Ook..Here goes. Just received a call from WW ...I ihave allowed the youngest to go visit at OM's house, which under the Cs agreement I do not have to do. In fact, at CS hearing it was agreed that if the kids were to visit there, they kid stay at my wifes Moms. Recently, she seemed to take more interest in her boys. So, I agreed to let them stay at OM's house. Now, she is calling in the phone and letting OM speak to the yooungest one about some plans for the upcoming next visit. This is a little unnerving to me as I do not want to put the kids in the middle of all of this.

But, the fact remains (and she was drinking tonite.again) that this seems a little wierd to me.

Am I off base here by thinking this or should I let it ride? This OM is a fairly big drinker too.

Any thoughts?

Gregg, you are entitled to change your mind. It's a basic human right. Clearly this change of mind is not based on a silly whim; in your place I would be leery of allowing the kids to be in the OM's house.
I would contact her, tell her you've thought it over and you are returning to the original CS agreement.
She was drinking, the OM was drinking, their judgment was a little bit impaired. No inhibitions about making a phone call to talk to the little guy, no restraint about having a conversation with the child about future plans with the OM and there you are, right there in the room, like this is normal.
And you perceived that your w was taking more interest in the boys. That made you relent on allowing them to go to the OM's house? Not a good idea.
Yes, you want to support your wife having a relationship with the kids. That doesn't mean you have to support them being around the OM if you have a document stating that they stay at wife's Mom's house when she visits OM.

She loves them?` She can visit at her Mom's house, play with them, love them up, tell them stories, all that good Mom stuff. If she really wants to mother them, that should be fine. It's not your duty to make her life easier to sleaze by with her OM.
Simply put, I would convey to w that you rethought things about visitation, and you wish to go back to the original arrangement. And maybe this will help:
If she accuses you of being inconsistent, of trying to make things difficult, of not being able to "make up your mind" it is okay to say

I was wrong. I made a mistake. I'm sorry that you are upset by this, I agree, it's totally my fault, and again, I thought it over and I don't want to change things from the way they are set out in the agreement.

By admitting you are in the wrong (as far as changing your mind, that is) and saying you are sorry (about inconveniencing her and disappointing her, that is) you let her feel that she has won the argument.

If she feels she wins an argument, that's good. She might be less inclined to argue over the visiting arrangements if you both agree that Gregg is a 3#&%^@.
(I once got stopped for driving thrugh a stopsign on a dark street. The sign was hidden by foliage, adn there was no traffic - except for a cop car I never saw. He pulled me over and read me the riot act - how I didn't stop, how I was reckless, how i could have hit him, etc. I didn't argue. We HADN'T been anywhere close to each other; I would not have hit his car, and the stop sign was completely covered up. But so what?

I just listened, then told him "You're right." and i shut up. He had won the argument because I didn't argue. He stood speechless, and a little disappointed, all the wind out of his sails. I kept still. He then took out a small pad, and wrote down my license info, and said "I'm going to give you a warning this time." I thanked him. He won and i won.

Let your wife win, if she cusses you out. Let your kids win, by keeping them sheltered from the OM. You are their protection. what you have to do as a good Dad, is keep your children protected and safe and un-confused. That's your job.

Gregg I second Bellevue's comments. This is not a matter of clashing egos but of making sure your children are safe when they are visiting their mother. For their safety, please reconsider enforcing the original CS agreement.

Belle,TMCM

Thanks for the input.I see thru their little charade. I am going to enforce the original agreement. I know that she is using Patrick (the youngest one as a wedge). I am not waffeling here. But, it is clear that the OM knows that she misses Patrick desparately. And, in order to try to make her happy OM wil accomodate her as long as I agree to let him come down.

OM also knows that this will help keep wife from our house. And, she of course is foolish enough to go with it.It's amazing what alcohol does to cloud peoples judgement.

Can you say "Lets play house"?

Other things have happened that have led me to this conclusion. She traded a car I bought her(titled in her name) traded it for a Ford Ranger pick-up truck and put it in his name only.

And, she cashed a $ 5,000.00 IRA to help pay some bills for materials for this home improvement business he has. I asked her why the jobs and customers were not paying and she said "They don't always pay them. I said "Thats not your problem".

She is in my opinion being used. And, by extension
nnow this a**hole is trying to use my son as well.
For his own purposes.

I am enforcing the agreement, although it is going to hurt Patrick, and now I have to explain to him why . He does not understand.

I had enforced this for the better part of 10 months, and all she did was ignore the kids for the most part.

Take some time to think of how you will explain this to Patrick, how to put it so that his young mind will understand. It is so sad when the innocents must suffer for the sins of their unfaithful parents, and the fallout covers them. And you Gregg, as the betrayed spouse and faithful parent, as the one "doing the right thing," will be painted as a *#%@.

That doesn't matter. When you stand up for what's right, a lot of shmutz will come your way, thrown by the ones who are afraid to stand up for what is right. Or thrown by those unwilling to be inconvenienced; willing to "go along to get along."

If you know any cops, (there's one on the site named rookie) you know that in broken homes, when a child is abused and neglected, there is often a non-parent living with the parent and the child has suffered at the hands of the live-in boyfriend/girlfriend. Add alcohol to the mix, makes it worse.

Post here, you know we will support you.

Belle:

Thanks. I have taken some time to think abouot what I need to say to him. Fortunately, he is bright and has an innate sense of right and wrong.
So my plan is to appeal to his sense of fairness.

He wants to get along with everyone (naturally) and believes that there is no injustice in the world that cannot be fixed. And all he wants is to have a "whole" family. He is such a "family" boy. I am so proud of him.

I suppose I will put it into terms he will understand and re-inforce the message that his Mom will see him, it will have to be here. She will never get her Mom to agree to letting them stay at her Mom's house.(Her Mom by the way pulled this same act 32 years ago with her Father.
Although I understand that her Father at that time was a womanizer and big time drinker). Maybe that is why my wife has the issues she has now.

In any case, my wife lack of clarity on this or virtually any other issue is directly the result of alcohol and some sort of emotional destabilization.

Foe me it doesn't even qualify as LB anymore, thats how far down the road I am with her. I am just trying to keep some respectability and dignity in the whole god-awful sh*%$$#ty mess.

But, you are right, I will be called everything but a human being.

So be it.

I've been called worse by better people.

I'll keep you posted.

Gregg, you got to be the adult here. If it helps, I stand with you. Tell your WW to call me names, too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Heck, use Bellvue's and TMCM's, to boot! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

It is such a no brainer. What kind of parent would you be if you let your son be watched by a drinking babysitter? And what if your WW or OM are drinking and they decide to take your son out for a drive? Or he becomes sick or injured while they're in their stupor?

No, you had good intentions, but a visitation, with them would be asking for disaster.

Gregg, your WW and the OM...she's being used, but she's using him as well. Surprise! it's not a healthy relationship.

But just as the OM's business isn't her problem...your WW is no longer your problem, either. She needs to parent herself. But maybe she needs to hit rock bottom and lose everything before that can happen.

It seems like you've given her alot and it's made no difference. So now the most loving thing you can do is to let it happen so that she might learn from adversity...and keep yourself and your sons safe while it happens.

Yes, I agree totally with all of you. I have done exactly that for the best part of ten months. I let my parental defenses down. She talked nicely initially (the weekend visit) all in the hopes of getting what she wanted. And I agreed to it.

I should have known better that alcoholics are master manipulators. And, she deserves an academy award. Really. She is that good.

If you had heard the drunken phone calls I got from OM on my cell threatening my wife well(she was here visiting the boys)..I guess that should have been my first clue. Ok.
It's time for the 2x4.

Believe me...he won't be down there again. Fortunately, I covered my bases in the Child custody agreement. I do not have to let them stay at OM house and her Mother will never agree to let them stay at her house...

So, her choice is to come here. Period. End of story.

I had initially not allowed them to go othere for all the reasons all of you have mentioned. I lapsed. It will not happen again.

I feel so much better. And I am so grateful to all of you for your advice. .

Gregg M. remember that as long as we are here you are never alone.

Thanks TMCM.Bellevue.Leilana.

By the way, I meant to ask you. Are you a coffee afficienado?

I ask...because I love coffee as well. I use 100% Columbian whole beans distributed by Eight O' Clock. (A&P). It is the best brand I have found at any price. It is $8.69 (here) for a 36 oz. bag. If you have acees to this where you live, you may want to try it. Big,rich and smooth taste .