I sent the letter below a year ago. About 8-9 months after our divorce. I was the one that asked for it and I know I paid the price for that, but I was hoping to gain some further insight because I haven't been able to move on....I have a few questions because the more I am out and talk to people, the more weird my whole situation has become. My ex's response to this email was that she needs to be good to her new boyfriend/fiancee and that we shouldn't talk anymore. And we haven't. 2 Christians never talking again after a 13 year marriage that was better than most.

1. Am I wrong in thinking that I should have at least gotten a sit down conversation from her after this letter. Didn't I deserve that ? I'm not talking 2nd chance, I'm talking face to face because I never got the closure I think I needed and hence, 2 years after the divorce I am still hurting and trying to get her out of my mind. I still have dreams.

2. I go out on dates, some have been with women who have been abused and I have not encountered or heard of ANYONE to where they just said after a long marriage that they never talk again ever. Why did mine end like that ?

3. Factoring in 13 years of marriage, almost 2 of dating and that we were the first each other dated, how is it possible that my letter below didn't even give her pause ? How is is that I have been messed up for 2 years, and yet she found someone before the divorce was even final ?

4. She has now dated 2 guys in her life and married them both. Sure God could have arranged that, but the odds of that are staggering. I have yet to have a 'great' date, but she found a 2nd spouse the first time out ? Some of the women I have gone out with have been searching 20+ years for a mate and found nothing. It blows my mind every day.

I haven't posted in awhile, but to be honest, nothing has changed mentally in me as far as moving on since the last time I posted, which was awhile ago. I have been reading A LOT of books. I am currently reading Charles Stanley's newest Finding Peace, but even though the books point out things that make sense - I still have an empty feeling.

One last question. I have become an infinitely stronger Christian than what I was a few years ago. I point that out in the letter, my wife always wanted that, and yet her answer to that was "great, then I should make someone a great husband in the future". This ties in with her saying prior to the divorce "if we get a divorce, that is that...I'm not going to be like some of the people I know that go back and get back together for 2nd and 3rd chances that never work." The whole concept of Christianity is based on forgiveness.

Anyway, it's like I have a 15 year hole blown out of my life. I can't have any memories of her because it's too painful. 15 years, just gone. I'm sure I will make someone else a great spouse from what I have learned in the future. But what I wanted, was her.

I have asked some questions and now I have something to tell.......if someone tells you they have changed and there is even a spec of feeling left for them, at least sit down with them and look them in the eye and find out. You will be able to tell if they have. The day of the divorce hearing in court as I said "yes" I wanted the divorce, there was a big part of me thinking "what the #$^%^ are you doing ???" - it's all like a dream to me now. I used to have a lot of anger that she moved on like that. I don't anymore, I wish her well and I'm glad she found someone. I couldn't talk to her now because I would probably throw up if I saw her and saw a ring on her finger and it would probably throw my "moving on" timeframe right back to square one - but I wish things could have turned out different. I know she loved me and hope she didn't just settle on someone else because I hurt her too much in asking for the divorce.

I guess I'll never know, maybe it's better that way since she's remarried now.

=====================
------, Hi, how are you doing ? I know I am violating what you told me about contact, but this is something I just have to do......

I know I broke your heart. I know I was a bad person. I know I did a LOT of things that many may find unforgiveable. I now look upon the last year of our marriage the same way I do the days of my affair - it's like it is someone else and not me. I'd like to say I was possessed by Satan those final days of asking for a divorce. I'd like to blame it on someone else, but I can't. I did it. I am to blame. I made the mistake.

I know you are seeing someone else now and pretty seriously by what you've told me. But, I only care about talking to you one last time here to let you know what I have been going through and what I am hoping/praying for. I spent 6 months just praying from December to June. Just praying and a lot of time to myself. I tried to get closer to God and what he wanted and expected of me. That time is priceless for what it has done to and for me. Late December/early January I weened myself off of ALL porn. All the DVD's/tapes are gone, all the things on my pc are gone. All the links are gone. I did this for God, not you. And that is important. It was you that I hurt and made me realize what I was doing was wrong, but during my time of prayer I knew it had to be done for God and me if it was going to last because I might have a relapse if I didn't get you back because my reason for getting rid of it would be gone. Now, my reason for getting rid of it will always be there. I know it hasn't even been a year for 'porn free', but still it's a start. I know I can slip, but I know I have the strength to quickly right myself now.

After 6 months of waiting/praying/hoping that you might reconsider, I finally started listening to other people that I should move on. This was in spite of everything God was giving me signals on. Late June I did go out on a double date with another girl as a blind date. That was a total bust. That night I had a dream we were back together. Then, late July I decided I would give it another shot. I haven't even gone out on my own date, everything has been someone setting me up on a blind date. Again, that very night I had a very vivid dream that we were back together and I hugged you. And lastly, I just tried it for a third time.

This time there wasn't a dream, but that next day, which was a weekend, I had one of the worst days of my life as far as missing you and wanting to be with you. I will leave the personal details out, but it was very painful for me as no matter what I did that day I just kept thinking of you. These dreams were already in line with the ones I had been having about every month. It started in December when I had a few dreams about us, not talking, just sitting there. Then a month later I had one about us sitting there and talking. Then came another one just like that. Then one followed with us not talking, but there was this feeling between us like we had settled something. Then came the dreams after my dates. I didn't understand why I was having them because everything in the real world was in total contrast to them.

And that is the way it has been for me for 10 months or so. Everything I do or think about still revolves around YOU. I ride my bike and I just get caught up in missing you. I take a drive and the same thing happens. I go play softball and I just wonder what it would be like to see you sitting there watching again. My hobbies have become more time-killlers than enjoyment. I use them to try and take my mind off of you. They aren't approached in the same manner as before. When I cook, I miss having you there to eat with me.

I KNOW I don't have a leg to stand on. I know I messed up as big as anyone can mess up. I know I hurt you. Again and again. But, I also know I love you. I still love you. Enough to want to humiliate myself, lose my ego, drop my pride and once again reiterate how much you mean to me and what a mistake I made. The fact you are with someone else now has no effect on how I feel about you. You could have been with a different guy every day since the divorce and I don't care. This isn't about someone else. It's about me and you. It's about who you want to spend the next 30,40,50 years of your life with.

I cannot say enough how sorry I am.

In your final email to me you talked about consequences for my actions. Well, believe me, there have been consequences. Big time. I have found out what it is like to feel the pain of missing somone you love dearly every day and hour of your life for 10 months. I have paid every day for my actions. Not a day has gone by that I haven't had to deal with what I did. My own error. My own screwup. It feels like it's been decades since I saw or talked to you and it hasn't even been a year.

I just hope you can think about what I am saying as far as us trying once more. I wouldn't ask if I really and honestly haven't changed. I have always been honest with you about everything. I am being honest now. I have changed. God has changed me. God has worked on me every day that we've been apart. I was all set to try and suck it up and leave the ball in your court after our final email exchanges last spring. But, God stayed on me. Through dreams, thoughts, times of prayer. Through no matter what I am doing, having the memory of what it would be like if you were there with me. I thought that would lessen over time. It didn't. Many things I want to do I still pass on doing because I know the pain of not having you to do it with would be too painful. Even something as simple as going to the fair. I had to leave almost as soon as I got there this year because I just kept thinking of you. The day after my 3rd date set it back to day 1. That was an act of God and that is why this email is happening.

Then, I had a 3rd date. It wasn't just the date. Missing you had been building over time and just trying to be with someone else was what set off the feelings again. Have they gone away for you ? Is this new guy everything you want in someone ? Does what I say anymore even matter because you would refuse regardless of if you were with someone else or not ?

I don't know the answer to any of these questions. I know all the prior responses I got from you I deserved. I can't change the past. I can try to change the future. It is better to feel the pain of another rejection, than to regret never trying again at all.

I know there are MANY times/cases/instances of us not getting along, fighting, etc. I am not going to do another walk down memory lane on the good times. This email is not about the past. It is about the present and future. I feel we had MANY happy times. I have MANY great memories. I miss you now like you wouldn't believe. I love you so much, not just as a person, but still love you as a wife. I tried to suck it up and move on, but it's not happening and that can only be for one reason. That you are the one for me. I have changed and would never say so if it weren't true. Sometimes you don't know what you have or had until you lost it. This is painfully obvious to me now.

Thank you for reading this. You are always in my prayers no matter what you decide in the future. I had to try one more time because I have been praying to God to either let me move on or for us to get back together. God has not let me move on. I don't know what message you are getting in your prayers, but I sent this to find out.

If it's not too much trouble to ask, if you could reply to this, even just a blank response so I know you received it, I would appreciate it. I don't know if this is still your email or if you still check it. I hope you give it some thought. I believe we can be happy with other people, but I know I will never be in love with someone as much as I am in love with you. That is why I am sending this. Please give it some thought.

Love,
---------

<small>[ September 07, 2003, 02:52 AM: Message edited by: whatalife ]</small>

Dear whatalife,

All I can say is that truly was a beautiful letter, and I believe truly sincere. You gave
it your best shot for reconcilliation w/ her.
And if anything good came it is the changes
that have been made in you. She is truly the
one missing out now. I know you don't want to
hear this, but I hope you can go on. Ask God
to help remove the thoughts that hurt you so.

The dreams I'm not sure if they are from God, or
from the trauma the divorce has done to you,
and the pain of wanting her back so much that
you dream about it.

I pray the effects of losing your wife will be healed, that you will be able to go on, and
possibly enjoy new friendships. It takes practice in getting out there. Ask God to bless
your every experience with people.

May he comfort you this night, hold you in His loving arms, and heal all your hurts.

Ladysheep

Closure has to come from inside of you, not from someone else. In time I hope the memmories become less painfull.

I would suggest you stop looking to her, and keep looking to you for your answers. If you write more letters, dont send them, burn them or keep them. Continue on your journey and the healing will come.

I'm sorry you had to go thru this. If it's any consolation - I was married nearly 19 years and Divorced 5 1/2 years ago. Haven't spoken to my ex-wife since - although she did send me some extremely HATEFUL DEMANDING SELFISH emails a few years back. We have not spoken since August 5, 1998 and I don't think we ever will. Our son returned from Iraq 2 months ago and she was stressing everyone out about 'Well! I'm not coming down to see J---- (our son) if Harold is coming too.' She remarried less than 5 months after our Divorce.
These things happen. You have gotten some excellent advice on your Thread. Please follow it - and put your ex-Wife out of your mind - she belongs to another now and you need to move on and either find new love or stay single. I am not trying to be harsh because I know this hurts. But you have got to move on and put this behind you!
My best wishes for your Healing and Renewal, my Friend.
HLT

It's hard moving on when you've spent almost half of your life with someone. Memories of almost everything are with her. A small example is just living in a house. Since the D I have been in an apt - so whenever I go for a walk in a neighborhood or just drive around, the HOUSES remind me of living with her. That's bad. And a few months ago when a date wanted to just take a walk, I spent the whole walk looking at the houses and remembering. I cut the walk short, but didn't tell my date why.

These books (in addition to the one I listed above that I am reading) have helped, so maybe they can help anyone else out there too.

Charles Stanley - Seeking His Face

RC Sproul - Now That's a Good Question

Dobson - When God Doesn't Make Sense

Charles Stanley - How to Listen to God (I read this one while I was having dreams and it said sometimes God speaks to you through dreams. It's hard to determine if it's God or your own mind creating them though)

It's just tough now that I am out dating and talking to people more about the situation - the more that, even though I was bad, I don't scratch the surface on how bad some others are, and yet they get chances over and over again.

I can say this - no one should marry the first person they date. You learn so much on your own and dating others. Things I wish I would have known upfront. Things that the man my wife married was able to learn while he was single. I look at it like I am on the same page as that guy AND had 15 years with my ex, but he won because of timing.

At least I will know when the next girl is right for me, she will be the one that makes the pain go away. I just haven't come close to that at all. I just hope God's plan for me isn't to stay single - I know it could be, but I hope not.

Thanks for the comments.

We all have those triggers of the past. I saw a note on the counter the other day and thought of him. I went to a wedding and remembered ours and how we were so in love. I hope and pray they die down with time.

"At least I will know when the next girl is right for me, she will be the one that makes the pain go away"

How about healing the pain yourself instead of putting that burden on another person. My ideal would be both me and someone being whole and healed and having a healthy relationship, instead of a needy relationship. You can't look outside of yourself for someone to make you happy and to complete your life. Its somethig you can only do for yourself.

I think what my pastor told me soon after the divorce when I went to him for advice/help is true. He said what I have encountered is probably worse than having your spouse pass away while you are alive (his first wife did pass away) because of the fact she is still alive and now chooses to be with someone else.

I can say (with no disrespect to my father), that the pain I have encountered the last 2 years is worse than when my dad passed away in '98.

And of course it's all compounded by the fact I bought it all on myself.

Anyone contemplating divorce should think about that. No guarantees on if you will get back together if the divorce turns out to be a mistake. But then again, maybe mine wasn't a mistake as far as she's conerned.

whatalife,

very touching post.

i havent been divorced for a month yet (separated for 3 months), and i get some hope from this website that marriages can be put back together after divorce. but both parties have to be willing.

i only hope my wife realizes her mistake sooner than later. she kept her thoughts to herself for 7 months, and then sprung it on me when i least expected it. it was a knee-jerk reaction that wasnt totally thought through. mine was not a situation of infedelity. just marriage was just lacking the emotional needs on both sides.

however it is discouraging, the time frame that it takes for the leaving party to come out of the "FOG". not to be too harsh, but you may have been in the "FOG" too long. the grass is NOT greener on the other side.

Good Luck, and keep saying to yourself that "it is never too late for anything".

Whatalife, I am so sorry for what you are going through. I am right there with you. I totally am right there with you... I feel many of the same things and totally understand (well, I'm sure not completely since we are different, but...).

This is the very reason that God HATES divorce! It causes so much pain. And I would agree with you that the pain is greater than a death of someone because of all the rejection, anger, hostility, etc. involved... from the one you love the most, the one you said, "til death" to, the one you have raised children with and shared your life with. Divorce was NEVER God's plan! Neither was sin. Sin hardens people when it goes unconfessed and divorce happens because of people's hardness of heart.

I know it just about kills you, but I truly believe you are doing the right thing by not dating and by grieving and struggling. I can't date either. I just have no desire to. Well, first because I still want to reconcile with my husband (he's engaged) but also... well, the thought of loving another man... it's like it goes against all that is within me. IF I ever remarry... it will not be for a very long time. I want to heal and not jump into a new relationship to do the healing for me.

You said, "at least I will know when the next girl is right for me, she will be the one that makes the pain go away." I also think that this is not a good thought. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Let Jesus make the pain go away... in His time and in His way. Go through the pain, offer it to Him as a sacrifice.

"He is close to the brokenhearted."

"The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise." Psalms 51: 17)

Yes, your wife should have forgiven you and been open to reconciliation. The Bible says that if we do not forgive others, God will NOT forgive us. That is a very scary thought. It also says in 1 Cor. that we are not to separate or divorce each other and if we do, we are to remain unmarried or reconcile. There is exception made for fornication (any sexual sin) or desertion by an unbeleiver, but even in those cases, if repentance is shown, there still should be an offering of forgiveness. God commands us to forgive!

Your wife, however, did not forgive you it sounds like. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I am sorry for that, and you cannot make her forgive you. I do believe you made efforts to seek reconciliation. And yes, it sounds as if you sinned against her (pornography) but there is no sin that is unforgiveable. It may be that the hurt and bitterness in her was very great, but the Bible says still that we are not to harden our hearts.

I am truly sorry that she has chosen to remarry. And that you listened to advice of "moving on." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> That is why I hate that advice and think it is poor advice.

The Lord can redeem all of this. He can restore your strength, your hope, and your joy. You are still griving and should not "move on" by denying that. Although, you also need to get through your days. What you are reading is good. I also read the James Dobson book. He is very good.

Being in church, reading those books, praying, and being in the Word will help heal you. Now, I have done these things, including fasting, for 10 mos. and I am very much still grieving and mourning. I am getting through my days, but I still, like you, miss my husband very much and have a hard time accepting it all. It does seem unreal and I really understand how you feel about the memories, etc.

I truly am sorry. I think you should put thoughts of dating aside for now. I do not think you are emotionally "healthy" enough (I know I'm not!) and you would possibly get into something for the wrong reason. Your wife probably did that. In fact, she might be very unhappy, even though she might appear happy.

Satan is the one who lies and says that we are unchangeable or that something is unforgiveable. He is the one who separates. God is the one who unites and heals and restores. God is the one who changes and forgives.

Somehow you need to "let go" and it is very hard. I "let go" by being in the Word and prayer and pouring out my heart to the Lord. Some days I am extremely downcast in my heart and some days I have peace adn thank the Lord for that. I know that my only choices are to go through it and to slowly heal or to harden my heart and hate my husband. I refuse to do that simply because of what it would do to me. My only option is to suffer the pain and to seek the Lord and trust that He will get me through each day, changing me along the way. He will do the same for you.

Especially pray about your thoughts re: her new husband and marriage. What I mean is, I know how almost tormenting those thoughts can be. Thinking or wondering if he is better than you, if she is happier, etc. I wonder these things about my husband and his fiance, but it literally will torment my mind with great despair and sorrow, so I try hard not to think those things. Her new husband is not a perfect man and is a sinner just like you. They will not have a perfect, trouble-free marriage. There is no such thing. Every marriage is work. He will have his own temptations and bad days and things that will irritate her.

I truly hurt for you. God forgives you for your past sins. Accept His forgiveness and seek Him each day. These sorrows you feel will not easily go away. People say that "moving on" is healthy, but I personally beleiving that moving on is unhealthy because alot of people who quickly "move on" never deal with the pain or the bitterness or the problems that came with the divorce. It is harder to not "move on" and to take the time to heal and deal with things than it is to "move on" into a new relatioship or into a life in which you hate your former spouse and "write him off" as a j-e-r-k, etc.

Well, there is much on my heart to say to you, and yet, I feel I have almost said nothing here! Stay in church. Stay in the Word. Try to get involved in ministry... something in which you can give of yourself to others. These things will help you focus on something else, at least long enough for a short break from your sorrowful thoughts... and the Lord will also bless you. Read Psalms.

P.S. I think that I too would literally "throw up" if I saw my husband with his fiance or their rings, etc. I live far from him now and probably God protects me from further pain in that way because I literally feel sickness when I think of him remarrying. I mean, literal stomach nasea. To know or see or beloved loving another person... well, it was NOT the way God intended it to be. It makes me realize how He must feel seeing us turn from Him to love other things. I think what you feel is God-given in a way. What I mean is... well, your wife was YOUR wife. God made you ONE flesh... for life. For that to be "torn asunder"... it's as if you have lost an arm or leg or flesh torn off your body. (I remember feeling that way after the divorce).

Only God can turn your wife's heart, but she also has chosen to enter into a new marriage. She did not accept your desire to reconcile but you did the right thing and God will bless you and honor that. One of the hardest things is accepting that we can't convince someone to do something right or that we desire. It kills when we love them. We have to entrust both them and ourselves to the Lord.

I better end this. It is long and I don't know if I have brought any encouragement or insight at all. I hope I have. God will not let this pain go to waste. He will use it in your life for good. May He comfort you and be near you and give you rest and peace of mind.

1 Peter 5:10 "And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal glory in Christ, AFTER you have suffered a little while, will Himself RESTORE YOU and make you strong, firm, and steadfast."

1 Peter 2:23-24
"When they hurled thier insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly. He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sin and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed."

p.s. Did you know that Charles Stanley's wife left him a couple years ago?

OH.. I also wanted to tell you that last week (or week before?), there was a week long series on divorce on FamilyLifeToday ministry. You can listen to it online here: http://www.familylife.com/fltoday/default.asp?id=6967&past=1

There are 5 days of it and you can listen to it on your computer. I cried through most of it but it is pretty good.

God bless you and be with you. My prayers and support are with you as a Christian sister really understanding where you are (emotionally).

p.s. Do you have children?

AM I understanding correctly that YOU are the one who had the affair???

You had the A and you wanted the divorce, and she moved on and you can't get past the love you HAD for her????

Get a grip!!! You didn't LOVE her - or you wouldn't have messed around on her - you were in the soup! Somewhere here there is that place where you pay the consequences for your actions and move on.

Deal with it - she did. She moved forward and is happy and content, and you want to mess with her mind again....

No way.

Get on with your own life - you messed hers up enough!

Jan

I wish I could say I feel differently whatalife, but I have to agree with sj*trouble*. When you cheat on your spouse and when you hurt her as much as I can only imagine you did by reading your letter to her... this is unfortunately sometimes the price you have to pay.

Accept your mistakes and learn from them. Let her go, she deserves to be happy and without any more hurt or interference from you!

I wish you luck but most of all I hope you learn a valuable lesson from this pain I know you are in.

I agree...

I am very sorry that it took this type of thing for you to realize what you had and now want it back. But you did.

You don't DESERVE anything further from her. She gave you her life as a partner, and you showed her scorn and ridicule by betraying her. If she gives you something, perhaps that is good. But you don't DESERVE anything at all from her. What she freely gives as far as answers, thoughts, and consideration is what you deserve, and perhaps you don't deserve that. But if she is a good woman, Christian, and person, she might be able to do what she chooses in HER OWN way to help you with your feelings. But man... you made the choice. God will forgive you and help you, but that doesn't mean that you are free from the consequences of your actions on the world.

(This is like the women from Dixie Chics, who said after waylaying Bush in London, "We live in a free society, there is freedom of speech." My thought is yes we do live free, that means no one will throw you in jail for your words. That DOES NOT mean that you are immune to the consequences that those words bring about. You are free to choose to sin and receive forgiveness, but that doesn't mean that you are free of the consequences of that sin. - Perhaps God sits up there and says, 'I forgive you, but you have chosen this path with your actions, and while I will not hold it against you, your path is now one of rocks and boulders rather than grass and gentle rolling hills. I will love you regardless, but you will have to traverse very different ground because of your choices.')

Leave her alone... She deserves for you to be out of her life to the degree that she chooses. You deserve for her to interact with you on her terms in an appropriate manner, and if that means NOT AT ALL... then so be it. You don't deserve hate and anger, but you don't deserve love and respect. Those are earned... and you definitely gave them up with your past choices.

Take care, and I pray that God will help you to find your way. I don't suspect that it will be easy at all, and in my opinion it shouldn't be. I still wonder how much of this letter was for YOUR benefit rather than the relationship. Until that feeling of entitlement is no longer there, you will never be truly deserving...

<small>[ September 13, 2003, 01:23 PM: Message edited by: Formerly Confused ]</small>

whatalife,

How I wish I had your wife's self-respect and strength. There are times now when I regret not divorcing my H the first time he refused to cut off all further contact with his EA friend from work. Or when he finally told me he didn't love me, never had, and never wanted to make love to me again. Or when our son and I were mugged by a violent loon (whom we had arrested and who served 7 months in jail) and that same night he went off on a moment's notice to help his "friend" with legal papers related to her father's death. Or on 9/11, when I heard from a neighbor that she had seen him walking on the street, talking on his cell phone, and thought he was talking to the office. (The office was completely closed; he was talking to his "friend".) Or when we were invited to a party, and he refused to bring me. Or when we were invited to another party, and he went without me. Or when I finally got up the guts to hire an attorney, file the D papers, and he asked me to try again.

There are people on the site who forgive their cheating spouses and reconcile. SOme of them recover. Others endure more cheating.

Don't worry about forgiveness from her. She probably has forgiven you. That doesn't mean you get another chance. Nor that you get to lean on her for help in your healing process. You betrayed your friend, your life partner, broke promises made before God and your families.

If married people knew that it was a certainty they would definitely lose their marriage if they didn't respect their spouses, they wouldn't risk infidelity. Anymore than they would swan dive off a 50 storey building, expecting a safety net to suddenly materialize.

This pain is yours alone. It's not her duty to help you. It's good that you have a relationship with God. With grace, that will always be there to help you. A Christian counselor may be the way to go to your healing.

I am truly APPALLED by the things I just read in the last 4 posts!!! Things like "you don't deserve her." I'm sorry, but NONE of us "deserves" any one! None of us deserves anything for that matter. We are ALL sinners!

There is something called FORGIVENESS!
-------------------------------------------------

JAN, you took little thought to your words. First of all they are very harsh and judgemental. Secondly, you are speaking harshly to someone who is hurting. Thirdly, there is a lack of truth in them. When you say "get a grip!" PLEASE People!! GIVE MORE THOUGHTS TO YOUR WORDS!! Good grief! You just don't say such harsh things like that to people who are hurting and repentant as well!

Don't tell people they don't love someone either. JAN... You do not even know this man or his wife!! Who has made you the judge over whether he loves her or not??? Or to say he is "messing" with her. That is just wrong period, for you to say that based on one post from a man you don't know... one in which he is obviously broken and contrite.

What you are basically saying is that only unloving people have affairs. As if loving people are perfect or something?? MANY marriages survive affairs and many other things. Like I said, you do not know the circumstances yet you are sitting here totally condemning this man. (Oh and by the way, he didn't say he had an affair).

Like I said, your words are EXTREMELY lacking in tact, kindness, and compassion. They are judgemental and harsh and very unkind. The type that would drive a hurting person to do something to themself! I sure hope you are not a counselor!!
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ONEDAYATATIME,
How can you possibly "agree" with such condemning words? I am just literally almost speecheless at what I've read here! YES, there are consequences, etc... but PRAISE THE LORD... there is also forgiveness and restoration! Thank the Lord that He lets you live because I'm sure that each of you have sinned every day in your own ways... whether it is selfishness, anger, judging, or whatever! None of you "deserves" anything either!

God's will is not for us to be "happy"! That is such a lie!! To me, it seems like all anyone cares about it their "happiness."
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FORMERLYCONFUSED, your words were also HORRIBLE! You and Jan will both be held accountable before God for what you have said and for the manner in which you have said it. If I were you, I'd get on your face and seek His forgiveness because you have totally condemned and wrongly judged this man, who you don't even know! How dare you make yourselves his judge!!

Tell me where in the Bible (I see you mentioned God) where it says that adulterers who've repented and sought God's forgiveness "don't deserve" anything! Oh my goodness.... so what does he "deserve", Formerly Confused? You basically see it as his wife being "better" and more deserving than him because of his sin. That is WRONG and very unBiblical.

King David committed adultery and murder AND he was still a man who LOVED God AND he married Bathsheba. God didn't even say "you don't DESERVE" her like you are saying! NO... this man who KILLED her husband also married her. Like I said, none of us "deserves" anything.

It is OBVIOUS that this man KNOWS there have been consequences! He showed great remorse over his sin. Yet, here you and SJ are continuing to beat him over the head with his sin!!

Heaven forbid you have ever sinned! Boy, I hope you and SJ live perfect lives so that your life isn't one of "rocks" because of your sin.

You said, "you don't deserve love and respect." I cannot believe what I am reading!?? They are "earned?" What kind of love are you talking aobut here?? Not the love I read about in the Bible!!

This man is a creation of God just the same as his wife... she is NO BETTER than him and he no worse than her!! Love is not something any of us "deserve." It is a GIFT from God! And wow... can you believe it?! He actually gives the gift to SINNERS! Gasp! Even adulterers! Oh no! It sounds to me as if you are still believing in stoning an adulterer because that is what you've done here with your words.

You have not only spoken condemnation to him ("THERE IS NO CONDEMNATION FOR THOSE IN CHRIST JESUS!!") but you have also questioned his heart and his intent! Yet you don't even know him!!

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I am truly DISGUSTED at what I've read as "counsel" in the last few posts!

<small>[ September 13, 2003, 06:55 PM: Message edited by: LoveMyEx ]</small>

Whatalife,

I am truly sorry for what was said to you these past couple posts. I highly recommend you not come to this site! I will share with you that for the most part, it is not Biblical... this said from my experience here. Although the "prayer" thread is full of very godly, compassionate, prayer warriors. But as for the rest of the website, there are alot of hurting people who are bitter and angry and thinking very wordly ways.

Yes, adultery has consequences, BUT I think you know that! I also didn't read that you had adultery? Maybe I missed it? But you know what, it doesn't matter! You know you sinned and you have repented and sought forgiveness.

The Bible is clear. We are to forgive ALL people and every sin. Your wife, if she has not forgiven you, is sinning and God will not forgive her! That is what God is all about.... forgiveness. Our world is a mess because people judge others and label them "unforgiveable" or "undeserving." Not so in God's eyes and HE is the ultimate JUDGE and His Word is all that matters! What these two women (men?) have said to you is wrong, and I do not want you to let Satan speak to you condmenation through their words!!

Now, if you were boasting about your sin, that'd obviously be different, but there is a broken, sorrowful, repentive heart in your words.

I honestly would advise you to not come in here. I do not think you will find good support or compassion (although you did with the first few posts). I share very, very little about my situation because I don't want to get bad advice (like you've gotten). There are other places that are better.

Turn to the Lord! He will heal you! He will comfort you and help you! Be in your church. You are FORGIVEN, Brother!! FORGIVEN!! Washed as white as snow. Redeemed by the blood of Christ who has wiped your sins away. God sees them NO more. In His eyes, you are a SPOTLESS lamb!

Satan would love for nothing more than for you to be condemned, both by others and yourself, for the rest of your life. Yes, your sin has caused great damage and has consequeneces, but there is no justification for a person not forgiving someone.

Since your wife is married, you do need to let her be now. In my opinion, you did what you could and you did the right things. You confessed your sin, you sought forgiveness. God didn't bring her a new person because she "deserves" it. She probably was not at all emotionally healthy enough for a new marriage and my guess is that she got into it out of her for the same reason many people go quickly into second marriages... to stop the pain rather than deal with it.

I will be praying for you! My heart is truly deeply grieved at these words given to you in here! I am so sorry that you came here for that reason.

Keep pressing on! Keep reading those books like you have been. Keep seeking the Lord. Your sin is forgiven. Do not go back to it but do what you need to to keep growing towards healing. If you go to a counselor, which could help, make sure it is a very godly, Biblical one. Any worldly advice you receive will ultimately damage you. Seek only Biblical counsel.

This website, by the way, is not actually a Christian one. I thought it was when I first came her. But it's not and there are ALOT of people who are actually anti-Bible and Chrisitanity.

My prayers are with you. May your healing quickly come! May the Lord be ever near you and may you know and feel His presence, his comfort, his nearness. I pray also for the healing of your wife. Only God can bring it (not another man). I pray that she too seeks the Lord and that she does choose to forgive you eventually.

Sin is very serious. But it is forgiveable. I KNOW your heart is contrite and sincere and repentive. I can see it in your words.

I feel as if you have been "stoned" by those two women, and slightly by a couple others. I am so truly sorry for the words they chose to speak to you and the manner in which they did it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
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Psalm 130: 3-4 "If you, O LORD, kept a record of sins, O LORD, who could stand? But with you there is forgiveness...."

Prov. 28:13-14 "He who conceals hsi sins does not prosper, but whoever confesses and renounces them will find mercy. Blessed is the man who always fears the Lord, but he who hardens his heart falls into trouble."

1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."

Rom. 8:1 "THERE IS NOW NO CONDEMNATION FOR THOSE WHO ARE IN CHRIST JESUS."

Psalm 103:12 "As far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us."

Isaiah 1:18 "'Come now, let us reason together,' says the Lord. 'Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; thought they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool.'"

<small>[ September 13, 2003, 06:57 PM: Message edited by: LoveMyEx ]</small>

Thanks to the comments from ALL. Yes ALL. But I have some parting words/thoughts.

First, it sounds like there are a few that have been burned by a wayward spouse. I understand that pain. But also understand if you haven't been through an affair, the end of the affair where YOU are the one that made the mistake, then I doubt you will understand.

One thing I now know. If I am capable of having an affair, then ANYONE is at ANY time. Anyone that knew me before would have bet their lives I would never have done that. I would have bet my own life. Yes, I should have tried harder to stop it, but the way it went down was scary. Scary in that anyone would have caved. I am 35 years old. I was married to my highschool sweetheart, the only girl I ever dated, kissed or anything else. My 'first time' was at age 19 on our WEDDING night. I waited because she wanted to wait and make our first time then. We dated a year and a half and no one believed us that our first time was the wedding night. So yes, I have self control beyond 90% of the population.

But, I won't say there isn't a curiosity that will always be there. That was a factor in what happened. I had gone to night school. There was a girl there in her mid 20's and to be honest she was smoking hot. But, I was there to learn, I was married and I didn't pay her any attention. Talked a few times during class over the quarter, but every time we were release for lab (computer classes) - I went home without a 2nd thought.

Well, coincidentally we ended up in the same class the next quarter. It was then that she started sitting next to me, talking to me, asking me questions and then started slipping in "can I ask you some sexual questions about your marriage?". She was married and as dumb and naive as it sounds, I STILL didn't have a clue she was making a move. Her problem was not getting enough at home. Over many weeks we talked and she got more bold but also had told me about her life, growing up, and hinting at being abused by her dad and also being neglected by her husband.

Still I was dumb, naive, idiotic. Still had no clue that behind everything she was getting to me. Turned out we worked near each other. She would email me about class and questions. And she invited me to lunch. I told her I have never gone to a lunch with a woman 1 on 1 before and not sure about it. She invited a friend along. I reluctantly said ok. (yes, it's easy to look back now and see the slips).

I was still INCAPABLE of having an affair because I was in control of my life. I was not saved, I bowed down to no one. I was the most honest person anyone could have met in their lives prior to this. And it continues.

She asked about hanging out after class to chat and asked me about a kiss. She said there was no harm in a kiss. At this point I told her this could go too far and we needed to break it off. I should probably drop the class. But she was convincing and said not to do that. That she had done it before and it would be 'fun'.

This is why NO ONE SHOULD GET MARRIED BEFORE THEY AT LEAST DATE ONE OTHER PERSON FOR AWHILE. My curiosity was peaked. As sick as it was. I caved. With all her stories of abuse and neglect she was able to get me to drop my guard. She had pulled other stunts just to get into my car with things like "I am parked so far out because it is so crowded tonight." So I offered to drive her to her car (this was early on). I even did exactly that - took her to her car, got out and opened the door and said have a good one. I did think it was strange that she wasn't parked that far away from me though.

I found out later that she had wanted to talk in the car. I was like duh. Like I said, when I don't think I am capable of something, I am not on my toes in preventing something that I didn't think would ever happen anyway.

So, after caving from the kiss, feelings came out of that that had been underlying. That was the 'hook'. Like this board likes to call it, that's when the 'fog' set in. When I look back, it was more like a hit of cocaine and now I was addicted.

Anyway, the rest of the story is obvious. But after breaking it off with her, my wife never had a clue. But I knew for the marriage to work I had to confess. So I did. It broke her heart and mine. Even with that it took me 6 months to get over the affair - the girl, the pain, the guilt even after my wife moved back into the house and forgave me after a week.

We were divorced a year later. Why did I ask for it. Well, to be honest the affair still weight heavily on me even though my now ex-wife had moved on from it.

If the whole thing makes you sick, I guarantee you don't have the feelings I have over it. Imagine someone controlling your body and they make you pick up a gun and shoot someone. Then imagine they release you. Now you look at what you did and feel like collapsing and have a sick to the bone feeling. Now you realize that you are one of "them". Those people that you yourself had always talked bad about and there is no taking it back. You are now in the club of someone that has always cheated. Imagine trying to date and when someone asks the question "have you ever cheated on someone" your normal answer of no is now yes. What are you supposed to do, lie and say no and start the whole relationship off with a lie - or tell the truth and more than likely you will get dumped and continue paying over and over.

In a very strange outlook on this, someone who has cheated and is internally sorry for it is actually LESS likely to cheat than someone who has never cheated before. I can identify the signs more easily now. I know what it's like to do it and what you will have to go through to get over it and how you will effect others.

Posts on the boards around here back this up. Any cheater that did it and is truly sorry will actually be hit with more sorrow and pain than the one cheated on. The reason, because the ones cheated can stay on their high horse and look down on the other.

Once it reaches a certain point and the 'drug' is in the system......anyone, and I mean EVERYONE is capable of slipping. We are all human.

You may ask what made my wife forgive me - well there was a definite change in me afterwards. No doubt about it. The biggest sign of that is that I bowed down and became a saved Christian. I was shown that I am not in control of my life. That God rules and to think otherwise will just compound your problems.

I don't get upset at people ripping me for what I did. How can I ? It is a huge mistake and any ramifications are justified. You are right, I can't get mad at my ex for what she did with moving on. But never talking to me again (she covered herself by saying it was because she needed to be good to her new man) is NOT the Christian way. If she still thought I had a problem, then she should stay in contact to help. Just state that no relationship talk, but that anything else would be fine.

Yes, I hurt her. Yes, I am following her no contact. But to be honest. From what I have seen of the world she has been extremely sheltered. I am horrified at some of the things women put up with in relationships in the stories I hear from them on dates. And yet, there are very few that ever give the treatment that I am getting. But each case is different.

Shortly after the divorce and after hearing that my ex had moved on and was with someone else, I went through what I call a 'crying phase'. I would on a regular basis just have moments where I would curl up in a ball in the middle of the room and cry and just say over and over "I'm sorry."

I understand the bitterness. I also understand that not everyone is sorry for an affair. I also understand that I had a 15 year hole blown out of my life because of all this. I have grown tremendously in 2 stages from the most negative things in the world.

The first was the affair, in which was the last push I needed to become a saved Christian.

The next was the divorce, which was another huge push for me to become a better Christian. 2 places where I failed God used to turn positive.

I have no ego now, if I did I would take offense at some of the advice listed. All I can say at this point to those that are on their high horse - watch out. Because right now, and this may upset you, but you are now more likely to have an affair than I am.

Let those without sin cast the first stone. I don't throw stones anymore.

As for the kid question - no kids. We had 2 dogs, I got one and she got one in the split. Next to my ex, I miss my other dog terribly. I knew her for 11 years since she was 6 weeks old.

And a direct message to sj trouble.

I never stopped loving my wife, not before the affair, not during the affair, not after the affair and not during/after the divorce. Sadly it sounds like you have been burned big time to have this outlook. If someone uses and becomes addicted to cocaine, do they stop loving their spouse ? I am telling you, it was like that as hard as it is to believe.

Sin is always there. Those that are unsaved fall more easily into sin. I fell in the affair, and then while a new Christian (and anyone knows that a new Christian gets slammed in the tug of war between God's now testing you and Satan po'd that he lost you) I fell again in asking for a divorce.

Yes, I have grown in leaps and bounds. That's why I asked for her back. I can give her everything her new husband could have and more and we wouldn't have to wipe 15 years of memories.

She has moved on and I let her, but ripping into someone (and that's what you did) is wrong. I hope I heal and I hope you heal, because we are still the same in that we have things we both need to get over.

<small>[ September 13, 2003, 08:44 PM: Message edited by: whatalife ]</small>

WAL ;

Ok..I was not judging you.Yes, you didn't need a reminder of your pain or scathing comments from me. So.
I hope you will accept my apology.

While it is clear my post was deleted, I will be more constuctive in any future posts.

I am truly sorry you learned a terrible lesson. It is my sincere hope that you can move forward with your life and be truly happy and fulfilled once more.

Gregg M.