When W returned our children yesterday,, she could tell i was bothered,, she kept asking if i was mad and or upest,,, i told her i wasn't happy with her,, that i wanted no part of this divorce,,remined her how she has never accepted anything i have said!! then handed her my good-bye letter, jumped into my vehicle and left. I had my older two already in the van,, waiting for the younger two.

Today, the phone rang, i heard an exciting *hi.* i said hold on, i'll get (daughter) She said i actually called to talk to you,,, We spoke for over an hour,, this time she spoke of good times between us,,,laughed and such as if we were like friends???????? I don't know,,,,

But I'm still STANDING!!!

<small>[ September 08, 2003, 07:27 PM: Message edited by: Stephan ]</small>

Hi Stephen,

I was wondering how you were doing. Good thing I just found this.

You know I think that is what it takes sometimes to do as exactly what you did, and say good-bye.
Sometimes it takes that to let her know you are serious.

But now I don't know what to think after her reaction. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Is it good or bad that she talked about the good times. What do
you think she has in mind??

I'm glad your still standing, me too!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Ladysheep

Hi Ladysheep,,
I'm not sure what to think. In my letter I told her that if she never calls me again, I'll accept, and respect her decision,, so the next day she calls!!! I do know that the mixed messages that i *feel* i have recieved, thats what keeps me unbalanced.
I recieved two emails from her last night,so far i haven't responded. No change in how she addresses, and ends, her email. She just starts, and then ends with a period.. But she has started talking about other things anyhow.
Yes i wonder if its cuz she feels as though the pressure is off, and can begin with just a platonic relationship. If thats the case, sorry, but at this time, I don't think and or feel as though I can be just a friend.

When you said *I'm glad your still standing,* me too. Are you standing? I remember reading your posts regarding your situation, but i thought you and your spouse were together?? Sorry,

Hi Stephen,

Yeah I understand that she is giving you mixed messages. You see you write the good bye letter and she tries to contact you all the time. I don't get it either, except maybe she wants your acceptance no matter what she does. Why is she wanting to reminince w/ you about old good times??? Is it a game to keep you hurting or do you think she is sincere??? You've done your best at it, and to let go and think about what you really want now is probably best. It not worth the fighting, wondering what she is thinking day to day, which is mixed up anyway.
Maybe she is just calling to really see what is on your mind, and what you are intending on doing. Don't give her the time of day. Don't make what you are doing her business, except w/ children of course.
And your right she just keeps leading you back to wondering and mixed feelings again, which is not healthy.

At this point you are just guarding your heart, and I believe that is a good thing because you have to raise those children w/ the best sound mind you can have at this point.

Is it now she wants your respect/friendship or is it a game??

What I meant is I'm still standing by faith.
H and I are still together. No major problems at present. I'm just trying to keep a sound
mind myself. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I can't let worry and mistrust
overtake me or I'll be in trouble. I have let
go quite a bit the past few months, and peace
stays when I do that.

Ladysheep

Ladysheep, apparently its a game!!!
All the talk, all i can do is speculate> No way of kowing what her true intent was. All the talk,,, I didn't know,,, her emails had changed, so in the last one i sent her, i opened up, in a way, reminding her i gave my good-bye.
This mornings email was back to strictly cold, with a few capital letters. I had asked a few questions, she didn't answer one of them.
I responded abck to her, was sort of *as a matter of fact.*
Yesterday she informed me she was going to be in town, i asked would she be stopping by, or picking up daughter, for her glasses. No answer, either way.
She was in town today. I came home found a note in the door, saying hi, and i miss you, love mom, this was addressed to both of our children only.

Its so difficult, because i hear and see what our children aree saying, and going thru.
I dropped our 3 year son off at Head Start. He started grabbing any and everything, trying to hold on to whatever, and crying quite intense, saying no, dad, no. please dad no.
The head start lady picked him up, he started hiting her, and crying all the more!!! Guess who else cried? The lady said, *he'll be ok,* So i left. Granted, i don't know much about the seperation anxiety, but i do know i don't like doing this, to my son! If it was to be just a simple case of seperation, maybe i could handle it,,,

I will be making other arrangements!
ttyl,

is it now she wants your respect/friendship or is it a game?
I don't know, may i ask what is respect? friendship,, anymore, i really struggle with the thought of any friendship. Please don't take me wrong, but i don't know if I even want a friend in her,, i want to fix/save my marriage,,, but!
Do you understand? I keep allowing myself to listen, and trust her. And why? Just so i can give her one more excuse to make another excuse?
I asked my counselor is she by cahnce ever heard of the, venusian lady!? lol
No, she hasn't.

Hi Stephan,

I don't blame you. I think you are doing the right thing as far as no contact w/ her. She doesn't stay stable in her emotions, so it's difficult to say how she is going to act from minute to the next.

Was today your son's first day at Head Start. It's normal for him to cry when you leave the
first few days. I know it's hard. I've cried too. But once he gets used to it, he'll love it
and probably will look forward to going. Don't worry!! He'll be fine. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Ladysheep

Hi Ladysheep
No its not my sons first day. This is maybe hos sixth.
I know its normal for some kids,, my first two, they were satble and secure. If they cried, it was so small. With my three year old, today was the worse I have ever witnessed.
I'm not sure if i ever mentioned anything before,, For the two monthes that W had custody, when i had to return our children, I had to return them to two perfectly well strangers. Neither of the two have ever met these people. My children were not even allowed to call me!
Both my children would run down the sidewalk crying!!! My son, if he thought he had to change his clothes before he had to leave, he would attempt to grab every article of clothing he had on, and like scrunch all up, grasping his clothes, and crying, no, no, no, I no go daddy, please, as he was balling his eyes out! In my van, they, but more so my son, would grab, and hold on tight to anything he could grab!!! Again, pleading with me, begging me, no daddy, please daddy, don't make me go, balling. Not just crying, but balling their eyes out. You want to talk about tugging on any heart strings!? It was so impossible for me to remain with dry eyes. I couldn't manage,

Yeppers, i know he'll be fine. The last few times when i was there to pick him up, he was so busy playing,,, that is until he seen me, and then he was pulling me towards the door. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Ladysheep, can i ask you a personal question? Can you ever be a part time mom?
I'm confused, at how a mother can so easily choose to do so!? Do you understand? how can a *mother* worry, and think more about her own happiness, before her child/ren. I didn't carry them, (in a way i did, not physically) and i just can't imagine being a part time dad. Especially by *choice!*
TTFN <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Awe, that sounds so hard on your son to go to Head Start right now. How long does the teacher say he cries after you leave? I think as he gets to understand that you will be back for him, (at this time, he doesn't understand time) so he's not sure you will be back. But as he learns that
it is a schedule to go in the morning and he knows that he will return to you in the afternoon, it may get easier for him. But that sure would make me cry too. Does he have a favorite blanket or stuffed animal that you could bring w/ him to school? Or would the teacher allow you to sit in the room with him for a while before leaving?

He has also been separated from mother, which has to be so hard on both of them, so he may be scared to be separated from you too. Just keep reassuring him he will always be with you, and no one will take you away. I think his insecurity and fear come from mom leaving.
Maybe when you leave in the morning, he thinks
your not coming back. Just keep reassuring him??
Poor little guy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

As for me being a part time mom, NO WAY, I could not do that. There is no way I would do that to my children. I was a single mom for 16 yrs years before getting married. It was very difficult for them w/out dads. Nothing could separate me from my children, it doesn't matter how hard times get, they stay with me full time. I'm mom for life!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> How your wife could, I don't know. It boggles my mind too, but it's her thinking not mine. Many men do the same thing, so I guess some women too, but it's not usually the norm. I do know that more men are single parenting their children now days than in the past. Either way, it's not easy on the children. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> But it is best, if parents are seperated, for the the children to live w/ the stablest parent, IMHO.

Ladysheep

Oh Stephan, just hold them children alot in your arms, lots of nuturing touch, hugs, kisses. Also soothing back rubs before bed (they love) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Ladysheep

His teacher says he stops shortly after i leave.
He always brings a favorite toy, and yes i can stay there as long as i want.
Yesterday she also informed me that he stays to himself,, and when the other kids are done eating, he will then go to the table and eat, by himself. Its sad!

Seperated from mom, i'm not so sure about this. For soo long when mom would leave,(work,store) he would just wave to her. Now when i would leave, this was a whole different story!

I'm sure with mom not being here, has an impact on him. For so long, when mom was here, for the most part all she would do was sit, and stay on the computer, day after day, night after night. Saying this was her escape.
My W had only maybe five hours thru the day, before she had to leave for work. I changed my schedule, so she could sleep until about 10am. Thats when i needed to leave,,,
I think i posted this url before, not sure??
http://www.afastpitchaffair
this is one of the sites my W made, for my daughter.
She started making on for our cancer daughter, it was suppose to be mostly about angels. There is a story relating to Veronica and angels, before we knew she had this form of cancer. We're convinced that two angels were visiting, and watching over her, for months. it was never finished,,,

I reassure him daily, actually hourly. My little daughter today informed me i tell her too much that she is my special girl. There is a song i always sing to her, just a silly song i sort of made up.
I tell, reassure all four of my children, daily!!!

TTFN!!!

Good Morning Stephen,

That URL didn't come up. Can you try it again.
I would love to see it. Sad mom didn't finish it though. Thank God your daughter is alright.
That must have been so difficult for all of you.

I hope son will adjust better at school <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Childrens reactions tell you alot about how they feel inside. And it sounds like you are doing a great job Stephen.... considering all that has happened. I pray for healing to come to your family.

Ladysheep

Hello Ladysheep,
My little guy made an 180 turn around yesterday!!
I continued to reassure him, He actually got out of the van, walked in on his own,,, all with smiles!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I talked (praised him a lot!)to him about this when i picked him up.
I hear how this seperation thing is so norm, what saddens me so, is that its so unnecessary!!! Also the fact that I was feeling like i was putting this in him! Do you understand? Like intentionally handing him into the pain.

Sorry about the url not working. This site is my 14 year olds softball site.
http://www.afastpitchaffair.com

With my daughters condition, yes it was difficult. There are times when it still is, especially when its another MRI appointment.
There's still something in there, the size of a BB. In July, they said they think its maybe scar tissue,,, For the first, about 8 months, they told us there was nothing there, as if nothing had ever been wrong. On one of the MRI results appointments, both of our children were in there playing. The docplaced the film in the screen, said well we have something in there,,, i was SO scared, and nervous. I took one look at my little girl, who was playing with a ball, with her little brother, laughing,,, i was so nauseated(sp) i had to leave the room. Some of this resulted cuz i felt she didn't need to hear it. AS it turned out, there was something in there, ever since her surgery. Yet they informed us it was like a miracle,(which she is) there is no trace, no residual what so ever, as if nothing had ever been wrong. Now, i question their honesty?? All i can do is, one day at a time, and try to remember to pray daily.

Ladysheep, i'm sure trying,,,thank you.

This is a link for daughters on line photo album,
http://community.webshots.com/scripts/controlPanel.fcgi

<small>[ September 16, 2003, 03:44 AM: Message edited by: Stephan ]</small>

Hi Stephen,

For some reason I can't get into those links. It just shows the home pages.

I'm so glad your son is doing better. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

And Im believing your daughter is healed also.
I think they just wanted to put a little scare into you, which was unnecessary. She's fine!!
Thank God!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Ladysheep

Hey Stephen,

Thinking of you.

How are you? I only get on once in a while now.
I have to stay away from too much depressing stuff, but I come to talk to you, and some other
regulars. I'm trying to keep my mind on things that are of holy, pure, true, and of good report, it really boost my faith, and lifts me up. It took me sometime to figure that out. I would get on here and be here for hours, and wonder why I was becoming depressed. I guess I got carried away some. I can do that easily if I'm not careful. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

How are the children?

Ladysheep

Hi Ladysheep,,

I don't have much of a good report, if this would have been five days ago i would have??

i'm just ok,,actually too much down today!
Days ago i asked my W if we could get together and talk, and i wanted to make her an offer, her reply was ok. I was somewhat excited! We were talking about our times in the past again,, laughing and such.

Last night we got to talking,,(at the hospital) she informed me how she thought of me, that i'm a liar and that she does not like me.

I was infomred by my W that so and so said this and that,, she actually choose to believe them, her co-workers, and her so called friends!!!

My 5 year old, with the brain tumor,, all week-end has ran a temp. of 102 the first day, then it went to 105.9 We had her in the hospital last night, she has to go back today for more tests!!! There are a few concerns,,

I told my w last night that the best thing i could do was to hate her, like she so requests, and to get her the he!! out of my life!!!
The only thing is, thats still not what i want to do!! But right now, I HATE HER!!!

Yes, this place is, or can be depressing,,,

steve

Hi Ladysheep,,

I don't have much of a good report, if this would have been five days ago i would have??

i'm just ok,,actually too much down today!
Days ago i asked my W if we could get together and talk, and i wanted to make her an offer, her reply was ok. I was somewhat excited! We were talking about our times in the past again,, laughing and such.

Last night we got to talking,,(at the hospital) she informed me how she thought of me, that i'm a liar and that she does not like me.
She also informed me that her boss told her to put the PPO against me. This was a day when i needed her signature on the tax refund check. She informed me last night that i intentionally blocked her in, so she could not get away!!! The only thing is Ladysheep, all she had to do was drive in the forward motion,,,
She told me again how I didn't know her, this is about the 100th time of hearing this.
I was infomred by my W that so and so said this and that,, she actually choose to believe them, her co-workers, and her so called friends!!! They told my W that I called asking to talk to her boss,,, IT never happened!!! NEVER, to this day! anyhow,

My 5 year old, with the brain tumor,, all week-end has ran a temp. of 102 the first day, then it went to 105.9 We had her in the hospital last night, she has to go back today for more tests!!! There are a few concerns,,

I told my w last night that the best thing i could do was to hate her, like she so requests, and to get her the he!! out of my life!!!
The only thing is, thats still not what i want to do!! But right now, I HATE HER!!!

Yes, this place is, or can be depressing,,,

Have i ever mentioned about her accusing me of trying to poison her!!??
My counselor informed me that I've been knocked out of my square??

steve

Oh Gosh Stephan, that's terrible. And it sounds like your wife made things sound a lot worse than what they "really" were. Every time she was angry, she probably made a mountain out of a mole hill. Not to mention it may be just her way of trying to hide and justify the affair, to make it look like it was all your fault she left. Do you know what I mean. Bigtime manipulation!! Remember the venusian. You gave it your best Stephan. It's sad that she is causing so much pain to you and your family.

And now I pray for your daughter <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> . What is her name? What are the Dr's saying is the matter? You must be so worried about her. How is she doing today?

Stephan, you have been hit with a lot of stuff in a small period of time. Please try to "Take it easy". It's not your fault, your wife has made her choice, even though we know it's not a good choice. It will take her longer to understand that, maybe never, if she continues being stubborn. It sounds like she gave you one more hit in the heart last night. Try not to put yourself in the position that she can give you another one, keep your distance and guard your heart. She is not emotionally stable, so she isn't going to show you or others very much love. It's just that your wife doesn't sound like she has any love to give. God is love, and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.
He who does not love, does not know God, for God is love. All the surface stuff can be done in a marriage, all the nice deeds to each other to fulfull emotional needs, but if there is no love, and (God is love) in it, then what is it?
Just going through the motions?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Your wife is incapable of loving at this moment, to all of your detriment. All she will show you is anger, dislike, and false accusations. She sounds very agressive.

ASSERTIVENESS
The ability to recognize your strengths and express your feelings with confidence. Assertive individuals are able to express feelings like anger and tenderness directly and without apology. They have the confidence to tell others what they need and they feel in control of their own lives.

AGGRESSIVENESS

OOOPS, I pushed reply too soon.

AGGRESSIVENESS
Aggressiveness centers around hurting others either out of vindictiveness or defensiveness.
Though it may accomplish your needs temporarily, it leads to disrupted communication and counteraggression from others.

Your wife causes you to be counteraggressive, she wants to do that. She constantly gives you mixed signals, like one minute talking about all the great times laughing having a great time together, then o.k.'s your offer, then next thing she is calling you a liar and she doesn't like you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> She is not stable Stephan, so you can't expect her to be stable.

I pray God give you the strength to not worry about her right now, and just take care of yourself and the children. Don't count on her for anything, she will just hurt you right now.
And keep your head and heart spinning. Guard your heart. This was the choice she made, not you, let her have her way, she still be just as miserable, if not more. Her conscience will get her, without your having to say a word.

Sent with Love, Ladysheep

Hi, it's me again. I have some more thoughts...

Avoid your wife like the plague!! Don't give her anything. Don't talk to her except in a yes or no manner as far as the children go. If she asks you a question, say yes or no, and leave.
Never give her time to get into a conversation w/ you. Keep conversation w/ her very short and to the point and only to do w/ children!!!! If she starts talking about anything else, say "I gotta go" and do it quickly. Don't show her any emotions at all. Straight face at all times, no smile, no frown, no nothing. Show her that you don't really respect her enough to talk to her. DO THIS FOR 6 MONTHS and believe me she will be floored by your strength and avoidance. No matter how nice she tries to be, do the same thing, TREAT HER AS IF SHE IS NOT EVEN THERE WHEN SHE IS Treat her as if how she feels does not even matter to you, when she starts talking about herself, walk away like you don't even care. It will be difficult, but you have to be consistent, no giving into her "niceness" even after 2 months. And do not ever tell her about your problems anymore, NEVER. Do not talk to her about your feelings about anything anymore!!! Children and visitation talk and that is it, and keep that short also.

Sent with Love, Ladysheep

Lady sheep,,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And now I pray for your daughter . What is her name? What are the Dr's saying is the matter? You must be so worried about her. How is she doing today? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Her name is Veronica.
Last night after recieving the lab results, we were sent to her main hospital, more tests,, we were there all night this time!

They are not sure whats the matter at this point!? There has been several tests so far,, we have to have her back in on Friday. Next week Tuesday she will have to have a bone marrow test. Something to do with the virus being in her bone marrow??
I think basically from her past condition, the JPA tumor, they seem to be leaning more towards lukemia.

Today she started out as though she was all revved up and ready to go! Shortly after, she was back down. So she will be watching a lot of tv the next few days, ;-)

I'm not sure if any of those links ever worked, but try this one if you will??
http://community.webshots.com/user/stephan_caley Its Veronicas coming home, and some while she was hospitalized, in 2001.

Every time she was angry, she probably made a mountain out of a mole hill
Have you met my w, or been talking to her? lol
Often it appears as if there issues looked back on, and made into something they actually wasn't,, its at times confusing, as with frustrating. Yesterday we talked A LOT!!!
Sorry Ladysheep, i didn't read your post until after,, besides, knowing me, how many times have i really heed any actual advice?? You know!? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Yes i do remember that venusian. In fact i asked my counselor if she has ever heard of this kind of a person,, lol. But she has never heard of the word or term prior.

A few days ago i bought W a package of her favorite cookies,, she had brought them to the hospital with her, as she enjoyed them, i'm hoping that maybe they will help sweeten her up?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Early this morning when she dropped Veronica and myself off at home, she allowed me to give her a hug, as she leaned into my embrace, a tree branch had fallen,,, she said *get away from me your an omen!* i took it as a joke,,
i hope she was joking, anyhow i said it was a sign from God.

Yesterday while we were talking, at one point she made the comment for me to set up everything, regards to us going to a counselor,,,during this topic, and into the conversation.
Minutes later she commented that she only meant for me to set things up, for me to agree to joint custody,,,

I really need to get going, will get back with you.
Steven

<small>[ September 25, 2003, 07:45 PM: Message edited by: Stephan ]</small>