Hey, JL. Just wanted to touch base and hoping you are still here. Things have gone better this week again. Hope you and your family are all well. <P>------------------<BR>Fresh Start

Hi FS,<P>I am glad you are doing well. How is the new job going? Is your H having any luck with his job searches? I hope so.<P>Things here are fine, chaos reigns supreme. Just got a long weekend of work to do.<P>Do your children like the new house? Are the aclimating to the new surroundings? Sometimes it is hard for them, but other times they just slide right in and have a good time.<P>Must go, and get more work done.<P>Thanks for looking me up.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Of course, I look you up...you are kind of my rock on MB--somehow your wisdom steers me aright..maybe since you claim to be old (just poking fun--we are only as old as we feel but I don't want to turn 39 in two more weeks either!)<P>I LOVE my job! I cannot believe the high quality wonderful people and cannot describe the joy of a workplace resounding with gales of laughter...I never heard that kind of laughter daily at church (although in the Admin building we are all Christians)<P>The children are sweet and staff are super. It's like a dream, JL. I know it's not a perfect place and all of us will have bad days and say things we regret occasionally but the ladies are very supportive and forgiving...and soooo patient with me. They have really made it easy for me to learn quickly. <P>I have heard great compliments regarding several volunteers which means my predecessor chose well--the kind of people who offer to volunteer are awesome so it makes it easy.<P>H is trying his best to be positive about job search. He went online tonight (he is not the computer geek I am but could likely teach me lots easily) to search but this seems a terrible time--students are winding up jobs and the big summer push is over--I know God has something special. Still waiting to hear from the church but suspect it won't happen. We did have a small tiff/argument the other night..the Crusty thing is still an issue with me and I also did a similar thing for my young friend L. which in some ways I regret but not completely. We got home from our terrific wkd away to L's call she needed my help. She felt her parents kicked her out--she told me this and other things but I knew there were huge gaps in the story and taking her in for only two nights and 3 days kinda wanted to kick out this 19 myself! I instructed her Tuesday to call her Mom or I would need to since I didn't want to be in the middle and she herself acknowledged my friendship goes to her and her Mom. So glad I called--they talked with L's Dad, also and L's BF. I think L is having either post-traumatic syndrome or depression/breakdown...she had a very upsetting incident a few mos ago that I helped her thru (I cannot do without sleep but spent 2 very late nights with her--one all nighter in Emerg) while her Mom was on holiday with her Dad--anyway---I admitted to H that I was likely doing a similar thing as he with Crusty and we need to stop bringing people to our house to help them (H hated the no Crusty in house idea so I lose) He got REALLY defensive and said I wouldn't let him be a minister then as ministers help people...I told him how many of our ministry peers bring people into their homes on a regular basis? I also asked him how he would feel if Crusty ever tried anything with me or the girls (his own daughter won't speak because of something he did---he claims not to remember it and she won't say what) H saw my point more clearly.<P>It seemed to help us both. I was able to admit that I am feeling terribly troubled with memories I fight as A began in August 2000. Everywhere I go I see reminders that don't bring joy or sweet thoughts..just pain and shame..H was so sweet...I told him I want to write a 6 mos post if I can for MB and remarked on all the milestones in a short 6 mos but still some troubles...he said Look at it this way--in 6 more mos, it will be a whole year behind you. <P>He has a saying he uses in 5th Step with AA members...It's hard to walk forward when you keep looking backward. It's been on my mind alot the past couple days.<P>The girls are doing better. They both sense we will not live her long. H talks about having a house next year--yes, I believe in miracles but doubt it will be so soon and have no taste for moving yet although we are a bit cramped--putting L on the couch made me realize we aren't in a roamingly spacious place..but it's clean and nice and cozy.<P>11 (who turns 12 the day before my b'day--bet you can't tell I love b'days ) went to Day Camp this week. she hated the first day but gave it a second chance and the week was great. She was having trouble caring for her long hair so a friend cut it to chin length (11's idea) and it is so cute and made her feel better. <BR>14 seems to making her usual summer leap of maturity--I think it was delayed coming but understand--every summer she advances but loses a lot of gain (not all) as soon as she gets back to school. My work is about 6 city blocks from their school and I can flex my time around their needs as well as my clients and my own and H's! 14 is entering the free Christian education program in public school in which 11 has been enrolled the past 4 years so I am excited about that.<P>I have forgotten what type of work it is you do--38 and my brain is developing memory loss pockets hee hee<P>I was a little concerned about you as I did not want to get mixed up in the barrage some gave you last week. I knew you are a very strong mature person so felt rather secure you would stick around but just wanted to be sure so thanks for answering so quick. Sorry you have a pile of work. Make sure you take some time to waltz your W around or something fun!

FS,<P>Nice to hear from you. 39???? is a good age. Actually, I think the 40's were pretty good as well. Or you can become like the old comedian Jack Benny and quit celebrating birthdays and start celebrating turning 39 yet AGAIN. Let's see I've had 17 39th birthdays. <P>OH, don't worry about the thing last week. I just find it annoying when people misread what is posted or choose to interpret what is posted in a negative way. It very rarely is. Once, I know someone really doesn't see where I am coming from, then I just disengage. No, need to fight about it.<P>It sounds as if your job is great. I suspect your enthusiasm and happiness with it permeates the household. I do hope that your H can find something that he would like. It is very hard sometimes to make the fit between what you want to do and what seems to be available. Sometimes, one has to go orthogonal to the right path and creat the job you want rather than wait for someone to offer it.<P>I've seen that done many times in my life. In fact, almost all companies are founded just for that reason. Something for him to consider is how to do what he feels driven to do, without having to ask permission from someone else. It is tough but can be rewarding.<P>I am glad your H is helping you through the "anniversary triggers" . He is a good man FS.<P>Also sounds as if the summer has been good for your girls. That is so nice. They are at a very hard age, approaching and starting the teen age years.<P>Well, I must get back to work. The computers never shut down. Nice of you to write back. Take care of yourself.<P>God Bless,<P>JL<BR>

Happy Sunday, JL...sounds like you got to come up for air during the workload <P>I know I have posted before that "this weekend's classifieds have a lot of great leads" and once again it's true. There is a terrific job H could land working as a manager of housing for a very classy senior citizens complex--actually three campuses if we read it right. Also one for an Exec Dir for Meals on Wheels and a couple other great ones. H is now eager to give his job to someone (hopefully he can find a young man) else so his current boss won't be stuck and determined to find something better before Sept. We think the church has fallen through so as you suggested he is shifting gears. You had to make me need a dictionary (hope I have one unpacked) to learn "orthogonal"...hee hee...I thought I recalled you as being a professor...maybe I am stereotyping your image lol<P>Yes, I am much happier. I went back to the store yesterday (where I worked in May/June) and chatted with one of the ladies. I told her I feel so fulfilled now. I felt a little more warmly received too.<P>H is truly a good man. Last night we sat on the couch and talked the way we used to--some was a little too negative but not about M but for the most part, my heart warmed to see us getting closer and in one sense more the way we used to be but better!<P>I am really concerned as to how to make the next couple weeks special for 14 and soon to be 12. I know something will work out.<P>Thank you for all your support and encouragement. You have been a real blessing in helping me find my way on this recovery journey. Hope you conquer your workload today and get some time to relax.<P>Being 39 for 17 years sounds cool...think I'll go for it

Yeah 39 many times is cool. <P>But my mother is having a hard time explaining how she can be 39, I am 39, and so are all of my sisters and brothers. Oh Well! it is her problem, she started it. <P>I apologize for using orthogonal on you. Just used to the math terms. No, I am not a professor but do research. There are a few of use in the research business. K and I and a few others. K is in the medical area, I am in the physical sciences.<P>Don't worry about 14 and 12, you being happy and your family together is a hugh present that they will come to really appreciate. Just love them FS, they grow up soooo fast. Don't miss the opportunity to do that.<P>Must get back to chores.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Sorry to bother you again....hope you are following TCat's How Do I Recover? He is really struggling and I feel a little close to the situation--I am pleased to share my experience but know this man needs other men's perspectives.<P>Also, another question: where is the best forum to post my 6 mos since d-day story? Wednesday is the Anniversary of it. I hope to compose it and get it on the board in the next few days. I also hope to keep it short enough to read! lol<P>Hope you are wading through the pile of work OK. I have a bizzare schedule this week with evening interviews and a very long management meeting Wed morning and somehow have to clean the basement before Friday night when we host youth group!!! Praying for sunshine so the kids can play in the giant field behind us.<P>JL, my 14 who hates school can't wait to start her new school. Guess you were right again! <P>Hey, did you waltz your wife around like I suggested?

Hi FS,<P>No, really didn't get a chance to Waltz W around. She wasn't in the waltzing mood. But someday she might be.<P>Good to hear about you D. They do come along.<P>As for the anniversary post, I think the Recovery Section is very much the place to put it.<P>I did respond to TCat. Not very diplomatically I am afraid but I suspect/hope he needed to hear some unvarnished opinions. <P>Keep your head up, it sounds like your plate is full and that is a good thing if you don't eat too fast. <P>God Bless,<P>JL

Thanks! I enjoyed your way with words about not eating too quickly from the full plate. I was spoiled this morning and got to sleep in-score! Now I'm quickly going through email before preparing for work.<P>I haven't read your response to TCat but I know he needed to hear from others. His W is too close to my experience to a large degree for me to be more objective. Plus he also had a very lengthy A and that makes him different from many I post to. I think he is rather spiritually confused but also heading in the right direction. Now I just have to go read what you wrote... <P>I hope this is not too personal to ask (and know you will either say so or just not answer if so--that's OK) but does your W still resist your affection to a degree? It's difficult when one spouse needs affection while the other appears uncomfortable. <P>I wish you every happiness! Thanks for always being there!

Hi, just checking in again. Things are going great at work. Still feel I am in a dream world! But the work is piling up and I love that--today I had the afternoon off so 11 and I went to Chapters--I looked at an Oprah magazine and for Sept's calendar it suggested choose a challenging but doable goal--I thought I already have that! A golf tournament to equip volunteers for, an orientation and training two-night workshop and a special picnic plus the regular challenges! I know there are personal goals to consider too but if I can handle it all without becoming a basket case, score! <P>I hope I didn't offend you by my question. Also, yeah, you WERE blunt with TCat! But I think I understand you now and appreciate your passion to make people aware life is too short not to recognize some things quickly and take action. I tried not to defend you but to help TC accept some of what you said. Hope it works. <P>This post is getting long!<P>Guess what? Today is 6 mos from D-day. I bought H a sweet love card. Have to do a chapel for seniors together tonight but maybe we'll enjoy a romantic coffee later. I miss our walks but these Canadian killer mosquitoes really BUG us!<P> <P>How's the workload? I sort of picture you--well a stack of paper in front of you and you trying to peer out and check up on all of us here! Hang in there!

Hi again. I just want to apologize if my last message seemed to come across wrong. It's been bugging me. I didn't mean to sound like you and I walk together--I kind of ran my thoughts about H into a paragraph about you. Sorry if that came out the wrong way.<P>You must be buried in that paperwork heap.<P>I haven't been able to write my story yet as it's been an incredibly busy week. Things are going pretty well. I have been fighting the strangest temptation, though. I don't understand why I would feel any need to be nice to OM but I know his b'day is pretty soon and kept thinking of e-ing a card. Then I get angry at myself-I want nothing to do with him and he's no friend of mine so why would i even entertain this thought? You know I will not give in but feel horrible that the thought would even tiptoe across my brain. <P>Anyway, going to grab a couple hours sleep since I didn't have much so far. It's so hot right now and today promises to be a scorcher which is fine if it weren't for the stupid mosquitoes!<P>I hope I haven't offended you in any way and please forgive me if so. <P>Blessings!

FS,<P>Are you LOOKING at my desk. Yes, it is heaped with stuff to do. I have been out of town most of the week and just got back late last night. Will be gone most of next week, then back a week and then gone 10 days. So, the work does pile up.<P>I am glad to hear work is going well. I see you are helping TCat. I will post to him when I have time to further think about his situation. I was harsh with him because he seemed to be more worried about his hurts than what he had done to his W over all those years. The comment about going back to OW did set me off a bit. Your calmer approach will no doubt prove to more beneficial to him.<P>One, thing to realize is that he probably doesn't need to hear from men. If you reread his posts there are elements of olgjmj in them. He is still in the fog to a degree as is Olgjmj. It really isn't a male/female thing. It really is about relationships and what people allow into their lives.<P>You know better than most from several standpoints. One, your training and experience as a minister, and then your own experiences in marriage. But, the irony is that no matter how we intellectualize things, we are all vulnerable and make mistakes. Then it is an issue of facing them and addressing them.<P>FS, I have a question to ask you. Has it crossed your mind, that your affair may well have saved your marriage? That there was a purpose for it and things you needed to learn and your H needed to learn? When I think about your situation, your H's medical issues, how you two were sort of drawing apart, and how the focus was on his health (very normal), I wonder about the why. About what you needed to learn and what your H needed to learn.<P>It was a very painful thing for the both of you, but on the 6 month anniversary, look back. Your H truely knows what it takes to forgive, he has been humbled in many ways and he is learning to address failings of his own, and his closest friend. Your family has been removed from it's coccoon (sp) and your D's are experiencing a different life. Something I think may well broaden them.<P>You have had to look deep in yourself and learn about your weaknesses, fears, and how you handle responsibility. You have had to face your H's mortality and the mortality of your marriage. You know what you want, you know better how to get it, and I suspect you have a much deeper appreciation of love and family. Finally, you know without a doubt that your H loves you dearly.<P>It just seems to me sitting here that your 6 month "anniversary" of d-day, is something you should celebrate, because it has brought you so much appreciation for your life and I would guess your H is in the same boat. When he becomes a minister again, he will be a stronger, wiser, and yet a more forgiving minister. His trials have allowed him to see many things he has taken for granted before. <P><B>You two are so lucky and blessed.</B> I do hope the both of you realize this. Remind your H of this as well. Surely there must of been a more painless way to accomplish all of this, but I don't know what it is.<P>God Bless,<P>JL<P><BR>PS: Oh almost forgot, in case you haven't noticed, I am not offended by your questions or posts. You are a good person FS and it comes through very clearly. I do hope that when OLGJMJ does come a little more out of the fog you will be able to help her. She is explaining that it was her H's heart attack that lead her to attach to OM. I know to some extent that your H's illness was sort of a trigger for you as well. You of all people may understand what she was thinking. <P>As for your question, yes my W is pretty adverse to affection. I don't think that will ever change.<P>As for the walk, I didn't know you walked up there this time of year, I thought you flew with the help of those giant mosquitos. <P>Have a good weekend.

The mosquitoes just dropped me off at the puter. They are upset with me as I played the great Canadian summer game--an excellent venting of evil and rage needing outlet---vacuuming the little suckers up! lol<P>It's rather a joyful pleasure (esp when I pretend they are my worries or people who bug me!)<P>Yes, I felt the 6 mos ann was something to celebrate and gave H a card about being my "forever love". I commented on how far we have come and I totally agree with your idea that the A actually was a wake-up call. If the marriage didn't dissolve because of the worsening family dynamics, it certainly would have disintegrated in time.<P>I think mid-life crisis is a factor. A few years before the A, H was diagnosed with some type of stomach ailment they feared was cancer (it likely was a warning re the thyroid but we lived in a hick town and the report came out fine as did the benign polyp!) H went to library and told me he had a 90% chance of death. I did not want an A but wondered who I could I find to marry to help me cope with ministry and my girls. How horrible. H says he realized things he had been doing wrong and that indeed his own mistress was the church--he was obsessed with having it spotless and it is a HUGE building and there were volunteers to clean areas of it. And his work. I had already realized this and kind of given up, wondering how on earth I could ever compete with H's work and workplace to provide a meaningful relationship. After all, I think I look a little more sexy and intellecual than a bucket of water with suds....giggle!<P>So, yes, we have recognized many things. I wish H was willing to still see Dr. John (M counselor) with me. He got to the heart of things and I know H needs to see him on his own--he even admitted it but too proud to go and too worried to spend $25 (I still marvel at this "steal" and his generousity to offer it) on himself while not too slow to go out for lunch and coffee daily. (In his defense, no one at work asks him to go for lunch with them so he often sits in the car, reads his Bible or newspaper and he does need a quiet spot as the office and driving forklift make him eager for solitude)<P>Thanks for encouraging me with TCat. It's so nice to feel I am actually being there for someone and it's a relief to me that maybe I am the one to help and not really in over my head after all.<P>I have left olgmjmj alone as I didn't get much response first time around but glad to know she is here and feel stronger. Her fog was startling but what a complicated situation, too. I will try again. <P>Well, sir, today's family plan is to visit the Railway Museum. So it will involve seeing trains on the plains while transported about by mosquito express....haha!<P>Oooo boy...my humour needs some help big time. I posted a joke in the thread about anyone can post...about two brooms that got married and the bride broom leans over to the groom broom to announce she is expecting a whisk broom soon--the groom broom replies, How can this be? We haven't even SWEPT together. hahahaha....groan<P>Hey, for some stress relief, you should watch this wonderful Disney movie if you haven't seen it. We found one copy in our video store up the street from us--The Balloon Gang starring Rip Torn, Mara Wilson and Laurie Metcalf. What a sweet simple story about hoping for improvements and beginning to act on faith to accomplish your dreams. Let me know if you see it. I want to own that movie!<P>Don't forget to breathe! And relax a bit. Thanks for being so good to me all the time. You too are a very good person and have helped so many here and in your work and free time. I'm sure your W appreciates you deeply. <P>Happy weekend!<P><BR>

FS,<P>I have a friend that started a software company. This software was directed toward other scientists. It went under because all of the scientists that would need this software thought they could build themselves. And they could have if they had the time.<P>I am reminded that a Doc that treats himself has a fool for a patient.<P>I suspect that a minister who has spent a significant amount of time counseling other people, doesn't feel the need for counseling themselves. <P>I do hope that someday he sees the wisdom, of "talking shop" with a counselor. Given all that he has faced, it would probably do him good to compare notes about his prayers, his faith, and his worries. <P>Must go, I will be gone most of next week (more travel), so I hope you have a good week. <P>God Bless,<P>JL<P>PS: Olgjmj has gone on a retreat for a week. But there is nothing you can do for her until she comes out of the fog abit and decides she really wants to work on the marriage. However, if her posts are to believed, her fear of being alone is a big motivator toward her not letting the affair go. If she wants help, I would bet you could be a big help to her.<BR>

JL, safe travels and wishes for lots of research accomplished so you can be seen at your desk! (There could be some benefits to the paper stack, though..hee hee) <P>Just a little humour to help you lessen the stress. I remember a trick someone played on our principal in college--he was a rather absent-minded fellow and someone stuck an old skeleton (kind of our mascot) behind his desk with a note, I am not the first dummy to sit behind this desk! <P>Had an awesome weekend. The railway museum was a hoot even despite myriad mosquitoes. Volunteered at my job today so I could know what some of my volunteers do. For the first time known to long time staff, a kid pulled the fire alarm. That was interesting. H prayed I would get to hold a baby (I LOVE holding babies) and I got to but the kid freaked out as he was having a horrid time adjusting to being away from his mommy. I won him over though and did get to make him smile and giggle. Some of the other (all boys today and 2 sets of twins but not identical!) boys also wanted cuddles. It felt so neat to love on kids who need it in a special way. What a wonderful job God has blessed me with!<P>Anyway, have a marvelous week. Keep reaching out to your W and may the help you have given so many of us here return to you a hundredfold in your M

Hey, JL. I see you were online Tuesday so just wondered if you are already back from your trip or just checking up on all of us? <P>Hope your week is going great!

Hi FS and JL, I'm being a big buttinski this week! I couldn't help but stick my head in this post... <P>Wait a minute, that didn't come out the way I wanted it to (butt...head) oops<P>Anyway, JL, I wanted to tell you that you have been my rock too. I have always been able to count on you for support on any issue. You help many people here, but for some reason I feel as if you have been like a guardian angel for me. Maybe it's that 'stray-dog-whining-in-the-rain" demeanor I have when I hit the end of my rope.<P>So, thanks for being a guiding force here.<P>I know so little about your situation. I'm not a pryer, but I am curious to know what motivates the caring advice you give. I've never seen you ASK for advice, just GIVE. How can anyone be such a giver? That is only one of many aspects of your personality that I have been working on developing in myself. (hard when you're more of a born taker :rolleyes <P>BTW - I meant to mention this to you sooner - you're a physicist, right? I got to take care of a man who had his PhD in theoretical nuclear physics. Smartest person I have ever know personally, and that's even AFTER his stroke! (you and K are up there too! you guys beat even the ER docs I've known) We had some interesting discussions (he couldn't talk anymore, but communicated with a sort of sign language) about metaphysical matters. Us nurses used to read articles out of Scientific American to him - we'd stumble over a word or two (those $50 ones) and he'd tell us the correct way to say it, never ridiculed us Anyway, thought you might appreciate how lucky I feel to have known him since you're in a similar profession. <P>Hope all is well with you and yours, see you around.<P>Thanks FS, hope you don't mind the intrusion, we all gotta share JL, lol I'll be looking for your posts too. <P>Khyra

Khyra, no problem at all! <P>I'm sure JL enjoys knowing he has a fan club--lol. He truly is a guardian angel, I believe. And he does seem to get around the board!<P>I know he'll answer whenever he ascends his work pile and has time to return here! There are many wonderful people here. I'm sure you are one of them, too, Khyra...what a pretty name! <P>Have a beautiful day!

Well, Khyra and FS,<P>You two have me blushing (cannot find the blush icon anywhere). Thank you for the compliment. As for being an Angel (actually I am more of an Angle ), I am sure that isn't true. But as you can tell, us scientists do have a twisted sense of humor. Have you heard K when he gets going?<P>Khyra, your patient's area of expertise and mine are very close. But don't be so sure we are so smart, we are just persistent. I have been dabbling in science since I was 10 years old, and worrying about the things I don't understand for a long time. So what you are seeing is the product of practice and focus. <P><BR>As for my story, FS, asked that a few weeks ago. I found it then, and bookmarked it for her. Perhaps she can show you were to find it if you are interested. I am afraid it is pretty boring and surely shows that you ladies have much to teach me. Believe me I have learned an enormous amount since I started reading here and then finally posting.<P>You know that the both of you are what bring me and people like K here. You guys are special people who have faced some very very troubling times and succeeded. I suspect that it will be years before you come to appreciate how special you are as well others here (SKM, Lostva, Chris, FaithHopeandLove, DesertRose, on and on). <P><B>But your H's know. </B> That is the important part.<P>It is my wish that you guys (girls really) realize how much strength is within you. I know you realize it some, because in my mind strength and compassion go hand in hand. You two have plenty of that.<P>Well, must go (Yes, FS still traveling, just sitting in motel room checking MB).<P>God Bless,<P>JL