Zuzu and I had a conversation - at the same time I was chattering with someone else. AND the GIST of the conversation was that I feel like I need a very strong man - physical, spiritual, and in other ways too... So far, I'm not finding that - and I'm giving up the search (yes Star, I listen - it just takes time). But I want other's thoughts on this message --- please? I'm feeling insecure and doubting my own choices again. I know what I want and need - but for some reason, I feel like I'm the one who isn't holding up my end... WHY??? Where is that feeling coming from??? And -- why do I continually find men who aren't interested in 'FAMILY'?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Last night - our conversation. I keep thinking about it. I'm feeling overwhelmed by emotions at the moment, and I'm not sure where they are coming from, other than the conversation last night keeps popping up.

I need strength and assurance. I need security, and someone who can and will be there for me - in every sense of the word. I have, in the past, been the leader and the 'strong arm' in relationships, and I honestly don't want to be that again. I want a husband who can and will take the innitiative and be the leader in our home. I want and need a man who is not only capable, but WILLING to step into my life and BE a husband AND a father to my family.

Last night in the conversation, you mentioned that my kids are just like yours in the way that they won't LET you be part of their lives unless they want you to be... I tried to focus that thought on your children - because YOUR children should be most important to you at this point, and you brought it back to where you are sticking with your current plan, which is essentially waiting until they come to you.

Children don't come to you - you have to go to them. They are babies in the crib, needing attention, and you have to go to them. They are toddlers falling down and need you to help them up, you have to go to them. They are in school (being educated - doesn't matter where) and you want them to learn, they want to play, you have to go to them. They are teenagers playing games of love and having fun, creating lives of their own, you have to go to them. They are adults, living life, and making an effort to be what they think you want them to be, and not concerned about where you are, you HAVE TO GO TO THEM.

All through life, I've heard people say "To have friends, you have to be a friend." For some strange reason last night - I realized what this means. I have to be willing to make the effort to BE THERE for my friends, in order for my friends to want to be there for me. It isn't necessarily - the FRIENDS - but my children, my family, and my friends. If I sit back and wait for them to come to me - I won't have any friends or family, or anyone else in my life. I have to step out there, make the effort, and be part of their lives - and I have to be willing to do this throughout the relationship.

I watched you make the effort in the early part of our relationship, and you started out great, but more and more I felt that slipping away. Because - here's the clincher - I felt like you wanted me and not my kids.

I think you need to be honest with yourself (and I need to be honest with myself too). You said once, "How can I be a father to your kids when I'm not even a good father to my own kids?"

I feel I'm asking too much of you - and I'm not willing to settle for less. If being a parent is not what you want to do --- I'm not the woman you want. Because PARENTING is my life at this point. There is a part of me that wants a husband to be there, to love and to cherrish, and someone who loves me back, but HE has to want ALL of me - and that includes the part of me that has FOUR children to care for and raise.

If you think about it, I've asked about your children, I've been concerned about your children, I've been willing to talk about them - because I feel they should be a primary concern for you at this point in time. But, I honestly feel, after last nights conversation that I'm forcing my values on you - and that isn't what I want to do.

You've mentioned several times that I might be wanting to 'forget about us' - and I had never thought about it that way. I'm struggling with the way 'we' are going, because I feel that my values are very different from yours. The intensity with which I desire family commitment just isn't there for you. I care very much about you - and I do love you.

But, it isn't fair for me to expect something from you - that you don't want to give.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thoughts please....

<small>[ October 06, 2003, 09:13 PM: Message edited by: sj *trouble* ]</small>

I loved the letter, Jan. It's you all over, it's the truth, and it's well-written. Even HE might get what you're trying to say. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> It's also gentle, so don't worry about that (IMO).

This bothers me though, as I'm sure it does you:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> but for some reason, I feel like I'm the one who isn't holding up my end... WHY??? Where is that feeling coming from??? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't know why you feel this way. But maybe ask some questions: What could I have done differently? Did I mislead him in my expectations? What part of MY END do I feel I left untouched?

And, of course, pray about those things.

On to this:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And -- why do I continually find men who aren't interested in 'FAMILY'?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is that it, or are you finding "unsafe people?" You mentioned how he's not getting the point that things just aren't working out. He's ignoring your boundaries. He's an unsafe person.

Drs. Cloud and Townsend have another interesting book, besides "Boundaries" and "Boundaries in Marriage." It's called "Safe People." Let me see if I can link you to the articles on Dr. Cloud's site from this book: This isn't the one <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> , but it's similar Article on "Safe People"

What do you think?

Petals

PS. I prayed for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> It will work out.

Thanks Zuzu!!! I appreciate your thoughts -- checking the site now... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Thanks again.

Jan

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I feel like I need a very strong man - physical, spiritual, and in other ways too... So far, I'm not finding that - and I'm giving up the search </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">SJ, can you expand on this? Why are you giving up the search? You have high expectations but I don't see that as a bad thing, as long as they are reasonable.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> And -- why do I continually find men who aren't interested in 'FAMILY'? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think they are few and far between. In all my life I've met only two men who looked forward to having a family. All the others acted as if they were forced into it, or expected to be forced into it in the future.

AFS ---

I think I'm 'giving up the search' for a man who can specifically meet the needs --- and just meeting them myself... until one comes along who does meet the needs... Surely there's one really great guy out there looking for ME. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Okay, so cynical doesn't work for me --- but the reality is - I have too much to do - just living to keep spending time SEARCHING. As much as I desire to meet that special guy, I just really don't have time to keep digging up bodies and recreating them to fit me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ---- and I'm not having much luck at finding the real live thing.

No, I haven't tossed in the towel --- I'm just going to keep on living my life and if by some chance Romeo comes along and isn't into self-defeatism, I'll face off and see if he's up to a match or not... I enjoy a good challenge, but I'm really tired of the guys who want to sit back and watch me do all the work of the relationship --- I really want a participant in the life scrimage.

All clips, quips, and cliche's aside - I want a PARTNER. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

As far as forcing guys into being 'family men' --- um --- WRONG girl. I told the first one when he decided it couldn't possibly be his (honeymoon baby - and I was a virgin) that he didn't have to be there - I was quite capable of raising my child on my own --- AND I DID! And the second one married me after I was pregnant and he knew I was pregnant - and I'd told him austamanyana/austalavista too. He wanted to play but didn't want to pay - and eventually when he left - he just left --- I have four wonderful children and I'm their only parent. I don't NEED a Daddy figure - but if I ever add a Daddy figure to the plate again --- he danged darn dam*ed well better want to be there --- or he can go stack cotton bails in a desert too.

I gotta ask here --- if men don't wanna be DADDIES why don't they get that BIG STICK under control and find a way NOT TO HAVE BABIES???? In my NOT SO HUMBLE opinion --- if a man marries a great woman who TELLS HIM UP FRONT - "I WANT KIDS" then he better be prepared to step up to the plate and BE A DAD!!! IF not --- leave THAT great woman alone and go find one that doesn't want kids.

NOT all GREAT women want kids --- but don't screw one over who does - and leave her wanting a family she can't have because she's a 'marked' woman.

Whew --- I'm really not angry --- <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Just suddenly extremely opinionated about this topic --- maybe it's the direction my day has taken - TODAY....

IT was MONDAY!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Jan

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> if men don't wanna be DADDIES why don't they get that BIG STICK under control and find a way NOT TO HAVE BABIES </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I couldn't agree more. I think a lot of men (generally speaking) that don't want the responsibility of children also don't want the responsibility of preventing them either. You know, avoiding responsibility in all aspects of their lives.

Anyway, I'm glad to hear you haven't thrown in the towel <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . I'm sure there is more than one man out there for you. As soon as you stop looking they'll all show up at once <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> .

I never was good at the single life --- I don't mind being alone occasionally - but I'm not good as a 'dating machine' and I don't do the 'alone thing' well at all.

I just really want it to be a mutual relationship this time rather than one sided. I really prefer being part of a duo though. If I have to be the only participant in the relationship - I'd rather be single.

any comments welcome.