Not to start a fire, but I am on the verge of telling my WW that I want a D. Although my DDay wasn't that long ago (7/5/03) things were of course going down hill before that. My WW isn't saved which gives me no Biblical obligation to remain married so I feel it would be pointless to reconcile. She has no reason to stay married other then doing it for herself or thinking it's right. And she would have no obligation of upholding the recovery/M.

I've been finding a lot of biblical reasons to divorce for my situation. She of course had an A which is the only grounds for D according to the Bible and she has left me which it says to let the unbelieving W go.

I don't want to take away anyone's hope by this by any means because I myself have wanted reconciliation throughout.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

This is in reference to Wisdom
Proverbs 2
16 It will save you also from the adulteress, from the wayward wife with her seductive words, 17 who has left the partner of her youth and ignored the covenant she made before God. 18 For her house leads down to death and her paths to the spirits of the dead. 19 None who go to her return or attain the paths of life.

I Corinthians 7
10To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. 11But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife. 12To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. 14For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy. 15But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. 16How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?

Matthew 5
31"It has been said, 'Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.' 32But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

I took the Corinthians verse to mean that I was bound unless my ex husband (the unbeliever) left. Even though he had the affair(s) I didn't believe I was biblically free unless he was the one that that said "I'm leaving the marriage." I felt biblically convicted to not be the one to leave, although I felt extremely justified in doing so if I wasn't convicted not to, if that makes any sense. I spoke to two priests throughout the ordeal who basically said they thought I was free to leave, and I wanted to very badly, but I didn't feel right about it. My ex H chose to divorce and I don't regret following my convictions to the end. I don't pretend to know what is best for anyone else, but I do know that for me, following my convictions was the right thing to do.

I agree with WhoamInow,

I also realized that while I 'could' leave, I am not a person to live my life according to what is 'allowed'. I make no determination whether it is right or wrong. I chose as she did, to allow my ex to leave. She left and never looked back. For me, that was just what I needed. She did everything for the divorce to proceed, however I did not fight anything other than custody. When finally received the 'declaration of dissolution', lovely term is it not, I knew that there was NONE of me in it. This was purely her choice in every aspect. It helped me immensely.

I understand where you are however. Being left and after/during an affair, but still living in limbo must really be hard. I believe that you have the 'biblical' right. It is simply your choice whether you choose to do it or not. I forgave 4 affairs, the woman I am seeing couldn't get over the first 2 her ex had, although several subsequent affairs only solidified her choice. She filed and left, and I don't believe she was wrong in doing so, even though it was completely opposite of what I chose to do.

It is up to you... my pastor said to me 'I don't see what the problem is?' kind of critically stated to me. Kind of like 'Get a clue FC, you have done everything and I don't think that you should have to go through this any longer.' It didn't have a bearing on what I chose to do. However, I do know that I was given the 'green light' as far as my pastor was concerned. He is 'learned' however, it still is my responsibility to make my choice. The choice that worked for me. That choice might not be the same choice that works for you however.

I still ponder these verses regularly and am not sure fully what they are saying to me. I know for sure that separating with WS was a biblical thing to do. He is an unbeliever and he broke our marriage vows which to me was a sure sign that he cast our M to the wind. I do not believe that God wanted me to "sit " and watch my H's infidelity. It was far beyond painful---it was unbearable.

It will be a year in Nov since I left but was 2 years this month that we separated for the first time. I am thinking more clearly now and the pain is decreased temendously so I am confident that as I seek God, He will show me specifically what is right.

I suggest you spend time communicating patiently with God cause He needs to show you what is right. It is never good to follow what another has chosen to do. All the scriptures are different about marriage, divorce, separation and staying with unbelievers which means to me that God works with us specifically and individually. God is very capable of leading us in the right direction but be sure of what He is showing you. I do believe haste make waste. I have seen this played out in life more times than I wanted to.

TW

I still ponder these verses regularly and am not sure fully what they are saying to me. I know for sure that separating with WS was a biblical thing to do. He is an unbeliever and he broke our marriage vows which to me was a sure sign that he cast our M to the wind. I do not believe that God wanted me to "sit " and watch my H's infidelity. It was far beyond painful---it was unbearable.

Tossedwave, Wow thank you for sharing. I am sooo feeling every word you have written here. It was so good to hear I'm not the only one that has felt this way. It has been 8 days since I've kicked my H out for his infidelities dating back to day 1 of our M of 6 years (and 7 together). He was also an unbeliever and due to his mental and emotional problems stemming from childhood neglect and abuse, he was never a great H. I'm slowly day by day learning new ways of letting it all go. I'm trying to put the lord #1 in my life and be the best mom I can to my 4 and 2 year old daughters.
It's hard of course but I'm sure the lord will see us through.

Eduard,

Thank you for taking the time to share these verses, you have me thinking today. I'm wondering, can you divorce your H or W in your heart and have it be acknowledged by god? I don't understand?

'Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.

What does this mean? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Thanks for the insight it is greatly appreciated! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

what happens if both are unbelievers? is it even possible for divorce to happen?

what happens if both are unbelievers?
Then they are not concerned with what the bible says.

is it even possible for divorce to happen?
Why not? They are not concerned with biblical "rules".

sorry, I meant what if both are believers? If one falls away from God which would that mean the fallen one would be separated from God?

As stated in Corinthians above. A believer shall not depart from the non-believer because the non-believer is sanctified through the believer. BUT if the non-believer departs then let them go because we are called to live in peace.

Is it possible to still be a Christian and yet file for a divorce from a partner who is also Christian but has been unfaithful? I'm struggling with that right now although we have been going for counselling.

Is it possible to still be a Christian and yet file for a divorce from a partner who is also Christian but has been unfaithful?
Biblically, yes.
Also, even as Christians, we are not perfect (nor expected to be).

thank you for your replies!

thank you Chris for enlightening me! my partner has used this in conversation...would this be considered as an excuse to get what they want, which is a divorce?

Just because you CAN divorce biblically doesn't mean you HAVE to do it.

ALso, if they are doing it because they want a divorce and aren't gonna do it themselves (file), then you should be looking at your contributions as to why she would want a divorce.

would this be considered as an excuse to get what they want, which is a divorce?
Sure, it could be. But you screw them over and DON'T give them a divorce! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is it possible to still be a Christian and yet file for a divorce from a partner who is also Christian but has been unfaithful? I'm struggling with that right now although we have been going for counselling. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The 1 Cor. verse says "IF the UNBELIEVING one WANTS to leave... let him go." The Believer is not the one seeking to leave; the unbeliever is and if you read the whole passage, the reason the unbeliever wants to leave is because of the Believer's faith. The unBeliever wants nothing to do with that person's God and faith! It is basically saying that as a Believer, it is better to let that person peacefully go than to beg and plead and possibly embitter the unBeliever and turn them off away from Christ even more.

As for unfaithfulness, the other verses that say a person is not "bound" is due to sexual immorality (the Greek word used is "porneia") which could be adultery, homosexuality, incest, etc.

But like Chris and I think others said, nowhere does it say you "have" to divorce. In fact, the Pharisess said to Jesus in Matthew, "Why did Moses say a man MUST divorce..." and Jesus answered, "Moses PERMITTED it..." He made it clear that it is only "permitted" but never demanded. Divorce should always be a "last" option as the whole reason for divorce is that someone's heart is "hardened" (either one spouse or both). The best thing would be for the hardened heart(s) to turn to God, repent, and be softened and then save the marriage if possible.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">'Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This was given by Moses back in the Old Testament days when men first started divorcing wives. Back then, they were divorcing them for any reason (they burnt the toast!) but what was mostly happening, is that they were divorcing in order to marry other women. But the man could just throw the woman out and she was basically helpless. Also, if he divorced her, it was assumed she committed adultery. Well, back then, adulterers were stoned to death.

So, when Moses gave this command re: divorce certificate, it was for the protection of the spouse being "thrown out" of the marriage. It gave that spouse legal rights and the "right" to remarry since he/she was divorced. But it also was to give a message to the men to not take this lightly. That this was very serious... you don't just throw your wife out to go after another woman or because she has let you down in whatever way.

God has always been very concerned about the welfare of women and children... men too, but women and children have always been much more vulnerable to mistreatment than men.

Back then, women weren't allowed to divorce husbands period!

BUT, Moses made it very, very clear that this permission of the divorce cert. was only because their hearts were "hard." He said, "It was not this way in the beginning," meaning that this was not what God created. He didn't create divorce. He created marriage, but men's hearts became sinful and they did sinful, hardened things... thus, divorce was/is merely a provision to protect people from the devastations of sin (adultery, abuse, et). It is never something that we should look at as a way out of a difficult marriage or a marriage that we think was a "mistake." That is pretty much how our society as a whole treats it today.

Thanks for the replies all. It's good to hear other people thinking of the same things I am. I am torn and trying to figure out what God's will really is and not mine. I feel staying with an unbeliever may just cause more problems being unequally yoked. I tried it once my way so I hate to go down that beaten path again.

The other thing besides her leaving me is I found out is she's moving back home in under 3 weeks which is 2000 miles away.

This is another verse that makes me think-
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Malachi 2:16
"I hate divorce," says the LORD God of Israel, "and I hate a man's covering himself [ 2:16 Or [ his wife ] ] with violence as well as with his garment," says the LORD Almighty. So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WhoamInow - It is good to hear that you made the right decision. I pray that when I look back I will feel the same.

FC - Yes, all the signs point to go it's just a matter of pushing that RED button. LoL yeah I feel the same way about the "duh, what's the problem here?" I must be a glutton for punishment. I am at that point where I can say "I did what I could and I have no regrets", I wonder how the WS feels when they look back.

Tossedwave - That is my biggest concern, that I follow his will and not mine. I feel he has shown me some things and recent events such as her moving are confirmation. I'm just being patient in making a final decision and trying not to let anything make me waiver.

Finding Clarity - Not sure if you can divorce someone in your heart. Marriage is taken with vows and the paper is only a physical acknowledgement of it in my opinion. I know I told God to take my heart, lock it up and release it when he saw fit to whomever he chooses.

VanDan - Yes, adultery is the only grounds for divorce outside of death. Matthew 5:32 says the part about unfaithfulness.

Chris - Thanks for postin, you're always good.

VanDan- You should read some of Chris' other posts, he's on top of the game.

It's definitely one of those things that just because you can, doesn't always mean you should. I have waited to think things out and get a better footing on WHY else I would go through with it. I could not live with myself if I just jumped onboard the D boat and didn't at least try to save my sinking ship. Captain's gotta go down with the ship, but not all the way down to the bottom!

LovemyEx - That's great insight and detail.

Here is a good site for looking up verses online or keywords. I've done a few searches for "divorce" "separate" "adultery" etc.

Bible Online

I am going through that dilemna myself right now. I am the WS and Catholic; my W is not religious and has filed. I refuse to sign it. I don't want a D and from MY reading of the scriptures, I am not allowed to D. She can but because I broke the vows, I can't remarry.
However, I am investigating this further with my mentor, my deacon and a website, http://www.gospelcom.net/rbc/. This site has many, many very good pamphlets on a variety of spritual topics. I just started reading this site this week. (They also make a pamphlet called, "Our Daily Bread".

God Bless all of us and our Marriages.
TTSMM

Wow Trying, that is quite the dilemna. I am glad to at least hear you have tried to work it out and don't want the D.

I pray things work out the best for your particular situation.

It is your wife option if she wants to stay married since she is a non believer and you are. You cannot divorce your wife because you have a higher standard to live by. Your life has to be a witness.

If both spouses are believers, commiting A still does not warrent a divorce. The only time a divorce can occur is if the WS is committing A and the WS wants a divorce because the are not willing to give the OP up and wants the divorce to remarry the OP.