Ok well, I decided a good thing to do would be to put this down in writing. That's about all I can do at this point. If anyone actually wants to read it, any feedback at all would be fine, I mostly just need to be heard. I know this is not a marital issue, but it does affect the flow of energy under this roof of ours. And H has had it, he is more of a 'fixer' than a listener.<P>A year ago, my baby boy was born. I had asked my mother to be there for me during the delivery. She hesitantly agreed. What the hell her problem was, I don't know. Silly me, I would have thought that wild horses couldn;t have kept her away.<P>But she was engrossed in an affair of her own. In fact, days after I left the hospital with our son, she had left her H for this OM. I understand why she needed to leave and I backed her up 100% on needing to get away from her H (he is a coke addict, abusive, etc) But I could not support her in her choice to have an affair as a way out. But, alas, as always she wanted a man to support her, and her OM is well-off. <P>At first when she left, she called me and lied and said that she was staying at a women's shelter and my younger brothers were with her. She had my grandfather believing it too. He just passed away over Easter - had a fatal hearattack while driving - very sudden and unexpected. But we all knew he had heart problems. She didn;t care if it upset her father, so long as she saved face.<P>Mom and I wound up arguing after the Lie Call. She had wanted to bring OM and his mother to my house (I was a week postpartum, mind you). I said NO just you and my brothers, I'm not ready yet to recieve any company besides you guys. I told her I really did want to see her and really wanted her and the boys to see the baby. But she got mad about me not wanting anyone else over my house, and picked a huge fight, became verbally abusive with me. At the time of the call I was actively breastfeading, and call me nuts but I think a mommy needs to be calm while feeding or expressing milk. So between that, her rudeness and the Lie Call, I told her to call me back when she got her head on straight and hung up the phone. (These cordless phones really take the pleasure out of slamming down a reciever, ya know.) <P>She called back within minutes, my H answered the phone and told her right now was not a good time. She was rude with him too. He handed the phone to me and I hung up.<P>Now, because of this, she did not speak, call write visit or make any contact with me OR my son for 6 months. He could have died, or gotten really sick, she wouldn't have known. Thank God he's healthy as a horse and too little to understand what's going on.<P>Anyway, we moved two hours away in Jan 01. I made sure she had the new address and all, even though she never answered my letters or my messages to her ex H to call me or her emails. <P>Out of the blue she emails me. Xmas had gone by, wehad moved etc, now all the sudden she wants to talk about Avon and the problems she's having at work and the problems she's having with this OM idiot. I emailed her back and gave her a peice of my mind but held back for fear of never heariong from her again. Sometimes I'd get so mad I'd just say exactly what was on my mind, and not even care. Eventually things calmed down between us. But she had barely acknowledged what she did to me, her abandonemnt. She did not wantr to deal with it.<P>Easter comes and the death of my Grandfather. My H and I stay with her for a few days sicne we live so far away now and we want to be there for all the services and viewings etc. We support each other, walk up to the casket together - I have my arm around her as she places a ST. Jude card in his left hand and a ST. Jude medal in his left. I was the one to call her and tell her abiut his death, too - to hear her scream, cry drop the phone. I thought we had begun to heal.<P>June comes. She has an extra Kennywood ticket and wants me to come with Andy. (H is away with his guard unit) I ask her if I can stay for a few days sicne I am lonely and miss her and my brothers. She avoids the question then deicdes it's ok. I should have never gone.<P>At Kennywood (big amusement park - like six flags but smaller) she takes off with her boyfriend (OM) and keaves me alone with the baby. My brothers who are teenagers are off riding rides and girl hunting. She starts playing control games - she said she would take the baby so I could spend some time riding with my brothers (Kennywood is my favorite place on earth) but she hemms and hawws around long enough so that we only have an hour or two left, etc etc. <P>I get home with my brothers later. She complains (good naturedly enough) about Andy being a handful. The next day she comes right out and says that she feels put out and responsible for my son because I did not bring a play pen for her to stick him in. Never mind that she could have easily put a few things out of reach. (in fact I had alerady done that for his saftely - I put a bowl of potpourri and some glass items up on the diningroom table - she came home from work and put them all back.) <P>I didn't say a word at first. I felt my mind just snap at that point. I thought, That B itch, she's lucky we are here. She didn't even want to spend any time alone wiht me talking like we always do. I begun packing my things, quietly. She wanted to know why I was going, I tried to be casual about it but ohhh man I was boiling over inside. She started in with her 'button pushing' passive aggressive bull crap. I was almost crying by the time I was ready to go out the door. <P>I finally confronted her face to face about her abandoning us, asking her why - you know what she did? Laughed in my face, twirled around in circles, and tried to grab Andy off of me, kissing him etc, He was getting uspet. One brother was in the other room, stewing, the other brother was standing there, shifting from foot to foot wating for the fur to fly. I told her that she is a weak person to not be able to own up to what she did. I also told her to thank herself because now she was minus a daughter and a grandson. I also told her that all I wanted from her was for her to LOVE me! She just stood and laughed at me. <P>I got in the truck (leaving hal my stuff behind me) and as I pulled away, she stood on the lawn, jumping up and down, blowing kisses, laughing. F*cking B*tch. Oh, don;t get me wrong, I got my fair share of comments in, but I was really trying to be productive not hurtful! <P>And the saddest part was that my brothers and I werehaving such a great time together! I took them out for sushi, shopping at the mall, we were going to have a Mike Meyers Movie-thon, we had popcorn popping already, and they were bonding wiht their nephew at long last. Andy loved their company, he loved them, it was so nice....<P>So, the Karma Police came and arrested me. This is what I get. This - right here - is my just desserts for having the affairs and having the luck of being forgiven. This is what the F8ck I get.<P>Another thing she said to me was something about talking to her shrink about all this that has happened between us. {I go - yeah, your slanted, twisted view with major parts of it left out, right??!} I didn;t let her finish, i was out the door at tha point. But it makes me wonder if this stupid shrink isn;t feeding her some line of crap to keep her happy and coming into him, or feeding her all this empowering advice while not knowing the real story. I have honestly thought about calling this DR up and telling him the REAL story, not Margaret's reinvented and edited for TV remake of what happened to cast her in a favorable light.<P>So here goes my birthday and my sons (we are born on the same day) no card, no nothing. My brother sends me this BS email that I can tell shes standing behind him feeding him. He is easily controlled and Im sure she's using him to hurt me.<P>What I want to know is... what exactly does she tell people who ask about her grand son? What does she tell her OM (who is a namby-pamby pantywaist of a guy who stands around crakcing stupid jokes all the time) WHat does she think about when she's alone with herself her lies and the truth? Did she even think of me or Andy this past bday wehad?? Does she care if he lives or dies????????<P>I have decided to write her a letter. It will say <P>"WHy don't you love us?"<P>and that's all I wont even sign it. <P>She had driven everyone away from her. No one can stand to be married to her, my brothers cant wait to get out of that house wiht her, her own brothers wont speak to her anymore because of the crap she pulled after their Dad died. She took away my childhood and I feel like im 16 again, helpless, hopless trapped and waiting for her to come arond and care again.<P>I give up. I don;t know what to do. I told my brothers in an AM that I never want to see her again, even if she gets cancer again. I was so angry when I was writing that. I don't know if thats true or not. I miss her, but I am missing the person who I thought she was, not the person she is.<P>I also give up on this post making any kind of snese to anyone. Manybe someone can read thru the typos and the words and find the real meaning. Please sont tell me to pray I already did that and Im not into that sort of thing Im sorry. Im just lost. I cant understadn why she doenst care about my Andy. He is so sweet, so perfect and so innocent and pure, WHY does she have to not like him??? WHY I feel lke she's rejecting me twofold when she rejects him. <P>I am bitter, resentful, and I need someone to understand and care. My H is fed up - he never was able to tolerate me talking much about her, becasue I waver on my decisions not to talk to her anymore etc. <P>read. help. <P>

{{{{{Khyra}}}}}<P>I'm sorry, but I'm Wally. You know my parents, the Cleavers. The Beav is my little brother...<P>I've never had to deal with family issues like that first hand. My wife and her father have "issues" that get them estranged for months at a time, and I'm singularly unsuccessful at ever solving them (or providing her with the support she needs). <P>So, with that background, I'd just write your Mom off, at least for a while. You don't need the aggrevation. That's my <I>guy</I> answer. I hope one of the ladies comes by with a better one (I'll take notes, too).

I care, Khyra. I also understand {which seems to be my mantra lately}. God, what DON'T I understand? Too much pain we've lived through, wouldn't you agree?<P>I like your letter. However, it probably will do nothing more than make you feel better. <P>My mom-history is weird, even by Sheryl-standards. My natural father died when I was two months old, and my mother admits she didn't want me, basically dropped me off at her parents for two years, and then remarried (the best man on earth, thank God) when I was two years old. She told me about my natural father, but lied about how he died, didn't even save a picture, and I knew she hated me because I reminded her of him.<P>I never expected much after, during my fifteenth year, she said she wished she'd given me up for adoption when my natural father died. <P>So, when I had kids, I expected nothing, and I was not disappointed. Maybe that's where you need to go... it saved me... expect nothing, and everything you DO get is a gift.<P>Here's what changed my mom. She got cancer. Isn't that terrible? She was seperated from my dad (that great guy who was a marshmellow my entire life -- I adored him, Mom called him weak). She was going for her Master's degree, and pretty much wrote off even my beloved (golden child) younger sister and her babies.<P>Then -- BAM. <P>She changed, and I mean completely.<P>My dad suddenly seemed nicer, not so weak, and he stood by here as she healed, as I would have expected him to... and she apologized to me for the pain she'd caused... she did try to reach out to my children, but let's face it, teens know the score, and they are kind, but not close to her at all. She began a Ph.D. program for depth psychology (she's a psychotherapist now) and had to do some heavy-duty counseling herself... it has been an amazing transformation. <BR>It has been six years since the cancer diagnosis and surgery. We are closer than we've EVER been in my life, and I am an old lady, remember? <P>So, my advice is to send the letter with the one line on it, see what happens... but EXPECT nothing.<P>Unfortunately, I suspect that something BIG will have to happen, kinda like the "rock bottom" aspect of 12-step programs, before she realizes where she's taken her life thus far.<P>I wish you peace, dear Khyra.<P>Hugs, Sheryl

khrya,<P>I may be K's brother. But, I have been around for awhile and I will tell you something that has carried me through my life relatively strife free. Just remember the following thing:<P><B>Noone leads their life like you would lead for them. </B> This is particularly true of relatives.<P>With that thought in mind, I would like to make a few observations. The first is that you miss having a Mother, or even parents at all. Anyone, who has lost their parents, I and my W have, feels this tremendous sense of loss, that when things get tough who do you turn to. Further, I think the greatest thing I miss and my W misses, is that they will never get to see their Grand children and how they turned out. <P>It is one of the true saddnesses of my life.<P>You want your mother to see Andy and be proud of him. You want her to see how good a Mother you are to Andy. How you have grown and learned and become a Woman to be proud of.<P>Want to bet what you Mother sees? She sees her failures. Pure and simple she sees how she failed you and your brothers when she sees you, Andy, and your H. You have things she will never have Khyra and she is jealous.<P>Sadly, there is nothing you can do. You cannot run her life. BUT, you don't have to take her insults, her pettiness, and her meanness. You can however get revenge Khyra. Your revenge: Lead a good life, be a good mother, love Andy's father, and enjoy your life. The best revenge is a life well lived. Khyra, you cannot live your Mother's for her.<P>So don't send the letter, don't call her, but do forgive her. She cannot undo what she has done, she cannot change who she is, and she doesn't want to change. <P>Khyra, you will live without your Mother, but there are people who like you, respect you, and a few that love you. Andy and your H being at the top of the list. Your brothers are also probably on the list. When you can, help them because they are going to come out of this situation messed up. Don't enable them, but do try to provide guidance as they get their life straight. THey may not want to. You cannot change that either.<P>I don't recall if you are religious or not, but if you are use this religion to help you fill the void left. But, mostly realize that you are a woman now with a family and while they draw strength from you, you can and should draw strength from them.<P>I wish I could offer you some great advice to somehow make your Mother see what she is losing, but I know of none. I cannot change her either. <P>So hang in, and lead the good life Khyra, that is really all you can do.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

K - just to know that you care, that you don't think I'm ridiculous for being so sad and feeling rejected helps. You are right - I have no choice but to write her off anyhow. Thank you for your kind words and your support. <P>Sheryl: So your mom has put you through the ringer too. It feels terrible to not feel wanted. I have gone thru this kind of thing w/ my mom too, even before all this crap. During those tender, tough preteen years, I had some behavior problems - always very angry, dabbling in all sorts of stuff I didn't need to be into (drugs, satanism, sex way before I could ever understand the implications of it all) I was a bad kid but I wasn't THAT bad - I see worse all the time. My mom was ready to leave me behind at a facility she had put me in and go to Florida and I'd never see her again. <P>Xmas of 99, she too developed cancer. She underwent a mastectomy and chemo. It was very rough on her, she had an extremely hard time dealing with it. She lashed out at the nurses and doctors, her H at the time. I was pregnant and unable to help her as much as I wanted to, but I was there for her when I could be, I bought her books to help her learn about the cancer, how to deal with the cancer. We were all so scared. Fortunately she is now cancer free, but I wonder if her hormones are out of whack or the chemo did something to her mind... <P>I am happy to hear of the drastic transformation your mother made - she had it in her all alnog, just didn't know how to tap it. How I wish mine would do the same, with or without the Phd <P><BR>JL: You said it all about me wanting her to see me grown and good with my son, to love us etc. I too think she is jealous, she has always seemed that way. She couldn't have been more bland even when I told her I was getting married, or when I graduated (she never graduated) I wish she could be happy for me, get tears inher eyes like all other moms do. <P>The scary part is that remember how I said how I am finding out more about who and how I am? I don't like it because I see more and more of her in me. I used to look up to her and want to be like her (except the multimarriage thing) in many ways. Now I shudder when I see it - if it were an arm I would hack it off with an axe. But I know I can't do that. So, I just try to grab hold of it and change it. But it's not easy when it's the only way you know how to act. I almost feel like i just want someone to show me what is normal all the time because I can't seem to figure it out on my own, smart as I am about other stuff. - Hey, have a heart attack or an overdose in front of me, you're fine. Marry me and your one poor Son of a B*tch. <P>Ok, well I know I'm spewing a lot of negativity here, but once again it just feels good to get it out. And I know that somehow it must be part of why I had the affairs. I will do anything to prevent that from happening again, and don't expect or want a drop of sympathy for that.<P>I also hate to think I'm sounding like one of those typical Gen-X "my life is horrible because my parents made me that way, whhaaaahhh." Yuck. I know when I screw up it's my own fault and it's up to me to find better role models and figure stuff out on my own. People have had Far far worse lives out there and have done far more good than me. I just think of that book "A Child Called 'it'" and know I'm actually doing alright. I don't spend all of my time in the Official Pit of Misery and Despair, other people want to use it and are kicking me out. <P><BR>I'm still undecided about the letter. Maybe I'm just better off without her in my life, as cruel and cold as that sounds. <P>...sigh... thanks again for your eyeballs and hearts, guys, it means more than I could ever say.

Khrya,<P>You are not condemned to be like your mother. She was just your FIRST role model. She doesn't have to be your last role model. This is something that many people forget.<P>It is sad that you mother will miss so much, but in line with "not leading her life for her", there is something you don't understand. If she felt like you do about motherhood, life, your H, she would miss what she doesn't have. But, she isn't going to miss seeing Andy grow or you mature into a beautiful woman as you age.<P>It is not important to her. It never was. <P>That is not to say that you aren't important to her, she just doesn't know how to deal with needing you and what you represent, and the demons within her. Her own weaknesses.<P>So Khyra, there are many things I could wish for you, but most of them you have already. But, it is my wish that your life comes to bring you satisfaction with the good things in it (H, children, friends) and the ability to realize that the rest you cannot affect or change.<P>Khyra, you are a good woman and you have become a good W. I think you will become even better as a W and Mother as time goes one. Your H is a very lucky man, and he knows it or he wouldn't have endured what he did. <P>He knew he had a good one in you. So focus on what you do have and spend less time on what you don't. Your Mother is your mother. You love her, but you don't have to like her.<P>Hang in there.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

JL,<P>The hurt that is caused by realizing that she just does not care is the hardest part to get over. But, as you said I cannot live her ife for her, no matter how desparately I have tried in the past. In fact, that is when I felt her beginning to really let go of me - when I stopped living every day of my life and doing every thing I did for her. The day the Army recruiter sat in our living room and started talking about me being gone for certain lenghts of time for traning etc, that's when the final rift began. How dare I live my life? How dare I get an education?<P>I remember her going to speak to a recruiter when I was very young - he showed up films, talked to her for a long time. It was her choice NOT to go. Personally I don't think she could have endured the discipline aspects of it. And everything that's happened to her has been her choice, no matter how hard I tried, even as a child, to help her stay away from sadness and grievious situations. <P>You keep hitting on some important points, things I should realize on my own. Things I just don't want to tell myself. It is the most invaluable thing to me to have someone tell me the things that are true that I block out and don't want to hear. It's not always a safe thing to do (just ask my H!) but my life eventually becomes better for it. <P>As the Gumbies on Monty Python say "MY BRAIN HURTS!" I'm tired of trying to figure her out, because I know enough already, and I spend way too much time in the past and take people here away from other more pertinent (sp!) posts.<P>JL your insight and caring continue to be a boon, a source of sanity to me (and thereby my H as well.) Thank you from the bottom of my heart.<P>Khyra<p>[This message has been edited by Khyra (edited August 15, 2001).]

Your story sounds alittle familar to mine. I am the WS, my A was 4yrs ago and my H found out 6weeks ago.<P>Anyways, My father has never been there for me. I remember crying in highschool one time cause he was supposedly to busy to come to my choir concert. Both of my children were pre-term labor and did he stop by. He called, but he only lived 10 min. away. My mother (who had no driver's licences due to a D.U.I,) made it to the hospital for both of my kids births several times while I was in the hospital.<BR>I do send my father a Christmas card every year w/ family pictures in them. It is his loss that he dosen't choose to particapate in mine or my children's lives. By sending him a card every year I keep the door open if he decides to change, and I feel guilt-free because he has the ball in his court.<P>I can't tell you what to do, but this is how I deal with the cards I've been dealt.<BR>I must say that since I've been going to church, Life is a lot easier to deal with. Knowing that God is always here for you and ready to help you with any obsticole. So maybe you should try a non-denominational church or not.<P>Remeber that we are here for you if you want to vent, or advice or just want to chat.My H (SEM) and I post and reply toghther. Goodluck! Sherry

Thanks, KS, for the encouragement. It is amazing how parents can just walk away with no good reason.... It hurts, makes you wonder what's wrong or not good enough about you.<P>I'm the same Khyra who answered your post on In Recovery. Looks as if whether we like it or not, we have a lot in common lol Thanks for reaching out to me, even when your own spirit is low, that means a lot. See you around, I hope<P>Khyra