Hi Gentle:

I just wanted to tell you thanks for the advice on restorem.org (restore ministries.) I got the materials about 2 weeks ago, and always find it difficult to put them down. This really helps me a lot, and I can't thank you enough.

I do have doubts, and it is very hard at times, but I know that it is the right thing now to put this in God's hands.

One thing that is really hard for me is that I was married once before, and have a real hard time trying to ask God if I should pray to return for to my first wife (which I couldn't ever imagine) or my current wife. How does one deal with this situation spiritually?

Gregg

Hi, I'm new... sorta. I was here a long time ago back when I first divorced and then I found restore ministries and another place, too... Rejoice Ministries. What blessings in my life!

I happened to read your thank you to "Gentle". I don't know who Gentle is but am so excited that you are praying/hoping for reconciliation with your spouse!

I just read a testimony of a woman in Restore Ministries whose marriage has been restored and she was in here and found out about Restore Ministries and joined there! Wow!

Okay, I just read your last paragraph. I will have to see if I can find any of your other posts to read. Quickly: How long was your 2nd marriage? Is your first wife remarried? You have a heart for God if you are considering returning to your first wife because that very well might be His will for you, depending on the circumstances of all this (if she is remarried, etc). I think Dan and Erin talk about that on their website or in their book.

Have you checked out www.rejoiceministries.org? that is also a great reconciliation site.

Wow, I don't know how to counsel you about which wife to restore, but there are Bible verses on this and I think Erin and Dan talk about it. I think alot depends on the length of your 2nd marriage, etc. Also, is your first wife a Christian?

I am still married (but separated) to my second wife, which is almost 6 years now (next month). My first wife remarried, and has since divorced. I was married to my first wife for 2 years (we were originally together for a few years-on again-off again), then estranged for 2 more years until the divorce was final, technically 4 years after our marriage date. I do not have a heart for returning to my first wife, but only mentioned that since Erin and Dan seem to say that God thinks that you should be in your first marriage. That is where I am having difficulties. I have never felt that I should return to my first wife. Also, I am pretty sure that my first wife is NOT a Christian.

I have not yet checked out rejoiceministries.org, but it sounds like I should.

Thanks,

Gregg

<small>[ August 02, 2003, 02:44 PM: Message edited by: GreggC ]</small>

Just depends on what you want to believe. This passage, in my opinion pretty clearly states that marriage to another puts remarriage to the first or former spouse off limits in the eyes of God. I think it is because a believer will not intentionally divorce without meeting the 'tenets' set up in Matthew, mark, and Luke. And these are up for discussion, and not what I am trying to say here. However, even with that being the case, the second marriage takes precedence over the first if it has happened, because it has occurred and been consumated. ie... even in a Godless marriage, the people are married in their own eyes, hence are recognized in some degree by God. (My belief)... Should they both become Christian and repent, I believe that they would be recognized by God as a married couple... hence the only barrier between them and God is their own behavior and belief. Even with the adultery involved.

But for a 'believer' to remarry after his wife has already married, would be to KNOWINGLY go against what God wants. ie... he wants the marriage to stay together and for them to repent and find him. So if you remarry your ex after she has been married... you are essentially becoming an adulterer since she is or has been married again. No matter that you were married before TO her. There have been circumstances in between that have changed the relationship... and now she is 'another' man's wife, even if she is divorced. A believer will (in my opinion) recognize this and wish for their marriage to be whole within God. Not take her back again, for his own sake.

At least this is what I have gotten out of studying the Bible... I think it is pretty clear on this topic in the following passage.

Deuteronomy 24:1-4
1 "When a man takes a wife and marries her, and it happens that she finds no favor in his eyes because he has found some indecency in her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce and puts {it} in her hand and sends her out from his house, 2 and she leaves his house and goes and becomes another man's {wife,} 3 and if the latter husband turns against her and writes her a certificate of divorce and puts {it} in her hand and sends her out of his house, or if the latter husband dies who took her to be his wife, 4 {then} her former husband who sent her away is not allowed to take her again to be his wife, since she has been defiled; for that is an abomination before the LORD, and you shall not bring sin on the land which the LORD your God gives you as an inheritance.

It is very hard to understand what we are supposed to do. Therefore... sometimes just taking the word for what it says instead of what we would LIKE IT TO SAY or MEAN is the best way to go. I absolutely believe in God's grace. That is the only way that any person born of this earth will ever find his light. However, I don't think God is going to just allow us to 'DO OUR THING' when he has clearly stated what he wants us to do or not do. We will all fail... but do we do it knowingly... and do we repeat the failure?... I think that is what God is looking for. What is in our heart? Are we following our own choices or allowing him to guide us in those choices?

<small>[ August 02, 2003, 10:52 AM: Message edited by: Formerly Confused ]</small>

Hi GreggC,

Wow, this is a very sensitive subject for me.

Me and my husband have been married 2 years.

Before we married, we asked the pastor if we
could get married in that church we attend.
He took the request before the board. The
next day we get a call from a member of the
board, and he tells my husband that we cannot
get married, that my husband needs to go back
to his first wife (he's been married 2 times
prior to me). He said he is a watchman <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> He said if we get married, it would bring a curse on the church! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

This caused us soooo much hurt. I cried and cried. My husband punched the wall the minute he said that. My husband "never" gets angry. Reminded me of Jesus when he overturned the tables in the temple. My husband
married 1st wife as a teenager and divorced
many, many years ago. She isn't even a believer!!! We then talked to the pastor, he didn't agree with the "watchman" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> either. The other
thing is, another person on the board agreed
with the watchman also. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

This same man tried shaking my hand in church the next time we were there with a big smile on his face. I would not shake his hand. I wouldn't let that man touch me!!
Everytime I see him, it reminds me of those horrible words he said to us!! It has led me
away from there, because emotionally I can't
handle it. And it definitely was spiritual abuse. But I will always walk with God.

Becareful of any and all advice given in church.

Well needless to say I don't trust the ministries/advice
in that church, and the pastor has since left also.
We did get married in another church, and had
our reception at our church. They wouldn't marry us there because they had a rule that if
anyone had ever been divorced before, then they
couldn't marry in that church. 2 months after
our marriage, a miracle happened, and others that
have been divorced before becoming a believer can
marry in that church now. This church is very large worldwide, and that rule changed for all of them. (my husbands divorces both happened before he became a believer.)

GreggC, Do not take advice in the church unless it is New Testament, New covenant advice. Or it
will mess you up emotionally and spiritually.

Forget your 1st wife, you were wrongly advised to go back to her.

If you think you can restore with Gods help the marriage you are in now, then settle for that.

Sorry for being so blunt. I just don't want to see you misled in anyway by the church.

Ladysheep

LadySheep and Formerly Confused:

Thanks for the advice <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

As I tried to explain, I only became confused when reading the materials in the men's "God will restore your marriage" handbook/guide purchased from restore ministries www.restorem.org website.

Gregg

Hi Greg,

You know, I like Erin and Dan (at restored ministries) because they speak the truth from the Bible. They don't just say what people want to hear. There were things I NEEDED to hear but didn't want to hear but am so thankful for their boldness and faithfulness for speaking truth.

You need to be careful of advice received from anyone (not just the church). Personally, I think Erin and Dan's advice is right on because it is backed up with so much Scripture. These are people who pray, fast, and are in the Word, and they are people whose marriage was restored. They have a testimony of restored marriage.

As for your situation, Greg, since you are not divorced with your current spouse, I don't think you should divorce. I wasn't sure if you were divorced or not. I think Formerly Confused said it pretty well. The Deut. verse talks about the defilement. I don't totally understand it all and I think at Rejoice Ministries they talk about it too. I will try to remember to provide you with a link of a good article by John Piper, a pastor. There is also a good mini-book by Tony Evans called "Divorce and Remarriage."

Since it's been so long, since your wife remarried, since you are not divorced, since your first wife is possibly not a Believer... those are all reasons I see that you should not return to first wife.

But, weight all and any advivce you receive (including mine) in light of Scripture and what God tells you through your times of prayer and fasting, and as you are in the Word. What you need to do is examine any advice you receive with the Word of God. Also, I would seek "advice" from godly, reputable pastors like John Piper, Tony Evans, etc. And while I think Erin and Dan's advice is sometimes really hard to swallow, I do think it's Biblical. But also, RejoiceMinistries is very Biblical and they don't totally agree with everything Dan and Erin say.

Like I am confused on whether to express to my husband (we've been divorced 10 mos) that I still love him and want to reconcile, etc. Erin would say no. The other ministry would say yes. The other ministry says this: every situation is different and the same advice cannot possibly apply to every situation. You need to listen to what God tells you. And that's what I am doing. I am planning on fasting for like a week next week and praying earnestly before doing anything.

Well, I hope that helps. You seem to have a humble heart willing to obey God. I can tell because you have considered returning to your first wife IF that's the right thing to do, even though you don't want to. God will honor your willingness to do right. I personally don't think your 2nd marriage should end in divorce in order to go back to 1st marriage, and I think you should concentrate on restoring 2nd marriage. But again, examine my advice and any other's in light of God's Word and pray and fast about it and listen to what God says.

God bless!

<small>[ August 03, 2003, 01:14 AM: Message edited by: LoveMyEx ]</small>

Gregg,

I have been thinking about you. I had prayed that you would go to the restore site. I am so glad you did. The rejoice site is good also. I get the daily devotionals and have some of their materials. Both stress trusting the Lord with ALL
THINGS.

This is very important. Trust God and seek Him for all things. Both the web sites are good, but they are there to help guide us down the path and to share their testimonies of what God has shown them. Both ministries will tell you this.

Now as to your question about this being your 2nd marriage. My situation is the same. This is my second marriage. I had the same concern you do at first. The more I ask people and the more I read the more confused I became. Of course Satan likes to confuse us.

The womens book from Restore has a lot to say about this subject. THe first edition didn't have as much material about remarriage but the revised edition does. I hope the mens book has the same stuff. Remember though this is only a guide. You will have to do as I did. Ask God and then wait for his answer.

I fasted and prayed for GOd to show me if He wanted this marriage restore since it was my second marriage. God answered me in an awesome way. It was so awesome that it had to be form GOd.
Satan still tries to use this against me, but I go back to the answer God gave me almost three years ago.

One answer that I read once helped me and I believe to be true, God's answer never complicates things. My former husband leaving his current wife and two children, complicates things. Those two children would be broken as would my husband's and my two children.

Erin also says what ever marriage you are in to stop. At some point divorce must stop are we keep passing it on to our children.

I once had a pastor tell me that if I listen to him, I would fail and if I listen to my family I would fail. He said the only way I would not fail is to listen to the Lord, no one else. That is not to say God doesn't speak through other people. We need to make sure it is confirmed else where and is backed by His word.

Ask God. It took fasting for me to get an answer that was so clear to me. Different churches and faiths will tell you different things. This is one of those things that only Jesus can answer. Remember the blood of Jesus can cover ANY sin. I believe His blood covered the sins of my past divorce and I have promise Him I would sin no more. I will not divorce. My husband would have to divorce me. I don't believe that is going to happen. He is very close to coming home.

I do not cover up the sins of my past divorced. I am always ready to give a testimony of what divorce did to my sons and others. I also can tell those that are divorcing , that divorce is not the answer. I have been there so ,no one can say I don't understand. I have been where they are at. I can also share with them how God has used my past sins to change my heart and me.

Gregg, like me, you will not be content until you get GOd's answer. Nothing else will do.

I am so glad you are taking this path. It may be a long journey. It may be short, but it will change you and bring you closier to the Lord and this is more important than anything else.

You are welcome. I praise God for using me to send you down this path. It is all about Him.
I look foward to hearing more from you.

gentle

Hi Gentle,
I just recenlty joined here although I don't plan on seeking advice here or staying too long. Actually, when I first divorced about 10 mos. ago, I found this site. I think it was here also where I saw someone recommend the Restore Ministries site. Once I went there (and to Rejoice Ministries), I stopped coming here. I stopped seeking advice altogether realizing many of the things it sounds like you have realized (that God had to show you what to do).

Well, then I told people here to go there and recently, I saw a testimony of a woman at Restore Ministries whose marriage has been restored and she said she was here and someone here recommended she go there. I thought to myself, "Maybe that was me!!" and was so excited at the thought that maybe God used me in that small way to help restore a marriage. Wow.

It probably wasn't me, but reading your words are a blessing. It sounds like God has done a great work in you and you have a peace and strength in your words that sound like a woman trusting God.

God bless and I hope and pray that your husband does come home soon!

p.s. Did you ever get the "Be Encouraged" tapes from Restore Ministries? If not, they are very good. I highly recommend them.

Hi Gentle,

You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I fasted and prayed for GOd to show me if He wanted this marriage restore since it was my second marriage. God answered me in an awesome way. It was so awesome that it had to be form GOd. Satan still tries to use this against me, but I go back to the answer God gave me almost three years ago. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Would it be too much to ask you how God answered you and how did you know?
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Erin also says what ever marriage you are in to stop. At some point divorce must stop are we keep passing it on to our children.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you mean she says to stay in your current marriage?

I do know now more than ever, I am driven to be interested in things that my wife has been interested in, but in which I never expressed an interest. This weekend for example, I went by our house (my W is out of town for a couple of days) and picked up a couple of her favorite movies and watched them by myself and really enjoyed myself. Could this be a way that God is answering me?

Thanks again, Gentle. I also have been thinking of you and praying for you and your situation. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Gregg

Hi Gregg,

I guess the first choice you have to make is weather you want to divorce your wife or not.
You have been separated from her for 6 yrs, thats quite a long time. Some people feel so
guilty getting a divorce when sometimes it's really is the only answer. And "some" church advisers would certainly try to make you feel guilty if you wanted to remarry anyone. The Lord does give us our choice also I believe in a situation like this. He will not condemn you if you divorce at this point, and He won't condemn you if you want to stay, but can't guarantee anything if you stay married. We can't make any one love us, and God can't either. If they don't have love (God), how can they give love? It's a choice to love or not to love. You can't make that choice for your wife. If you see it getting better, and you want that, by all means
stay, but if it's not getting any better, don't be afraid to leave, God will not condemn you, and either will I. He wants what is best for you.

Why are you and your wife separated? And is it for infidelity?

Do you want to reconcile with her? Do you think it's possible at this point? If not, you have
to accept moving on.

Believe me, I have seen the miracles of God with and without marriage!!

Please don't let anyone lay on you false guilt. God loves you. You deserve the best as a child of God, and I hope the best for you weather you divorce or not, and even get remarried at some point. It's your choice.

Sent with Love, Ladysheep

Ladysheep,

Gregg just recently separated from his current wife. He does wish to restore this current marriage. He is just concerned about God wanting his current marriage restored since he has been married and divorced before.

True Gregg nor I can make anyone love us. God is in charge of the heart and He turns it whichever way He wishes. When we allow God to work in us, change happens. Many times one spouse doesn't believe they are "in love" with their spouse. This happens for many reasons. One is that we are so angry at our spouse for what we believe to be failing us in some way. The love is hidden or covered up by our anger or disappointments. I say this because I have lived this myself. There was a time I thought I hated my husband. God has changed that and after realizing my husband could not fill the needs I thought he could, God has shown me a love for my husband that I know will never go away. I know depend on God to fill me , not my husband. I am now free to love him unconditionally.

My husband's love for me is also returning as God changes me.

Gregg,

If you email me at tpatter4@aol.com I will tell you how God answered my prayer.

Also, Erin can't tell you what to do. She can only guide you as I can. Erin says to stop in whatever marriage you are in and then ask God what He wants you to do. It must be God's will not your will or my will or Erin's will. Learn to depend on God. Learning takes time. Our trails and pain our two ways we learn.

gentle

<small>[ August 03, 2003, 02:35 PM: Message edited by: gentle ]</small>

Ladysheep, I don't think your advice to Greg is Biblical. God hates divorce and doesn't look upon it favorably. Greg made vows and God expects him to keep them. I'm talking about the 2nd marriage here.

You know, I wonder what ever happened to keeping a promise simply to keep it even if and even though we may not want to. I'm saddened by advice that encourages divorce over keeping promises and vows.

God never guaranteed any of us an easy or a happy life or marriage. He does promise us things as Believers when we OBEY Him. Obedience though costs. It might cost Greg if He decides to reconcile because it might mean that his wife doesn't want to and he waits for however many years deciding to stay single. No one knows what God's will is for Greg except God but it is wrong of us as Christians to say that divorce is okay and sometimes the only way. That is not true. It is the worst way and it is disobedience.

As for remarriage, there is a verse that says: "Wives don't divorce your husbands." Then it says that if you do divorce them, you must stay single or reconcile. There are many verses that say that remarriage is ADULTERY. But no one wants to obey by staying single because people think it's too hard and that marriage = happiness and they make marriage into an idol and thinking that they deserve it.

This is not said to condemn you Ladysheep or Greg who are both in second marriages. Obviously, breaking up a 2nd marriage to go back to a 1st marriage is not right. What's been done is done and you ask God for forgiveness if the first marriage ended not on Biblical grounds (meaing there was no adultery and the other person was a Believer).

I have committed sins in my life that were irreversible. They were not God's will and I disobeyed and have reaped consequences including tremendous sorrow over my disobedience and at hurting myself and others. But, God does forgive.

HOWEVER, it is wrong to do something you know is wrong with the thought of "well, God will forgive me." God forgives but you don't use this to justify a wrongdoing.

Anyways, I just had to say this because I don't think that telling someone to stay married is laying on "false guilt" and I think Gregg is doing the right thing by desiring reconciliation (with his 2nd wife) but Ladysheep, when you say God wants the best for Greg... how is divorce the best??????? It's not.

I dont' mean to stir anything up or offend anyone, but I promised God that if given the opportunity, I would defend marriage and encourage all hurting spouses to trust Him and to seek reconciliation. When I found Erin's website and began to see things in a new light, I made this promise to God. Marriage is a covenant, not just some agreement.

Thanks, Gentle. I emailed you
yesterday.

Gregg

Dear Lovingmyex,

I believe you are stirring things up, If you read my posts again, I never did encourage divorce.

I did misunderstand. I thought he said he was separated from his now wife for 6 yrs. Thanks to gentle, she cleared that up for me.

Every time I read your posts, I sense a lot of
anger in them. Why is that?

It's up to Gregg to see where his marriage is leading. Hopefully, and for the best there is reconciliation. But I will not condemn him if that doesn't happen.

As for quoting scriptures on the subject, I will not do. Because that could mess a person up more. There isn't a clear answer in scripture on the subject. That is why there are so many interpretations, and contradictions. Enough to confuse anyone.

Ladysheep

Dear Lovingmyex,

God leaves it up to both spouses to reconcile. If God could save a marriage
I'm sure he would have saved yours long ago.
And many others here. Yes God doesn't like
divorce, does anyone??

It's the wife and husbands choice, love and work that will keep a marriage together.

Ladysheep

Dear Ladysheep,
I am not sure how I am "stirring things up." If that is the case, I will not post in this particular thread anymore. I did not think everything you said was Biblical. I guess that's maybe how you thought I was stirring things up?

You sense anger in my posts??? No, you don't. I'm sorry, I think you might be saying that because you don't like what I said. Honest I do because I am not angry at all.

I don't think I will post in this one anymore. My only intent was to encourage. Maybe you can quote for me the things I said that sound angry? I can't understand because I have felt no anger at all the whole short time I've been in here. Sorry, that just confused me. It would help if you could please quote the angry sounding things. Thanks <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Yes, of course it's up to Greg to see where his marriage is leading. I also will not condemn him if reconciliation does not happen. What good would that do? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Maybe if I add smileys, I won't sound angry? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

BUT... I do want to encourage him to reconcile if he desires it because God's Word says that we should aim for reconciliation. (talking about his 2nd marriage).

You won't quote Scriptures?? Scripture will mess a person up?? There isn't a clear answer on the subject? Okay... well, I will quote Scripture because I think Scripture is the very BEST source of comfort, wisdom, strength, and encouragement that exists!! It is God's Word and God is our Creator! Also, the Bible does say alot on the subject of not only divorce, marriage, and remarriage... but also on reconciliation, forgiveness, hope, faith, and love... all of which are applicable to a troubled marriage.

Ladysheep, you also said that "If God could save a marriage, I'm sure he would have saved yours long ago." Personally, I think that is kinda a cruel thing for you to say to me for many reasons. I am not seeking any advice here. And you don't know me. I didn't divorce that long ago and both me and my husband are still single. Don't condemn my marriage please. IF God can save my marriage, He will. He couldn't have saved it "long ago" because we didn't divorce "long ago." I read that statement as if you were only trying to hurt me maybe? I'm not sure. I'm not hurt, but do think that was the intent which you said it. Sorry, but that's how it came across.

You also said, "It's the wife and husbands choice, love and work that will keep a marriage together."

Yes, of course it's their choice, but it's still on my heart to encourage reconciliation and if given the opportunity, I will. I think I will not post in here (this topic) anymore, but I do want to share some verses.

God bless.

Actually, on second thought, no, I don't think I will. I think it will be best to not write here anymore. I do not feel comfortable...

BUT Greg, I wish you the best and pray God's wisdom, strength, and peace upon you. I pray He will show you His will. He is the great Comforter, Healer, and Psychiatrist! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I hope that both you and Gentle will be blessed and that God will restore your marriages IF that is what you want.

I also hope those two marriage sites will be blessings for you!! God bless!

Jeremiah 33:3 "Call to me and I will answer you adn tell you great and unsearchable things you do not know."

John 14:1 "Jesus said, "Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me."

James 1:5 "If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him."

Gal. 6:9 "Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up."

Hi Gentle,

I hope and pray all the best for you.
I never once encouraged divorce to you.
All I said is that no matter how things
turn out for you, weather it be reconciliation,
divorce, or remarriage in the future, please
do not feel condemned when you have done all
you can do to save your marriage, and when God
has done all He can do also.

One thing the Lord has told us to do is to..
"Love one another" and even though we love
one another and everybody, the Lord does not expect, and we cannot expect everyone to love
us back. Sometimes they do, and sometimes they
don't. God does draw the WS's I believe for those in prayer for them, and gives them a choice to make things right in their marriage. Some choose His way, some don't.
So it's up to you to see what God is doing and how your spouse is reacting to His drawing. She
may be pulling away, she may be submitting.
It's her choice. The "reconciliated ones" are the ones who have submitted to the pull and draw of God. God did not make them submit, they chose to submit to His pull toward reconciliation. And when submitting, He blessed it.
If they pull away from His drawing them, and go
toward rebellion still, and non-reconciliation, that is their choice also, God did not make them rebel. They do that themselves. It's not God's
fault, it's not satan's fault, it's most of the time their own fault. Their choice. Just like
it's a choice to accept or reject the Lord Jesus.
The Father draws the unbelievers unto Jesus all the time, then it's their choice to accept or reject.


When He tells us to "Love one another." Many
do not know how to do this. It's not given
clear direction on "how?" Just to do it.

What I love about MB, is that there is direction
on "how" to love our spouse and so much more. Therefore I believe it is a ministry sent by God.

Sent with Love, Ladysheep

Reply above to Greggcc, don't know why I said Gentle, but hope it gives some insight to Gentle as well. May God Bless and comfort you both!!

Sent with Love, Ladysheep