Why do we females have to be the one to initiate talking about disagreements we have with our mate. My H thinks that everything is cool in the house when infact he has a problem with his attitude. Last night I talked with him and I asked him why de does not interact with his two boys and his response was the; "I have a good excuse, I am in the mourning and grieving over my brother's death and becasue of that I do not have the time...." WHAT???? It that a good excuse to neglect the boys who are 10 and 6. They want to interact with their dad but dad does not have the time - he does have time to watch tv all the time while I spend time with my kids in doing homework or reading to them nightly. I told my H that when and how do you expect to get over your B death. it's been almost 7 months ago and he hardly ever interacted with him when he was around so I know that the connection was not all that good until now. He claims that he is hurting and depressed but when I decide to make the move to go places or talk to other people then he gets involved. He is so controlling by way of telling me who to see and when I can go places. He is so insecure with himself and I can not take that. I have lived with him for 19 years and I am getting tired of him coming home and just eat then lay down to watch tv until 11 pm each night. When you ask him to do something with the kids he says that he feels depressed and not interested. This attitude hurts my kids and it makes me mad - Is this just an excuse or is it okay for me to accept what he does? I am at the end of my wits to throw him out but I feel sorry for him becasue he claims that he has no place to go. His mother passed on about 5 years ago. Has his dad but they are not close. Has 3 sisters but they are not close. Can anyone suggest what they would do or maybe have similar situation such as mine???? HELP!
I talked to him about his criticizm and depression but that is getting old - Am I understanding or is he playing games with me..... SHould I throw him out?
THanks for your response.

A husband's depression has a major impact on the family and has led to many divorces.

Tell him you are concerned about him and suggest grief counseling. And if you are lucky, he may get on anti-depressants.
Then you might be able to work on the M. He is emotionally withdrawn/unavailable. This happens alot.

Read everything on the Concepts section of this site, and try Plan A. That is, to be the best person you can be to draw him out of his withdrawal.
Good Luck.
Also, seek counseling for yourself.

This is something that was going on with me for a while towards the end of my marriage. While I did not have a death in my family and I did not sit around and watch TV, I do feel that I was depressed and didn't interact with my family as much as I wish I had. I didn't neglect them, but I was definitely not at my best. My problem stemmed from the sheer massive amount of work I was doing and the moonlighting I HATED but felt compelled to do 'for my family's sake'.

What I wish would have happened is that my wife would have sat down with me after the kids had gone to bed. She would have led me to the couch and sat down with me, holding both my hands in hers on her lap. Looked me in the eye and said, "Honey, I love you with all my heart. I am worried about you. I think that you are depressed and it is affecting us all. The boys included, but also our relationship as husband and wife. I do not like how we are interacting and I feel that a part of it is because of you feeling depressed. I understand that you are working hard, and that you are doing it for us. But regardless, how we are all interacting is killing our family. I have made an appointment for us both at a counselor for next 'Thursday evening'. I have a babysitter already lined up for the boys. I really think that this will help our family. We both need it. Our family needs it. I need it. I think you will feel better doing it as well."

My word, had she shown this much caring, I would have stopped the world and changed everything in it, much less my piddly little life. Had she done anything or any part of something like this, I might have recognized what was happening with us as well as what was happening to her.

Sometimes all the harangueing, yelling, and telling in the world is not heard. But a single loving word is like bombs going off in our hearts and ears.

Please don't 'Throw him out'... I think that you BOTH need help. Perhaps his resistance is that he feels that you are unreasonable in your request. Or perhaps he sees your request as attacking or your words as attacking. Or maybe he thinks YOU are part of the problem, but doesn't feel safe saying "You and our interactions make me depressed." so he says he feels bad because of something 'safe and reasonable' like his brother's death. Don't try to decide how he SHOULD feel. You don't have the right to think that "he wasn't even close so he shouldn't feel bad." If you try to decide how he should feel, you are not understanding anything about emotions and depression. But if you can recognize his pain and that he doesn't seem to be getting better, then you have the opportunity to rebuild your family. And that is the best thing for both you and your husband. BUT MOST OF ALL for your children. They deserve alot of work on this from both you and your husband.

I think you feel you have put in the work. But obviously what you have done thus far has not worked. If you value your marriage and your children, you must try something else. It has been said that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. I implore you to try what I have suggested. You have NOTHING to loose and EVERYTHING to gain. You, your husband, and your children deserve every bit of thought, work, and different attempt at preserving and rebuilding your marriage. If you are the only one at this point that can see that there are problems, then the onus is on you to work even that much harder at helping your family. Because if you are the only one capable of seeing the problem, you are the only one who has a chance at fixing it.

Sometimes there are a huge number of other 'things' occurring in the marriage contributing to the problems. I suspect that there are in your marriage as well. So if you are open and really want your family intact, be prepared for YOU being part of the problem right along with your husband. Be prepared for him to say that there are things YOU do that hurts or bothers him. Be prepared to work on YOUR part of the marriage. Don't expect for HIM to change and for everything to be better. Use this as a chance to change your ENTIRE marriage, both him and YOU. Because, if YOU are willing to work, I bet your life together will be wonderful.

I wish that my ex could have seen that she was just as much a part of our interation as I was. That when I changed and we weren't 'perfect' that it was because SHE hadn't changed. She wanted to do the same thing, and for it NOT to affect our interaction. I was seeing clearly and saw that this could not be the case. That I was willing to do everything I could to make our relationship better. But I could not change her. And our marriage required change on her part as well. When it did not come, she blamed ME for not changing ENOUGH and left. She simply could not comprehend that she was part of the problem. She thought that her only part was her infidelity. She thought she wasn't doing that, so she was perfect, and every other problem was me.

So what I am saying is be prepared to change your part if you want this to work. Even a perfect husband will not make a perfect marriage if you are part of the problem and refuse to change or refuse to SEE that you need to change. This will be a huge and wonderful time of change and compromise. If you can do your part and he does his, you can have a wonderful marriage. If EITHER of you does not do EVERYTHING you can to make things better, then you will not be happy, and your marriage could very well fail.

<small>[ August 27, 2003, 06:41 PM: Message edited by: Formerly Confused ]</small>

Thanks a bunch for your insight into our problems. Believe me, If only you knew how many times I've tried that approach. In fact, at one time all I got back was, "Will YOU please just leave me alone... WHat part of leave me alone do you not understand!" He was calm and then he got upset and said things that really hurt me and he never even apologized for them to this day.

He gets upset becasue he thinks that whenever I try to kiss up to him, he thinks that I am headed out to be alone, which he assumes. He is so controlling, he does not want me to leave the house unless I have a good excuse and normally I do. Whenever I try to intervene, he always says: "I want "YOU" (finger pointing an inch from my nose) to know that I don't have any problems, I am okay, I just want to be left alone.... I DO NOT need or want any counseling!" After this episode about a year ago, I just let him be but it got worst after he lost his brother.

I have to take care of him just the same as my kids. I work 8 hours a day, a mother 24-7 to 3 children and I pay most of the bills. If I am lucky he will help but I would have to beg him to help me pay our bills. He will do his part whenever he feels like it. I am tired of babying him becasue I need him just as well as the kids. The more he acts the way he does, the more i get upset over nothing with the kids.

Last night my youngest son said, "Mom, I hate dad when he is upset because he starts to yell at me for no reasons at all. I asked him what he was watching then he told me to get out and leave him alone....." My son was crying and yet all I could do was shrug my sholders and tell my son to leave him alone. This is not right! WHy should a 6 year old have to understand that his dad is like that and it is okay. This got me upset becasue his kids do not need this from him. They are children and they do not understand depression and grieving. All they know is that they need him.....

As far as his brother's death.... This is something that we all have to face - DEATH. But that does not give any right to mistreat people with. There are help groups or counselors that can help you but YOU HAVE TO WANT THE HELP or it gets the best of you. I grieved over him too because he was a friend of mine and a close brother to me but I cannot allow his death to control my feelings. I grieved his death but I let it go with the help of my counselor.

I have tried to reason with him about getting some therapy help or we could go to counseling but he refuses! WHenever he refuses, then i end up losing becasue it becomes useless to talk with him about anything to resolve the problem. I am done with talking nicely with him. Apparently that does not work for all men like yourself. I wish it could be so that way I can help him work on "US".

I may sound like I am the perfect one but that is not true. We have kids and we need to move on with our lives for them. I have made mistakes in my life time too but I learned from them. I am not perfect as a wife but I do know that he needs to grow up and realize that he will lose us if he keeps it up. I am upset to hear that he needs to be babied so he will change. That is not so with my H, he is in charge of his life and his surrounding that no one is allowed to change it! With this in mind, I was the one who had to learn to live with his abuse.

I go to counseling now and I have invited him numerous times but he refuses. I even gave him numbers to call so he can get help from other men but that does not work too. At one time, I called and made an appointment for him and he blew up telling me that I thought he was crazy and needed help. I told him that I was only trying to help him get started somewhere. He is ignorant to suggestions.

I have had enough. This whole thing gets me upset but whenever I get upset I leave the house and go jogging or I excercise it off. I don't allow the kids to see me like that becasue they did not ask to be born and this is not their problem.

I think my H will come to understand what cherish really means when he is out of the house. He will have to learn not to take things for granted, especially those that are most important to him.

I am sorry for this type of a response but it makes me mad that he deserves to be babied while I have to continue with his attitude and behavior. I have had it! I try to be understanding but if he refuses all suggestions, then he does not have a choice but leave then he can have the freedom to act the way he does on his own time and in his own space ALONE!

First of all, I have learned more of your situation with this posting.

I never said, nor did I mean to portray that you need to baby him. Being kind is NOT babying a person. Being abusive is just being abusive, regardless of who it is coming from.

If he has done the things that you say in this latest post, then I must say that you have done and dealt with alot. What I was meaning in my previous post is that sometimes we don't try the kind approach because we have built up so much anger and all the yelling hasn't 'worked' so we think that NOTHING will work.

Holding hands with your husband is not babying him. Speaking nicely to him is not babying him. Even understanding his pain concerning his brother is not babying him. Being reticent about whether he deserves to feel that way will only incite him to further disregard what you are saying.

Now, I am NOT at all defending him. Please do not think that. If anyone shook their finger at me or had similar behavior, I would be much more inclined to feel as you do. I agree, perhaps he does need to wake up. It is just that in your first post, I didn't get that you had tried being kind. I heard alot of anger and dissappointment. I heard alot of disgust... but I did NOT hear alot if any love. He should do this... He should do that... He shouldn't feel this... I didn't hear any I LOVE him... as a matter of fact, the word is not in your message at all.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Why do we females have to be the one to initiate talking about disagreements </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your experience is YOUR EXPERIENCE that is like me saying that all women are *****y.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> he has a problem with his attitude </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There is alot of attitude in your posts as well. I do not defend him, but I wonder how your attitude affects him as well. We all tend to think that others should act differently than we act and they should treat us differently than we treat them.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I told my H that when and how do you expect to get over your B death </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is next Tuesday good for you? What kind of a question is this. I agree that he might not be trying to do enough to get through this. I agree that he is passing up opportunities to heal by utilizing a counselor. I agree that he is hurting his family with his actions. I agree that you will most likely kick him out.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He claims that he is hurting </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He CLAIMS... Not alot of love and understanding in this remark.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am at the end of my wits to throw him out but I feel sorry for him becasue he claims that he has no place to go. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You feel sorry for him because he has no place to go. But not for the position he is in... What if... just WHAT IF everything he says is true. Depressed people have difficulty seeing that they are depressed sometimes, or seeing how it is affecting those around them, or that THEY need to seek the change. Just like narcissistic people will refuse to ever see that they act like they are the center of everything. (I am not calling you narcissistic, it just for comparrison) It is part of the problem... I don't know how he can fix it, because I absolutely agree that he has to want to fix it and only he can fix it. It is a difficult position for you to be in, I absolutely agree. And I don't know how to fix it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He gets upset becasue he thinks that whenever I try to kiss up to him, he thinks that I am headed out to be alone </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What in your history has caused him to think this?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am upset to hear that he needs to be babied so he will change </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Never once did I say that he needs to be babied. If I said things that made you think this is what I meant, then we miscommunicated. I meant that perhaps a KIND word and LOVE should be employed rather than a whip. And what if... just what if a little 'babying' led him to change and get out of his current place? Would you think it worth it? Would you think that dealing with him in a loving and understanding way is 'NOT RIGHT because he SHOULDN'T NEED IT' or would you say, well I love him and my family, and whatever works is worth their happiness. I KNOW he is not saying this to you, and yes, absolutely marriage is between two people. This post is NOT to defend him. I DO NOT defend him, but what I am trying to do is point out things that I see from your post. I might be absolutely wrong. But then again, something in my post might trigger a thought in you that allows you to better deal with the situation.

This reply may sound very harsh. I really don't mean it to be attacking. However, I do wonder from the tone of your posts just how gentle your gentleness is, and just how loving your love is. He might absolutely be a complete [censored], and if that is the case, I hope he is able to change. I just hear so much anger and frustration, that I feel that it should at least be pointed out and perhaps options given.

I simply cannot say "Kick him out". I absolutely do not think anyone should be abused, verbally, physically, or emotionally. If that is the case, then perhaps he does need to move out. All I am saying is that for a spouse posting about her husband, I heard NO love and NO understanding what so ever. Perhaps that is just me. I need no babying... he shouldn't either. But we both need kindness and understanding. Sometimes that comes in the form of holding hands. Sometimes that comes in the form of being lovingly asked to leave. But NEVER do I believe that it means being 'Thrown out'.

I am sure that this will anger you. Just know that it is not my intent. I support you and hope that your family is saved and rebuilt. I hope that he is able to see what he is doing to you, your children and most of all himself. I hope that you are able to see the same thing in yourself, to what ever degree it exists.

Just know that truthfully, I am just pointing things out that I 'hear'. NOT to attack or vilify you. I just wonder if there is any love left in you to do this in a loving manner?

<small>[ August 28, 2003, 03:14 PM: Message edited by: Formerly Confused ]</small>