I have been (once again) portrayed as someone that I am not. If you will please read the
copied and posted threads below. If you would, please let me or BtrayedHsbnd what your
thoughts and/or suggestions are. I suggested (to help get us back to communication) to
IM each other. Start an online affair. I also, again, agreed to see along with him, him alone and me alone, a Psychiatrist, not a Marriage Counselor.

This is so emotional, for both of us. We both have hurt unintentionally and intentionally
each other just to get our way and force the other to accept behavior of the other as being
acceptable behavior. We obviously love one another, it sounds sick when it is on paper, but we are truly in love and want this mess to work.
**************************************************

Author Topic: Determined to Divorce but need help.

BtrayedHsbnd
Junior Member
Member # 28865

posted July 12, 2003 08:19 PM
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I have been a faithful husband for 11 years. I even survived an affair my WW had for 9 months in 96. I thought all was fine and that we were Okay, even with her traveling out of town 2 nights a week for her job. It all changed last May when I discovered she has been having an affair with her boss, 13 years her junior. She still denies it, even after I caught her in numerous lies, and found the all telling emails between them. I couldn't live with her lies when they kept me from sleeping, eating and functioning. I filed and moved out. She is still in denial that this is happening. She wants to hold on to the house and assests until "I give in and return." I can't do it, I realize cheating has been her life pattern and at 40, I don't want to waste anymore good love and commitment on the wrong one for me. I am determined to go through with this, I just need some "emotional support" from you all with the same situations. Thanks for this site!

--------------------
Me 40, WS 46
Married 1993
1st D-Day 2/96-10/96
2nd D-Day 5/03
OM 33, Her Boss
He Separated in March
We have no children together
I have 19yo Son from prior
whom I raised.
My Son left because of WW
I filed for divorce realizing
this is her life pattern
She will not be honest w/me
continues to lie and be in denial
Email:signmaker@classicnet.net

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Posts: 9 | Registered: Jul 2003 | IP: Logged |

newleaf
Junior Member
Member # 28918

posted July 12, 2003 08:32 PM
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I don't know about the laws in your state but in CA if you move out you are at a real disadvantage. If you truly want to go through with this. The first thing you need to do is protect yourself. I'm all for trying to make things work if that's possible but life is to short to put up with someone who won't make the effort. I just got divorced at 40 after 18yrs and my life is overall much better. Do what you need to do and take care of yourself first.

--------------------
40YO DM MARRIED 18YR

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Posts: 2 | Registered: Jul 2003 | IP: Logged |

Faith4me
Member
Member # 19337

posted July 12, 2003 09:18 PM
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Have you two tried counseling, and working on emotional needs. She needs to be honest, and if she is not honest, get the PI and bring the source of her contact to her nose, and then see what happens. The wayward spouse is in such denial, selfishness, and not caring about you. This will continue on till they see the light. To divorce is difficult. I am divorced as last month, for one month. I will not say it is easier, but it is better knowing that he is not on me all the time. Coercing me with ugly words, unthougthfulness, and now the kids can see that things are going to be really tough.

I miss the man I married, but who he is not, is not the man I married. He is by the way that fell for a bimbo of a woman who this was her 2nd sexual affair in her marriage of 28 years. She dumped him, and he dumped me. But I am okay with that. I didn't want to live with a man denying his lies, cheating and dishonesty. When and if he ever comes out of the dark selfish mode, maybe something can be accomplished.

Please look into making a go of this marriage. God hates marriage, and it is not going to be easy for a long time. There is plenty of hurt between the two of you and plenty of pain. It does get easier as time goes on, but if one could turn the clock back, many of us would of seen the marriage and its problems and helped the marriage. Your wife is not getting something met, emotional need of some sort. Why don't you two sit down and talk awhile about what you loved in each other in the beginning when you dated. Find out what you thought the two of you saw in each other. And start from there. And with counseling. There are very good counselors out there. Find one that takes notes, and one that really listens. One that has a plan, so when you come in the next session, there was homework, and talk and the two had to work at homework. If anyone thinks all marriages just slide through, they are nuts. The Harleys talk about the times they had, and how each one of them gave to the other. That is waht marriage is about, give and take. There is no marriage out there that has not been a marriage of work. NOT ONE!!!!! Work on your marriage, and try with 100% committment. Get your wife to work, and get a 100% committment fromher. Good luck. You came to the right boards. And keep what some of the people here say with a grain of salt. Get the Harley books, and read them. Do a Plan A. Take Care.
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Posts: 1006 | Registered: May 2002 | IP: Logged |

BtrayedHsbnd
Junior Member
Member # 28865

posted July 12, 2003 11:31 PM
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I appreciate the advise, but I have already tried Plan A, for years. We have been to Marriage Counslers, but she never faces the real issues, only the symptoms. This has been my Wifes lifelong pattern, even in a previous 10 year marriage she admitted to me she cheated. I can't change her after she/s been this way for 46 years. I am just having problems dealing with the loneliness, and fear of the future. I have spent the last 11 years married and faithful. I just don't know what to do with myself I guess.
Thank you for reading and posting everyone.

--------------------
Me 40, WS 46
Married 1993
1st D-Day 2/96-10/96
2nd D-Day 5/03
OM 33, Her Boss
He Separated in March
We have no children together
I have 19yo Son from prior
whom I raised.
My Son left because of WW
I filed for divorce realizing
this is her life pattern
She will not be honest w/me
continues to lie and be in denial
Email:signmaker@classicnet.net

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Posts: 9 | Registered: Jul 2003 | IP: Logged |

tomaz
Member
Member # 18946

posted July 13, 2003 12:34 AM
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My advice is to see a therapist who can help you deal with your emotional issues. I am sorry to see you in this situation but you need to believe that there is life after divorce.
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Posts: 240 | Registered: Apr 2002 | IP: Logged |

Bellevue
Member
Member # 5503

posted July 13, 2003 03:57 PM
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Betrayed,

Just posting to offer my suppport. Here's a suggestion: Find a divorce support group, and attend their meetings.

I think you are very brave. It's not right to live a lie, to compromise yourself. Your wife has broken her vows, broken the marriage covenant. Life will get better for you.

--------------------
Belle, Domestic Goddess

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Posts: 1104 | Registered: Apr 2000 | IP: Logged |

BtrayedHsbnd
Junior Member
Member # 28865

posted July 13, 2003 08:29 PM
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Thanks Belle,
Here is the funny thing though. A friend of mine and I have ran an ad on the local cable to organize a Divorce Support Group. We are in a town of only about 9,000 people, and even with all of the divorces and infidelity going on around here we've had no response! I don't know if their afraid or what! When and if we do get a group together we will probably sit here at the shop and get online with marriage builders for support! Until then it's just me and all of you folks! Thanks so much for this site!

--------------------
Me 40, WS 46
Married 1993
1st D-Day 2/96-10/96
2nd D-Day 5/03
OM 33, Her Boss
He Separated in March
We have no children together
I have 19yo Son from prior
whom I raised.
My Son left because of WW
I filed for divorce realizing
this is her life pattern
She will not be honest w/me
continues to lie and be in denial
Email:signmaker@classicnet.net

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Posts: 9 | Registered: Jul 2003 | IP: Logged |

tossedwave
Member
Member # 10809

posted July 13, 2003 09:18 PM
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Betrayed----there is a lot of support here. I, too, wish that I could find a divorce support group cause it would be a way of getting to know some single people. Mostly all my friends are married and busy with their families so I know exactly what you are going through. You now have the equivalent of a major empty nest. Living all by yourself after living with a spouse is just an amazing challenge. I do not like it but it is better than being betrayed, lied to, watching the sneaking around and the indifference to committed marriage.

Just keep growing and learning about yourself so no matter what happens in your new life you will know who you are and what your needs are. Then maybe someday you will find someone who you can learn what her needs are. Just try to recover from this crisis before you venture into the world of dating. Emotions are tricky and can be so deceiving if you don't understand yourself.

TW

--------------------
I am BS/D-day 4/01
Married 34 years
Separated 9/01
WS moved back 5/02 to work on M.
WS unwilling to rebuild cause it means change and giving up OW.
I moved out of our home (which I waited 25 yrs for) on 11/02 and
legally separated.

Phil 3:13....Forgetting what is behind and STRAINING toward what is ahead.

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Posts: 468 | Registered: Jun 2001 | IP: Logged |

BtrayedHsbnd
Junior Member
Member # 28865

posted July 13, 2003 09:59 PM
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Thanks Tossed,
You sure have that right it is tuff being alone after 1/4 of my life has been with someone. It's like they say Divorce is as traumatic as a death in the family. Most of my friends are married too, so I know what you mean. My Wife and I used to do alot of things together, garage sales, flea markets, gardening, working on the house. But I realize she had another life apart from that with someone else. Our "togetherness" didn't feel sincere the last year or so, I felt I was only being "humored" and used to complete the restoration of our home. Tired of sharing the person I was devoted to. I haven't soured on "All Women", I don't generalize. Actually I think My Wife had more of the mans role and I was a "Milquetoast" and had the part of the woman. I guess I was a "Good Hearted Man in Love with a Good timin' Woman!" Oh well, I hope to preserve this Love that I gave for the right person when they come into my life. I'm not looking for it, but it would be nice if I didn't have to wait for another 10 years. These are scary times to be single. But also scary times to be with a cheating spouse! Thanks for the support all...

--------------------
Me 40, WS 46
Married 1993
1st D-Day 2/96-10/96
2nd D-Day 5/03
OM 33, Her Boss
He Separated in March
We have no children together
I have 19yo Son from prior
whom I raised.
My Son left because of WW
I filed for divorce realizing
this is her life pattern
She will not be honest w/me
continues to lie and be in denial
Email:signmaker@classicnet.net

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Posts: 9 | Registered: Jul 2003 | IP: Logged |

SadEyes
Member
Member # 760

posted July 14, 2003 12:29 AM
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most churches are doing divorce recovery groups
for support it is a good place to go..safe too,
you will learn at the same time and get better
emotionally..check your local newspaper listen to a christian radio station in your area..they announce the churches that have special things like the groups..most meet wed..or thurs..so check with the church of your choice call them..

there are other things.do you like boating..
go take a class on boating..
join a sailing club
join the YMCA
go play basketball
join a softball league
join a bowling leauge..

don't sit home get out

get a bike go ride around the bay
meet people..have fun..
take care..
stop sitting home there will be plenty of years left to sit around..
for now go and see stuff go to local zoo
museams..there are lots of things to do, it is a matter of finding out what interests you.

go back to school..
take an art class..

tutor someone to read..this is a rewarding thing..

enjoy giving back to your community..

go to promise keepers meeting..
Keep on Keeping on...

GO FLY A KITE!!!
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Posts: 542 | Registered: Jan 99 | IP: Logged |

Notguilty
Junior Member
Member # 29236

posted July 28, 2003 08:20 PM
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I am the wife of this person. Here is the other 1/ 2 that was not revealed. Whirlwind
romance. I was independent, single attractive woman who owned my own home and a 16
year career under my belt. He and his 8 year old son moved in from his Mothers trailer
from a small town to a large city. Yes, I knew he had emotional and financial problems
and was a heavy drinker. That did not matter, I was willing to take this step. He was a
good hearted man. However, instead of trying to move ahead in his normal routine of his
past, this became so much easier for him. He had a live in baby sitter, a financial income
that did not require motivation and the ease of bars within a few blocks of home. After
about 20 times of wondering where he was when I got home from work, and his son was
there, saying numerous excuses either Dad is across the Street ( yes drinking in the home
with the wife, alone) Dad will be back real soon, on and on. Well I finally had it. I found
out one night where he was, AT the Bar, I took his son down to the bar, and he saw me
pull up. I dropped his son off with him and told him to baby-sit your son yourself. This
drinking CONSTANTLY occurred. He continued to accuse me of stepping out, which
was not true. He made little or no attempt to try to get out of the drinking rut. I got FED
UP. I filed for Divorce and did step out to an “old flame”, just as this BtrayedHsbnd did a
couple of days ago (which I will tell you about later) and “That” old flame did not turn
out to be the “security and relief” I thought would be there.

From that time to now, it has been a constant battle with trying to prove to him I am not
having an affair. Now mind you, during this time he has kept on drinking, having friends
come to his place of business, getting so drunk either coming home wee hours in the AM
or not at all. ALL the while I was in the home with his son and he knowingly this hurt
both of us. He was out drinking with his buddies the night of his sons prom. He promised
his son the truck to go to the prom. Well no sight of BtrayedHsbnd,, until the next day.
So his Son did not get to go to the prom. BtrayedHsbnd decided to disappear for 3 days in
a row in May, which happened to include the day his sons Graduated from High School.

BtrayedHsbnd had a PI follow me and found nothing. He found a dinner receipt that I
paid for dinner with my boss and there from that moment on was “affair”. He called my
boss in the middle of the night 7 times within a couple of days, his estranged wife of who
they were trying to get things worked out. A hell of a time.

The Old Flame incident I mentioned earlier, he had been chatting with, telling all of our
problems to (along with MANY MANY other people) happened to be married. I found
this out by BtrayedHsbnd. He was talking to me alcohol induced. He told me enough for
me to be able to find out who she was. I searched the Internet and found her and her
husbands information. I called her husband the next morning and filled him in on what
was going on. Come to find out, her husband DID know that an old high school friend
has been emailing her, but that was about it. I gave him the information I had and he took
it from there. According to BtrayedHsbnd his old flame told him the same day I called
her husband, I called her husband and told him and she felt so bad about hurting her
husband. That affair ended that day (supposedly).

Now, even with all of this this, I still love him and want this to work and I am willing to
work on this, but as this site states “the drug or alcohol addiction, will prevent them from
resolving their marital conflicts because it controls them. It must be eliminated before
marital therapy has any hope of being successful.”

Not guilty of affair
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I suggest that you, Notguilty, make a commitment to attend a few Alanon meetings. If you don’t know what Alanon is, it’s the “family” branch of Alcoholics Anonymous. There should be contact information for the organization in your phone book.

If your husband drinks as much as you say he does, he may very well be an alcoholic, which will make most of what you would learn about marriage here at MB worthless for the moment. As you already stated, even Dr. Harley, creator of MB principles, says that MB does not work in situations of possible drug abuse. You must attend to the problem of the drug abuse first and then put MB into action after.

If Alanon turns out not to be the right place for you, the program might be able to point you in another direction. If alcoholism is part of the problem, Alanon will give you much better coping and recovery skills/information than MB.

Good luck to you. I will be praying. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ July 29, 2003, 09:22 AM: Message edited by: cat_lover ]</small>

I have attended a few of the sessions. They were teaching that this problem is his and not mine. I have tried to stay on that road, but, it is so hard to do so when even being around it,flows into being my problem. Thank you.

notguilty,

I'm surprised anyone responded to your post, but I'm not surprised that you dismissed Cat with such short shrift.

There is no instant recovery. Your situation didn't get the way it is overnight and it won't get healed overnight. Do it yourself kits are notoriously ineffective.

There is no need at all to tell us "your side of the story"! We are not here to pass judgement on either of you. This board isn't a battleground, the folks here are struggling to try to get through a difficult situation, and they try to support each other.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Bumperii:
notguilty,

I'm surprised anyone responded to your post, but I'm not surprised that you dismissed Cat with such short shrift..</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why are you surprised I replied?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There is no instant recovery. Your situation didn't get the way it is overnight and it won't get healed overnight. Do it yourself kits are notoriously ineffective..</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do it yourself kits? What are you referring too? I've lost you. Excuse me if I'm making an assumption. Have you spoken about this subject on another thread?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There is no need at all to tell us "your side of the story"! We are not here to pass judgment on either of you. This board isn't a battleground, the folks here are struggling to try to get through a difficult situation, and they try to support each other.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There may not be need for us to hear the "other side of the story" but I think it's important for notguilty to tell it if it makes her feel better. It's been my observation in life that most people will not listen very well to advice if they think that is advice is based on false information about their character and actions.

<small>[ July 30, 2003, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: cat_lover ]</small>

Hi Cat,

The reason I was surprised that anyone responded was because notguilty's post was so long and it walked all over btrayed's thread. It is very difficult for a newcomer to get people here to read those long threads. They will take time to read the longer posts if they know you.

Yes I have written extensively on this board. I've been here longer than most of the contributers, I'm the real old fart, I have underwear older than most of folks here. Bye the bye, don't search the net for "old farts". I did that the other day and wound up getting infected with the "backdoor trojan" computer virus.

When I saw the extent of ng's post, I knew she just wanted to talk, she wasn't interested in listening to what others had to say. When I read that, I had the sense that she wasn't looking for help, she was looking to dispute btrayed husband's posts. With folks like that, if they do want help, they want it on their own terms. That doesn't work. That is how we wound up here, trying to do it "my way". The obvious rhetorical response is: "If your way of doing things was so good, what the heck are you doing here?" If she really wants to reestablish communication with btrayed, she will need to get the assistance of a professional. The Harleys would make a great choice.

The remark about the "do it youself kits" is common in AA-Alnon circles. It is an expression that is applied to people who go to a few meetings, then drop out and decide to do it on their own. And they fall back into the old patterns of behavior. I speak to this with some experience, I am a recovered alcoholic and will mark 25 years sober this December 18th.

Hope I've answered all your questions. I thought it was very kind of you to to respond to her post, and I thought you were giving her sound advice. I read her thread before you posted, and decided not to respond, because what I was getting from it was that ng wasn't interested in sound advice. What got me to react was when I saw her summarily dismiss your suggestion that she seek out Alanon.

I suspect that you already know that alcoholism is a family disease, and in most cases the spouse of the alcoholic is involved in a pattern of behavior and thinking that is just about as crazy as that of the alcoholic. Most spouses want to get the alcoholic fixed, few want to deal with their own behavior.

Alcoholics are not strangers to divorce. Neither are sober alcoholics. My marriage didn't break up until I was sober in the program for nearly three years. I really believe that if Dr. Harley and Marriage Builders had been around at the time, we might have saved our marriage.

Thanks for the comeback!

NotGuilty,

Please let me say, I'm "the FLAME" you accuse of befriending your husband. You might notice my name, "600 miles away" (that's a clue). I'm sorry you felt compelled to bring my husband and family into your mess. Let me remind you, they are also "600 miles away". My husband knows about my friendship, we are completely honest with each other. This honesty grows from trust, and trust is something that can't be given to someone, it must be earned. I would suggest you stop calling my husband at home and work. It's really too bad we can't be friends...I think you need a good friend. Anyway, if you would like to respond, pleae feel free to do so. I look forward to hearing from you. As far as I can tell, talking with people over the internet about intimate feelings is what this site is all about. It helps to talk to others sometimes, which is exactly what we did (600 miles away)!

600 miles away----

You and my H started this and you and my H brought your family in and you and my H caused your own family problems. According to your H, you were not completely honest, since I filled him in on most of the conversations which also included talk about your "time of the month". I will continue to call your H at work and home and keep him informed of this internet and phonline affair as long as it goes on. Thanks but no thanks, I have my own friends. No, "intimate feelings" are not to be discussed, hurt feelings and feelings they are going thru, intimate feelings are what You and my H discussed and what you both were wishing for when you went to your sisters wedding. What you and my H did is MORE than what I did with my boss. But, go ahead and accuse me of the affair, I am sure it will make you both feel like YOUR affair is justified.