Have not posted in a while.....Been trying to make sense of a senseless situation. Went to mediation on Sept. 5th...needless to say, never saw the train coming but definitly got hit....Here is the synopsis..WW got new truck, 20K in alamony, must sell both houses, I pay her 5K legal fees plus anything going forward, 1/2 of 401K, 1/2 of house sale proceeds. We have shared custody and I get the privelege of paying for 9 days visitation each month with my 3 children...actually 1 child, my oldest 17 has elected to live with me and my WW still wants full payment. Here is my question???? after a year of hell, hospital visits, anti-depresent meds, loss of weight, the loss list goes on...She filed for the D, after my 4 attempts and false recoveries, her arrest and numerous legal battles as a result of her calling the police and her continued poor behavior. Well imagine.....Now she wants to reconcile....I have moved on in the past 5 weeks...I am playing volleyball and seeing someone.....I am not looking to marry or be a live in or anything, just laughing and enjoying life for a change....I do not ever want to go back to the stress and anxiety I went through for a year. Suddenly reality ahs hit my WW....now she misses me and our family and all that we had....I am saddened and hurt, but after 4 false recoveries, and all the betrayal. I went to and still am attending counseling. I attended Divorce Care, read all the books you can imagine and implemented Tough LOve, Plan A and B...WW refused to participate in any reading, counseling etc....I eliminated all LB....After all the loving actions and tolerating her nasty behavior, I have depleted my love bank to zero....I told her I have no love for her left but more importantly, no respect...It is difficult to not feel guilty and second guess my self....Why..??? I am to meet with her tomorrow evening, but can not give her the answer she wants....My two older children, 13 and 17 do not want me to reconcile....Where was she 8-10 months ago??????I was so willing to accept and reconcile our marriage and family....now, my bank is depleted and I am tired, I just want some time to re-build my self...Any insight will be appreciated.....

Hi ag, I've been wondering about you.

Well, this is one of those scripts you read about here from time 2 time. I hope that TMCM will see this thread and tell you some of his own experiences.

In the final analysis, though, what's important is what you want 2 do with your life. Do you want your W back? If so, considering her recent behavior, you should probably think about compiling a list of things that you'd like 2 see her do BEFORE you even think about reconciling. Let her have time, with a clear head, 2 figure out what SHE really wants. Definitely don't just take her back now because she's scared and lost and misses you. Make sure she's sincere about rebuilding.

Your W sounds a lot like TMCM's exW. I hope I'm wrong, though.

All my best,
-kid 2long

AG~
Every situation is different. With that said, your stbx sounds a bit like my DH's x. Every time he started to enjoy life without her, she came running back to him, promising him the world. She interfered in a number of "promising" relationships by playing the "but what about the children?" card. He married her twice. They were living together and discussing a third marriage, when she cheated on him again. Finally, he walked away.

I'd say, if you're happy with the way your life is going (even if it's only because you've eliminated a lot of the fear and anxiety of being married to someone who has been repeatedly dishonest with you), why would you want to go back?

-BTM

With 4 false recoveries and her filing for divorce I would caution you against getting your hopes up that the 5th one is going to be the charm. While your decision to reconcile or not, should not be based solely on your 13 and 17 year olds opinion, you should pay attention that they also do not want to go through another year of hell.

Until your ex-W resolves her personal issues, she is in no condition to have a relationship with you or any other man.

WOW.....Thanks for the replies and insight.....like so many times before, I feel guilty for some reason...yet, I have sat awake the past two nights reliving the hell I have been through..I am not ready to return to that....I am finally at a point that I am beginning to like myself and accept the circumstances as they are....Mainly the result of her decisions..I also know I gave 110% and tolerated horrible conditions to try to save my marriage and family....Non-the less, I want to seek wise counsel from many sources...That is why I am here...Thanks for the replies...any others welcome..

If I can share my opinion,,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I want to seek wise counsel from ,amy sources</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">God tells us He is our Wonderful Mighty Counselor,,,
What God has joined together let no man seperate,,,
It is the desire of Gods heart to reconcile all marriages, *that none shall parish.*

"I hate divorce." says God of Israel, so take heed to your spirit,,, Mal. 2:16

Amazinzgrace, all i'm doing is sharing my opinion,, if there is even the slightest chance, that you *could* think about reconciliation, than maybe with just a little more encouragement,, then I'm sending it.

I don't think your decsion should be based on your *childrens* thoughts,,,I think thats too much burden on them. They love their mother.
Regards to your children,, the message you should be telling them, this is your sole decision, based on the fact you are the mature responsible adult here.

When you gave your vows, you made and gave promises and a commitment.Thru better for worse, thru sickness and in health,, til death do us part.

Your marriage can still be saved!

What message are you currently sending to your children? That moms not worthy? So years to come, because dad decided to divorce mom, find a new GF, well in the future we can almost positively look forward for another divorce in the family. Who actually is wanting to do the right thing here? You, or your W? At the same time, what is the right thing to do? when is divorce ever right? or ever wrong? I'm not sure now, but either 90, or 98% of marriages that end in divorce, was unecassary!

Lets go with the possibility that you decided to do the reconciliation,, what messages would you now be sending your children,,
To do whats right!?

All we have to go by is ones past, or our past,, but where does it get us looking back? What are the accomplishments? Whats the payoff?

We need to learn to keep our chins up, stiving forward, seeking new adventures,,, even to be included with our current spouse, rather we are an BS, or WS,,,
Hopefully you can find an *open mind* and no longer allow yourself to focus on the water thats gone over,,, divorce your current relationship,, but start over with your current spouse.
Leran each other, totally, just because its broken, it can be mended ever stronger!!
You were attracted to her once for a reason,,
Once its gone, it does not mean that its gone forever,,
*Its never too late*

I share my opinion, with all due respect to all others,,
I'AM A STANDER
http://www.rejoiceministries.org

<small>[ September 30, 2003, 07:15 PM: Message edited by: Stephan ]</small>

Stephan, you are most correct, I am quite confused and wounded..it took courage for my WW to come forth and say "I was right all along" what she saw as controlling, she now sees as protection..she wants that protection back..sadly, she says she is willing to do anything..I am scared, I have heard this before...It was an emotional meeting tonight....we cried, we hugged, we even kissed...it felt so good yet I am still scared and not certain I can do it....In fact, I do not know where to begin....nor does she..I am afraid it is reality setting in versus what she wants through a clear mind and heart...She is still hesitant with counseling..A s Dr. Dobson says, if there is a hint of waver, let them stew and think some more..I did speak with my counselor...she indicated that perhaps we could start slowly based on WW providing some specific actions to indicate commitment....I tried so hard for over a year and am now ready to move on..It felt good to hold her yet I maintained my emotional distance...I was played so many times that I am hyper-vigilent...Only time and actions will tell, I am not able to make the decision and commitment she wants now...I am seeking wise counsel because although you ar correct in reconciliation, we still need to reconcile in or out of our marriage....I know the magnitude of marriage commitment and this is why I subjected myself to hell for over a year...I tried so hard and she admitted it tonight...sadly, I have turned a corner and am beginning to like myself again....and WW is not included now...

Amazing Grace,

Just a quick thought re: "sadly, I have turned a corner and am beginning to like myself again....and WW is not included now."

Is your liking of yourself dependent upon your wife, or for that matter, any other person? You sound, from your last post to Stephan, like you know the Lord so I will encourage you as a Christian sister. I encourage you to seek your worth and your life in HIM and not any other person, including your wife. You will find a strength, peace, and joy in walking with the Lord that you cannot find in any person.

When our worth and "self-esteem" is contingent upon another person, we will always struggle. We will see the long lists of wrongs and sins of the other person and we will attribute our mental state to the other person's treatment of us. Yet, throughout the Bible there are men and women who were severely abused, mistreated, wronged, etc. yet who did not need to "re-find" themselves nor did they ever "lose" their worth. They held fast to God and dealt with the heartache/fear/etc. through prayer and faith.

We may do as you mention and "turn a corner" and "like" yourself "again" but for how long? We will forever be wronged in this life, either by spouses, children, parents, friends, church members, co-workers, even strangers. There is NO way to get through life without being wronged, and I'd add "abused" by other people. We are all sinners sharing this earth together and since it is as such, we are going to hurt each other... some hurts far greater than others (including violent crimes and injustices).

Jesus' message was that we will find our life when we lose it...

When we try to "find ourselves" and our "worth," we will not. It can only be truly found in knowing who we are in Christ Jesus... both the good (our salvation) and the bad (our sinfulness).

Do not let your children or anyone else dictate what you do concerning your marriage. Let the Word of God alone dictate what you do. If you do not seek Him first, you will ALWAYS be searching but never finding that peace that you are looking for. He will give you wisdom and insight into what to do in your situation.

Said in love from a Christian sister. God bless!

<small>[ October 01, 2003, 02:56 AM: Message edited by: LoveMyEx ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"She is still hesitant with
counseling.."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WARNING: HUGE RED FLAG.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"A s Dr. Dobson says, if there is a hint of waver, let them stew and think some more.." </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I beleive that you should heed the good doctor's advice.

Even if the divorce becomes finalized that doesn't rule out the possibility that if she does everything in her power to change and becomes a woman worthy of being married, you two could remarry at a later date. My point is that she has to suffer the consequences of 4 false recoveries to realize that she can't play this game forever with you.

Well, thanks to all for the advice and insight....It has been a wrenching week.....I am bound to speak with my WW tonight and let her know.....that reconciliation at this point is not in my heart..I gave all I had over the past year...I know in my heart I gave my all..I am not happy nor did I want this....however, I have come to accept what has been given to me at this time.... my heart is not in it....after 4 false recoveries...i have no more to give....I want to focus on me and get mentally healthy for myself and my children....This is all the result of a poor decision that has hurt us all....Well, going to go for now....all comments welcome....

AG I agree with your assesment that you need to become healthy for yourself and your children. Sadly you can't achieve that with a person like your stbxww who is sicker than you.

Good luck and God bless.

Today is WW B'day...I have longing feelings for her and yet I have bad feelings..You see, she was out w/ OM last year and my children for a huge B'day dinner...I never so much as got a B'day card....Also, this is the week my WW became pregnant by OM...I know I sound silly, but I am honest about my feelings..more...While I feel the loss, it is not enough to go back and accept what she has done to me and us...Over the past four false recoveries, I felt it in my heart to take her back...today, I would have to talk myself into it...Yet I do miss her for some strange reason...I am so confused again like many months ago.....I thought I was doing so well..yet, this is my fault for letting my guard down and short stopping my desire to move on....any comment from you vets...

Me 42
WW 42 today
M 21 yrs
3 children, 10, 13, 17
WW, A w/ BF of 20 yrs
Pregnancy, abortion 11/02
4 false recoveries
WW arrested 7/03, domestic abuse, She called police
WW filed D on 7 24/03
Mediation 9/03, WW rewarded for poor behavior
10/03, WW wants to reconcile, I tell her not in my heart, suddenly she see's light w/ some hesitation, messed me up bad for a few days...

<small>[ October 12, 2003, 09:26 PM: Message edited by: amazinggrace ]</small>

Don't beat yourself up for what you did because it is very hard to remove 21 years of married history overnight, just don't let your emotions rule the wise choices you make.

Amazinggrace,

I still believe that you really need to stop, actually *refuse* to allow yourself to focus on what was.(life in hell) Focusing only on the negative!! Yes it is easier said than done,, but it still is a *choice* made. That same energy is used to make the *choice* to not allow the thoughts!!

Amazinggrace, I will say it again,, *its never too late!* All thats required is an *open mind* You prove that your mind is capable of being open, because you open it to focus on the negative,,

I do strongly agree with TMCM, that you do need to be strong, and healthy!! For yourself!! Nothing can or will be accomplished, until after this is accomplished. Including any new relationship,,,

Also, what is the pay off for now beating yourself up for a decision made?? What is your pay off? Obviously you wanted too see her,, give yourself the credit deserved, for being honest to and with yourself. But don't second guess yourself!? What have you accomplished?? Frustration, confusion,, more *fog.*
What rules are being broken by hugging, kissing,,, ?? Did it feel good? Or was the pain so unbearable, that you couldn't withstand??
I'm sure it felt good, at the time,,
so now you want to change that and,,

Its past, it is water over the bridge. It does nobody any good, more so yourself! Accept what was done, and move forward. Yes, in my opinion, forward to and with your wife!! You listened to your heart last night,, now today your listening to your mind. What do you accomplish?? I do understand the confusion, I have been there! And at times I'm still there!!
But i still am a STANDER!!
I do STAND for the healing of my marriage, remembering that God says let no man seperate what he has joined together. He also tells us He *hates divorce!* He created marriage, and marriage is good, divorce is cursed, and is selfish!

I'd like to ask this,, have the both of you pursued any avenues in regards to counseling, or coaching?? I know rercently W refused to be involved with this idea,,?? *If* there are stones left unturned, then you are not, and will not be ready for divorce. If and when you can look each other in the eyes, and are comfortable with saying such, than you are and will be ready to move on,, w/o your wife.
Again, i only express my opinions, I'm in no way telling you what you should do.
Only you can decide for youreself.

"Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we
will reap a harvest if we do not give up" Galatians 6:9

"With man this is impossible, but with God all things are
possible." Matthew 19:26

Stephan

I agree that reconciling is the most important goal in any marriage in trouble!!!!! I agree that you have to keep an open mind but there also has to be evidence of reconiliation. I also agree that every step has to be prayed about and seeking God through every feeling, decision, and action is paramount to know what is best for ALL involved.

My WS wanted to reconcile every 3 weeks for many months. It is hard to tear away from many years of M in spite of the OW/OM in their lives. My pastor and others finally advised me to expect real proof of change before believing his attempts. There was none. Another point made was that WS, if wanting to work on M, needed to have someone to be accountable to. Destructive behavior is very hard to change alone.

Well, I left because he finally admitted an unwillingness to work on us. No change was possible for him. Now that we are "torn asunder", he never calls or even acts like he would ever want to live with me again. So his need for me was not what I expected. The soul-damage is very evident in his life and I think he has become more disconnected emotionally than he was before.

I say all this cause if you read about true recoveries on these boards, you will see that BOTH spouses were working hard on the M....that is what is necessary.

Pray, think through things, learn to take care of yourself, and know that God has plans for you...not to harm you but to give you a future and a hope.

TW

I beleive all that you say....I tried so hard, all the plans, all the letters, read all the books....eventually, my love bank is at zero....a point I never in my wildest dreams imagined....yet after following the plan, it happened...I lost love and more importantly, respect for her...yes I miss her, yes ...I too was a Stander and tolerated all the past to save what I know God created....I know I have made a choice, just like I chose to stay w/ her and go through the hell and hospital visits and tests and humiliation, etc...even when the average person would have left and never looked back...I did pray, attend and still attend counseling....My kids and family as it once stood is a mess...I am still healing myself.....It just is not in my heart any longer....I would be cheating myself and my kids, I would bring a depressed and emotional father to the table with little to no feelings for the mother of my children...and the first time we disagree or she is late or even hints of deception, it would start all over....yes it is past and yet my future is impacted not only with her, but all future relationships...I do beleive in miracles, but cannot overcome the emotional scars at this point....yes I am confused as TMCM indicated, one cannot erase 21 years of married life overnight..Biblically, I have given and followed what is right...even Dr. Dobson indicates...not all marriages will be saved....the more dynamics in an affair, the more difficult to heal...short of a STD situation, I have experienced all of the dynamics and still realling from them....Both of us (WS was not willing) were never on the same page, she refused to read, to counsel, to follow a plan, to attend MB seminars....even when asked to do as a gift to our M, not for me...Nothing....Now, she see's the light and sadly I have moved to a new level....not completely a choice, but because she through her actions helped move me there....One can not jump in the pool without getting wet....The law of the farm applies as well, one reaps what is sown, even the bible addresses this....Even christians are not to be doormats....and that is how I came to feel until I stood for my own self respect and that of my children..What message am I sending?...I have sent the message that under horrible conditions, one can muster the strength to love again...I did this 4 times....I am also showing that ones decisions affect othrs even when the others are unaware....now I am showing strength to move on after having tried and tried very hard....it is no less easy to move, but one must more or be paralyzed by self doubt and little to no self respect....I did not want any of this, but find it difficult to interfere with the natual consequences of multiple poor decisions and behavior that was selfish and inconsiderate of consequences....in the face of a loving and informed and willing husband....I told her I would either be a loving husband for her or a wonderful person to someone else....which includes me....not a threat, but a reality of my deciding to learn rahter than leave for many months....I know this is long and perhaps with angry overtones, But true to my heart and mind....