This is my last attempt. It is a tough love measure. Plan B hasn't worked and frankly my LB is probably empty. I just don't know if I should send this or not. It's my believe that the OM is growing impatient because my WW doesn't seem to have the freedom to attend parties of mutual friends that she once did. Of course, it maybe that she can't stand to be in my company. I don't have any problems being pleasant around her when we have to meet. So I don't know what is going on for sure. Please read the letter and counsel me. Would you send it? What do you think?

-------------------------------------------------

Dearest W;

It’s been a rough summer; in fact all this year has been rough. I have come to a decision, and it is probably one that you will agree with and that is, it’s time to move on. It took a while to accept that you wanted out of our M permanently. I loved you so much that I just kept hoping beyond hope that we could put it back together, but much time has passed. And too, there is OM and maybe others.

I loved you with all of my heart and the best I could. I knew I loved you from the first day I saw you. Some things got in the way; health, work, child rearing, other people, etc. Some of these were my fault, some yours, some not yours or mine. I always believed our love could survive anything but it seems I have misjudged. I got marriage counseling bought tapes and books from MB that I hoped could show us how to reestablish our love and build a better M than what we had, but I never got the chance to share them with you.

I must commend you for your unwavering position. You always said you didn’t know what you wanted, and you never said, “I love you” or gave me any hope in the slightest way. And you have steadfastly stuck with OM. This hurt so much but in the long run it did help me to cope with the reality of our situation quicker and realize that I must let go. I will be filing for divorce and I hope that we can meet as often as necessary to work out all the details that go along with this. It may be a little uncomfortable at times, having been through it before. I will be amicable and understanding throughout the process. I only want what’s best for you and fair for me.

I never twisted your arm to make you marry me and I won’t twist your arm to make you stay. I fought for you, the best way I could during the separation, but in truth, I was always so hurt that I could never be myself. I got counseling, exercised, lost weight and got treated for my sexual dysfunction, bought the course for us to make a new and better marriage. Also, I prayed and prayed. Well it didn’t help us, it seems. I am not sorry I did it though because it did help me to feel whole again. I feel a sense of peace now. I am saddened by the way things are turning out, but I don’t feel regret from apathy. I did everything in my power to mend our marriage. It just isn’t a one-man job.

I hope you will be kind in the property settlement. My inheritance from my mom is gone. My D owns nothing but his tools and nothing of SM’s house. I only have about 5 or 6 more years before retirement. You will have all of your mom’s inheritance to yourself and you have at least 15 more years to prepare for your retirement. I ask you to let me refinance the house in my name and accept a partial cash settlement and then the rest when I sell the house in the future. D said she feels more comfortable on her own house and wants to live here, so I ask for child support until she is no longer dependent on us or if she changes her mind and decides to live with you. I ask you to work this out between just us. Others may say you are being a fool, but I am counting on your generosity and fairness. I have been the best H I could be and been supportive especially with D’s care considering you long hours at work. Please help me to secure a decent life in retirement. I had never considered that we wouldn’t be there for each other in our later years. Remember the sundial in Hawaii. “Come grow old with me, the best is yet to be”. But that seems remote now.

I have always wanted your happiness and I thought I was the right man to do that and I maybe I am, but became frustrated when I saw you wanted something else. I still only want your happiness. Love is like that. I set you free and there by set myself free as well. I will pray that God guides you through the years ahead.

All my love,
M

Plan B hasn't worked
How do you know?

I just don't know if I should send this or not.
No, you shouldn't. You are in Plan B (you did send a Plan B letter, correct?) and only for a whole 2+ months. Give it another year at least.

Monty:

I agree with Chris. It hasn't been a long enough plan B. From what I remember, you did a fabulous job with good coaching when your W was in the hospital. Keep up your plan B.

If you do decide 2 DV, don't send a letter like this. Just file. Let her find out about it by being served. Don't file unless you're really done, and are ready 2 truly move on with your life. I don't believe you're there yet.

Been thinking about your sitch,
-2long

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Chris -CA123:
<strong>Plan B hasn't worked
How do you know?

I just don't know if I should send this or not.
No, you shouldn't. You are in Plan B (you did send a Plan B letter, correct?) and only for a whole 2+ months. Give it another year at least.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Chis:
I have been feeling like something is hanging over my head and about to drop. First off, TMCM thinks this might be an exit affair. Both he and I hope he is wrong. He said so. But I think he is right.

Next, OMW called me last week. She was really upset. OM's mother just died. At the funeral OM brought my WW and not his wife. He kissed my WW on the lips in front of OMW and his family at the funeral. OMW has been the primary care taker of OM's mother for the past few months until she died. OM and WW's boldness has gone to new levels.

OM has broken off contact with his 20 and 19 kids and refuses to give them anymore support for college. His D, who is pregnant, wants to come to the house where OMW lives. OM say no, unless she pays rent! Sounds like a soap opera.

The point of all this is, that OMW believes things are going to start happening really fast now. I am concerned. Neither my WW or I have filed for separation and the OM apprears to be cruel and money grubbing. He will probably enfluence my WW in a bad way financially thoughout the property settlement, if she files soon. He may encourage her to spend heavily before the filing knowing that I will be liable for half the debt.

Monty:

If you are concerned about your WW being manipulated in2 destroying YOUR finances with this guy, then do what 2MCM suggested and call a lawyer and protect yourself NOW.

As for the rest of what you told us. Crass as hell, 2 be sure, but not all that unusual for WS behavior. There is still no evidence 2 suggest 2 me that plan B isn't "working" because the A is still new. I think they're being bold precisely because they want 2 "insist", in effect, that disclosure of their illicit relationship can't harm it because theirs is "special."

Gee, they'll be the first pair of affairees 2 have a truly "special" relationship. Nobody can touch that! (not even his kids, it seems - sit back and watch just how long THAT will work).

Monty, none of this may matter if you've truly had enough. It seems like your plan B is 2short, but in the end only you can tell how you're doing. I seem 2 remember you counseled with SH? if so, are you still talking 2 him? ...and if not, why not? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hang on, guy,
-2long

My point is Plan B works. So to say it doesn't, you probably mean she has not returned. The affair may not end and the ws may not return to the marriage. Nothing says that Plan B WILL make that happen.

Plan B works in in one of two ways.
1 – The affair ends, the ws wants to return to the marriage and work everything out.
2 – The ws does not “wake up” before the bs decides to end the marriage. The decision is when you have no love left for your spouse and you do not want her to return, not when you are pissed off or think that she won’t return so you decide to end it. You end it when YOU want.

Also, remember that most affair end within 6 months of discovery. Since you only found out in May, you still have 'till November to even be average... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> (I know it sucks but hey...)

First off, TMCM thinks this might be an exit affair.
And if it is, so what? Why a hurry to get divorced?

At the funeral OM brought my WW and not his wife.
So his family can see what a [censored] he is. (and her too)

OM and WW's boldness has gone to new levels.
Which will eventually be their undoing.

OM has broken off contact with his 20 and 19 kids and refuses to give them anymore support for college. His D, who is pregnant, wants to come to the house where OMW lives. OM say no, unless she pays rent! Sounds like a soap opera.
So how long you think your wife is gonna want to put up with crap like no compassion for his own children?

OM apprears to be cruel and money grubbing. He will probably enfluence my WW in a bad way financially thoughout the property settlement, if she files soon. He may encourage her to spend heavily before the filing knowing that I will be liable for half the debt.
If he does this, then he will look like an [censored] to her again.

A few things you can do.
- Consult with a lawyer so you don’tget blindsided. Let him know that you are not seeking a divorce at this time, but wish to protect yourself financially.
- Cancel any joint credit cards and bank accounts IN WRITING. Also, make sure you call them to make sure your name is removed from any accounts.

<small>[ October 07, 2003, 04:57 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

Hi Monty

I've never responded to you before, but I have followed your story from the beginning. I just want to tell you that I too thought about writing a "goodbye letter" to my WH because I suspect his affair is an "Exit" and my timeframe for discovery is about the same as yours. My WH now lives with OW and they do everything together as a "normal" couple.

I would advice you to wait - don't file for D and stick to your Plan B a little longer.

Blessings from
Danish

Just a thought about their boldness! They want you and the OMW to react, ie: filing, then they don't have to, it will be one you and not where it belongs on them!

Dawn <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by daybreak:
<strong>Just a thought about their boldness! They want you and the OMW to react, ie: filing, then they don't have to, it will be one you and not where it belongs on them!

Dawn <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What you say may be true. The thing that confuses the heck out of me is not so much my sitch but the OM and OMW's sitch. To rehash some old info, they were married 28 years and splite up because of his drinking problems. OMW has been trying to get a divorce from OM for 19 mos. now. It is OM who has refused give her one.

Now since my WW came into his life, OM is now threatning OMW with divorce (who wants it anyway) She will give him one but he doesn't do anything but sabre rattle. I don't know if OM is still in love with his wife and trying to make her jealous and take him back or whether he loves my WW? OMW will not take him back until he stops drinking. He is 50 and has been an alcoholic since his teens. I doubt if he will stop and so does OMW.

I read "Love Must Be Tough" by Dobson. My W was taking me for granted for years. I think maybe that is why she seems to feel like I will hold on forever. I won't. I feel pretty good now about myself and my future, but it is a future without her that I find myself thinking about. This is recent, within the last month or so. I went back into Plan B as was suggested to me by many and Harley too. I don't know if during her surgery, my doting over her made her think that she still had power over me or what.

Monty
Glad I stumbled upon your thread here tonight.

Please don't sent this letter, and don't give up!
It will affirm to her that you don't care to fight for your marriage, or for her. Give Plan B a year, at least!

My husband (the BS) filed early on after DDay. We didnt' know about MB. He now admits he rushed to the divorce, although he's still not committed to a new relationship in the least.

The exit affair idea is not one I quite agree with. What makes one affair an 'exit' one, over another one? All affairs are a huge betrayal, and in that state of confusion people do at times separate and think it's over with the spouse. Give this time, her fog will lift--I'm almost sure of it.

You are not being a fool by holding on. You still love her, and you believe the marriage can be saved at some point when she 'wakes up' from this hideous state. If you file for divorce, you're making this far too easy for her/OM. Continue Plan B, Monty.

Just my view,
H_P

Editing to add: I think you're perhaps feeling overwhelmed by loneliness,and hence the desperate feeling you have. It's normal. I felt so lonely a year ago I could have crumbled. In time, you'll learn better how to stand on your own. Give this time. If your wife is anything like I was, she is having serious doubts about this affair she's in.
Trust me on that one!

<small>[ October 07, 2003, 10:27 PM: Message edited by: hopeful_person ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by hopeful_person:
<strong>.

......The exit affair idea is not one I quite agree with. What makes one affair an 'exit' one, over another one? All affairs are a huge betrayal, and in that state of confusion people do at times separate and think it's over with the spouse. Give this time, her fog will lift--I'm almost sure of it.....

..... I think you're perhaps feeling overwhelmed by loneliness,and hence the desperate feeling you have. It's normal. I felt so lonely a year ago I could have crumbled. In time, you'll learn better how to stand on your own. Give this time. If your wife is anything like I was, she is having serious doubts about this affair she's in.
Trust me on that one!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Glad you found me HP.
Some features of an exit affair, from what I understand, is the person had given up on the marriage before the affair started and considers it beyond repair. The affair helps them get over the hurt from separation and divorce. It isn't like a person who is on the fence or one who still loves the person they are betraying. If my WW has any love for me, she keeps it well hidden.

She was a cake eater before Plan B, but only to fool family and friends. She didn't want anyone to know she had an OM while she was separated but still married. When I confronted her about the affair, she said it's not an affair because it started during the separation. Of course I don't agree.

Yes, you know what I am feeling. I have grown much stronger, and I do get out and do lots of activities, however, a lot of what I do is with friends that are all couples. They don't mind that I am a single, but it would be nice to have just a female companion to talk and share with. I miss that. As I come out of my shell, I am wanting that more and more. My wife wasn't all that committed to making the marriage work for 4 or 5 years and I don't know if she would want to come back, with a changed attitude and make a better marriage. So far her way of dealing with problems is to ignore and then run away from them once they fester from neglect. So I am still trying to make up my own mind now about waiting for her or not. Im at the point where I think getting back together would be a good idea, if we are dedicated, but after the hell I have been through the last year, I have toughened up a lot and beginning to feel pretty secure on my own. Am I falling out of love? I don't know. I want what we had years ago, but I have learned to survive without her.

Monty - Tear up that letter, protect your self financially and continue with your life and Plan B. My marriage is a blended "soap opera" family. You cannot imagine all the havoc. You've got to give this more time. The odds are way in your favor, the alcohlic OM, the fights with grown kids, him losing a parent. He will be extremely needy and your wife will not get her needs met. Their behavior at the funeral is just the tip of the iceberg. Develop a hobby while all of this is going on, or watch Jerry Springer! Your wife has gotten herself into a real mess. The holidays are coming up, and then the drinking, family disfunction, etc. will really escalate. Wait til after the Superbowl in January. Hugs to you, don't give up.

Hello to all who advised me. I called a lawyer to find out what is what. He is advising me to file for divorce right away. I told him I didn't want to do that just yet but I did want to protect myself from her debt.

He told me the only way to do that in the State of Louisiana is to file for separation and divorce with one of three documents. a 101, 102 or 103 type. Someone on the MB site corrected me once before, but my understanding is that all three types protect you from the others debt after one of them is filed with the court.

101 filed at the start of 6 mos living separate and apart
102 Filled some time during the 6 mos living separate and apart.
103 After the required 6 mos separate and apart.

In other words, every debt and every asset is in a community state or equally shared until after the filing. Normally my WW wouldn't do something to wreak our credit just to hurt me, because we both have jobs that require us to have perfect credit or we will be fired. And normally I would trust that, but she has done so many stupid and bazaar things since she is with the OM, I doubt her wisdom now.

The lawyer told me I can file for a type 102 or 103. The 103 is for the divorce, but the 102 is filed some time after the beginning of living separate and apart.

I can file now and sit on it for 90 days. After the 90 days she has to be served. So she wouldn't know that I had filed. The filing can be dismissed at any time before the divorce by the petitioner (me).

I feel like I am being cornered into filing something for financial protection. If anyone has any experience, advice on this please post a reply.

Funny, I was all full of spit and vinegar, when it was my idea at first, but that was before reading all the posts from you all advising me to give Plan B more time. Knowing that it will lead to divorce if I don't stop it make me feel a little unsure of myself too.

Only people here at MB give me any hope to save my marriage. Everyone else including my relatives are telling me that she is gone and to go on with my life and that I am not facing reality and that she will never come back. I can't bounce ideas of them because they don't want to hear anymore about it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Here's my 2 cents:

I had the same feelings you did about filing. I was trying Plan B, and I actually had some progress... AFTER I FILED FOR DV! There is nothing that says you can't file but continue Plan B. It sounds like your WW is leaving you no choice. She has made the choices, now she is going to have to live with the consequences. File to protect yourself now. Even if Plan B works a year from now and you're divorced, you can still get remarried. People do it all the time.

You should probably get the lawyer to put conditions in the papers on all the "stuff" you want to keep. You filing puts the burden on her to prove that you don't deserve what you declare as yours to keep. From what you've stated about the OM and his influence, if she files first, you'll be in a bad spot for sure, and she'll play hardball. Next paragraph will help handle that one, and give you more leverage.

I'm not familiar with your story, but if you have solid proof (video, pictures, emails, tapes) she is guilty of infidelity, it's good to show the lawyer, and it will be great ammo in the custody hearing, especially when added onto your D's wishes.

I wish you the best, and stay strong.

File to protect yourself now.
If you want a divorce, then by all means filew. Just make sure you want one.

Even if Plan B works a year from now and you're divorced, you can still get remarried. People do it all the time.
And your point?

[sarcasm mode on]
It must be okay then, since people do it all the time.
[sarcasm mode off]
People have affairs all the time and recover from them so it's okay to have an affair?

Monty - The 102 sounds good to me. If you file it fairly quickly, the 90 days will be up around time for Superbowl Sunday, and I bet your wife will be changing her tune by then. Stay in Plan B - by the way, is your daughter with you? I hope so.

Monty NOBODY but you knows all the facts about your marriage and your WW. I made my comments to you about your WW's affair being an exit A because it SEEMS like your WW's A fits the profile for it BUT that doesn't mean that it IS and that you should get a divorce ASAP.

As far as what you attorney told you, I would suggest that you get a second attorney's opinion before you take anymore steps towards divorce. Just like in every profession, there are ethical and unethical attorneys and you must make sure that the one you hire is an ethical one that is looking out for your best interests and not solely on fattening up his pocketbook.

<small>[ October 08, 2003, 08:18 PM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

TMCM, Chris, Danish
It's true, no one knows about my marriage but me. I still think you are right about the exit affair. But looking back on it all, my WW actions suggests that she may have had an affair with another man that I mentioned a few months ago in a post titled "What the hell is this". That's when I found out that in addition to OM she is seeing regularly, there was a married man she was seeing and another old boyfriend who now has hepatitus. I was like she had suddenly lost all perspective.

I do think a 2nd lawyer's opinion is a worthy suggestion, since this is such a profound step. Thanks TMCM for the suggestion. My head is buzzing with decisions to make.

Since the hysterectomy, my D tells me she is even more unbalanced, going from euphoria to crying and saying things like, "what the hell have I done to my life" then back like nothing was wrong.

believer:
I still only have my daughter part of the time. The last three weeks, WW has had my D stay with her to help her around her house while WW recovers from surgery. She gets around ok but can pick up anything heavy. D Wants to be with her mother, but not when the OM is around. I don't think anything goes on with my D there. I believe she would tell me. Of course there is some chance I could be wrong.

nasakid, daybreak:
I have to sleep on this decision and also talk to another lawyer for a second opinion that was suggested. I still think I am dealing with someone who is in a desperate MLC. She may be enjoying the sex, during sex, but seems to be miserable when she is alone. Contantly calling people to try and make it better.

I myself am not sure what I want now. Most people on this site have had seemingly normal marriages until an affair started. My WW has been uncommitted for years. That's why I think TMCM is right about the exit affair. She has probably been planning to get out of this marriage for years, but needed me to take care of my D until she could drive herself around. I think she had more faith in her ability to be alone. Nothing could be further from the truth. She can't stand a moment alone. The good mutual friends we've had for years, don't approve of OM and have avoided her. They are still very close to me and spend a lot of time supporting me through this. I think my WW is feeling isolated. Wanting her old life back isn't good enough for me though. It was miserable watching her flirt and being cold to me and my D. She would have to want me back and work at being trust worthy. I don't know if I can ever trust her again with all the lying, sneaking around and deception.

My greatest problem with taking her back is her lying. Now that I see the ease that she has with lying, I don't know if I can ever believe what she says or has said. I am not angry with her, I am not even hurt much by her anymore. It may just be the antidepressents I am taking.

If after talking to the 2nd lawyer and he also suggests filing to protect my finances, I will probably do the type 102, sit on it for the 90 days without serving her as </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">believer </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">has suggested. That will get me throught the Holidays on Plan B. I have another question for all of you about how to handle the holidays and my D. I'll start a new topic for that.

Thanks

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2long:
<strong>
As for the rest of what you told us. Crass as hell, 2 be sure, but not all that unusual for WS behavior. There is still no evidence 2 suggest 2 me that plan B isn't "working" because the A is still new. I think they're being bold precisely because they want 2 "insist", in effect, that disclosure of their illicit relationship can't harm it because theirs is "special."......

......Monty, none of this may matter if you've truly had enough. It seems like your plan B is 2short, but in the end only you can tell how you're doing. I seem 2 remember you counseled with SH? if so, are you still talking 2 him? ...and if not, why not? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hang on, guy,
-2long</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree with your take on the boldness. OM and my WW were childhood friends, and OM and WW still have many of the same friends. Not many have left the burg that we live in. I think they have acceptance from those friends, but OM family. He has always been the black sheep. I know some of the family through clubs I belong to and they have said my WW sure doesn't have a prize in him. HOWEVER, I don't think my WW cares all that much if she looses him so much because the I believe the one she really fantasies about is married. I think that is the one she may have had the affair with before we split up. That OM says he stays with his W because she threatens suicide if he left her. (Ha!). If he did leave his W, I think my WW would dump the OM she has for him.

I haven't talked to S. Harley lately, because frankly I can't afford it. I really do wish I could. He is excellent in comparison to 2 other MC that I have previously seen.