KNOW about her what is real, or is it truly just more of the 'What I think FC will like, therefore, I am putting it out there for him to see.'

I don't know. I do know, that I have been about sick this morning. And I truly don't really understand why. It is almost like I feel lied to again, and I really don't know what to do. In some ways, I would like to date her again. But in others, I don't want to just continue to find other things that are embellished or half truths.

And then again, I am embarrassed at myself. For worrying about her weight. That is not really an issue for me... but I really did not find her physically attractive, and it just kills me. I don't think of myself as 'THAT' kind of guy, and I really don't think I am... but when I saw her yesterday, all I could think about was, this is NOT who you portrayed yourself to be to me... What else is there that has not been true?

When I tell someone that I have an athletic body... I mean I am 6'2" tall and weight 193 pounds. 46 long jacket with 34 waist. I don't use it as a euphamism for something else... I understand that my term and how someone else uses it may not be exactly the same, but... when I sent her my pictures, they were from a few months ago, several within a couple weeks.

I hate this... I hate this... I hate this...

I hate my thoughts... I am embarrassed by my thoughts... but I am equally concerned about setting myself up for more heartache by finding more things that I held as true that are not.

<small>[ August 05, 2003, 09:26 AM: Message edited by: Formerly Confused ]</small>

Gecko- What ID did you post under before?

I'm in Michigan. Seemingly far from the little 'MB get-togethers' that some folks have. Oh well. I'm pretty much a loner anyway. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Here is my horse:
http://www.villagephotos.com/viewpubimage.asp?id_=3079695

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Formerly Confused:
<strong>I hate my thoughts... I am embarrassed by my thoughts... but I am equally concerned about setting myself up for more heartache by finding more things that I held as true that are not.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do feel that you were deceived, somewhat. If she sent you photos of herself, well, that's not as big of a deception than if she had sent you photos of someone else.

However, if she gave you no reason to suspect that she doesn't look like her photos, then she should have been prepared for your disappointment.

If I told someone I was 123 lbs. and left out the "in high school" part, I'd be deceiving them. I have a 'recent' photo, from last year. If I had cut off all my hair and bleached it since then, and failed to mention that, I'd be deceiving.

I think physical attractiveness is a valid emotional need for both men and women, and I'm sorry you were disappointed and led to believe this person looked differently than she does. It's not right. Of COURSE it matters what a person is like on the inside, but no one should embellish what they look like on the outside, hoping maybe that the other person will fall in love with the inner beauty and overlook the fact that they weren't exactly honest about their appearance.

Well, FC, maybe she just didn't have any recent pictures, so she sent whatever she had, thinking that the changes were not significant. But...I have a hard time believing that.

More likely, she is insecure about her weight and so she "hid" that part of herself from you until she believed that enough of a rapport had been developed that she could feel safe revealing it. After all, none of us reveal all of ourselves in a relationship, and most of us try to show the best parts of ourselves first. It just so happens that Internet and correspondence relationships allow physical characteristics to be included among the things we do not reveal at the outset, and certainly if this lady had intended to be deceptive about her weight, she did not attempt to maintain that deception.

But...I have to admit that I would never send a photo of myself, knowing that it was not an accurate portrayal, if I did not also include a corrective comment - like "This is me from my somewhat younger, thinner days."

The misrepresentation would bother me too, FC.

And frankly, so would the lack of physical attraction - and I'm not embarrassed to admit it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

One of the things I don't like about dating is the romantic assumptions inherent in the process. I have noticed that if I develop a friendship with a woman, with no thought of romance, I often come to see her as attractive. It's easy for me to imagine that if I did happen to develop romantic inclinations toward her, physical attractiveness would not be the issue it would have been if I had been thinking about romancing her from the outset. Unfortunately, I imagine that developing a relationship without being physically present short-circuits this familiarization process.

However, I must admit that the women I have been seriously interested in were both quite attractive by any reasonable standards (and exceptionally beautiful by mine). So take my speculations for what they're worth...

I sorry for interupting this thread for such frivolity but

GNOME DE PLUME!
I love your name!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I was practically married right out of High School so my dating experience is in the negative I think. I've never had to give out the vibe to anyone besides my WW. I am currently separated so I don't feel full on dating is appropriate, but there were no boundaries set and sitting at home isn't the best option for bettering myself, learning things and meeting new people.

This is a hazey area though because you HAVE to be careful if you're still in a relationship not to get attached to this friend. That has been a good learning experience.

I ended up using an online site called match.com. Of course being a guy I've had a lot less interest then the women I'm sure but I did meet someone. I think the online meeting/chatting/emails before actually meeting gives you great insight to a person before you actually meet them. You are free to express yourself without too much fear.

The person I met, luckily for me looked better then her picture (which I figured) not that it was a consideration but it was reassuring. I told her about my situation and she's been a great friend. I haven't drug her into my M problem and she hasn't given me any unwanted advice.

They need a "Guys place" online to meet people of the same sex just as friends. I find meeting people of the opposite a much easier experience then the same sex <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Oh, I don't have any horses so I feel left out! he he

Heya FC!

That has happened to me too! In the photos, actually ALL of the photos she sent me, she looked WAY DIFFERENT than in real life. The funny thing is that she could have done something about it. Example: in the photos she looked dressed up and nice. When I met her, she looked like she hadn't even tried. So, add 10 years, 20 lbs...

Anyways, I've also had the pleasure of meeting someone off a dating site that looks exactly like her photos and she has been a real blast. Last night, we went and did a wall/rock climbing thing and then watched a kung fu movie. Very fun and so is she.

Gecko, I live in Maui, with one horse here; the other is based in Texas. (he's the one I compete on). Yes, it's complicated!

Sorry to hear your date wasn't all you'd hoped, FC. I was hoping it was fabulous so I could live vicariously through you, hearing your giddy reports of new love. Back to the bookstore? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I'd like to go on record saying that wanting to find your partner (or potential partner) attractive is NOTHING to be embarassed about. I don't care if other people find my date attractive, but I DO care if I do. There are rare occasions where someone's personality makes them extremely attractive even if their outward appearance doesn't, but I still can't be repelled by them!

I don't understand why someone would want to mislead someone about how they look. Do they really think they aren't going to be found out? Do they really want to see the shadow of disappointment crossing their date's face upon meeting? I did e-harmony once, and I snapped a picture of myself sitting at the computer so it wasn't me all glamoured up looking weird.

I went on a hideous blind date in June. The guy said he was 5'8. If he was 5'8, I must be 6'4. I'm 5'8 and I like to wear heels, so I was towering over him by serveral inches. Would I date someone shorter than me? Sure, if I liked him enough. But why would my date lie about his height? Did he think I wouldn't notice??! He also said he would be wearing Dockers and a button down shirt. That's fine. But in reality, he wore a long sleeve PUFFY white shirt, like on Seinfeld. It gets worse. He wore another short sleeve brown shirt over it! And very baggy sloppy brown pants. I wondered if he was a pirate that liked to work on cars! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Then when he said "So how are you feeling about our relationship?" about 20 minutes into the meal, I knew I was going to have to run far away!

Anyway, my long rambling message meant to discuss that wanting to find your partner attractive is nothing to be ashamed of. If you base everything on looks, you will be disappointed, but there has to be a balance there.

Krista

<small>[ August 05, 2003, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: WhoamInow ]</small>

LoL WhoamInow about that blind date!

I know I don't want to have to dive into the "dating scene" and I pray that if I do I won't be the poor clueless guy of another woman's story <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Some of us guys just don't get it.

I am not necessarily saying that she purposely deceived me. It is just that the pictures that she sent did not represent her. And that in that misrepresentation, I felt deceived. I don't know what I would have been thinking had I known before hand. I just don't know. But I can tell you, now I am much less sure.

While I am not necessarily glad to hear you echo my concerns for my lack of attraction, I am somewhat comforted. I am NOT a beauty freak. I do not have to have the most beautiful woman, or have any 'can't or must haves' in my thoughts other than honesty and integrity.

I just feel bad and I don't know what to do about it. I hate having invested so much into this woman only to have her NOT be who I find I want. What I hate MOST is that once again, with all humbleness, I find that I have someone who really likes me. I just hate it.

I almost wish for once that someone would say "No" to me. Sure, she will probably be the first one that I actually want to date more... knowing my luck. But I also realize that I have only been dating for about 3 months or so. And been out with only about 8-10 women. That is more than I thought I would ever date without finding someone I at least sort of liked. I don't know... perhaps my ex has tarnished me so badly that I feel any sort of deception or lack of confidence represents the 'possibility' of being left again.

Maybe I do have my sites set too high. I don't think so, and it will be a long time before I lower them again. I refuse to be in a relationship like my last. I refuse to be in a relationship where I am responsible for everyone and everything. Where I am 'afraid' to come home after work because I know that I will start hearing about 'this or that'... Where talking to my wife causes my stomach to churn with worry that one wrong word will set her off... She always used to say that about me... but in reality, it was after she blew and I wouldn't take any more and I fought back... THEN IT WAS ALL ME!!! Forget how it started... I refuse to always be the one to say "I am sorry" even when we both knew it wasn't me who started it. Each of those times that I had to eat the pain in order to restore order killed me a little more. I didn't realize it at the time, but after 14 years of it, I was completely gone... gnawn away piece-meal over the life of my marriage.

I know that I will never find that person in one date. I know that. I know that I can never really know much at all about a person in one date. I can see things that I am not willing to have in my life, and that is enough. But I know that just because I don't see them, doesn't mean that they might show up sometime. I didn't see them in my ex early on. And then when I started seeing them, I didn't really know what was going on. I just knew that I loved her more than anything and that I would deal with whatever I had to. I didn't realize how I was slowly dieing with her lies and haranguing over the last 14 years. THEN I started killing her right back... another thing that I didn't realize. When I realized what I was doing, I did everything to change. She said she knew it, and saw it. Now she says I didn't... it is funny how she can fit even her own words to mean something else.

Anyway, back to dating... Ladies... I know that I have a good heart. Perhaps too good as a couple of my women friends say. They say, "FC, you just need to be a little tougher." I hate making anyone feel bad. I always have, especially my ex. I hate having the power to NOT hurt someone, but wanting to do or say something that MIGHT hurt someone.

I guess what I am asking is... once again... HOW would you want to 'hear' that someone you are very interested in, and who has definitely shown high interest in you. How would you want to hear that he is no longer interested? I mean, I feel like I lead these women on... I don't... not intentionally. I phone them or email them and I am me. If they say things that I like, I tell them. I tell them exactly how I think and who I am. I am not afraid to tell them anything. Perhaps, what I need to do is significantly decrease what I tell them, until I see whether they are someone that I really want to be with. But then, I will be being someone I am not. I will feel like I am 'holding back' rather than being me. Then if she IS someone that I like, I WILL BE THE ONE who is different. And if SHE is the one that would be right for me... perhaps she would need to hear the REAL ME instead of the 'holding back' me in order to want to go out with me...

MAN... I never felt like this was a game... but this last time has really made me wonder. I feel too responsible to these women... mostly because I think that I have told them alot about me and they have responded positively... either in kind... or in overt approval.

ARRRRGGGHHHHHhhhh... I know this isn't really what this divorce site is for... but I don't know of anyone or anything else. My divorce is OVER... but the ramifications linger. I never wanted this divorce... I loved my ex completely... even after 3 affairs, I would have done and did everything to continue. Now I sometimes wonder if anyone is worth the effort I put into my family (meaning WIFE) and children (absolutely worth it). Is anyone worth the effort and ability that I have and am willing to give to another???...

<small>[ August 05, 2003, 08:25 PM: Message edited by: Formerly Confused ]</small>

Dating? A normal dating relationship? I don't know that I would know what that is.

Sure I have the Diplomat. But he lives in the Far Kingdom, literally Far. And a long-distance relationship is not exactly a normal relationship.

I did have the relatively normal dating relationship three years ago, for about 4 months. That's the only normal one since I met x when I was 18.

We don't even want to talk about how long ago that was. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

One thing is for sure. At this rate, I don't think I've been anyone's date from hell since I was about 18.

Although I did have a date from hell when I first started dating. Well, near hell.

Wow..FC...Don't lose heart..everytime we date someone we get that much closer to meeting the one...if we choose to learn from it. If I may be so bold here...it sounds like you're still dealing with a lot of issues from the marital relationship. Don't get discouraged..it takes time. I can honestly say that I am ready for a relationship..the other day I came across my old wedding pictures, and didn't want to burn them! In fact, I didn't cry, or even come close to any real emotion! I just simply put them aside for my girls in the future..those pictures are who they are after all. He's been remarried for almost 2 years, with her for 4 years. The healing process is like an onion (love is like rose petals <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ). Each time we think we've dealt with something, another layer gets peeled off, and there are tears. But, they can be tears of healing and we can let go, or tears of resentment, bitterness, etc, that will leave us stuck. Yes, there are times when he rubs it in my face, and I may have moments, but I look at them as his still trying to control me..it's when he does really immature controlling things with the girls that really makes my heart break.
As for the date...I can understand your feeling of deception, but I will venture to say that for women there is a certain amount of trepidation that goes with posting pictures..after all, the barbie doll figure does not exist, except with the college girls., so who can compete with that? We're told by the men in this culture that unless we have a knock out figure (which, let's face it,,,after children, running households, working, going to school, and sometimes other reasons, like in my case thyroid problems...(no, I'm not using it as an excuse..I did have to have it removed)... we often don't have an extra hour everyday to dedicate to perfecting our imperfect bodies), we may not even get a glance. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> (now, I'm not excusing the seriously overweight..just asking for a little grace here, and no, I'm not seriously overweight, but I certainly have the body of a single mother!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ). Did she offer an explanation? I have pictures posted (I'm on match.com, too), and have been told by both men and women that I'm much better looking in person. I'm 40, but continually get told that I'm mistaken for being anywhere between mid 20's to 32 by both the college kids, as well as women my age. Oftentimes, we want those fireworks to go off, but they burn out fast. When you talk to people who are in love, they more often than not will tell you that after the first date they had serious doubts, but gave it another date. There is a book called "How to tell in 2 dates".. it is funny as well as practical. I've read over and over about the importance of making a list of character traits, as well as physical traits. I know that there is a certain amount of physical attractiveness that I desire as well. Ok..I'll get off my soap box now <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

FC ---

I'm one of those whose pictures are misleading --- not intentional at all. But it's the other way around. I look heavier in the pictures, and when I say that in a message - guys think I'm lying - and they dump me before they ever meet me. So I've learned to just send the picture and let reality hit where it will.

I'm not photogenic, so I never get a really good picture. I'm animated and I have a great personality. But, if you never see me in person - you don't know that. And I'm sure a lot of guys have felt 'mislead' in one way or another.... But it isn't intentional.

I had a date a while back who sent me a picture when his hair was all still coal black... Handsome man - but his hair is now gray almost all over. Incredibly good looking in gray hair!!! I didn't feel mislead - because I only have a few pictures online --- no scanner. I have access to a digital camera - but pictures of ME are just not what I put online. I hate my pictures.

As for your feeling of not being attracted. I've felt that --- for different reasons, sometimes the way they wear their hair - or a mustache. But I try at some point to connect with the person rather than their appearance. Appearances change frequently -

Step back and check her out from a different angle and realize that she may not know what to say - or she may be particularly photogenic and the difference is the photography - not the person.

Hugs,

Jan

Another thought...my feeling is if we can't come here to talk about the next step after divorce, in a healthy way..then we are truly missing out! There IS life after divorce, and what better place to give each other support than right here, where we are on the same page? So, bring it on!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Buhercwup <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ....I believe it was under JDQ? I was still in the healing process...way too cerebral! Beautiful horse...I have pictures with my handsome on match.com under Ellensburglady..not sure if I should post that? but, that's the easiest to show off mine. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Squeak...how on earth do you compete from Maui, with your competition horse in TX???? Pictures???? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I think it is helpful to be able to discuss dating here. None of my friends are at the dating stage - all are married, most with children. Strangely, I detect a bit of envy every once in a while from them, which is funny because I envy them! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Gecko, I wanted to tell you that I went to look at your horses on match, and I think what you've written about yourself is fabulous. I love your writing style. Good luck on your search!

Here is the big thing I've been thinking about lately. I was married for 8 years to someone who wasn't a good husband or father. I sacrificed my feelings constantly for the good of the family, and I accepted the fact that marriage was a lot of work and wasn't always a heady rush of those infatuation feelings. But now that I am out of that situation, I find myself not wanting to consider it again unless I know it is different. I guess my belief in a good marriage has wavered due to my experience, and I'm not sure what is realistic anymore.

That "in love" feeling fades, turning into mature love, trust, mutual goals, etc. (Or at least it is supposed to, unless your husband serially cheats on you with your friends!) So you lose that heady in love feeling, right? Every marriage does?

I know I'm not expressing myself well here, and I can't get to what my question really is. But I'll keep plowing along here hoping my point will surface. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I dated a man for almost a year until I ended the relationship in April. I ended it for reasons that weren't clear to me, except that I wasn't head over heels in love with him. I loved him, and I thought he would be a good husband and step father for my children. But it wasn't like I couldn't live without him, and I was worried that his feelings for me were much stronger than mine. He wanted to get married, and I knew that wasn't what I wanted at that point. I DO want to get remarried again. It would solve my whole "I love sex but am morally opposed to it before marriage" issue, and while I am very happy it just being the kids and I, I just always assumed I would find someone to share my life with again. I love being a wife, and I think (despite my failed marriage) that I am quite good at it.

But was my reluctance to consider marriage based on the fact that he wasn't the one, that it was too soon, or that I am too jaded and cynical? And when I say I want to be madly in love with my spouse, am I just like my ex H and his wonderful OW, living in their fog world? Where is the line between not wanting to settle again but being realistic about marriage and love? Any deep thoughts for me on this lovely August evening? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Krista

Oh..Krista...I know the feeling...it's hard most of the time when I see the ex knowing that he's moved far along in what seems to be bliss..money, travel, nice clothes...but then I know better. He doesn't call his own kids..sometimes not talking to them for a month, and that breaks my heart. He's still in the world about him, and now his wife. What we didn't have as a couple, he will often rub in my face..buying her flowers, gifts, ect., but I would rather be alone, than lonely in a marriage..and I know that it would have gone right back to that..we were together for 20 years! The dynamics that were between us are not the same as between him and his new wife. That has been a point that has allowed me to let go more and more.Others around me tell me I still have so much "influence..control.." over him based on his actions of trying to get to me. Pretty sad. I'm now at the stage that I can say..yeah, I may be good for him, BUT is he good for ME! I mean when a friend thinks I would be a good match with someone. WOW, what a concept! Good for ME? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
Thank you so much for your compliment on my profile! it means just as much, if not more that a woman thinks what I wrote is fabulous..you have no idea how far I've come to get there..it's always been there, but the marital relationship took it out of me, and he still tries..but, I'm learning to keep my heart and head above it.
You know...a friend's brother has been dating a woman 12 years his junior, for a year, and she just didn't know about their future till her small children went to stay with their dad for a month...in that time, she was able to be momentarily free of motherdom, and the woman inside was able to come forth..she realized that because she was able to have some time to actually think and feel, that she truly does love this man. So, maybe it was a season of not being able to just be a woman with thoughts and feelings? I'm like you...I don't want to just get married because it's the next obvious step..I'm willing to wait for the one I can't live without..after all, He's the one Who wrote the Song of Solomon,,,and HE'S the one who created you and me, and that includes enjoying who we are. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> So, don't settle for anything other than His best for you...I hope I didn't rattle on , but I'm all too familiar with the thought process and feelings you were writing about.
I hope I encouraged you in some small way...we are not just surviving..we ARE awesome, fabulous, incredible women! (gives me goosebumps!! when I look at what is available to us) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I, too, am a horse person. It began with collecting ceramic and plastic horses and galloping around neighing on the playground. I now have seven horses, but, since one of my horses fell on me and broke my leg last September, I haven't been riding as much.

I've been dating the same man for a year. We were friends for about a year before that. Both of us got "dumped." I haven't been out with anyone else since before my marriage and I was in a five year relationship before that.

Oh that feeling of being in love but knowing it isn't the right feeling. Doesn't it just get you at the heart!!!

I was reading the last couple of posts, and noting the comparison between thoughts and my feelings in the last couple of relationships I've had.

One lasted about two months, and at the end, I was devestated when he went back to his exwife. It was like I was abandoned and had my heart ripped out all at the same time - AGAIN. Yet, even in the moment of feeling that pain, I somehow knew he hadn't been "the one".

Another has been "going strong" as "friends" for about eleven months now. And neither of us feel any depth of attraction and yet we are so 'comfortable' together neither one of us wants to "break up". We aren't dating exclusively, and both of us are aware this is just the best friendship we have ever had, he's a great shopping partner, he co-parents my children very well, and we chatter like teenagers on the phone sometimes, but we are just friends. I feel nothing other than comfort and friendship when he hugs me. His "FAR TOO PRACTICAL" side, just literally would drive my "OVERTLY ROMANTIC" side crazy, so I enjoy his friendship, and accept the status (as does he) and we both date other people. But I have to say, it is nice to have someone who understands my feelings and isn't afraid to look me in the eye and tell me I'm WRONG, I need to change my ideas.

I think I can see how I would probably not be able to continue a friendship of this manner while married. However, I can also see opportunity for both of us to become married friends, since there has been no 'romantic' interest between us. I guess it would depend on spousal approval... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Has anyone else had that experience in dating? Where does that kind of experience lead? I kind of wonder.

Jan