Hi all- I’d appreciate some input from you all, esp. the Mbers form my time on this board—FC, TMCman, WIFTT, Peachy, Anna2000, DJ6…can’t remember you all
The question is ..how do you feel about the ex (WS) inviting herself along to your annual traditional family gathering?
I spoke with her recently, and she mentioned that she ran into my BIL’s cousin, and they discussed if she would be at the 26th Dec (Boxing Day here in S.A), party.
She promptly replied that she WOULD. She mentioned it to me, and did not even as much as ask if she could come, she just told me, that she would be there. She just said- BIL and sister would not have a problem with it, and she would just come.
Now, there are a number of things to consider here-
my ex does not have any family left- her parents both died while we were married, her half-sister lives abroad, she has little in common with her other half-sister, and none with her step-sisters, one of whom lives abroad. My family have always made her feel welcome, even during our topsy turvy last years, when she was in the middle of an A, at the same time of year. My family are really genuine, and do not display any hostility at all toward her- taking their cue from me. I may have no problem with her coming along as well, except that occasions such as those get me all sentimental and connected again, and I don’t know if this is good for me. I feel for her, I just don’t know if I shouldn’t just break all ties. Should I really consider her feelings when she has trampled on mine, or just let bygones be bygones??

Let me know what you think
muzohead

Since you have children, I'd say do it for the kids. You sound like you can handle yourself in these situations, and your family continues to treat her as family. It seems that you've made up your mind, but just want confirmation on it.

Muz,

I too think you answered your own question. You are a person who is always going to care about others feelings, even those who step on yours. Don't let her change you into a person you are not.

She's still selfish, it shows in the fact that she told you, "I'm coming." She still doesn't care about your feelings, only hers. That's sad.

Let me ask you this. Would you feel happy or sad at the family dinner if you told her not to come? I have a feeling that if you told her not to come, the entire dinner, even though you shouldn't, you'd feel guilty and wonder if she is alone and sad.

Take care,

ANNA

I think she was inconsiderate and selfish in inviting herself.

However, if you can handle it, I think it's fine. If you can't handle it, that's tougher. I don't know whether you should tell her she is not invited or whether the relatives who first discussed it with her should have the duty.

I also think they were not considerate of you in extending the invitation.

I have many occaisions to see my x but I would not want to see him at one of my family's get-togethers.

More power to you, my friend.

I think she was inconsiderate and selfish in inviting herself.

However, if you can handle it, I think it's fine. If you can't handle it, that's tougher. I don't know whether you should tell her she is not invited or whether the relatives who first discussed it with her should have the duty.

I also think they were not considerate of you in extending the invitation.

I have many occaisions to see my x but I would not want to see him at one of my family's get-togethers.

More power to you, my friend.

Muzo...

I think that the most important thing to think about at this moment is how you feel about it. I understand that you might feel that she is alone and that without you and your family, she has nothing. But to bring her into your life in such a way might be more hurtful for you than asking her to not come. I agree that she is presumptuous in the least and uncaring at worst. The fact that she knows her and your history and yet has chosen to show you such little consideration also shows me that she is not a person who is really ready to be able to interact appropriately with you and your family. Her self invitation or lack of consideration for YOU and your family shows that she is still only thinking about herself.

I think that you should carefully think about how you are going to be feeling during this occasion. I hear your trepidation about being around her, and frankly for me, that is enough to keep me from interacting with my ex. Perhaps, I just need to grow, perhaps I am not completely healed... very likely, but regardless, I know my limits in my current state, and it is all I can do to be around her when I pick up and drop off my children. Being around my ex for any extended amount of time would be much worse for me, and I choose to avoid causing myself pain which would in turn only hurt my limited relationship with her further.

People think about "the kids" but sometimes forget that the health and well being of the parents are a part of 'good for the kids' as well. Her choice was to leave your family. She did it knowing the situation she was putting herself in, so it isn't like she lost everyone after her choices were made. She knew she was alone, and chose to alleviate that with others rather than your family. Now to cause you discomfort to assuage her own lonliness is something that I think is NOT good. And in truth, I don't think that asking her to not come would at all be anything other than appropriate, given how you seem to be feeling about being around her.

I know that I differ in how others have viewed your situation, but I hear how you are feeling about being around her. I am not worried that she invited herself, but I am worried about how you are worried about being around her for that time. Perhaps you might feel a little guilty... I don't think you should... but you won't be feeling angry, hateful, distrustful, etc. having her running around with your family acting as though she wanted to be a part of that family. I don't think you have to be hateful... and in fact should not be regardless. However, be sure that you are not being 'guilted' into allowing her to join in, because of her choice. Besides, how do you think your entire family will feel trying to be 'nice' to her knowing that she hurt you so much. Knowing that right in front of you, she is getting things as a 'wife' even given her choices to stop being that person.

Perhaps you should discuss this with your family, out in the open. See what they think about it. They will be the ones who have to watch you walk around with her, feeling the tension that her presence might be causing. I doubt that they want either of you to feel bad, but I suspect, they care about you and your feelings more. Therefore, I think they deserve to be asked anyway.

Your sister or whomever, might be the best people to ask her to not come, should that be the case.

But regardless, I hope that you are able to make the decision for your children and you first... then take her needs into consideration. Not that putting others first is not a strong virtue, but neither is the anger and resentment that asking that person over might bring about.

Well you can go to the party and if you find yourself emotionally overwhelmed by her presence, simply take your leave and go home. Besides there is also the possibility that she may not show up at all.

I agree with TMCM...And of course, FC always has good ideas and I am with those as well..

I believe you should 1)go and not worry if she's there..you already have decent boundaries in place and if she acts bad or you are unable to feel comfortable at YOUR family's gathering, then 2)you should have another plan...that is, say as you are leaving that you have another engagement to attend..leave her wondering what's up with you.

Just go and keep your cool. It's your family. Odds are, she may feel out of place herself. And while she is probably still foggy and selfish, she may get the idea that she's not exactly the belle of the ball there ok? You are the one in control of you. Not her at all anymore. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thanks guys, for all your responses.
Newly
You're right, I had kinda made up my mind already when I posted, but I have a few reservations. The kids will enjoy having us both there, for sure. My family, we-e-ll, they are pretty much OK with whatever I decide on that score, since I've never painted my ex black in their eyes at all, and they've always made her feel more than welcome in their homes. I guess I'm the only undecided one here, perhaps considering for the 1st time my own feelings
Anna:
I know the ex quite well, and doubt that her motives are anything but missing the family, my parents, sister, close friends, and so on. She's never been good at asking, or apologising, and this is her way of asking me. You're right when you say I'd feel guilty if she's not there cos of me,..I guess this is why I'm asking you guys.
Cinderella
To be fair, it was my BIL's cousin who asked her.(They always got on very well). The cousin knows nothing much of what happened between us, my family is such that would never divulge the details of whatever they may be privy to. It comes down to me.
FC
Wow!Good to hear from you after such a long absence FC. Still lurking somewhat, I see. As always, you're bang on target with your observations again. Part of me is resentful of the fact that she gets to be everybody's darling again, after causing such grief in my life (and the kids'), as if all is well between us as well.(which it is not). Yes, for sure she is no longer my partner, but she is still the mother of my mother's grandchildren, and my nephew's cousins. There is that extended family connection.
I haven't ever broached the subject directly with my family, or sister, but as I said, they have no problem if I don't. It's just that I don't want to give anyone the impression that there is still a "thing" between the ex and myself, or any hope of a reconciliation or such. Maybe I worry too much about such things,I don't know..
TMC
Not an option, man. That is the day I spend with my family ALL day. Also, NO possibility she will not show up. It's all or nothing.
Peachy
LOL! She makes herself the belle of the ball wherever she goes. She's very charming and sociable, and my family are all warm & generous people (as I am ) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
I guess this is what bothers me..
She'll be her normal charming witty vivacious self, and everybody will wonder again what it is that I did to lose her <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> ..since noone knows the details.

muzohead

She'll be her normal charming witty vivacious self, and everybody will wonder again what it is that I did to lose her ..since noone knows the details.

sufdb....and therein lies your dilemma. Lies and secrets are such pesky things. But you have no one to blame but yourself, since you are the source of the secret. IMO if a family is to operate in a healthy fashion, there are rules that apply, just like there are in marriage. You are being dishonest to all your relatives (as well as injuring yourself) by not revealing the true nature of your relationship with your exw. You have removed their right to decide for themself how to conduct their relationship with this family member (you correctly identified your exw as extended family, she is indeed, and always will be, a member of your family once children are born). You (with your parents as co-conspirators) are manipulateing the rest of your family, IMO that is dead wrong, and creates circumstances such as you posting about today. I suspect if everyone knew the truth, you would be empowered to act as you want.. whatever that may be, instead of feeling you have to put on an act. She would experience the consequences of her actions, and have pressure to correct those things needing correcting in her.....you complain she has a free pass, and she does....cause you are still enabling her...when do you intend to stop?

One does not have to reveal all the gory details, radical honesty manifests differently depending on the relationship. In a family, I think it is important and healthy for the family relationships to explain why people are seperated of divorced. Something along the lines of we had marital problems which included (or resulted in...whichever applies) jane/jack developing an inappropriate relationship with another person. We tried to reconcille but were unable to do so, so we seperated/divorced. You will have to ask jane about anything further about her feelings...but for myself, I am still angry, sad, bitter, whatever, and am trying to cope so please be patient with me whild I recover my balance. In the meantime if you see a certain amount of stress or such between me and exspouse, now you understand why.... I don't want anyone to feel they have to choose sides, you decide for yourself how your relationship with this family member should be. Now if the exspouse is dangerous, say a druggie, alcohol abuser, sex addict, or have some serious sociopathic behaviour, you can and should pass on that information as dispassionately as possible, so people can protect themself... By doing these things, families can adjust, no one has to be married, a divorce does not have to mean decades of hostility or punishment...marriage is voluntary, if one (or both) parties don't want it, it ends, how it ends is really irrelevant...because the ending is about the entire marriage, and the people in it....not an affair or some other sympton. There is no need for punishment etc. it sounds like you and your parents are good people and live your lives honestly, so clue the rest of the family in...if someone treats her badly, that is between those two family members...ya know? If she is welcome at some gatherings and not others (depending on who is in charge) so be it...those pesky consequences. Everyone needs to be acting honestly, with full knowledge of the relevant truths, that is the only way people can be authentic and not controlling.

IMO divorce ends the marital expectations, all plan B's, revenge, animosity must cease, resolution has been achieved. One goes forward with the exspouses as extended family to each other, and in whatever capacity they allready are to other family members (arising out of children). As extended family to each other there relation will be as good or bad as they make it, much like that between siblings, parent/child, cousins whatever...they are kin, but that does not mean they have to like....or dislike...each other.... Your relationship with exw should be whatever you want it to be...certainly respectful and cordial at the very least, but friendly if that works too....you should not be passing judgement on her or her relationship with anyone else in the family....

As for this occassion, of course she belongs, it is a family gathering. So long as she behaves herself, but that applies to everyone, including you. Your cousin extended a um...acknowledgement she could come, and she jumped at it....you divorced each other because you could not live in the safe/healthy/nurturing intimacy marriage requires....she did not divorce her kids, or her extended family through those kids....and frankly her relationship with your family is actually none of your business...it is their and her business...ya know? So YOU act however you need to with your exw, but IMO you best serve your own emotional needs by not focusing on what your exw is doing, or where she is doing it...unless she directly messes with you (or spreads untruths I suppose, then you would have to respond, taking the high road though if you do). That you will experience feelings and/or discomfort around her is your own personal problem, you just have to deal with it....that may be by limiting your own interactions with her, but you cannot, or should not expect others to accomodate you. If (and this does not sound like the case) you are unable to cope with this kind of social occasion, then you would have to be the one not attending, cause the problem lies within you. No different than if you had a serious problem with a sibling, or cousin, or uncle and refused to be around them. The only exception I would make is if everything is so new, and so raw, the family needed to nurture you a bit, and respectfully inform your exw that it isn't time yet for her to return to the fold. But this is short-lived, and not a permanent strategy, it leads to power struggles and manipulation. Divorce is part of life, one must live with it.....likewise people often marry someone another family member can't tolerate, and tries to manipulate accordingly, that is just as wrong too.

It is all about behaviour muzo, if your exw (or yourself, or anyone else for that matter) behaves themself at family gathering, then I see no problem with it. If someone is banned, it should be because of how they behave, not cause they did not want to be married to someone.