Jan...what a blessing to have a male friend like that!! My ex mother in law had at least one male friend that went way back to college days. She would even travel with this friend. The wife, the ex motherinlaw's husband, and others were all college friends. After her husband died, she never remarried, or even dated, but still was able to have these friendships. So, even though that was a different generation, maybe you will have an understanding, confident mate who won't have any problems with this friendship? How very fortunate you are!!! I'm jealous <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

..I didn't realize my soul dream of having actual horses till I was 34! How sad...life is too short! When my ex got his lifelong dream which was an $8000 musical intrument...yes, you read that right...I said..I'm 34, and what is keeping me from realizing MY dream! So, I ended up with 2 at first, and although it has been VERY difficult at times, especially through the divorce, I never gave that part of me up...It is so important that we be true to who we are, and find someone who will not only allow us to be, but walk alongside us in those areas...whether they be horses, or sailing, or motorcycles! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I have a question that's been burning a hole in my head. I haven't hit the "D" panic button yet, but I was thinking if I have to head back out into that big sea of "other fish" I have this feeling of being tainted goods.

While I wasn't the one who had the A, something must have been wrong in our relationship (of course something was)that ended in D and it might not work the second time around.

That people may be less willing to date you etc because you have already been M, something they haven't and they want it to be the first time for both of you.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

I feel stigmatized as a divorced person. Maybe I put that on myself, but it is how I feel. I strongly believe marriage is forever, so I struggle with how I got here. I know I could have improved in many ways, but I also know I was a very good wife. I know things I would do differently, but I know there are a lot of things I would do the same. I am here because I chose someone to marry who didn't share the same beliefs I did about adultery, marriage, and right and wrong. I can't believe I misjudged him so much. It makes me hesitant to trust my judgement. And I do feel like damaged goods sometimes, and I still hate the word divorced. I know very few people who are divorced, and I hate it has happened to my family. I know good people who gave all they had to save their marriages - that would be the kind of person I would be drawn to. I know it is hard to look out and wonder what kind of person you might date, especially me with three young children, but that is where my trust in God comes in. If he has someone special for me, great. I've learned his gifts are much better than anything I can come up with! One thing I did do was wait for one year to date - before that, I wouldn't have been able to be good for anyone! Good luck - it is hard, scary, fun, and exciting to think of the future with someone new!
Krista

Well... half of all married people get divorced... so Krista, you're not alone at all. And the stigmatized feeling... that'll pass as you realize you're not alone. If anything you're not damaged goods. You're better than such. And you're not naive. You're not going to repeat history because you're going to learn and grow and be a better person. Other people will see this as a strength in you, a cherishable asset.

Go sic'em! ;-)

I must admit that I do feel a sense of stigma, although I try not to take that feeling seriously.

In my opinion, the fact that I am divorced should be a warning signal to any prospective marriage partner. There is no way to prevent my past marriage from affecting any future relationship, and some of the effects will be inevitably negative. But if she couldn't see (or get) past that, then the relationship really wouldn't be appropriate anyhow. And besides...not all of the effects of past marriage and divorce are (necessarily) negative. I for one believe that after what I've been through, I am capable of being a better husband than I otherwise would have been.

Hey all...
....to everyone who wrote about feeling like damaged goods...I, too , felt that during the early stages of this healing process..HOWEVER...I have accepted what is my responsibility, owned it, grew through it, and am beyond confident in who I am as a partner. Because I know what I am about..(we are still the soul person now that we were when we were children), I am able to be free to be that person. And that is what will draw my soul mate to me..because he will fall in love with who I am, and I will with him. If a person can't see past the divorce part..then they are misguided, and unrealistic. I would walk the other way. There is no grace in that viewpoint..and I won't live outside of grace. We have to grace ourselves FIRST, and then we will be ready for a relationship.
The fact that you are here..says a TREMENDOUS amount of the awesome individuals that we all are. We are taking responsibility for learning about relationships; how to have healthy ones..and there is someone who will appreciate who we are..that we take this seriously and with maturity.
I wish for all of you hope, peace, and joy in this journey. It's not easy, but the road upward is so much better than the road leading to bitterness and resentment. If that means taking a couple of years off..look at it as an investment in you!! and your future relations. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

FC,

It's a little late, but I also did go on a date a while ago with a girl who gave a picture, and it looked OK, but when she showed up, I didn't hardly recognize her and I was very disappointed. I know that I held back on eye contact and flirting during the dinner conversation because there was no physical attraction to her.

I felt guilty after the date, but then I didn't...Not to sound shallow, but if I had seen her in public, I wouldn't have given her a second look anyways, so there really isn't any difference in the end.

Physical attraction is important to me, and I am not afraid to admit it. The girl doesn't have to be a 10, but she has to be attractive to me. Remember, many 10s open their mouths and immediately become 6s. It works the other way too. However, a complete misrepresentation of appearance lowers the rating.

I don't know...I'm still trying to figure all of this out too.

At my age, there won't be many people around to date who haven't been married.

As a woman with a 10yo and a 12yo, I don't know that I would want someone who hadn't been married. They would have to learn how to be married and how to parent two very different children at the same time. I don't know that that would be a good idea.

But who am I kidding. I've had so few dates in the nearly 5 years since the divorce that it isn't funny. With the exception of the wonderful Diplomat. But he lives soooooooo far away. sigh.

I have to admit that after a few dates, I thought that I would want a man who has children for the same reasons as Cinderella. I did subscribe to match.com, and I have had quite a few dates..meeting alot of nice men. Only one has become much more, and he's never been married. I am enjoying being in a developing relationship with a mature man, financially secure,who has most of the dating game behind him, and is ready for a mature relationship. We are having a lot of fun together as adults, and not the high school dating routine, which seems to be the norm anymore. While I have been enjoying going out on dates,,,it's not the dating I really enjoy. It's the going out! There just hasn't been much around here where I live, which is a fairly rural place, and I've been out of the relationship field for some time. I am confident in where I am in life, and came to a place that I wanted to be able to enjoy some adult time. The response I have had on the website has done an unbelievable amount for my womanly self esteem, unlike what I had in my 20 years with the ex. But, I have only been able to enjoy this next step because I did take the time to allow the healing to take place, which no matter how badly we want to move forward, just has to happen..like a broken leg..if you start to use it too soon, one risks permantly damaging it. I wanted a healthy relationship, and I knew I couldn't have that till my heart was healthy. As long as one is VERY honest with oneself as to where they are emotionally, dating can help the process. I had a friendship with someone in another state, and just having someone to talk to helped those times when the ex would flaunt his relationship in my face...cutting a rose from MY bushes to take to his girlfriend..etc. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
So, I have learned that the right one may not have been married..the way I look at that is no ex's to deal with..I have his full attention! Blended families are very difficult, and my girls already have to deal with that at their dad's. This new relationship is nice, because he isn't being pulled by "his own children". That isn't to say that if this doesn't work out, that I will only date someone who doesn't have kids, etc. It's just that I'm pleasantly surprised by the turn of events! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I haven't posted here in a very very looooonnnnggg time... my divorce was final May 3, 2002. We lived apart for about 4 years before that, I think (is it a good sign that the details are hazy?), and it has been a long slow road for me. I have avoided meeting anyone new until recently, as I was just not emotionally ready for any type of relationship. Now I am not exactly avoiding meeting anyone but have no clue HOW to meet anyone new.

I have found this thread to be refreshing, entertaining, informative and frustrating - it's comforting to know it's NOT JUST ME!

I have been very close friends over the last three years with a man I've worked with for 13 years (and I'll be completely honest about the fact that I'm crazy about him and would have been thrilled if he'd been interested back), and we've talked about the whole how men see things and how women see things. I hope that I've helped him understand woman as much as he's helped me ... well, not exactly UNDERSTAND men, but see how they look at things.

One of the things I've never understood about men is that they won't see women friends as potential mates. It's something that has frustrated me about my friend, because we have TONS of things in common - similar life philosophies, very similar interests, similar life goals, yet there is some reason that I've been discounted as a possible relationship partner. I'm not sure exactly what the reason is, and to be honest, I'm not sure I want to know. It could be anything from the fact that I'm 12 years older than him to the fact that I'm not exactly Twiggy (anyone here remember who Twiggy is? That in itself probably dates me a bit). It could be the fact that he knows me probably as well as any man could know me without living with me or sleeping with me. It's even more frustrating because the more I get to know him, the more I care for him. And that makes the entire friendship an emotional rollercoaster... But, I digress.

My point, or my path, or at least the general direction in which I was going with this, is that, as a woman who made some very fundamental mistakes in her marriage, I feel that I've learned an important lesson about what I should not do next time. One of those things is that I should not judge who a person is by what they look like. As some of you have said, there cannot be repulsion, but not everyone is a fashion model, nor does everyone want to be. And sometimes, a person you find unattractive in one circumstance can be very attractive in another. My friend, for example - for the first 9-10 years that I knew him, I didn't know him well, and I thought he was cocky and arrogant, and I certainly never found him attractive. I didn't despise him, but I didn't ever think I'd feel this way about him, either. Since we've become close friends, I find him very attractive - he makes me laugh, he loves to talk about just about anything...

So ... why is it that men and women have such different "standards" when looking for a relationship? In following this thread, I see that quite a few women are wondering the same thing.

As for my friendship holding me back from meeting people (don't pretend that it hasn't crossed your mind), I can honestly say that, yes, it may have to some extent. However, there hasn't exactly been a line at my door, either - it's not like I've refused dates.

But I'm feeling like it is time for me to take some new baby steps (that's just how I do things at first). Trouble is, I fear the same thing will happen to me (if I actually GET a date ever) that sj has described... and that the first impression will be the last. So, lest I get hurt, I hesitate.

Have I made one bit of coherent sense here? Or have I simply rambled on ... Whichever, I think I've just made a significant step just by posting here after such a long absence from the forums. And I'm proud of me for being here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I had an interesting thing happen that might help some of you out and/or at least contribute to this thread. I had met this great girl but a few obvious issues... anyways - don't we all have a few obvious issues? She's major rebound after a 3 year engagement/dating/living together relationship and still sees the guy at work... I don't know the full story there yet.

After about the 8th date, she wanted to have the R talk, as in Relationship. She said that because her fiance had broken her heart, she wanted me to promise I would never break hers. I remember blinking and then gently noted that there's always that risk in any relationship... We decided that things just wouldn't work out. Well, after a two week chilling period, I guess she came to terms with "my approach" of non-exclusive dating. So, we've gone out several more times and without missing a beat picked right back up.

Well, on this last date, I could tell she was getting really really really close to telling me she loves me. I hate to say this, but if she had, I think I would have blinked again and asked her, "Why? How could you possibly love me?" Not the most romantic response is it? I'm open to love but, to be bluntly honest, I don't love her and after everything I've gone through (one of my issues I guess) I doubt her ability to recognize love. Of course, I doubt my ability to recognize love too.

You've got to keep in mind that you're dealing with your own perceptions about yourself and your divorce... and THE OTHER PERSON is dealing with their own perceptions about your divorce. If you remember back in the day when we were all on the Just Found Out board, infidelity is an ego bomb... it destroys and debases our self-esteem; it wipes out a very real but very naive sense of trust in the world. You have to rebuild that and until it's rebuilt... we're going to operate in a different "mode" than someone who has sure footing with their world around them.

A divorce is a great excuse to be a little crazier, a little bolder than you might otherwise be. After all we've gone through... what is left to be scared of? Rejection? HAAAAA!!! I laugh in the face of rejection and so should we all!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Lyxa:
<strong>A divorce is a great excuse to be a little crazier, a little bolder than you might otherwise be. After all we've gone through... what is left to be scared of? Rejection? HAAAAA!!! I laugh in the face of rejection and so should we all!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Bolder? Yes. Crazier? I don't think so. I believe our boldness should be coupled with greater wisdom (i.e. lessons learned) rather than greater irresponsibility.

When I found myself falling for someone new, I asked myself what there was to be afraid of. I discovered that I was not afraid of rejection, and I was not afraid to trust again. After all, I had already lived through my worst nightmare, and with God's help I had survived not just intact, but as a better person than before. I knew exactly what I was risking now, and so I could be more confident than ever that the rewards of love were worth the risks.

But I did find something to be scared of: I was terribly afraid that I might inadvertently hurt the person I loved. (One of the reasons I am so grateful for the friendship which has developed is that it has restored my confidence in myself. I no longer have to struggle with the suspicion that my mere existence is poison to those I care about.)

Frankly, Lyxa, I'm a little puzzled about why you are continuing the relationship you described. On the surface at least, it doesn't look like it's doing her any good.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by terri:
<strong>One of the things I've never understood about men is that they won't see women friends as potential mates. It's something that has frustrated me about my friend, because we have TONS of things in common - similar life philosophies, very similar interests, similar life goals, yet there is some reason that I've been discounted as a possible relationship partner. I'm not sure exactly what the reason is, and to be honest, I'm not sure I want to know. It could be anything from the fact that I'm 12 years older than him to the fact that I'm not exactly Twiggy... So ... why is it that men and women have such different "standards" when looking for a relationship?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do they have different standards, really? I'm not sure what standards you are referring to. The physical standards?

I wish I could say that physical attractiveness doesn't matter to me. But I can't say that, because I don't know. Objectively, I believe that it is foolish to marry a woman for her physical beauty, because her appearance is going to change: everybody ages. I suspect that if I truly loved a woman, I would continue to find her beautiful, whatever happened. Experientially, I have women friends who are not exactly shaped like Twiggy, and I have noticed that the better friends they have become, the more attractive they have become in my eyes - presumably because their physical characteristics have become associated in my mind with all the other things I appreciate about them.

But on the other hand, the only two women with whom I have ever "fallen in love" were (and are) quite physically attractive by just about any objective standard. My ex-wife is still at least as beautiful (and as thin) as the day we met. So I can't really know for sure.

Or is it a different standard you're talking about? Like the idea that friends and mates are mutually exclusive categories? That's certainly not an idea exclusive to one sex. And I don't think it's a pervasive idea either. It is quite common for friendships to develop into romance, and in fact I understand that those kinds of relationships statistically have the greatest longevity.

So what causes the transition? It's hard to say. Does anybody really understand what causes chemistry between two people? Or what prevents it?

I think context can be a part of it. We often fail to see something because we aren't expecting to see it. I would think that an age gap of 12 years would be that kind of obstacle. Certainly I never anticipated developing a serious romantic interest in a woman 15 years younger than myself. I remember the first time I met her (a couple of years ago now). I came away saying to myself "Wow! That's quite a girl!" (I don't think anyone else has ever made such a strong first impression on me) - but the idea of a relationship with her never crossed my mind. Admittedly that was in large part because it was still barely a year after my wife had left me, and I was still very emotionally entangled with her. But even without that aspect, I simply assumed that this new woman was too young. I don't know if that assumption could ever have been challenged if I hadn't ended up in a class she was teaching, which permitted me to see her in an entirely different hierarchical light. And I still might never have "noticed" her in "that way" if it hadn't been for a series of singular events that I interpreted as God shaking me and saying "Look, you bonehead, how much more do I have to do to get you to see what's right in front of you!?"

I think another piece of the puzzle has to do with compatibility: it's not enough to be compatible! While strong compatibility in areas such as life philosophies and goals, lifestyle and values, etc., is extremely important, I think complementarity is also important. I don't want to marry someone who is too much like me; I want someone whose personality and interests and ways of seeing things are going to help me keep growing in ways I could not do on my own. This is a tricky proposition, because the differences can't be too great, or I won't be able to relate at all. And to further complicate matters, I am an introvert, which means that being with other people - however much I enjoy it! - typically takes energy out of me. So I want to marry someone with just the right personality characteristics to create a synergistic feedback loop such that I gain energy from the relationship - without actually taking it from my wife!

As you can imagine, this is a very tall order to fill. It means that there are many women whom I can (and do) like and admire and appreciate, but whom I simply cannot view as prospective marriage partners.

Now, I doubt that most men have thought these matters through in the way I have at a conscious level, but I imagine that it's pretty common for this sort of evaluation to be going on at the subconscious level.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>As for my friendship holding me back from meeting people (don't pretend that it hasn't crossed your mind), I can honestly say that, yes, it may have to some extent. However, there hasn't exactly been a line at my door, either - it's not like I've refused dates.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, there are a couple of ways in which my friendship is potentially holding me back. First, there's the time investment. But, I haven't met any other woman with whom I want to build a relationship. (Or rather, I haven't met any other single women. Most of my friendships are with married couples. So, I actually do spend time building relationships with other women.) If I do meet another single woman who interests me, then I will have to think about re-prioritizing; but in the meantime the only other thing I could do would be to pro-actively look for a potential mate, either by moving into new social circles (at the expense of the ones I currently enjoy and value), or by using a service such as eHarmony. (Although I haven't paid them anything, I did fill out their personality profile, and they found three potential matches for me. I was not impressed with their personality evaluation, and I have not been able to develop any desire to communicate with the women they identified.)

The other way in which my friendship is potentially holding me back is that I am so impressed with this new lady friend that the bar for any other relationship has been raised extremely high. I started with an almost prohibitive set of criteria, and then I met someone who seems to be all that and more. It's one thing to admit that one's standards are unrealistic and then adjust them. It's quite another thing to know that one's standards can be met, and then to settle for less...

Gnomme, I did mean the physical standards. I do understand that physical appearance is important - but men seem less able to get past that standard and find the attractiveness that comes from within. I am not at all unattractive (unless you catch me with my hair standing out in all directions when I first get up in the morning - that might actually be SCARY! LOL) and I am regularly told that I look like I'm in my early 30's (I'm going to be 44 next week) - but I am heavy, and I have fought with that all of my life. I am also a very intelligent woman with a wide variety of interests that would certainly complement the particular man of whom I speak, and likely quite a few others. I don't mold myself to what I deem are another person's expectations, but neither am I averse to trying something that I previously didn't care for just to see if in new circumstances I might change my mind, and I am generally quite willing to try something completely new. Believe me, my friend and I have some relatively major differences in opinions and beliefs that do make for some spirited discussions. And we have both gotten quite angry at one another on a few occasions - and took the opportunities to practice our newly learned better communication skills. For me, that has been a major step - my mother still seems to think that my father is supposed to read her mind about her wants/needs, and to always want to do everything her way. So I never really learned the skill of conveying my thoughts, wants, needs in a relationship - until my marriage fell apart, I believed that the man is supposed to just KNOW what the woman wants. From an intelligent woman, that sounds positively brain damaged, I know - but it is just one of those relationship beliefs that we sort of absorb without ever really thinking about it.

I know that there are plenty of women out there who place a high emphasis on what a man looks like, but I do believe that men are far less flexible in this respect. I can't tell you how many online dating profiles I've read that specify "heavy women need not respond" or even things as rude as "no [censored] please". It's disillusioning and discouraging that few men seem to want to take a chance on who I am instead of who I look like.

Here I go rambling again ... that's what happens when I'm up past my bed time <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thanks for the response!

Hazy details might mean a few different things ---

you could be operating in a fog of disullusionment, or you could be far enough past the real pain of the relationship that you are holding a new screen for the next relationship.

Gnome ---

I so do understand that desire not to hurt another person. I have had two long standing friendships, and neither of them will become 'romantically' involved in another relationship - because they are affraid of hurting the 'next' person.

Both are very selfless persons, and their relationships 'broke' over events in their lives, rather than infidelity or whatever. In one case I've talked to both the wife and husband, and both are very leary of hurting someone else. Neither is healing from their own past hurts.

I wonder at times if that is the issue --- we are so hurt within, that we don't want anyone else to feel the way we do. So, we avoid loving in order to avoid hurting?

OUCH...

I know I occasionally HURT - and I don't want to hurt someone else. But I'm not willing to live alone and lonely just because I might get hurt again. I'd rather love and be hurt - than never love again... isn't there a song out about that?

Jan

Just popping in to say Hi to Terri! Good to "see" you girl! I am thrilled to see you healing and happy.

Maybe you could give update on a new thread? Does K know you are here?

I am well and getting married next month. I found a truly terrific guy and am happy.

Take care and let us know how you are doing,
Starpony

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by terri:
<strong>I can't tell you how many online dating profiles I've read that specify "heavy women need not respond" or even things as rude as "no [censored] please". It's disillusioning and discouraging that few men seem to want to take a chance on who I am instead of who I look like.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maybe the percentage of such men really is small. I don't know. But one disadvantage of the beauty queen is that she attracts all kinds of men, and so she has the burden of needing to weed out those who only care about her looks, versus those who care about her.

I suspect that as long as you are reasonably attractive, your appearance is not a serious impediment. I think that, typically, it matters to a man that a woman demonstrates she is making an effort with regard to her appearance - and to her health! - but any man who makes physical beauty his top priority is probably too shallow to be a good prospect for anyone.

Terri, have you ever talked to this guy about how you feel?

sj, I do think the hazy details are a good thing - the situation has been relegated to the past where it belongs, and I feel that I can start moving forward.

Starpony, Congratulations! I'm so glad to hear your news! I don't know if K knows I'm here, I've not posted anywhere in so long, I'm surprised anyone remembers me! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> There's really not much for me to update ... I don't think enough for an entire thread <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Gnome, even Dr. Harley points out that beauty or physical appearance is one of the top emotional needs for men, and other relationship information bears that out as well. And you're right, someone who makes that his number one priority is pretty shallow, most likely, and that's NOT what I'm looking for.

And the answer to your question is: he knows how I feel. We've only talked about it once or twice since I let him know and he was very clear that while he was flattered, he wasn't interested in me in the same way. He cares a great deal about me and doesn't ever want to hurt me, but ... It's an awkward topic to discuss at this point - and it would really be beating a dead horse anyhow. Also, he is currently dating someone.

I do think that one of the reasons he would not consider me for a relationship other than that of friend is my age and how that fits in with his life plan. He wants children. I'd love to have one or two myself, BUT ... at my age, there's no guarantee it would happen. But that's just my own musings - as I said before, I'm not sure I would really want to know. And I don't think that the goal of having children driving your choice of who you would date is such a bad thing. My mother did tell me something when I was young that I remember well and I feel is important - don't have a romantic relationship with someone you would not consider marrying. My take on this is that you might just hurt that person if they cared for you enough to want a permanent relationship and you knew all along that you wouldn't want that.

Seems like relationships should be so much simpler than they are!

Terri,

I am 34 very soon to be 35. My ex was 5 years older, and quite truthfully, much more immature than I ever was. However, some things were very apparent, and although she never spoke about them (at least when we could have had a chance to work on them or so I could understand why she felt how she did), and I am not quite sure just how truthful she was, because she was quite full of lies during the conversation. She said that one of the 'reasons' she decided to have affairs and leave was that "We hadn't MADE IT. All my other friends have the big houses and nice lives, but we don't." Now this was after her affair with a 27 year old married father of two. But the fact is, that somewhere in her psyche, she believed that it was reasonable that she should have MORE at her stage of life that WE had at the time. Somewhere within her, she rationalized that at almost 40, she should be in a different place than we were.

In some ways I agree. We had spent the last 10 years working on my education. She stepped out during the last year, stating the above.

But what I am trying to say is... AGE DOES MATTER. I know we all think it doesn't, and truthfully, 5 years one way or the other is minimal. However, it put her in a different spot in her 'life' than I was capable of putting her, and it justified her behavior, even if only in her mind.

12 years in your early 40's is alot different than 12 years in your early 30's. It just is. Does that mean that there is no hope for a meaningful and loving relationship? Absolutely not. But it doesn't sound like you are letting your friend have his own ideas about what he wants. It is almost like you are finding reasons that he shouldn't feel the way he does. Your weight, his age, children, "MEN in general", etc.

Allow him to just be a great friend. At least that is my opinion. If you compare everyone you meet to him or pine away for him, you are holding yourself back, and you might end up loosing his friendship.

These are just my thoughts. I am more in his shoes than in yours. I know that I wouldn't even consider someone 12 years older, because of what I have learned. Each person is different. I understand that. But certain situations are the same. My opinion is that even though I am absolutely sure that there is a wonderful 45 year old woman out there that would be a fantastic wife for me, the chances of problems are much greater than someone 30-35 or so.

I am not trying to harp on you. I am not trying to say you are wrong. I am just giving you my feelings since I am somewhat in a similar circumstance as he. There are just certain parameters that give him the best chance at a good life and marriage. And to start off with a potential strain is not what I would want to do. Again, I know it doesn't mean doom, but it sure isn't a 'set up' for success.

Just my feelings. I am sure GDP will have some different feelings on the situation.

<small>[ August 23, 2003, 04:28 PM: Message edited by: Formerly Confused ]</small>