Hello All:

MB uses lots of abbreviations and acronyms. I wonder if there a glossary for these somewhere??

But this also relates very much to my question. I have noticed the use of "WS" to stand for "wayward spouse". This describes me then. I am a "WS" in that I committed adultery in my marriage. However, after I confessed my adultery, my x-wife immediately started an affair, filed for divorce, and eventually moved out. Aren`t I then also a BS, a "betrayed spouse"?

As for my x-wife, she classifies herself only as BS and refuses to admit that she too became a WS.
So as you see, it is rather confusing. Maybe I need to create a new acronym. FAWATABS; "First A Wayward and Then A Betrayed Spouse"?

How many out there feel that they are both a WS and a BS? How have your dealt with this?

Standing In Finland

I don't know... it sounds like she immediately left you after finding out about your affair. In her mind, she was probably divorced at that moment. This all sounds like technicalities... so I don't really thing that trying to determine who you are in this manner is going to be very helpful. Perhaps this is just tongue-in-cheek... I know that it really doesn't matter... you screwed up and she wasn't willing to allow for it. That is about the story...

There are others here who are both WS and BS. For some there is a long period of time between the two and, for others, there isn't.

technically, your both--

but I guess, the real truth of the matter is..

Your a man who was hurting and responded in the wrong manner to that hurt based on the fact you were married--

Something I've learned over the years..is to stop
looking at all the wrongs the other person is doing or has done..and look at what I'm doing, and did that was wrong--and change myself..

we are all sinners--and we all make mistakes..but
what truly matters imho, is how we deal with those mistakes...

Have we owned up to them?

have we looked at why we made the choices we did?

What can we learn to do differently in the future??

can we forgive them because of their actions towards us, just as we want them to forgive us, the hurt we've caused them by our actions?

but, from where I sit...I believe in one of your posts you've mentioned having kids...

So that makes you:

A father
An ex-husband
A friend
An employee
A son
A brother (if you have siblings)
An uncle (if you have nieces and nephews)
A grandson
A cousin (if you parents have nieces and nephews)

You are many things to many different people..
so try not to get hung up on the thing you did wrong..it doesn't describe who you are over all as a person..

yes, you made mistakes, but those mistakes are forgivable...even if others don't see that..
God is the one we seek the ultimate forgiveness from..if others can't forgive us, that is between them and God..

God wants us to ask His forgiveness and repent, he wants us to ask those we have hurt their forgiveness, but, if they choose not to forgive
that is okay...we have done what God asked US to do..and that is all that really matters..

From reading your posts, you confessed your adultry, sought forgiveness and stopped committing adultry..so accept the forgiveness God
has given (if you've asked it) and begin to work on yourself..

If you keep trying to work on getting forgiven
your in essence saying--"I'm sorry God, but I really don't believe Jesus' death on the cross was enough to wash away my sins..and I need to do something to help him out"

it's apparent, your ex-wife (wife if the divorce isn't final) has set up her boundaries, that adultry is not acceptable to her in the marriage..
so accept that boundary, and the fact that you crossed it, and this is the consequences of your choices...and figure out a way to accept and respect her boundary and move on..

Also take with you, what you've learned into a new relationship in the future..I did this, and it really hurt the woman I loved, and I never want to hurt someone else like that again..so I need to learn a new way to work through problems
when they arise..

So what do I do??

I learn the art of communication..I learn conflict
resolution skills..I learn to respect other peoples boundaries..as I want mine respected..

"Boundaries"; what a great word!

The very last part of TR`s mail triggered in me one of those "ah ahs". The word "boundaries" was used. I realize now so very clearly that my marriage lacked "boundaries". My x-wife and I set very few boundaries; and if some were set, they were too easily by-passed.

For us, a strong work ethic superceded a strong marriage ethic. I worked long, long hours and also was away on travel perhaps for one week every third month. My x-wife never complained. She herself also worked long hours (most often night shifts and frequently on weekends). I never complained. Perhaps it was that we did not want to stifle or limit one another because we had started our relationship at such a young age (at 17).

The only clear boundry set by my x-wife in our marriage regarded infidelity. Just prior to our marriage, she remembers making me promise that I would never ever be unfaithful. She also remembers saying that if I by-passed that boundry, she would leave. Regrettably, I did bypass it, and true to her word, she left.

As for me though, I never set any boundaries for her whatsoever. I maintained a very "open, flexible attitude" regarding most issues. I never "commented" about her moodiness; about her round the clock work hours; nor about the way she managed our home. But please friends don`t misunderstand here. My x-wife contributed wonderfully to our home life as best she only could. However, because I accepted "everything", and never complained, my attitude of "anything goes" likely made her feel that I didn`t care. Well, yes, I did care, but now I know that I just didn`t understand how to show it. I was afraid of any conflict; of rocking the boat.

Most damaging though was that I set no boundry for my x-wife regarding infidelity. Indeed I was ready to accept that she would experience a "physical" affair as long as I would know about it in advance. My misguided rational was that I did not want to keep her in a cage. With a very adolescent mindset, I wanted her to be free sexually. What resulted though understandably was her feeling that I did not care about her. I now truly understand her feeling. Before I did not.

Boundaries are so important in marriage. I now understand that because I did not set a boundry for my x-wife regarding infideltiy; it was far too easy for "me" to cross the line. Because I did not set a boundry, I did not follow it myself.

Have boundaries been a problem for other builders? I am very curious to understand why a person is inclined "not" to set boundaries in a marriage. I am determined to use boundaries effectively in my next relationship; whether it be with my x-wife or with someone else.

Standing in Finland

<small>[ August 25, 2003, 08:12 AM: Message edited by: StandingInFinland ]</small>

Standing,

yes, many marriages here have ended because of a lack of boundaries..or over stepping others boundaries--

---I am very curious to understand why a person is inclined "not" to set boundaries in a marriage. I am determined to use boundaries effectively in my next relationship; whether it be with my x-wife or with someone else.--

TR- Did you understand boundaries before it was mentioned here?? Did you understand what they were
and how to implement them??

I'd venture to say No, you didn't...just as many others didn't..many times we look at boundaries as
confining..and bad..but in reality they are healthy--and encourage us to feel safer in our relationships...

<small>[ August 25, 2003, 09:22 AM: Message edited by: ThornedRose ]</small>

Standing,

This is a good thread and addresses 2 issues...
Boundaries don't stop just because you're divorced. Don't forget to set them for yourself and X now as well.
I have been both, the BS and now the WS. I too did the same as your X. I found myself attached to the first person that showed me attention, soon after I found out about my STBX 3rd A. It was a defensive mechanisem and a way to close myself off from my WS. STBX would is trying to make his way back into relationship, but still doesn't respect the boundaries I have set. Continues to show physical affection reguardless of how uncomfortable it makes me feel. And doesn't respect that I dont want to be called everyday...just want to move on.
Make sure your boundaries are firmly set and don't cross each others.