sufdb,

I wrote you a long post and lost it when i hit submit. I will have to rewrite and post later.

sorry,

gentle

<small>[ August 06, 2003, 01:07 PM: Message edited by: gentle ]</small>

Interesting twists and turns this thread has taken, since I just this evening had this very conversation with my pastor!

He is doing a series on Wednesdays from Exodus on the 10 Commandments, and last Wednesday, the topic was "Thou shalt not commit adultery." It took off from there. Basically, his sermon was that adultery is a form of "get out of jail free" card for the believer who doesn't commit adultery.....the M is over, God is "releasing you...." Blah, blah, blah......you all know the drill.

Well, I was pretty hot when I left church last Wednesday night, and felt like I needed to communicate my thoughts, feelings, beliefs to him. I wrote him a letter. In part, it stated that although divorce is "allowed" by adultery, it isn't required! I handed it to him after church Sunday. Tonight, after service, he asked to talk to me. We talked.

He still believes that one's S committing adultery breaks the covenant, and therefore, the M is over. Period. No ifs, ands, or buts. I tried, talking about the Prodigal Son, bringing in many of "Mortarman's" arguments, to point out to him that one Standing for one's M was a "higher calling" (in essence). It's the path God calls some to walk, to continue to pray for one's S, to ask God to reconcile them back together. I told him that God was not pleased when two christians break His covenant. God Himself wanted to Divorce the Isrealites, but didn't.....that He grieved over them, and reconciled them back to Himself, rather than break that covenant....

It was an interesting conversation, he basically told me we aren't in disagreement, but I disagree with that! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

One reason I think we are far apart is he believes that once the covenant is broken (whatever reason, although basically through sin such as adultery), then it must be dissolved, and if the adulterous S marries the OP, BS may NOT take their original S back, rather the WS and OP now enter into a new covenant, recognized by God!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Why am I telling you all this? No, not b/c I want you all angry at my Pastor. He is a real man of God, and I agree with (almost) everything he gives us (from God's lips to his ears.....). Here's why I am telling you all this:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
I believe God is going to restore my M. I believe God led me to this church to speak to me, He led me to this site, as well as RejoiceMinistries, and RestoreM (not to mention great people like Lostva and Frank to encourage me) in order to give me the hope and faith that these things WILL happen!!

I also believe satan would like nothing more than to see me weaken, give up, give in, go away, let go and move on........leave my H to his own path, and then to end up forever in Hell.

But since I won't, weird things are happening all around me lately.....trying to discourage me, derail me, etc.

In fact, let me share some more weird things that recently happened......First, there's this guy at church. I wrote about him several months ago. I'm somewhat attracted to him, he's a major distraction to me. I am trying to remain steadfast, and obedient to God. I have even moved from where I like to sit in order to remove myself from this distraction/temptation. Weird thing is: Now HE'S moved! He's sitting on the complete opposite side of the sanctuary now (guess where? The side I now sit on!) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

And then the pastor preaches on adultery, and says divorce in this instance is OK WITH GOD? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

Oh! Forgot to mention this. This guy - well, usually, he runs right out of the church.....first one out, right? First car out of the parking lot (I'm usually second!) so I know. Tonight? I'm speaking very intensely with pastor, but notice that this guy is hanging around near the exit. But NOT leaving! Like maybe waiting to speak with me.....or whatever......finally gets tired of hanging around, I suppose, so he's gone by the time I leave, practically the last out.

Well, here's where I am........I believe God is going to restore my M. I am adamant about this. I believe satan does not want that to happen. He is doing everything possible to derail me!! There's even a new guy at work........just started this week.......he reminds me COMPLETELY of my H! I mean, his hair is the same color, wears it the same style, he's about the same height. I actually almost cried the first day I met him and had to stare at his back for several hours during meetings!

So satan is throwing all he's got at me! (At least I HOPE this is all he's got) Is it working? Actually, all it's really doing is making me more RESOLUTE! I now believe satan knows he's about to lose this fight!! PTL!!!!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Gentle, thank you. Your resolute spirit to "set your face like flint" toward the prize continually inspires me to keep on keeping on........

LoveMyEx these stories of restored M's are also what keeps us going...........knowing that one day, someone might be telling our stories to inspire others to keep on keeping on.......they also inspire me. Keep posting them!!! BTW - do an Internet search for the name of Lorne Matthews. I heard them speak and sing at our church about a year and a half ago. They also had a separation/near divorce, and the Lord restored them! They write and tell about it on their web site.

sufdb - doesn't matter what WE say, or believe, or do not believe. As they always have, your posts talk about what we mere mortals want.....as if that matters to God. As if believing you "picked the wrong partner" years ago will somehow get God to agree with you, that leaving is in your best interest........NOT! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

A vow before God is a vow, [b[regardless of how we feel about it years down the line.[/b] It was a covenant, a vow, and we are NOT to enter or leave it lightly, or we face the consequences.

Further, God is God and WE ARE NOT. HE will have His way in our lives, and we CAN'T STOP HIM!!! It's true. If we don't want to serve Him, He can raise up another to do it. I, personally, DO NOT WANT TO TURN GOD DOWN anymore. BTDT. It's not pretty.

My dear friend, Frank. Thanks for coming back and sharing your testimony with so many newbies. I'm sure it's as encouraging to them to hear about it as it was to me two years ago. Again, God using YOU to help others make it just one more day/week/whatever till He is ready to bring our Prodigal home.
BTW, I tried sending you an email, but it bounced back. Too much mail in it! Make more room, bro, and I'll write to ya! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Now it's late, I've taken over an hour to compose this post, and I must get some sleep, so let me just say I am always so encouraged by reading all your stories. I love you guys, and know that God has brought us together so we can lift each other up, give Him the glory for what He will do and "see the salvation of the Lord."

God Bless.

HI Bev,
Praise God for your strength and I tend to agree with you about satan throwing things at you because he wants you to "walk away".

Although some will argue that God may be trying to send someone to you.. you and I know differently.......

Even if only YOU believe you are still married...and God KNOWS this.... why would HE tempt you? I mean,would God actually send someone to tempt you to change your mind about your Marriage.......I really don't think so...that would be kind of cruel....more like satans style.

I of course, think a lot of your pastor is a little off on a couple of points.... How can he say you MUST D if there is an affair..??? What about forgiveness 70x7 etc... and WOW.... it wouldn't really be fair since we, the BS have much to do with our WS being weak enough to let an affair take hold....AND... AGAIN WOW.... what about if there are children.... they need to be punished as well.... and of course OUR favorite... the FAMILY around that couple.. aunts.... uncles.....MIL FIL.... I can't believe God wants that.....

And.. MOSTLY.... I disagree that..." if the adulterous S marries the OP, BS may NOT take their original S back, rather the WS and OP now enter into a new covenant, recognized by God!!!
This hits home with me... this was a real stumbling block for my W and I... so much so that we invited an Elder from her congregation (that knew OM too) and an elder from my congregation (who knew my W and I for 10 of the 14 yrs of our marriage)
This was VERY hard for both of us. Me... because I SEEMED like the OM to her church... and for my W because the elder from MINE knew she had met OMH during an affair....
AND.....we really weren't sure WHAT THEY WOULD TELL US.... we were BOTH determined to do God's will no matter what...
After a few hours...of deep discussion and looking up scripture... neither could come up with a definitive answer... and then.... the ELDER FROM MY W'S CONGREGATION... WHO RECOGNIZED OM AS HER H.... Said.... "After hearing the WHOLE STORY now....I think the important thing is to do the thing that would GLORIFY GOD...."
" And.... staying with OM after lying to the minister that married you.... and lying to God.... would only glorify what you did to get to your marriage to OM... "
It glorifies... LIES.... DECEIT.... SELFISHNESS....and many other sins...and says that GOD... in fact will just say... "The END JUSTIFIES THE MEANS" Now you two stay married....
Where re-marrying would GLORIFY THE COVENANT OF MARRIAGE.... FORGIVENESS....and many things that give glory to God...
AND>.... serve as a testament that ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE WITH GOD...!!

So... sorry for getting long winded... someone else has beaten me up about me being the bad guy in this situation... when MAN.... if there is a bad guy (although used by satan) it was OM... I was only trying to save my 15 year Marriage!!
Whew...I just figured I'd come back and give people a lift...I remember how much it meant to me when I would cry at the drop of a hat and slept about 1 hour a night trying to find some hope in this nightmare....
ALL THE LOVE AND PRAYERS TO YOU MY FRIEND.... FRANK (I'll try to email soon...)

lupo....A vow before God is a vow, [b[regardless of how we feel about it years down the line.[/b] It was a covenant, a vow, and we are NOT to enter or leave it lightly, or we face the consequences.

Sufdb....do you always believe this is true? That a vow is a vow, an absolute?

I am not sure why ladysheep and sufb have posted in this particular thread on success stories. I admit I was somewhat disapointed to see they had (posted here) because I know you both are antagonist towards the "hope" of restored marriages and feel that those of us who talk about it are judging those who don't.

Out of simple curiosity, I don't know sufb's story but ladysheep, you said you are not happily remarried so I was wondering what brought you to the divorce forum? Just wondering. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

But, Gentle, you are very gentle and Christ like in all your comments I've read. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I once heard a story about how our thinking is so mixed-up. This woman told her child during dinner that she couldn't eat her fruit until she first ate her chips. Something like that. Basically, it was like, you can't have the truly good stuff until you first have the bad stuff (she thought the bad stuff was better). It reminds me of people who discourage reconicliation as if it's a bad thing. I think there are people who'd be happier if I cursed out my husband and sued him rather than forgiving and loving him.

I think marriage builders should have a separte thread that is for those people desing reconiliation, one where hopefully, people could talk about it without others discouraging it or being antagonist towards it. Although, well, both Erin and the other site talk about how you really need to guard yourself that you're not constantly on the internet and esp. that you're not tempted to rag on your spouse or get caught up in the negative talk. So I don't know if it'd be good. I believe it is "dangerous" to get advice from all different people, esp. those who are in the throes of a painful divorce.

Gentle, I enjoyed reading your posts. It sounds like the Lord has done many good things these past 3 yrs. I do not think my restoration will be anytime soon, but I press on. I love my husband dearly and am so very thankful for those who've gone before me and were willing to restore their marriages... esp. those who had faith enough to wait for it (like Erin). I am thankful for their examples.

Whatever happens, I will praise the Lord and give thanks for all He's done and is going to do. Even if I am 80 and still waiting <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> , I am glad I have chosen this path simply for all the work God has done in me as a result.

Dear Lovingmyex,

I think you are a very manipulative one, and have taken everything I have written out of context. It's obvious you don't want me sufbd here, and it looks as though your main objective
is to get us off of here.

Im glad for all marriages that are restored, but to give false hope to people in saying it will
happen to all, is wrong, so I won't do that. I don't condemn the married, divorced, or remarried.

If anyone is reading this go back and read my posts and tell me what you think. I have never
discouraged reconciliation, and I certainly am
not an antogonist against it.

And gentle~~ as for my walk with God, it's good!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Blessings, Sent with Love, Ladysheep

Lupolady, I'm saying this not against your pastor, but he seems stuck on the get out of marriage free. This may have been true in old test. times. If anyone was found to commit adultry they were stoned to death, so they no longer had a living spouse. When Jesus was on the earth he gave forgiveness to the adultress. Henceforth the adultress was forgivin and not stoned. After this is where the writings of Paul came in about how to treat adultry. I agree with you totally: adultry does not have to be the end of a marriage. Smiaj

ladysheep,

I didn't mean your walk with God. I should have written ones walk with God. I do that a lot.
I am sorry that it seemed I meant you personally.
I was just saying this little stuff doesn't matter. It is all about OUR relationship with God.

gentle

Lupolady,

I think that to "set your face like flint" is the only way to make it when desiring reconciliation. I'm glad you reminded me of that verse. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I often pray, "Lord, help my disbelief". That is a verse in the Bible; offhand can't think where though. And I think alot of Abraham when God told him to sacrifice his son and how he unswervingly obeyed. I mean, he din't even doubt at all. That is truly amazing faith! And I also think about how if he had told people what he was going to do, I'm sure they would have tried to stop him and would've told him he was nuts. If it were today, they would have said he were mentally this and that, hearing voices, etc. But, interestingly, he told no one and he obeyed too. Anyways, that type of faith is something I am learning but often feel not even close to yet!

I'm glad that the stories I posted have inspired you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> They inspire me alot too. I think it was great that this thread was started because there are so many success stories of restored marriages. I have heard of Lorne Matthews. I think I ran into his name when I was first divorced months ago and was doing alot of studying on divorce/remarriage and then reconciliation. I will have to look him up again though.

I agree with you Lupolady about the whole "I made a mistake, God will understand if I divorce" mentality being wrong. James Dobson says to keep your eyes wide open before you marry (pick wisely) but half shut afterwards (live with what you have). In my marriage, I was the one who first thought "I made a mistake"-- and I will confess publically that I was a fool to ever say that to my husband. You know, there is nowhere in the Bible where picking the "wrong" mate allows divorce. It is like abortion in a way where a girl made a "mistake" of getting pregnant and aborts the baby to fix it. Or think of it this way, when she has the baby, even if it was truly a "mistake", God can still turn that mistake into something wonderful and honor that girl for keeping her mistake. I think it is the same with "mistaken" marriages. Two wrongs don't make a right, right? That is not a Biblical saying, but there is wisdom to it.

Lupolady, you said, "Further, God is God and WE ARE NOT." Amen Sister! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

You also said, "I, personally, DO NOT WANT TO TURN GOD DOWN anymore. BTDT. It's not pretty." Amen again. It is not always easy but I want to obey regardless the cost. I feel your heart is there too. The Bible says that the road to life is "narrow" and the road to destruction is "broad". Even if I walk alone, I want to be on that narrow path. But it's not always easy.

I enjoyed your post. I think I posted to you (or in a post you started) in the prayer requests section.

God bless!

P.S. I just went to the Lorne Matthews website! How awesome! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> You know, I haven't been there (and I'd thought I'd been to all the reconciliation stuff in existence on the web <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ). Somehow I've heard of him though! Thank you for sharing his name! I am going to read through his site. Looks like there are support groups, etc.

You know what touches me so much too... is the photos of their families. He has one there... what a beautiful family. I think you mentioned (on the prayer request site) that you get the Rejoice Ministry devos. Are you also a member of Restore Ministries? Well, they sent Christmas cards out and I was so choked up because there was this beautiful family... 4 kids in the back and three in front... with two parents who bore them. Well, the three in front were born AFTER the divorce and I just thought of how those kids would be nonexistent had Erin (the wife) not decided to stand and wait for reconciliation. That just touched me sooo much. Not only that, but that picture would be the four kids and only one parent. Pictures do speak a thousand words.

Since this is a "Success Story" thread, I will copy and post their (Lorne Matthews) success story after posting this. So glad to read another story of restored marriage.

STORY OF LORNE MATTHEWS

My destructive choices were worse than burning money. I was in a ‘tender trap’ and it all FELT so good. My mind said it had to be of God! On the altar of selfish emotions, I was sacrificing my true wealth: my family.

On my 40th birthday, I recall feelings of anger, rejection, frustration, and not having the success I longed for. I bitterly concluded the hindering factor had to be my wife, Jimmie Ruth (Genesis 3:12). We had been married 18 years, but I now found our relationship dull and boring. We didn’t fight. There just wasn’t any emotional connection.

Our family started using the hair styling services of a woman in our church. One day I visited the shop in her home for a haircut. As she completed the job, she gently caressed me and this action sparked the fire of lust within me to become fully kindled. The iniquity I hid in my heart now erupted into a blazing fire. We met next day, determined to divorce our mates and continue this abundant life our sinful hearts craved.

I reached out to a high profile Christian counselor who was convinced God was setting me free from the bondage of my marriage and giving me someone more suited to my needs. This counselor encouraged me to move in with my new "flame" and learn from her. He used Bible verses like Mark 10:29-30 to convince me (Romans 7:8 and 11).

My new heartthrob easily obtained her divorce. However, I ran into a brick wall: a wife who believed, by the inspiration of God, that a covenant marriage meant, "until death do us part". She refused to cooperate or sign anything. I tried to convince her that I was committing adultery and she had biblical grounds to divorce me. But Jimmie Ruth had already examined the so-called "Exception Clause" (Matthew 5:32 and 19:9). She concluded this was written to a Jewish culture with betrothal customs. (During the year of betrothal, if there was unfaithfulness, the betrothed could obtain a divorce). Joseph and Mary were such an example (Matthew 1:18-25). The Scriptures state: "except it be for fornication" (not adultery). Even though many Christian friends, out of sympathy for Jimmie Ruth, thought my adultery was grounds for divorce, she stood firm on her conviction: the covenant vows of marriage united us as "one flesh" until one of us died.

I blamed my wife for my adultery at this point; after all, if I could get a legal document of divorce in my hand, then my new relationship would cease to be adultery. Or would it? (Mark. 10:11-12, Luke 16:18)

The other woman and I moved in together. She helped soothe my conscience by telling me she heard "the voice of God". I now know it was a form of control and manipulation, not God at all. "The voice" told us to move to Florida and we did! The "voice" in her often prophesied to me things which did come to pass. (Demons have power to deceive, so fulfillment of a prophesy is significant only if it agrees fully with the Word of God. Deuteronomy 13:1-5, II Thessalonians 2:9). The lack of righteousness in my heart gave power to the deception of sin working also in her.

She prophesied that a millionaire would come into our lives and provide everything we needed for a new life, a new marriage and a new ministry. And it happened! The millionaire placed into my hands keys to a new car, keys to a condo on an exquisite golf course and keys to a church which I would pastor (in spite of my adultery). He also financed Christian television programs for us at a well-known TV facility. I could involve any woman I chose to "marry".

Still my wife continued faithful, praying a hedge of protection around me, and trusting in her God.

The youngest daughter of this woman lived with us. Each night I would tuck her in bed, pray with her and play the role of a "Christian" father while committing adultery with her mother (INSANITY!) Rom.7:22,23. At the same time, I had forsaken my own two children, Mark and Melody. I was worse than an infidel (I Timothy 5:8). I had misplaced my passion and was controlled by my emotions. My focus was inward and selfish, not on the Word of God nor my family (II Timothy 3:1-7).

One evening, this child prayed "Dear Jesus, make Jimmie Ruth so sick that she will sign the divorce papers so we can be a family." Within hours of that prayer, my wife, who had been in perfect health, was rushed into emergency surgery. A large portion of her intestines had to be removed and she was not expected to live through the night. Still she clung faithfully to her covenant promise "until death do us part".

The day following my wife’s surgery, this woman’s first-born teenage son, who had also been in perfect health, was rushed to another hospital across town. He was diagnosed with a brain tumor. The woman was convinced it was the work of a demon sent by my wife. However, she stubbornly refused to repent of her own sin (Revelation 2:18-23). Several months later, her son, a godly young man, died. She had prophesied that I would one day adopt him; his name would have been Jimmy Matthews (like my wife’s name)! The blinder’s covering the eyes of my spirit were being removed. I started seeing glimpses of the deception. The curse was being broken.

Gradually, I realized I had to start obeying the Word of God, not just what felt good to me. The softening of my heart (Matthew 19:8) caused me to turn toward Melody, my daughter, and her graduation (Malachi 4:5-6). On my arrival, I found she had lined our driveway with yellow ribbons to welcome her daddy home. I went to my son Mark and asked him to forgive me. He gave me a casual "sure" that probably matched the initial sureness of my repentance, but both have become more solid over these many years. My wife, by God’s mercy, was still standing where she had stood when she uttered those vows on December 28, 1962 – faithful to her God and to her covenant. The process started: I confessed, turned and forsook my sin and received God’s mercy (Proverbs 28:13).

On a cold winter’s day, I sought for the grave of that godly young son. Kneeling in the snow, I asked God why He did not take my life instead of his. The boy was innocent – I was the guilty one! Finally I found some comfort in the thought that he was now in God’s presence. Then the scripture came to me, "The unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife." (I Corinthians 7:14). My wife’s faithfulness kept me separated unto God, as well as to our children.

At the first, as we sought to restore our lives together, Jimmie Ruth and I did not have warm, "fuzzy"emotions; but in the fear of the Lord, we began rebuilding our marriage. Each began taking personal responsibility for our individual walk with God. We made an investment of putting effort behind right actions to each other, which will always lead to healed emotions over time.

The process has been long and painful, but I can honestly say, the results are well worth the effort. My daily life now swims in peace; and the joyful sounds of happy, healthy grandchildren are the fruit of God’s mercy added to my obedience. Our son and daughter have chosen to forgive and love their repentant dad. I have a place called "home" (the same one I tried to throw away!) and that home is filled with all precious and pleasant riches (Proverbs 24:3-4). I have a wife who loves me in a way few men will ever be loved: a wife who is willing even to die if necessary in order to be faithful and keep covenant. AND I ALMOST THREW IT ALL AWAY!

Precious ones, if the fires of bitterness and lust consume your life too, turn to Jesus! See the pure fire in His eyes. Turn from your selfishness (II Timothy 3:1-5). Receive the mercy and forgiveness Jesus Christ has provided when we confess and forsake our sin. Don’t be deceived: adulterers cannot inherit the kingdom of God (I Corinthians 6:9-10). The fires of greed, bitterness and lust will destroy life. The fires of faith, hope and love will purify life and produce true wealth. If you turn your heart fully toward the Lord Jesus Christ, you will know what perfect love is (I John 4:17-18).



Lorne H. Matthews

<small>[ August 08, 2003, 03:09 AM: Message edited by: LoveMyEx ]</small>

HI All,
I thought I would post LOSTVA's success story....
The kind MB legends are made of.... VINTAGE HARLEY..... enjoy this great story of hope <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ..

Hi, Missy!
OH, TNT, I do love you!!!

Ok, so you guys do realize that I tend to get wordy and talk WAYYYYY too much and you STILL want me to do this, right? I'm gonna touch on a lotta stuff here. I'd shied away from posting lately, but I've actually been ASKED my opinion!! You guys don't know what a mind-field you've set off here!!

Now, I'm not particularly wise and wonderful, but I can share with you my experiences and feelings, but that's all. And sometimes those feelings don't follow the norm, so be forewarned.

OK, history first, I guess. One Monday, last spring, Robert walked in after work. He leaned over to kiss me and I said "Hi, Honey, I love you." He said, "Hi. I love you, too, but not like I used to - we need to talk." That was my last kiss. And the night of the "I love you but not IN love with you stuff." Also the last "I love you" in any form.

Within a week, he didn't love me at all, couldn't stand the sight of me, our marriage had been a mistake and he wished he had never married me. Knew our relationship had been a mistake since the beginning (TEN YEARS???) and it never should have happened. Kristin didn't care for him at all and never would. His family couldn't stand us and we had ruined his life. He couldn't count the number of times he had wished I had been in an accident and died so that he could be released from these "pits of hell". We had NEVER had a good time, never really cared for each other like we should - he couldn't even remember the fun times. And on and on....All this was news to me! We were the couple that most people envied! We had had a hard couple of years, Mom's cancer, Papa's death, but I had NO idea. I wanted to die.

THEN, he told me about PT. She made him feel WONDERFUL. He finally knew what true love really was and he wanted to spend the rest of his life with her. He adored her 3 year old and she loved him. I had NEVER made him feel this way, we were never meant to be, etc......you know the stuff, right? The knife turned. We've all been there.

So, I came here and lurked. And cried. And couldn't sleep, 30 pounds in 30 days, all the standard stuff. One month later, he left to be with her.

When he left, I didn't know where he was. He didn't contact us, not even Kristin. He spent some time visiting his mom, but eventually, cut away from them as well. She was my greatest strength through this mess. Now, don't get me wrong, she welcomed PT into her home, the whole family did. They were afraid they'd lose Robert if they didn't. His sister called me and told me that Robert was finally happy and I should "move on". (Man, I hate those words, what DO they really mean???) But Mom called me daily once she found out what was going on and tried to spy as much as possible. We've gotten closer than I ever imagined we could be.

PT and Robert set up house. He already had her moved into a new place b/f he left. They opened joint bank accounts, he brought her HERE when I wasn't here to get some of his things, set her up with OUR doctor (she supposedly didn't have one), took her all around OUR town (they lived an hour away) as his girlfriend. Told everyone he ran into that we were through. In VA, you have to be separated for 6 months to get divorced and he said as soon as that time was over, we were done. Taught Leah to call him "Daddy". (That hurt worse than ANYTHING, believe it or not.) No financial support whatsoever. Took two vehicles so PT could have one. He called infrequently - when he needed something (until the last month), came by rarely, usually to pick up something or hunt. Didn't give me his address or phone number. Was cold and mean to me - wouldn't talk to Kristin at all hardly (except for once or twice during the whole time.) He was someone I didn't even know.

The first time I posted here, Deb responded first...."You'll be ok, you CAN get through this, there are things you can do." Ok, so there was NO way she could know..I mean, she could NEVER have hurt like I did, loved like I did, been treated as horribly as I was. Ok, I was wrong. She DID know! And she was right - so was everyone else.

I owe my friends here my life. They calmed me down. Showed me I wasn't alone. Cried with me, took deep breaths with me, got me through way too many sleepless nights, laughed with me, and kicked me in the butt and outta feeling sorry for myself when I needed it. I think that was the most important thing of all. And helped me find something to laugh at in the midst of all this mess. I soon discovered I was looking forward to waking every morning.

So, like she said, the rawness eased - the hurt found it's place, continuous sorta, but in it's place. I started paying attention to what people were trying to teach me, got rid of my stubborness and self-righeousness. Ordered books, read, read, read! And started thinking.

You know, Robert couldn't come up with one specific thing about me as a wife that was bad. Even said so himself. But, once I got rid of the old ideas and opened my mind, I COULD!!! I mean, I had worked my butt off to be a good wife, but..... You've heard me say before that he broke the vow of fidelity, but I broke a lot of them too - unknowingly. I wasn't the best PERSON I could be and therefore, not the best wife either.

And I thought about him too. I'd known this man for fifteen years - through good times and what I THOUGHT were bad times (this mess sorta changes your perspective!! ) This was not him...to abandon us, leave us to starve. He and Kristin were "joined at the hip". To say now that he never really loved her, just cared for her? Something was definitely not right. This was NOT him....not from my experience, or that of his family and friends (who he had now begun to turn his back on.) Sooo.....

Well, after reading a few books on the nature of affairs, looking realistically at my contributions to the state of our marriage, listening to my betrayer friends on this site, I started to understand. It took away the sting of his words and actions. Didn't erase it - just took the edge off. Through Harley's books and others, I learned about marriages and affairs. From Phil McGraw, I learned about myself. I was insatiable. My basic personality is to DO something. Now, I had a bit of understanding, AND something I could do! I got stronger and stronger. Sure, there were bad days. Thanksgiving and New Years come to mind, as well as one notable weekend w/ two LB letters. (BTW, I found out that he was thinking hard about coming home at that point and my letters talked him right out of it! The power of a LB!! I'm glad - I wasn't where I needed to be yet!) As I grew stronger, I felt freer. I realized that I had the power. He didn't keep me going, I realized it was up to me to do that, and to keep HIM going, too! Even though he didn't know it.

First decision. Do I love my husband? Yup, more than life itself - not the things he's doing now, but the man he truly is inside. Second. Do I want my marriage back? Nope - but I want a better one. Third - Am I ready to work for it? Absolutely!! I asked myself these three questions every single day. Every morning, before I got out of bed, I asked myself these questions. Same answer.

So I loved him. And respected and believed in the man I KNEW was inside. I learned to look PAST this behavior and into the soul of the man that I was convinced was still there. And tried to understand the torture he was going through - even though he didn't THINK he was. I knew now, right? I took the good little signs and they sustained my love. I blew off the bad stuff as part of the addiction. So it wouldn't KILL my love. I believed in him and lit a candle (still do, for us and all my friends) and every time I passed it, I told him I loved him and I believed in him. The coolest part was I was also beginning to believe in ME!! TNT taught me that, the power of words and belief.

Since I couldn't talk to him, I wrote a letter to him once a week and sent it to his mom's. Pop would deliver it to work for me. They were light, funny, flirty, news from home - like he was away from camp and homesick!! Works of art that I worked hard on at first, then seemed to come more easily. Somewhere in each letter, when appropriate, I compared something that I was telling him with a good memory of ours (and then this happened and you know it was just like when we....)and laughed about it. I ended each one with "I love you and I will always believe in you." I never took off my rings. He commented on that once - asked why I was wearing them - really angry sounding. I told him I loved him, I was married to him and I would always be married to him in my heart. He looked annoyed at first, looked like he was gonna yell at me and then got quiet for a minute. Then, with a strange look on his face, he said quietly "Thank you, Lori." I laughed and flirted when I saw him. Once or twice, I teared up, but not often. I saved that for when I was alone. At the end of each of the few visits, I hugged him goodbye and said "I love you." I got nothing except "You DO know I'm getting a divorce and marrying PT - no matter what. And even if I didn't marry her, I'll never come back." I just told him to do what he needed to do, but I'd always love him. I never discussed PT with him, never mentioned her name. I never discussed us or our marriage. If he brought it up, I'd just say I loved him and I wanted what would make him happy. No more. He'd just look at me like I had lost my mind.

At first it was "pretending". But I was working on me too, with the help of my favorite book by Phil McGraw. And I wasn't sitting around waiting. I continued to love him, but I had a daughter to raise and life was happening. I knew I couldn't support us and keep this house. She couldn't stay in private school. And I didn't have much time. I knew my job would be ending, just didn't know when. So I enrolled her in public school, started working on the house to sell it. Went to HS football games, shopping with friends, movies with the kids, whatever. I enjoyed more days than I didn't. And grew stronger. So, soon, I didn't have to pretend. During this time, I forgave him. Don't remember when or how, just all of a sudden, realized that I wasn't angry and didn't hold anything against him. Robert had held marriage sacred, had always been there for me, no matter what. Had NO respect whatsoever for any SOB who would stray and was very verbal about it. For a good, kind and decent man - the most wonderful man I ever knew to turn his back on everything that had ever been important to him - something was wrong. And I couldn't love him and not forgive him for something that took him over so completely. I learned to laugh. I began sleeping, I began to live. But I didn't stop loving him. I think THAT'S moving on.

Around Dec. he started calling a bit more, bogus reasons, favors he needed. Still talking divorce. But finally communicating a bit. I just listened. Never talked about us. See, now I wasn't "playing" him to get him back. I was REALLY his friend! You know? I cared about him, loved him and wanted what was best for him. Like a real friend would. So, it was getting easier most of the time. Of course, I still wanted him back, but, I wasn't obsessing anymore. He called one day at work, wanted the Dr.'s phone number and wound up getting really nasty with me. I patiently listened and let him talk, no matter what he said, and eventually discovered that he had had a seizure, the first in 20 years, the Friday b/f. Once I thought about it and the way I know my husband is, I realized he could've looked the phone number up in the directory. He needed to talk - he was scared. And, for him, scared turns into angry. And I was the target. Why? Because I was the one he could trust. And I was there for him. I found out later, I was right. Without even realizing it, when he got scared, he turned to me.

In January, I got that letter. And 4 days later, he asked to come home. We took a month to make the transition and see each other. He still had not said "I love you." That came during that month. So did our first conversations about us since that very first week. I found out later that he thought he came home b/c he decided he SHOULD. Now, it didn't hurt that PT had been a B**** and I had become someone he enjoyed being around. He told his family he really "liked" me now - I was still Lori, but "more somehow". And I really liked me too - a whole lot more than I did before. I was very proud of myself for what I was doing - for my marriage and for me personally. That shines through, I think. It seems that he had been doing a lot of thinking - for practically the whole time. And then, one day, he heard a song, and it stuck in his head, reminding him of committment and all that stuff. He pushed it away and wrote that letter - fighting the thoughts. Well, on his way over here on Saturday, he heard it again. And he decided. He couldn't "move on" until he had finished this. He was coming over to fix my dryer for me (the FIRST thing he had ever offered to do) and wound up taking me for a ride and asking to come home. No real romance there, guys.

The first few weeks were unsettling. PT pulled hard and so did his emotions. There's so much guilt and other stuff. He said he wanted to move out on day 3. He tested me constantly to see if I was real and if my love was real. And, then, very slowly, he became strong. And we began to fall in love. And now, he tells me he loves me forever, loved me even when he didn't love me (that makes sense to me for some reason) and that he's 100% "in love" with me (I hate THAT phrase, too, but I'll take it from him! ) He also says he admires my courage, respects me for respecting him, even when I had no reason to, and that my believing in him made him strong. I don't take credit for all that, but it sure feels good to hear it.

Ok, now for opinions. Don't blast me, ok? I never felt humiliated or shamed. We made mistakes and bad judgements, but...stuff happens. I had small spurts of anger - at specific THINGS he did and said, but anger has never come easily for me - I believe it's simply another way of showing hurt, so I never really had to deal with the slow burning continuous anger - I just let myself hurt and dealt with it. Tootrusting is right - we can't force them. THEY have to figure it out on their own. All we can do is be there and love them - if we choose to.... and that's what it is - a choice. We're not doormats or any such nonsense. We're strong and independent and coping with a difficult situation, thank you. And this is NOT for wimps! I can't think of anything less doormatty (like that word? ) than standing strong for what you believe in in the face of all the nonsense. But I'd be there for my child and I decided I'd sure as hell be there for my husband as long as he'd let me - and sometimes, even when he wouldn't. A lot of times it would've been a lot easier to run - For my short time, I chose the other path.

Robert didn't decide "all of a sudden". All those months of Plan A (I just do NOT have a Plan B personality!) were slowly building impressions that were eating away at his subconscious. When the time was right, a trigger (the song) brought them to the surface. I'm not so sure that he really did it to "do the right thing." I think that's the excuse for doing what he wanted to do, know what I mean? I mean, his love just grew too quickly to have just been "doing the right thing." He didn't change his mind quickly. Everything was slowing bringing him back to reality - we just couldn't see it. PT was being a B*****. I was being an angel. The fog was wearing thin. The letter was a last grasp to hang on to the "I'll never go back" thing. Fighting back against those nagging thoughts. I found out later that every time he left here, no matter how awful he was to me, he went home and was MORE awful to PT - or quiet and sullen. Then, he'd go out and do something WONDERFUL for her.....trying to hold on, know what I mean? Remember the little Dutch boy? A tiny hole in a dam is NOT a big thing. But that little bit of water, seeping through, DOES eventually break it down! That's Plan A. That's what happened to Robert, I think and so does his mom. It didn't happen all of a sudden, the damn dam just finally broke against the consistant gentle force of the water!!! (I just LOVE analogies - even corny ones! )

OK, warned you this would be long and I don't even know if I've helped at all. The saddest part is that it WAS longer....I actually pared it down a bit! TNT summed it up better than me.

Ok, so that's the closest I can come to a nutshell version. If I missed a question, let me know. I'll try NOT to be so wordy the next time around.

Good luck to you.

Love and prayers,

Lori

WOW. What a wonderful story! Boy, would I love to talk to her! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> So much of what she said is so much of how I feel (loving him even though...). I am so glad you posted that. I think I will print it out and read it again.

I, too, hate the phrase "move on" but I like her interpretation of moving on. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />