I've been on this site for quite some time now and curious as to what constitutes an "Emotional Affair"?

www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5024_qa.html

A strong emotional attachment (more than with the spouse) without sex.

<small>[ September 17, 2003, 01:25 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

Thanks Chris,

In reading the other boards lately it's like if a man "talks" to a woman it's a EA, or vice versa.

Granted I can see the dangerous side but can't men and women be friends. I really don't know where this is all coming from in my head today but I have several close female friends. Many from these boards, some married, & some divorced.

Also, if a woman is having her "communication" need met by her adult female babysitter (let's just say) is that an EA.

Bill, I think of an emotional affair as any relationship in which increasing emotional attachment creates a negative effect on one's emotional attachment with one's spouse. And yes, going by that definition, I think it is quite possible for a heterosexual to have an emotional affair with someone of the same sex. I think it is even possible to have an emotional affair with one's own child.

I think it is also quite possible to have a close relationship with someone of the opposite sex without it being an emotional affair.

If you only have 100% of your emotions to give ( or get) & you are giving/getting more of them (consistently) to/from someone other than your spouse, then you're in trouble.

In reading the other boards lately it's like if a man "talks" to a woman it's a EA, or vice versa.
Probably because it's fresh & easy to see it.Like when you get a new car, suddenly every other car is the same as yours.

Granted I can see the dangerous side but can't men and women be friends. I really don't know where this is all coming from in my head today but I have several close female friends.
Depends on what you mean by friends. If your wife asked you to not see one of them anymore and you cannot readily agree to it or make excuses as to why you don't need to, then it's a problem (at least one in the making).

Gnome & Chris, thank you for your reply’s. Just so it’s out in the open, I’m not writing this thread to go against any principles, only trying to establish what constitutes or where is the line to an “Affair”, especially since the majority of my friends are women.

Mr. Webster describes an affair as:

Main Entry: af·fair
Pronunciation: &-'fAr, -'fer
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English & Middle French; Middle English affaire, from Middle French, from a faire to do
Date: 14th century
1 a plural : commercial, professional, public, or personal business b : MATTER, CONCERN
2 : a procedure, action, or occasion only vaguely specified; also : an object or collection of objects only vaguely specified <their house was a 2-story affair>
3 also af·faire a : a romantic or passionate attachment typically of limited duration : LIAISON 2b b : a matter occasioning public anxiety, controversy, or scandal : CASE

Since I know that I will not be involved in the physical side, I do want to ensure that I don’t let any of these friendships cross the emotional bounds. Which leads me to another point, it is quite possible for lets say John, to be involved in an emotional affair with Mary, only John doesn’t know that he is because he doesn’t have the same thoughts or feelings.

“””I think it is quite possible for a heterosexual to have an emotional affair with someone of the same sex. I think it is even possible to have an emotional affair with one's own child.”””

I guess, this is where I get hung up on the word “affair”. I’m not a homosexual, yet I could be having an affair with Jim because I’m meeting his emotional needs? Granted, I understand the logic cause Jim and I might hang out (taking time away from his family) and have deep meaningful relationship talks and so on. Maybe we just need to come up with different wording.

”””I think it is also quite possible to have a close relationship with someone of the opposite sex without it being an emotional affair.”””

My first reaction to this statement was Gnome you’re a sick puppy. But then I remember this was Gnome we’re talking about and again problem with the word “affair”, as my Mom and Dad were on rocky roads my mother and I became really close. I became her rock of sanity in an insane situation. So I can see where the dependence can occur.

“””Probably because it's fresh & easy to see it. Like when you get a new car, suddenly every other car is the same as yours.”””

I assume you’re referring to the “well my wife/husband cheated and so is yours” theory. Which as much as I didn’t want to hear that when I first came to these boards, I did later find it to be true. But can’t that be a double-edged sword when we (I’m saying as a whole) condemn a person like that? And couldn’t classifying this as an “EA” and encouraging the member to have their spouse break all contact further drive a wedge in their relationship because the spouse will view it as a control issue?

”””Depends on what you mean by friends. If your wife asked you to not see one of them anymore and you cannot readily agree to it or make excuses as to why you don't need to, then it's a problem (at least one in the making).”””

I broke friendships with family and friends for my now x-wife and have spent 2 years repairing the damage that I did by doing so.

”””Depends on what you mean by friends. If your wife asked you to not see one of them anymore and you cannot readily agree to it or make excuses as to why you don't need to, then it's a problem (at least one in the making).”””

I broke friendships with family and friends for my now x-wife and have spent 2 years repairing the damage that I did by doing so.
You were close enough with friends and family that your wife thought it was a problem?
Was it a problem?
Or was your wife "controlling"?

Just because your spouse says you need to dump your friends is not a good reason. ANd MB doesn't promote it this way. If your spouse has a problem with friends/family, then it is to be discussed and find out what the problem is.

I think a big factor in determining whether a relationship is just a friendship or an EA is whether secrecy is involved. If one spouse does not tell the other about the relationship, what's discussed, or makes any effort to hide it, then it's definitely an EA.

My H refuses to acknowledge that EA's exist. It's only an affair if sex is involved is his definition. He has been in contact for over 1 1/2 years w/another woman. During this time he has hidden emails by changing his password, hidden his cell phone or erased the call log, lied to my face regarding contact of any type.

He even left me for over 4 months during which time he visited OW in another state and spent numerous days w/her. He's admitted to french-kissing her and sleeping in the same bed, but claims no sex <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> He argues that even if sex occurred, it was while we were separated (not legally) so its not a PA. And since EA's don't exist at all, he has never had an affair <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> He claims many others agree w/him (probably the Bill Clinton followers).

Even now, he is still in contact via cell w/OW, but its not an affair according to him. She's just a friend that he denies contacting and has a romantic interest in. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

To me an emotional affair is a close emotional bond with someone of the opposite sex (assuming you are heterosexual) that feels closer than the emotional bond you have with your spouse (or the person you are officially with). That being said I must confess that I probably did have and still do have an emotional affair that has lasted over 20 years. There was never anything physical with this person. For over 10 years we actually haven't even seen each other, just spoke on the phone but he has been the rock I could lean on anytime. He is happily married with 2 kids and his wife knows of me and that we still communicate. I never told my ex about him until we got divorced since I did not consider this to be any of his business. After all I spoke to this guy on the phone once every blue moon and we've been "best friends" since high school. We both dated other people and never dated each other. I've always felt closer to this guy than to any other man. This friendship (or emotional affair) is very important to me and I would not sacrifice it for anyone.
I don't think we have the right to expect our spouses to devote all of their time to us. I don't think we can meet 100% of our spouses' emotional and recreational needs either but in a marriage you vow to be physically faithful and a physical affair nowadays has more consequences than just breaking the marital bond. It can be a death sentence due to sexually transmitted diseases for crying out loud. Therefore I think emotional affairs are acceptable but physical ones are not. This is only my opinion though and if your spouse thinks emotional affairs are not acceptable you shouldn't do it since it will erode her trust in you and have far reaching consequences.

ruby1,

Your situation is a little different because your "friend's" wife knows of the relationship. IMO you were wrong for not telling your H about it. I can understand having a friend of the opposite sex especially if you knew them before you met your spouse. But the realtionship should not be secret.

I would not have had a problem w/my H being in contact once in awhile w/another woman if he'd been open and honest. We both had friends of the opposite sex when we met. The problem w/the current one is that 1) he never mentioned her to me in the 19 years we had been together, 2) he hid the contact from me, 3) the contact consisted of sexual innuendos, and 4) he progressed to a physical relationship but feels now I should be OK w/him being in contact over the phone. Huh?

This was not someone he had remained in contact w/over the years. Also, their young friendship was more of a flirtation where they always wanted to date, but the timing wasn't right.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by LostHusband:
<strong>GDP: "I think it is quite possible for a heterosexual to have an emotional affair with someone of the same sex."

I guess, this is where I get hung up on the word "affair". I'm not a homosexual, yet I could be having an affair with Jim because I'm meeting his emotional needs? Granted, I understand the logic cause Jim and I might hang out (taking time away from his family) and have deep meaningful relationship talks and so on. Maybe we just need to come up with different wording.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeah, I think that the word "affair" can really get in the way. Accusing someone of having an affair is a good way to get their defenses up so quickly that they never really have a chance to consider the nature of the problem.

I don't think the problem in an EA is that the two parties are meeting each other's emotional needs. In principle, I don't see anything wrong with that. I think the problem occurs when one turns first to the affair partner instead of the spouse when seeking to get emotional needs met. Or when one turns to the affair partner as a result of the spouse's failure to fulfill one's expectations of having those needs met.

Mr. Webster describes an affair as:
It's not up to Mr Webster to describe an affair. It's really up to the spouse.

And yes, secrecy is a big part of it.

Therefore I think emotional affairs are acceptable but physical ones are not.
Acceptable? It's acceptable to you if your spouse devotes more time & energy into someone else as long as it's not physical?

Ruby: Let's go skiing tomorrow husband for my birthday.
Rubys husband: No can do. I'm going over Jane's. We are repainting her living room and then we're going to dinner later.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Chris -CA123:
<strong>Mr. Webster describes an affair as:
It's not up to Mr Webster to describe an affair. It's really up to the spouse.

And yes, secrecy is a big part of it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'd agree that a "relationship" born of secrecy is in no way condusive to a good married life. But I disagree that it's up to the spouse to "define" the meaning of the an affair. In a healthy relationship, which most of us on these boards have never had, the lines of communication should be wide open and the cornerstone of the relationship should be trust.

BUT, when you through in HUMAN beings with all our baggage then the pot gets stirred. As I stated earlier, I lost many relationships/friends/family because of my wife. I WOULD OF DONE ANYTHING TO PLEASE HER. But not only was I unhealthy for being so dependent upon her, she was unhealthy with her requests.

But I disagree that it's up to the spouse to "define" the meaning of the an affair.
Read What is an Affair?

In a healthy relationship, which most of us on these boards have never had,
??? Just because we are here, does not mean we never had a healthy relationship. Or that the relationship we are dealing with now (reason for coming here) is unhealthy. Or even that the relationship we are now in was never healthy.

BUT, when you through in HUMAN beings with all our baggage then the pot gets stirred. As I stated earlier, I lost many relationships/friends/family because of my wife.
You chose to give up these relationships (for whatever reason).

I WOULD OF DONE ANYTHING TO PLEASE HER. But not only was I unhealthy for being so dependent upon her, she was unhealthy with her requests.
It is a 2 way street. Just because she requested you end these relationships does not mean it was her fault. You chose to do it. What was her reasoning for you to end the relationships? Did she have "valid" reasons (even from her pov, which may not be the same as yours)?

<small>[ September 18, 2003, 03:24 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

LH,

Check out this link:

http://www.relationship-institute.com/freearticles_detail.cfm?article_ID=156

This is as good a definition as I've seen. This is what happened with my STBXW. The EA is long since over, but the damage was done.

sad dad

<small>[ September 19, 2003, 04:20 PM: Message edited by: sad dad ]</small>

Sad Dad - That was a very good link!

One of the things that hasn’t been addressed (unless I missed it which is certainly possible) in these posts has been the fact that an emotional affair usually is stronger than a PA. (Steve Harley told me this and it certainly proved true in the case of my marriage.) Also, because an EA hasn’t really had a “culmination” of sorts, in some ways it can be more damaging than a PA because of the fantasies, “what ifs”, and unrealistic speculations/dreams that actually feed the emotional affair, and which can be perpetuated over a long period of time.

Lots of interesting posts on this subject <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Another reason an EA can be more damaging is because of the lack of guilt. With a PA, the betrayal is undeniable and the guilt is there (although usually buried many layers deep). With an EA it is easy for the WS to justify it as a "friendship" to friends, family and even the BS. There is always an air of uncertainty without the "smoking gun" of a PA.

In my case my W denied they were more than friends even in the face of me hearing her tell him she was in love with him, having 100's of pages of phone records revealing 1000+ calls, secret meetings that I found out about. To this day I don't know if it was a PA, but it doesn't really matter. The damage done by her EA was enough. It cost us our marriage.

sad dad

<small>[ September 19, 2003, 09:11 PM: Message edited by: sad dad ]</small>

My definition would be that the desire to show care for the person exceeds the desire to show care for the spouse. Harley says that it is definitely an EA when there is a proposition made.

sad dad and avondale,

I agree that an EA can be more damaging than a PA, and definitely more enduring.

My H who still denies an EA had a chance to make it a PA, although he qualifies that as not really a PA since we were separated at the time. Anyway, OW was willing to go all the way, but supposedly H said no and they only kissed and slept in same bed. I know it sounds ridiculous.

What I'm getting at is either the physical part wasn't important or he quickly had it out of his system, yet he has not been able to end contact w/OW. On the other hand, maybe because he didn't get enough of the SF, there is still that fantasy-thing going on which keeps the EA alive. Who know?

All I do know is he has become a person I no longer trust in any shape or form. He denies (lies about) everything. The EA is like a cancer that is slowly eating away at our marriage. The longer it goes on, the stronger it gets, and the weaker the marriage gets.