Hi All:

It`s been a while due some travel and flu, but I have been monitoring.

Not long ago, my ex-wife and I spoke briefly about the lessons our divorce will teach to our two children. As I continue to stand for our marriage, I was of the opinion that the best lesson of all would come through our reconciliation; through forgiving one another, through admitting our respective roles in the crisis and through re-building our family life once again.

My ex-wife, however, is of the opinion that her filing for divorce, starting a new relationship, and moving out will teach our children (and I quote) "that the women of today, unlike the "church-going women" at the turn of the last century, have a choice. Women of today don`t need to be submissive under their men just because the bible says so. If their husband betrays them through infidelity, the women of today have the right to leave. And it is "this" which will teach our children to stand up for their rights in their future relationships."

Any comments from anyone?

Standing in Finland

<small>[ October 01, 2003, 05:10 AM: Message edited by: StandingInFinland ]</small>

(((((SIF)))))

I’m addressing this matter in only what I believe to be the Biblical sense. You see I have a friend whose X-husband “totally” believed that “Women of today do need to be submissive under their men” and as a man of the Lord I have a problem with that. To me that is pretty much discounting any and all writings of the new testament where we learn about things such as “acceptance” and “forgiveness”. I also believe that the Lord made woman from man’s rib bone to walk side by side with man, not the foot bone so that man could be on top of woman.

Again, please don’t misinterpret what I’m saying here, I truly know nothing of your story, but I can relate the biblical portion to a story that I’ve watched unfold before my eyes.

As for lessons for the children from an affair, why would they even know of it? I see no benefit to them by knowing such things and biblically speaking “adultery” is one sin that man is called not to judge for only the Lord shall judge adulterers, to me in itself is a pretty scary proposition.

Hello Lost Husband:

Perhaps some misunderstanding here. I share your understanding of the New Testament that man and woman are to walk side by side. I do not believe that the Bible requires a woman to be submissive, but an equal partner in good times and bad. My ex-wife though considers biblical attitudes about marriage to be repressive to a woman. She feels that anyone who professes religious values is condemning her decision to walk out of our marriage and refusal to work on our reconciliation.

As regards the children, she and I just differ in how we view the lesson of divorce. I believe that divorce basically teaches it is best to run away from problems. She believes though that divorce is a woman`s right and a good instructive remedy for exercising one`s individual liberty.

Standing in Finland

SIF Maybe I can lend a little insight as to your wife's thinking, as a bs and a Christian woman myself. I hear the pain in your wife's defense of her divorce. From my understanding of scripture, I do not believe in divorce, except in extreme cases such as unrepentent infidelity. BUT having said that, now that I have felt the incredible pain of infidelity, my own words sometimes ring with a feminist zeal that I felt before accepting the teachings of Jesus. I feel it stems from feeling betrayed and let down by the man in my life. Not good or right necessarily, but there it is.
Since the Bible does give the right to divorce in cases of infidelity, she is excercising that right, and is making her case to do so. Understandable--probably not best for her or the children or you. If you are truly repentant, one would hope for Godly reconciliation, a victory by the overcoming power of the Holy Spirit. But it is her technical right, nonetheless to divorce. I just want you to see that it may be her lingering pain over the betrayal by her man that causes her to be so adamant in her choice to divorce and in her defense thereof. Best to you.

<small>[ October 01, 2003, 08:53 AM: Message edited by: want2shine ]</small>

I sent this article (from this site) to my X very early on in the separation. Not that it made much difference to him, but it made me feel better, knowing that I had given him some info.

It is about infidelity, but you can apply it to divorce too, I believe.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8112_lesson.html

Love and light,

Jacky

I think both of you need to stop hding behind the kids and talk about how divorce/reconciliation benefits each of you. You perceive yourself as benefiting more from reconciliation, your W perceives she would benefit more from a divorce. So, surprise, surprise, you think reconciliation is setting a better example for the kids and she thinks her divorcing you sets a better example for the kids.

If you want your W to reconcile, I think you need to stop trying to make her feel guilty about how she is hurting the kids, which I suspect is how she sees your arguments about their welfare. Did you think about how your A would hurt them, by precipitating a divorce, back when you had the A? You need to show her how staying in the marriage benefits her, and that you recognize that the person who first put the kids' well being in jeopardy was you. Otherwise, I guarantee you that what she is hearing is that you had your fun, but now you want to make sure you don't lose the comforts of home. I'm not saying that's how you really feel, just that's how you look to her, and how you look to her is what you have to worry about right now.

To put this in Biblical terms, look at the parable of the Prodigal Son. He didn't return asking to be restored to his status as a son of the house. He returned saying he knew he messed up as a son and begging to be allowed to be a servant, with the recognition that even that could be denied him. That is real repentance.

Do not question your thoughts here because you are right. A restored marriage is a POWERFUL testimony!

<small>[ October 02, 2003, 03:25 AM: Message edited by: LoveMyEx ]</small>

If we apply the story of the Prodigal Son, then we must not leave out the reaction the son received from his father. Yes, the son came back with repentance and humility. And his father threw a celebration for him, threw beautiful expensive robes on to him (treated him like a king), and he RAN to him embracing him and said NOTHING about what his son had done.

<small>[ October 02, 2003, 03:26 AM: Message edited by: LoveMyEx ]</small>

Dear All:

And I have repented repeatedly. And I have been showing her real changes in my emotional, spirtual, and physical well-being. I truly feel that I have grown closer to GOD during this crisis. And you know something; I really like these changes in me.

It is not my place to hide behind our children as suggested by Elspeth. Indeed, I do not use the children`s interests against her and I have not tried to make her guilty at all. I go through daily life caring for the children as best I can. As it is, they are with me 90 % of the time. We lead a quiet life of daily routines and I tell them everyday that I love them; lots of hugging too. When my wife delivered her quote regarding how our divorce will teach our children that they should fight for their rights, I remained silent. I was not combative with her. It is not my place to condemn or judge her. I know that only God can touch her where she most needs to be touched. And it will happen in God`s time, not in mine.

I just let her be. When I see her, I am kind, helpful, courteous, gentle, and loving just like I always was to her. By no means was I the perfect husband; far from it, but overall, I believe I was a good husband. And yes, I did sin badly (seven separate one night stands over a 12 year period), but I have asked forgiveness from God, my wife, and from my children. Forgiveness will never change the past, but it can heal the future. I am deeply and forever changed by this crisis. I see just how destructive infidelity is to a family. It was thoughtless and cruel of me each and every time. My "one night stands" have become my children`s "one year nightmare"; and the end of their pain is not yet in sight!! Shame on me!

After my confession; after I returned home as a prodigal, my message to my wife has been consistent. I have asked her forgiveness and mercy. Judgement, I know, is now in God`s hands.

And when my wife someday will return home as a prodigal, I will accept her back unconditionally with open arms. Who am I to judge her??

Standing in Finland

<small>[ October 02, 2003, 05:56 AM: Message edited by: StandingInFinland ]</small>

Standing,
Personally, IMHO, Elspeht's comments were judgemental and presumptous towards you. I said something at first in my first post but deleted, but am not surprised to see you feeling that you have to defend yourself (which I think is a shame).

Personally, I think you'd be better going to a pastor with these thoughts/questions. I truly do. Submission is a Biblical concept and it is not a bad one either. I was thinking of it today as all the cars were stopped at a red light. I thought of how there was no policeman around so if a car went, they would get away with it. There is nothing stopping us from going through the red light. But we SUBMIT. We submit to laws, to lights, to each other.

Praise the Lord, Standing, for your change! May God be with you and heal your marriage and continue to do this good work in you! I did not get any sort of impression of you "hiding behind your kids" as El suggested presumptously (I assume he does not know you; thus, that is a presumptous statement in which he assumes to know your heart and motives). Don't defend yourself here or anywhere else! Even if you have sinned, you do not need to defend yourself to anyone here! If there is any sin, confess it to God and receive His forgiveness and don't allow someone's judgement of you to cause you to feel that you owe explanations.

NOWHERE in the Bible are we told to ever "fight for our rights." If Jesus fought for his "rights", well... need I say that He would not have died on the cross and we'd all basically be headed for hell!

As for the way you are responding to your wife, it sounds to me that you are doing so in a godly and forebearing manner. God WILL bless and honor you for being kind, gentle, forebearing, etc... and for confessing your sins and turning from them.

I would encourage you to not confess though the specifics of your sins to anonymous public people who are all too willing to give you "advice" based on your sins. Confess them to God and receive His forgiveness and continue to grow and change by being faithful in church, by being in the Word, through prayer, etc.

In one aspect, yes, forgiveness does change the past! What's done has been done... but because of the blood of Christ, when we seek forgiveness and truly repent, God sees our sin NO MORE!! I finally figured out recently that that is why David in the Bible was called a righteous man. I couldn't figure out how He could be called that... and a man after God's heart... because he committed adultery and murdered. The thing is... and this is truly profound... he repented and sought forgiveness. His sin was wiped away!! Yes, consequences remained, but God didn't from then on say, David the adulterer or David the murderer. No, it was David, a righteous man. His sins were forgiven. God saw them no more. Neither does He see yours. So that is one manner in which the past is changed.

Lord, bless this man and heal his marriage. Soften his wife's heart towards him and continue to do this new and good work in him and in his marriage! This is my prayer!

Standing, keep pressing on. You are forgiven. Pray fervently for your wife, for your marriage, and for God's strength, wisdom, and guidance. Do not allow yourself to be condemned by anyone's words. "There is NO condemnation for those in Christ Jesus." (Some things I read last night had a ring of condemnation to them, in my opinion).

But... it is YOUR marriage.. not ours. It is YOUR faith... not ours. You fight the fight and keep the faith, and do not let anyone or anything keep you from serving the Lord with all your heart. You have the right attitude towards your wife. Her words rightly grieve you (it is wrong to think that divorce is a good thing... esp. for children), but you are also right to forebear with her and to respond with kindness.

May God be with you and I really felt that I needed to encourage you in this way! He is working in you and He WILL continue to as you seek Him and obey Him.

God bless!