My XH is one of those couldn't-be-gladder-to-be-rid-of ex's. Nothing he says or does should shock me.

Yet I still ache for my daughter in that man-ruled household.

DD is five, closer to six, starting Kindergarten in a week, and wanted her ears pierced. Almost three weeks ago it came up, and I made her wait and think about it for two weeks, to make SURE she wanted it, understood that it would hurt (but not for long) and that she'd have to take care of them, etc.

When she was still sure she wanted them pierced early last week, we went in and had it done. SHE got to choose the earrings, and she was SO brave ... not a tear, just a little 'ouch' once for each ear. She was SO proud of herself for that. (I told her I cried like a baby when I had mine done at 8.)

So all last week she's been showing everyone she knows, been really good about cleaning them, etc. This is her big deal and you'd think a parent could be happy for her, right? (She is almost as excited about this, as she is about starting Kindergarten.)

[vent begin]

If looks could kill, he'd have flattened me right there and then on the porch when he came Sunday night to pick up the kids and she showed him her new earrings. He didn't smile at her, didn't say anything to her, just GLARED at me and walked her out to the car.

WTF?

[vent end]

<small>[ August 26, 2003, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: ex Princess Buttercup ]</small>

Maybe because he wasn't a part of it??

Or that you did this without his consent or knowledge--

I know when my oldest got her ear's pierced on the top..her dad was like "Your MOM LET YOU DO THAT???"

And he called me about it..

I said.."well, she'd been asking about a belly button piercing or a tongue ring..and I said No, so it was a compromise"

He just said..."Oh, okay"

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ThornedRose:
<strong>Or that you did this without his consent or knowledge--</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I cut the part out where I vented about him probably being mad because she's HIS daughter and HE couldn't have CONTROL over it... I don't need his consent, and I don't mean that in a she's MY daughter too way ... just that you can't POJA with a rock. This is not like changing schools. I don't get permission before buying her shoes. (But he would prefer I did!)

As far as knowledge... he had a whole week with DD from the time we first talked about it and the time we did it... I know that his mother knew DD wanted it done, because I talk to my DD and she told me that her Grandma wanted to know if it was HER idea, if it was what SHE wanted.

This is the same guy who has taken his son for countless extra hours but when offered opportunities to spend time with just his daughter, has turned them down. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I really wonder if she has to wear a shell at that house, and put on a happy act, just to cope. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

<small>[ August 26, 2003, 02:12 PM: Message edited by: ex Princess Buttercup ]</small>

I understand you're concern. Try not to worry. We can't protect our kids from the world, or even when it's their parents.

The only good thought is Prince Humperdink will reap what he sows in his own good time. Exactly who does he think will take care of him when he's 95 and everyone else is dead?

And think of the positive men in your daughter's life.

You did the right thing, in having your daughter wait 2 weeks. And the taking care of her ears during the healing process. Maybe there should of been a comment to him that daughter is interested in getting her ears pierced. At this age it is so difficult to please everyone. As far as a child that is 13, that is a different story.

I think what your husband was showing is that he was not involved in the interaction of his daughter. He probably felt he was left out (which he was), and that hurt. So just a suggestion, that maybe in the future, when there are decisions of your daughter that are not minor, maybe you could suggest a little line of daughter is interested in getting her ears pierced?

Just my thought, I may be wrong, been wrong many times.

I don't blame him for being upset that you allowed a little child to make a decision like that. Fortunately none of my kids at that age would even consider allowing anyone to mutilate their bodies, but I am quite sure that her father would be understandably beyond furious if I allowed our little one to get her ears pierced without his knowledge or permission. This is not like buying a pair of shoes - it is, or should be, a medical procedure.

And in case you are wondering, I have 6 kids, two of whom are adults, and none of them have wanted to pierce anything.

Ya know, I can understand your point. My ex hasn't had 2 of our sons at all in the past 13 months. He's only had the oldest 4 nights the past 13 months. If my oldest son wanted his ear pierced (which he does), I'm not wasting my time calling my ex to get his opinion. If they are hurt and need stitches or something like that, I would make the call. But that's it. He's not interested in any other aspect of their lives, so why bother.

As for ear piercing...it's been around forever. In some countries it's a symbol of status or a rite of passage. Not a big deal at all. And if the child changes his/her mind about it, they can always grow shut. Nothing permanent, like a tattoo!

Maybe ask him if he would like to be informed of matters such as this?

Mitzi <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Mitzi:
<strong>Maybe ask him if he would like to be informed of matters such as this?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's the whole thing really, he doesn't care to be involved with her life, demands extra time with the boy only, but will use any excuse to make me look like a controlling, vindictive, even abusive or neglectful (remember the Poptarts and Lunchables examples?) ex-from-hell.

The only ear piercing conversation we ever had was when she was a baby, and we agreed that we wouldn't pierce a baby's ears; that the child should be old enough to take care of them herself.

BTW, he has both of HIS ears pierced (used to wear big hoops, only wears one diamond stud now) and a poor quality tattoo he got when drunk one time at a party.

Ear piercing is a big deal. There are many individuals, not to mention entire religious groups, that think it is wrong, and, even more importantly, it can lead to infection. I have personally known a number of people whose ears have become infected, even though they were a lot older than 5 and did take care of their ears properly. Why would anyone expect that a five year old could properly care for her ears? - most five year olds need some supervision in order to even brush their teeth properly.

Hello Ex-PB,

I consider you a friend and this is why I am going to be so straight forward with you.

On most threads you are right and your ex is pretty much a jerk, but this time you are wrong.

Legally you had the right but it was still wrong. He's the father whether you like that or not and this is his daughter too. He should have been consulted about such a big step.

As much as I can't stand the childrens dad, I try hard not to throw it in his face that I have final say on these things and if he tells me it is something he really doesn't want the children to do right now, I usually respect it.

Right now we are going through a decision of allowing my 11 year old to get an electric scooter. I asked him first before I allowed my son to purchase it. Who by the way has his own savings of over $350.00 from birthdays and Christmas' so the money is there for him to spend. However, my ex told me he doesn't want him having one because he's afraid he'll get hurt on them.

Bikes go much faster than this scooter, so I plan to talk to him and reason with him again, and I think I can convince him that my son should get one. If I can't then I will be faced with a huge decision and will probably decide not to let him get it.

It's all about respect; I am hoping some day if there's something I really don't want the children involved in at their father's house my ex will show my opinion some respect as well. It may take some arguing on my part and me pointing out the incident with the scooter,as well as other incidents, and also pointing out to him that in the future he may need me to bend again as well, but I know I'll have a little more leverage than if I don't keep him involved in big decisions at all.

If I were you I'd apologize to your ex for not involving him with such a major decision, and I'd tell him that you hope in the future both of you will consult with each other on major decisions. Then I'd tell your daughter that you were wrong for not involving her father.

BTW, how is everything else going? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

c'ya,

ANNA

My daughter started asking about ear piercing when she was about 5. I kept stalling her and said 'when you are older and can take care of them yourself'. When she was about 8, still talking about it, I said 'maybe when you are 10'. Later, I amended that to 11.

Through all this, her dad said it would be ok but he wanted to be there. I considered this sort of a rite of passage - a girl thing.

And I am sick and tired of him trying to control so much stuff.

So, I had her at the mall a day or so before her 11th birthday, knowing that she would spend most of her non-school time that day with her father. I asked her if she was ready and I thought she would burst from happiness.

Yes, I got raked over the coals by doofus. I simply told him that I thought it was a girl thing and that I had wanted to do it with her alone - just two women. He, thankfully, shut up about it.

You know when I was 11 and visiting my father for the summer, I told him I wanted to get my ears pierced but Mom had said no.

That was all it took, he immediately took me and had them done. My mother was furious when I got back home.

BUT you didn't do that. He knew she wanted them pierced and as you mentioned he had a whole week to voice his concerns to her and you. He didn't do it. I'm guessing you had absolutely no reason to think he had a problem with it.

So did you do anything wrong here? No! Not in my opinion. My father was wrong, not because he let me get my ears pierced but because the real reason he did was because my MOM had said I couldn't.

He did it out of spite, you did it because you loved your daughter and you believed you had taken the right steps to ensure it was something she was serious about and responsible enough to handle.

Nellie1 Wrote:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Ear piercing is a big deal. There are many individuals, not to mention entire religious groups, that think it is wrong. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nellie I respect your opinion but we are not talking about personal objections or religious oppositions here. The child's own father has his ears pierced!

Nellie 1 wrote:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I have personally known a number of people whose ears have become infected, even though they were a lot older than 5 and did take care of their ears properly. Why would anyone expect that a five year old could properly care for her ears? - most five year olds need some supervision in order to even brush their teeth properly. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Everything you said is true, but many have their ears pierced and never have any problem with infection. And there are some 5 year olds who don't need supervision with those things such as taking a bath, brushing their teeth, etc. Whether her child is one of them is not the point in my opinion. As her mother I believe she knows it is her responsiblility as a mother to make sure her daughter takes care of her newly pierced ears.

Her husband was just upset because he didn't have control over the decision. He had the option of giving his opinion but for whatever reason he didn't. She knew he was aware of his daughter wanting her ears pierced and she also knew that if he had any real objection to it that he had the opportunity to voice it.

In my opinion this is his problem, not XPButtercups.

Thanks everyone, for both the support AND the constructive criticism. This is really more than just an ear piercing issue.

He refuses to communicate, yet wants to know every time they sneeze.

His babysitter/mother knew, there was no reason for him not to. Unless he comes straight out and says that he would like to have a say in things beforehand, I'm not planning to apologize. He hasn't said one word to me about it.

Responsible doesn't mean left unsupervised to her own devices. I help with teeth, I help with ears. She does my ears too. :} While she was gone all week, Daddy didn't help her clean her ears. Grandma did.

I personally think it would be nice if they asked me before cutting the kids' hair, but they don't. Really nice when they come home with a chop job right before pictures.

A2K - I see your point. However you are assuming this is a person who can be reasoned with. ;} I cannot be Disneyland Mom and fulfill their every wish when they are with me, and once in a great while, I like to indulge them with something more special than a pack of gum. He and his mother refuse them (mostly the boy) nothing, regardless of my wishes.

I'm not saying two wrongs make a right, but I honestly felt no need to attempt to POJA this. I did not do it to aggravate him and had no way of knowing it would. Now when Grandma takes the kids to a movie in the morning that she knows I was planning to take them to after I pick them up that same afternoon, THAT is done to infuriate me.

My X asked me if she could give our 10 yo daughter piercings for a Christmas present, and I said no, I said, make them an elementary school graduation so that she has the whole summer without sports interfering to learn about them, and take care of them. . .

X went ballistic, but she cooperated, and i bought her the first pair of earrings and the girls will do the piercing. . .

but my point was, make the piercing a reward to work towards, and so a child does not just get stuff because she kept asking for it. .. that concept i have problems with. . . she gets them as a rite of passage for ? ? ? ? ?
(for my daughter, her grades started slipping, and so i tied them to her grades, and she got straight A's)

wiftty

Piercings are dangerous ------ consider where they use accupuncture???

I have pierced ears, I was past 18 when I did them, and to be honest, would not do it again. I recommended my kids not get them. My 18 yr old said she wants to get hers done - but seems complacent about doing it --- hummmm.

That said ---- I do NOT believe it is absolute right of the father to nay say or approve any choices. He CHOSE to leave the family home, therefore he lost part of those opportunities. If he had stated he was against it prior to getting it done - fine, that would have been wrong - but his little temper tantrum after the fact is HIS PROBLEM.

My ex chose not to participate in those choices, ER visits, or any other life events before he left - and I don't bother to contact him now. It's been more than two years since he's seen the kids now --- and it will probably be many years more. He isn't interested. I'm not going to waste my time forcing him to put in time ruining their lives with his bad attitude! I can't protect them from him - but I don't have to force him on them either.

Jan