Yes, Renae, why haven't you answered my questions?<P>[censored], I think the "hold" her husband has on her is the one abusers have on their spouses, but Renae can move beyond it, if she chooses. God and, possibly, Renae are the only ones who know why she doesn't choose to do so.<P>Renae, I don't know what kind of qualifications your therapist has, but she doesn't know much if anything about abusers and abusive relationships. The stress he's been under is an EXCUSE; it is NOT, repeat NOT the reason he's abusive. He will not "get better" when things cool down, though he may move to the more passive part of the abuse cycle for a little while.<P>DON''T try to pin him down or talk to him! You have "been there,done that" and it hasn't worked! DON'T make getting the order of protection contingent on his responses, Renae, or you won't get one at all. We'll just get more e-mails from you about how dreadful he is and how if he doesn't shape up, you're really going to do something about it pretty soon. You are LYING to yourself and to us, Renae, unless you follow through NOW, as in TODAY, by CALLING YOUR LOCAL DOMESTIC VIOLENCE PROGRAM! What your're going to do doesn't count; it's what you're doing right now that matters.<P>So please, Renae, if four things were too much for you to respond to, just respond to ONE: Leave your computer, go to the phone, call your local Domestic Violence program (If you can't find a number in the yellow pages, the police dept. can give it to you, so call them.) and tell them you are coming in TODAY for help leaving your abusive relationship! If you call your attorney, too, to make an appointment, that's nice, but it's not a substitute for calling the Domestic Violence Program, which you MUST DO TODAY!!!!!<P>One more thing, and I hope you read this even if you don't respond. I don't want another report on what your husband says or does until after you can report that you have called the Domestic Violence program. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but you are using MB and your chance to vent here as a substitute for doing anything about your situation, and in the meantime you AND YOUR DAUGHTER are getting damaged. The way you're acting makes me frustrated and angry, as it has frustrated and angered so many others on this website. If you're truly grateful for the support and are not just manipulating others, you MUST take action TODAY. No excuses or rationalizations!<P>SO...what did the Domestic Violence program staff say when you went in to speak to them? Please make your response to that question the first line of your next post.

She is just on a power trip. She thinks she has some power to save his soul. I call it hubris. PRIDE. A most deadly sin.<P>Her victims are her daughters.

misjudged this time, Karenna. <BR>It is not about pride right now, nor am I in any way able to save him, ever. <P>I had to wait for a critical appointment...Just got back from Mayo Clinic....daughter's health is #1 priority, & it isn't all about the marital situation. She is so emotionally charged (stressed, depressed) over this physical thing that to add a marital split to the equation at this time will only complicate matters while the doctors are dealing with the physical problem. Must not push her over the edge into serious depression. I've got to give Mayo this chance (couple new tests) & evaluation of her by two other departments...<P>if they can't help it, then I will be able to deal again with the marital matter, emotions, etc. In the meantime, the attorney is alerted to the situation....<P><p>[This message has been edited by Renae (edited October 02, 2001).]

Renae said:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>H came to me before 2 p.m. today & noticed I looked serious/sad. I felt the pressure in my soul saying, this is the time...go ahead, take your letter and confront him. It's been a week....see if he will repent, see how he responds. <BR>We had a half hour but he wanted me to "get to the point" ..so I held the letter in my hand but spoke from my heart.<P>I told him how much I have desired to have a deeply loving relationship with him. No response. I told him he works all the time and this doesn't work for us. No response.<P>I told him since Monday's incident, how low I have been and wondered if he would admit that how he treated me was wrong and repent. He denied & accused me of being at fault, so I showed him my bruises. He said I had just fallen, that he hadn't done it. <P>I then told him what really happened and that I had gone to the police; if I had shown them my bruises, he would have been arrested. He shrugged it off saying that isn't so. I told him the officer said I could even have him kicked out of the home for the kinds of behaviors he has done against me. Again, he was unrepentant. <P>I said I came to find out if you want to leave voluntarily and get help for yourself and repent to me or if you want me to turn you in to the authorities. <P>On his way out the door, he accused me of just wanting to attack him and argue about something when he's been so nice to me today. He yelled out..YOu're so argumentative!! (wanting our daughter to hear and believe that indeed I had been the bad person)<P>So, friends, I have again gotten proof for the millionth time that this man will justify himself and put me down any chance he can. He is not the Christian he claims to be. I felt shook up about all of this. I have so patiently tried to get him helped to a healthy life for him and marriage for us. But there is nothing else I can do now. <P>I tried to contact the therapist to tell her what happened today but I could not reach her, but it is time now to file the OFP. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Still no OFP? Alerting an attorney does not buy his services or get any legal protection whatsoever. It just gives you a line to tell yourself so you think you are doing the right thing. <P><BR>Any excuse will do. When you don't have a good one, you placate yourself with a bad one...<P><BR>You underestimate your daughters, just like you underestimate yourself. How about overestimating them the way you have been overestimating your husband? Huh? <P>Are you using them as a counterpart to the way your H has used them?

I'm sorry your daughter is suffering. Have the doctors determined whether the problems in your home are contributing to her depression? I feel sure they must be a factor--certainly couldn't be helping.<P>Why have you not contacted a domestic violence program? You need their help NOW, especially considering your daughter's situation. They will not force you to get an OFP, but they will help you with your current situation.<P>Do you recognize your strong tendency to postpone, make excuses, and avoid taking the initiative? Could you please explain why you haven't called the domestic violence program? Yes, your daughter needs your help, but that's not an excuse for not doing something that both you and she need you to do.

I believe that you said, last winter, that you were moving on December 26, 2000. What happened?<P>I guess it's true that any excuse will do.

If an OFP would wake H up to truth, it would have a good purpose. But H is set, very set, very stuck. All it will do is activate his revenge and make an inevitable divorce a worse nightmare. <P>An OFP will also abruptly disrupt the business (run from the home) and will throw the financial picture into chaos not only for me and the kids but extended family. This would be "shooting myself in the foot" and hurting others. Unwise. <P>Considering all dimensions of our life, I've decided, an OFP may give immediate relief, but will cause greater whole-picture damage.<P>I'll have to just move on, as H had suggested before, with planning for divorce. It is not the Biblical solution to H's problem or the marriage, but it is his decision. I can't make him change. I will have to go along with divorce.<P>I believe this is the only wise way to proceed and have the most peace and cooperation. <P>Thanks for all your input in this complicated situation over the past year. I believe I've come to a decision today that is the best there is. <BR>

I know we've lost some posts. But does anyone know how Renae is?

I don't know how Renee is doing. I hope she'll post soon and give us an update on how the legal proceedings are going and how her daughter is faring.

At Renae's request, I am passing on the following e-mail I received from her this morning:<P>"I have been unable to post at M.B. - it keeps saying that I am not logged in. I asked three times for confirmation of my password but M.B. doesn't e-mail it to me. do I have to re-register with a different name and password?<P>I can see the M.B. Board, that friends are asking about me. ([censored]) could you please post this response:<P>'The oldest D is still very ill (physically) and struggling emotionally. I am seeking more help for her.<P>The OFP plan blew up when H suspected I was planning it, so we are in process of dividing things up and filing for divorce. Although he is currently over his head in business demands, H wil be moving himself and the business out and he will allow the kids and I to stay in this new house for the next 6 years til the youngest child graduates from high school.<P>Last night I reminded him that I need him out ASAP because he continues to be abusive and can't see what he's doing! He says he has until the paperwork/divorce is final!!!!<BR>UGH!!!!!<P>In our first discussion of the arrangements, he was tough, blaming & shaming, but gradually that broke and the gentle man I married emerged...from that point on, H kept wiping tears from his eyes and finally was overcome with painful emotion about the divorce and lay his head on the table, burying his face in his arms and crying.<P>He thinks the marriage fell apart because he didn't block enough bad circumstances from hitting us (all external focus, not how he treats me!) He blames my parents for destroying romance. He is upset that I have not gone back to church with him for the past year and I reminded him why. He proudly proclaims that he hasn't changed and that I am the problem because I have changed in the last 4 years. (Oh, he is so blind!!!)<P>I have been reading Pia Mellody's book Facing Codependence, which describes two different codependent natures; one fits who H is (rage, intolerance, inflexibility, controlling, vindictive when one's demands on others are not met, etc.) and the other fits who I have been (too vulnerable, dependent, pleasing, self-sacrificing, passive, etc.) It all stems from some lack, abuse in one's family of origin.<P>My parents want to come, perhaps next weekend to visit!.....<P>Maybe it is finally time to break the news of what is going on, but how much do I say and how? It will be ROUGH!!!!'<P>Renae<P>p.s.<P>If anyone knows how Renae can post again here on M.B. - please post a response to her here. ([censored])

Thank you, [censored], for posting that. I just got confirmation of my password...I will try to post now...see if this works...

It works...I'm officially back! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Renae, I am so glad you're back! I'm even happier, though, that you have stuck with your program and are continuing to go through with the divorce. :You have grown so much! Not long ago, you would have folded as soon as your H. started crying, and now look at you! You're clear-eyed, calm, and doing what is best for you and your daughter. Way to go!<P>You have been in my prayers, as has your daughter. I'll continue to pray for strength, wisdom, and comfort for you, and good emotional and physical health for your daughter. <P>That book you describes sounds great! I'm going to have to check it out--thanks!<P>And [censored], thanks for posting for Renae.

((((((belle)))))) Thank you for the prayers and encouragement! <P>Sometimes I think I should have gone the tougher route of going ahead with the arrest (when H mocked me that police would not arrest him; all I had to do was go back and show the bruises to them), <BR>and<BR>the OFP (inspite of H's threats, the public disgrace we'd both feel,<BR>and the fact that I didn't want to stoop to his low level warfare of lies about our history.) <P>But if I had done that, his revenge would have led to a bigger fight. I wanted the kids & I to be able to stay in the house.<P>I am sad that he would not grow. Why would anyone want to stay in such miserable immaturity? <P>Well, I finally get to live again!! Yippee!!! <P><BR> [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

Big thanks to all of you for your support!<BR>I am feeling "relieved" right now and<BR>peace!

Renae, I'm still amazed at the change in you. Where did this newfound strength and resolve come from? Well, okay, I know the answer to that! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Prayers do get answered!<P>I don't blame you for wishing you'd gone the tougher route in terms of the arrest and OFP, but you were wise to set your sites on the long-term resolution.<P>A friend of mine filed for divorce after she found out her H. was cheating on her with three different women, and since both his attorney and hers advised against leaving the house (because it could be viewed as abandonment or something and would look bad in court), they had to live in the same house for months. It was very hard for her, but she was very glad in the long run that she'd done it.<P>Are you and your H. able to live separately in the same house? Do you feel safe? He sounds like a very volatile man. Please take steps to protect yourself and your daughter.<P>How is she doing, by the way?<P>((((((((((Renae)))))))))))))

Thanks, Belle!!<P>It appears we are safe. Things have been different since H & I both "let go" and he agreed to move out & he will file for divorce. He treats me with more caution & respect. He knows that I won't put up with any more abuse, 'cuz I have already been to the police and was on the way to filing an OFP and I will not hesitate again to blow the whistle on him if anything gets out of line. <P>I can't begin to explain the tremendous RELIEF I feel at this stage!! I already feel some of the peace I will have when he is officially gone. I will at last be able to live a normal life, freely. <P>At this moment the verse of Paul comes to mind..."I have fought the good fight, I have kept the faith..." <P>It's been hard, but I am glad I stayed to see all the proof of his heart... esp. as he was confronted by that pastor, counselors, etc.... I am glad for all I've read and learned thru people like those of you here at M.B...So I will never have to look back and wonder if I misjudged H or if I tried hard enough. No regrets in that sense.<P>I could not leave when the first two counselors told me four yrs ago to separate. I was too enmeshed...couldn't even see the outside world! But I have grown, found myself apart from it all, and with God, I will go forward as a whole person and show the girls a better normal life before they become adults. I am grateful that the strength for me has come in time to still show the girls something better! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

You go, girl! [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] Please keep us posted as to how things are going for you.

Renae, <p>Has he moved out?<p>Has he gone back to applying pressures?<p>Are you going to be able to stay in the house?

He runs rental properties and several home units are being vacated (people moving before winter)...
also doing outdoor repairs before winter. He's gone most of the time....(extremely busy, & not getting time to move himself & his office stuff out of the house yet.)...<p>Mostly he says nothing to me except as it concerns divorce plans. But Yesterday a.m., he told me that the last things I'd told him were not Biblical at all, and that when I went to police & wanted to file the OFP it was just all my feelings being distorted & running away with me 'cuz, see, women are all feelings like that, they are distorted, so this is why God set men in leadership in the church & headship (in home)to run everything..
(repeat of how he's talked before,
that women are irrational & men have to think for them, etc.) OH HE IS SO SICK!!!!!!! He said he doesn't trust me since I yelled & it hurt his ear (he can't see how his abuse caused me to yell!) He accused me of projecting unto him....(revenge for me having told him that he projects his stuff unto me)<p>I hated his sick talk!!!... He was going to talk more about the divorce but instead slipped in this garbage...I didn't leave the room soon enough...I must avoid him at all costs! It really wrecked my day yesterday & I still feel the effects of it... I can't have anymore of it...it just drains the life out of me...I need him out so badly NOW!!!!! <p>We were going to the discount attorney to get info on divorce today or tomorrow....he hasn't given an appointment time to me (possible that his work is delaying it til next week). But he has not changed his tune that we are divorcing.<p>Yes, the girls & I will stay in this house, with his financial support until the youngest is thru school (6 yrs).<p>[ November 01, 2001: Message edited by: Renae ]<p>[ November 01, 2001: Message edited by: Renae ]</p>