Just Learning, Greengables, Rcvrng03 & Newly..... I read each of your replies. Thank you all for the insight. A few hours after I posted my topic, I got a call from my ex-H. We were chatting about our daughter and such. After several minutes of my ex telling me how his therapy is going and how much it is helping him, the conversation turned into a marriage proposal. He asked me to marry him again the weekend after next. I was floored! I told him it didn't make sense to get remarried if we will continue to live 100 miles away from each other. He explained that in the months after we remarry, we will see a marriage conunselor and he will work on moving down from WPB to Broward county, Fl. He also wants to keep this a secret, if you will, saying it's "nobodys business what we do with our lives" and that this would be a clear indication of his will and commitment toward me and our child. I explained that I think that hiding something like this is childish and a sign of fear of being disapproved. Is it me, or does this sound like guff to you? Thank you all!!
Mackies Mom

It sounds like he wants his family, but is afraid of his FOO. Keeping secrets isn't the way to start or restart a M.
I think a plan of action to recover from the past hurts is probably appropriate. This is difficult for any of us to establish, because we all failed in this area or we wouldn't be here. This is where a counselor comes into play. An objective third party who help set boundaries and reestablish trust.

Since you do live so far away, consider the Harley's phone counseling. Yes, it is expensive, but its far cheaper than another divorce.

Also, if there is a MB seminar, can you get XH to commit to working the MB program? AFter the seminars, there are follow up homework items. Does H even know about MB? Is he willing to work on the M, or does he want things as they were before.

You need to do some work yourself and ask yourself some difficult questions. Do you still love him? Can you trust him? Is there stillhope for your M? The questions sound easy, but you really need to look inside yourself for an answer.

Only you can decide if you want it to work, and what boundaries you need to establish for success.
Many of us wanted marital recovery when we joined MB, and believing in the program, I know I want to see successes. Some of us have decided that if there is emotional, substand or physical abuse, the MB principals don't work well. So ask yourself some of those questions too.

Good Luck.

He said "this would be a clear indication of his will and commitment toward me and our child"? Hasn't he got that backward? Isn't he really looking for you to make a clear commitment to him, before he invests any real effort into your relationship?

Does he really think he could keep the kind of arrangement he's proposing secret forever? I don't think so. I suspect that he doesn't have any confidence that this is going to work, and he wants to keep things secret long enough so that he can just slink away if he decides it's too much work to follow through on all the promises. It's a rather foolish strategy, because it would mean going through that whole messy divorce process all over again, but I'm guessing that he thinks it's an acceptable tradeoff for the leverage he would gain. He knows that if you're already married, you'll give him a lot more leeway in his behavior than if he has to prove himself first.

He may be sincere about wanting this to work, but I think he's hoping that you'll do most of the accommodating. In my opinion, that's not good enough. With his history, he needs to be eagerly looking for ways to prove himself.

Having been “secretly” engaged, I can tell you it means no commitment.

Do you really even need our opinions? Or do you just want us to validate you by saying “This man is nuts.”

I think this shows exactly how far he has to go. Let him show his commitment by traveling to see his little girl, by sending a regular CS check and by continuing counseling. Let him demonstrate his maturity by continuing to talk to you respectfully and warmly even after you turn down his marriage proposal.

You see the response Blackberry got. And her situation is radically different from yours. Her marriage was good for many years. The loss of a daughter and some possible medical problems in her husband contributed to the end. So, if she’s catching a lot of flack imagine what we’d say to you! J

Yes, Greengables, first let me tell you that everybodys' opinions, including yours, are always helpful. I do not need validation. Also, just to correct you, my x doesn't want to have a secret engagement, he wants to remarry w/o letting the whole world know about it. In my post, I noted that I do see the red flags in that and was simply sharing the irony in the whole situation which literally happened in a matter of hours after my post. I would like to remind you that some of us are fresh out of these ugly situations and look to places like this website seeking helpful advise from "veterans" if you will.
Perhaps there are people out there who have lived similar situations and know just a little bit more than people like myself. I always welcome fresh perspectives from people of all walks of life. For somebody such as blackberry, her situation is no more neither no less critical or important than mine or anyone elses for that matter. We are all here to support one another and give the best advise we can from our past experiences. To expect any more than that is unreasonable. So, when you replied to me in your last post "see what kind of flack blackberry is getting and imagine what we would say to you" is...in my opinion...not very constructive. Nonetheless, thank you for beind frank and for being honest with your feelings. I just wanted you to understand that some of us are sincerely looking for some good advice from people who "have been there". Take care.
Mackies Mom

MM, sorry I have offended you.
I did appreciate the irony of your situation. But, I wasn’t sure whether you were asking opinions on whether to accept his proposal, or exactly what you were seeking.

I’m sorry you didn’t find replies to Blackberry to be helpful.

I do think that remarrying your spouse before lasting change is demonstrated is a mistake. I also think there is a strong similarity between secret engagements and secret or unannounced weddings. Both are public events for a reason. And at least one person has posted here who had a secret marriage. Her family knew, but not all of their friends and not his family. There was trouble.

As someone who has practiced MB principles for over two years, I do feel I have some insight to share. But you’re situation does not fit with the usual. You are not in Plan A trying to bring a withdrawn spouse back to intimacy. You are not in Plan B, protecting what little love is left. You are not married.

And given what little you have posted, I would feel uncomfortable urging you to try any of those approaches with your husband.

You could see if he’s willing to implement the Policy of Joint Agreement (POJA) with you. You could follow the rule of Time and spend 15 hours a week alone together.

On the other hand, this is a man who wouldn’t help his bedridden wife put up a crib. To me, that’s a bad sign. Also, he’s a cop. Cops have extremely stressful jobs. Statistically, they are more likely to be abusive. The picture you painted was not comfortable.

And I think you should ask yourself why you want to give him another chance? For me it was hard to admit I had made such an important mistake. A mistake that would impact 3 people besides myself. I also want to save the world. I have fallen for various wounded puppy dog acts throughout my life. It makes me feel good to save people. Probably staves off my fear of abandonment.

Hopefully, I have worded this well enough that you won’t find it spurious.

And otherwise, I stand by my advice. Including to look hard at what was said to Blackberry who had plenty of nice things to say about her husband in earlier postings.

MM,

I would think a minimum requirement is that counseling is completed and that you two "date" for a year or so, AFTER counseling is completed. He has big issues and it remains to be seen if he can over come them. Most all of us have issues, but they don't lead to the actions and inactions he took.

So I counsel "steady as she goes" make no major decisions, but allow time for the counseling.

I don't think this guy is malicous(sp), but I think he is total clueless and because of that very controled by his family. Which brings up the last point, if you don't care for the IL's and they don't like you, the odds of this being a good relationship are small. It can be done, but few successfully handle the baggage that comes with such a relationship with the IL's.

Good luck and God Bless,

JL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We are all here to support one another </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">??we are?? are you sure??

i bet that not everyone shares that view. . .

and i am sort of wondering why you had to do so much reminding of Green Gables when she gave her opinion. . . that i didn't quite understand. . .

wiftty

MM, I would also point out that I never said Blackberry's situation was more or less critical than yours. Only extremely different backgrounds leading up to a proposal of remarrying.

Ok, folks. Perhaps everyone, including myself, is reading too far into this whole thing. The sole point which I was trying to make is that some people, and I stress SOME of us are NEW to this site and NEW to divorce and are simply looking for advice or an opinion about some of lifes lessons we are just begnning to learn about. I've only been a member of MB for 3 teenie-weenie days now!!! And Greengables, I absolutely was not offended by your first post. I just didn't make the connection with Blackberry b/c I didn't know her entire history. You assumed that I knew who and what blackberry's situation was right off the bat, so when I read that she got a lot of flack from everyone, I couldn't understand why I was being lumped into the same category, if you will. And to you, WhenIfindthetime...please allow me to help you understand where I'm coming from, and please DO NOT MISCONSTRUE what I'm trying to say as if I'm upset or pissy-faced about this...I wasn't giving GG a tounge lashing. Maybe you should read my very first post "lets pretend we never divorced". Maybe that will bring you up to speed. If you already read it, well then, I guess it's hard to understand somebodys message without hearing the infliction or tone of their voice, furthermore (as I have learned now) without knowing the whole background on the topic. Wiffty, I appreciate what you said and I can see how you took me the wrong way (I'm a lover, not a fighter). So, Greengables, again I thank you for your reply. I looked over the POJA and am finding the material to be helpful. I meant what I said in the most positive, non-abrasive and respectful way when I replied to your first reply to me. Thanks again. You all have been great. Hey everybody...Peace!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

MM