This is the first time that I have posted to this area..so I will apologize for it being a little long. I have been married for 17yrs have 4 great children. My husband has been a serial cheater for most of our marriage. Throughout the years I have read many relationship books, tried to get into counseling (he refused). A year and a half ago, I gave him a letter explaining that we had been through all of the apologizing and books and plans that I could handle and that if he cheated again..it was over. This past August, I knew for sure and had/have proof. I gave him another letter (the letters work best for him) I told him that he had 30 days to get into some form of counseling or it was over. I explained in the letter that there has been enough pain and that I felt as though someone has skinned me alive and poured salt in and that I needed to move to self-survival mode. Well, I asked him last month if he could move out (his response was what if he didn't want to leave). We have not slept in the same room since the end of August. He said he is reading, journaling and needs my help to get through this and that he is afraid but can't guarantee that it won't happen again. This doesn't sound like someone who has been humbled and ready to submit to God for his actions. He has asked why I won't stick with him to help him through this (I told him that he needs to fix this for himself and his children because those things are forever). So now I have begun the treck of looking into divorce, budgets, finances, etc. I feel like I no longer know this person and haven't in a long time and now I need to protect myself and our children. I have never transgressed our vows and he has said that he is sorry and why isn't this enough. So my questions are: How does someone who professes to love and care about someone continue this behavior and live to lives. All while continuing a Bible study with friends.....
Why does if feel that his actions are more of manipulative actions, than sincere humility and remorse.
thx for listening

I know how you feel. My x cheated several times that I know about, and who knows how many other times. I always made excuses for him. But the last time was it for me. I stayed another 5 years but my feelings died for him. I left him and he really hates me for it. He should be thankful I stayed as long as I did. For years I actually prayed that I would stop loving him so much. I distanced myself from him and finally I left. I think he did put alot of value on marriage and family, but not on sex. I feel such a freedom now. A freedom from being deceived and lied to. I know now that I deserve more than that. It is hard, but I feel god has something better for me down the road. And I pray that he will reveal him to me when the time is right.

I'll pray for your healing as well. I have prayed for a long time about having God reveal to me HIS plan for me and I truely feel led that our marriage is over. I would rather be divorced and alone, than married and alone. If that makes any sense. I just look at him differently and have for a long time. I feel like the old saying fool me once - shame on you..fool me twice- shame on me. I have confronted him many times throughout the years..but to no avail. He changes his behavior short term (maybe or hides it better) and then we end up here again.. I just can't bear it any longer.. thx for your reply

m&q-

Your H sounds much like me during my days of fogdom too include Bible studies and being the head of my churches HS youth ministry! Until his world crashes around him as was the case for me, he will continue his ways!

Even though you have resolved that a dv is the best course to preserve what is left of you and your children, my desire and prayer is that the Lord open his eyes and force him to not drive by but park and kneel before HIM and repent his ways, not only for his marriage but for his own life!

Blessings and prayers to YOU and your children!

catch2222
Thank you for your prayers they are needed and sincerely appreciated. I pray daily for him to be saved. He has professed to be in the past, but I don't see his actions validating that. I have prayed throughout the years and as of late more often and with fervor that Gods Plan be revealed to me because for my future. It just appears that HIS direction is for me to begin and plan for me to divorce. This decision hasn't come without a lot of prayer and time. I feel that I am enabling him to continue because he just hasn't changed. Even though he says he has now. It's sad but I don't believe him (you see I have heard these words before many times but he said fear is what has made it different this time). I am not angry or bitter or have harsh feelings towards him, I truely wish the best for him and hope that he truely finds Christ and repents for his actions. Through Gods Grace He has given me peace about this now. Peace to realize that all along this wasn't about me and that I couldn't fix this for him no matter how hard I have tried. We are supposed to go to our Bible Study next week and I feel that going is such a lie (because no one there knows). I have thought about asking my husband to tell the couple who leads this for help, guidance and prayer, but my letter gave him 30 days to seek counsel and that didn't help. Even if he does open up and speak to them (at this point) I don't think that it will change anything for me. It's really sad isn't it? Thx for your kind thoughts and prayers

catch22222
This question is for you..if you dont mind my asking..what was your wake-up call from the "fog" and are you still together? thx

m&q

Just read your post and want to comment.

I am also married to a serial cheater. Per my C, there is no way they can change or not cheat again unless they get some IC for themselves. They have to learn and understand why it is that they continue to cheat.

My H did not understand this and there is no way I could force IC on him. What I did do is ask him to move out to give me time to think about whether or not I would continue MC. Also wanted him to be honest with me, seek out/investigate IC and honestly commit to MC.

He did move out but continued to drift along for a few weeks. When H finally realized that I was prepared to D if these needs were not met, he got himself into IC, which led him to AA, which eventually could lead him back home.

My C has been preparing me for the possibility that H would not (could not) committ to IC or AA and that I really needed to decide how I wanted to spend the rest of my life. What was acceptable for me? My C thought that since getting caught in his last A (that caused him so much pain), he probably was at about a 20% chance of cheating again (if she could estimate it in any way)...if he did not seek help. Was this acceptable to me? Could I stay with H knowing this?

C has been preparing me that due to his age, he may not be able to change...or want to change. C has been preparing me for the long path ahead of me if I decide to stay in M and work with H on his problems. Many factors to deal with...serial cheating, dishonesty, unable to express true feelings and alcoholism.

Things are looking better. H realized that he truly loves me and my kids and wants to save our M. He also wants to be a better person and improve himself. He committed himself to IC about 4 weeks ago. He has been to 4 IC sessions and now six AA meetings. He is working hard. He praises me for helping him see that he needed to seek help, however, he came to these decisions on his own.

I guess I'm just letting you know that you have to decide what you can live with. If your H won't seek help, can you continue to live as you have in the past? If not, D may be your only answer.

Good luck.

sss

still so sad,
Thank you for your reply..I know in my heart that if he doesn't see a counselor that his chances for recovery are slim to none (at least what my heart says). Because of that, I also know that I won't be able to continue on this same path. I feel that being divorced and alone is better than married and alone. He says he wants to work on things, have me help him and be supportive. I see this as just continued behavior and continuing on the same path. It's hard to trust him anymore or believe what he says..which is sad. I will keep you and your husband in my prayers that your are able to restore your marriage. Thank you again

M&Q,

You asked "Why does it feel that his actions are more of manipulative actions, than sincere humility and remorse."

It feels like that because that is what they are. He has learned to manipulate you because, as a serial cheater he has always used this tactic in the past, and it worked, because you stood by him. Now you are not willing to, he is sorry. Sorry that you won't be there, not sorry for his actions. Not yet.

I agree that he has to have IC before you see any change in him that is permanent. No amount of Bible Study is going to help this man, who is so obviously ignoring the word.

Maybe all those people who don't know what he is up to should be told. I don't know....it is something that is worth considering, since the allure of the affair is the fact that it is a dirty little secret.

I will add you to my prayers, and in the meantime, stay strong with your decision. I think it may be the only way for your H to get a wake up call.

Love and light,

Jacky

Jacky,
Those thoughts are how I feel, I felt and still feel that he needs IC to be able to move forward (with or without me). I explained that if he was going to stop that he needed(s) to do this for himself and no one else. Currently, I feel as you have stated that he is sorry. Sorry but not enough to do as I have requested (which is to seek counsel). He has asked if we could sit down this weekend and go over somethings. So, IC will still be at the top of the list. Thank you for your thoughts and prayers.........

m&q

M&Q. I am in much the same position as you -- H has cheated over & over, we've separated twice & got back together, but the second time I told him it was his last chance. Well, he cheated again, I found out in July and asked him to leave, which he did quite willingly. There has been a lot of ups and downs, chaos, bad feelings, anger, and anxiety since then. Once I made it clear that I did not want him back, he decided I was his enemy and now treats me as such. Currently we are disagreeing about the amount of child support he should pay and we have court on Tuesday to let a judge decide the issue.

My H is an addict (as I suspect yours may be) I had hoped that when I let him go and let him fall, he would hit bottom and seek help. But he only found someone else to catch him.

Dede

Dede,
I am so sorry that you are in the same boat. Sometimes it takes losing everything (for some people) before they realize what they had. As Jacky said in the previous post, his manipulative tendencies enable him to get away with his actions. I also have given him the choice to seek IC or DV would be my course. Another MB member want2shine catagorized serial cheaters as a special kind of hell. She certainly hit the nail on the head with that term for me. Maybe your husband will wake up before he loses everything...
I pray that it will....

m&q

I also wanted to add that a condition of his return the second time we separated was that he get into IC. And he did -- until it became too painful for him to handle and then he quit. And 7 months later was acting out again. I would suggest counseling coupled with some kind of 12-step group (for both of you). But he has to want to do it for himself for it to work. Although, if he initially goes because he ask him to, he may learn that he does need to go for himself. Or he may decide he doesn't have a problem after all.

Dede

Dede,
When you asked if he was an addict (sex addict yes..I am not sure how you could be a serial cheater and not be) but that would be the only type. Were you referring to another type of addiction?
That's why I feel that if he doesn't get IC for him, that it won't matter after a while, because he won't be doing it for the right reasons. I don't think that anyone wants to sit and explain their behaviors (like theirs) to anyone..much less a C.

m&q

M&Q, he has already lost everything. Me, his kids, his home, his job. All he has now is his OW (and I think he's trying to get away from her), bills (which he doesn't pay anyway), and his anger. He is so stuck in his addiction that he blames ME for all of this. I had hoped that by letting him fall and face the consequences of his actions that he would find the strength to climb out of the hole he is in for HIMSELF. Instead, it seems he has decided that if I won't help him (and he has told me he can't do "it" without me) he might as well wallow in his addiction. Really all he wants right now is for someone to take care of him, since I did it for close to 16 years, he can't comprehend why I won't do it now. But having escaped, there is no WAY I'm getting back into it with him unless he has shown by his actions (talk is cheap) that he is committed to recovery. I pray that it will happen someday. Not for me or our relationship, which has died a painful and fiery death, but for himself. It is hard seeing someone you once loved self destruct.

Dede

Dede,
It is so hard to watch someone you love(d) self-destruct. I think that's why (at least currently) there isn't any anger on my side...I truely feel sorry for him. I think that they must have to be in hell already to do this to themselves. "Forgive them for they know not what they do." That's not to say that we have to continue to endure the "hell" with them. We need to do what is best for us and our children.

m&q

M&C,

Yes, but he wants to sit and talk with you. Now, a LOT of us here had our X's put up a solid brick wall that we could not get through. They did not WANT to talk to us. They wanted their freedom. At the very least, the positive thing is that he wants to talk to YOU.

Now, your job is to explain fully and without over-emotion, that you need to see positive and lasting changes in his behaviour, and that you will only consider keeping the marriage intact by having him enter IC. If he is not willing to do this, then you are right, he is not willing to work on himself or the marriage. You can stress that he should not bother if he is ONLY doing it for you it is not going to work, as he needs to know that you have boundaries, that you have had enough and you will not compromise on this matter anymore.

You say that he needs to do this for himself...yes he does. But if getting him to start the process by putting his back up against the wall is the only way, it may be for the best. Sometimes these guys go along just to please the wife, but end up learning a lot about themselves. So maybe allow him to convince you that he is going to do it for himself, all the while thinking that he is insincere....and see what happens.

A lot of us here would KILL for a chance to have gotten our X's through the counsellor's door no matter what. It is a chance, M&Q, but maybe one worth taking.

Love and light,

Jacky

M&Q, I would venture a guess that your H is a sex addict. My H is a sex addict and narcotics addict. He is also verbally and mentally abusive to me and our children (particularly our son). I would have been more supportive when he made overtures to come home, if it hadn't been for the abuse.

There is also the issue of your OWN recovery. You cannot live with a SA for 17 years and not be affected by it and perhaps have issues/addictions of your own. I wouldn't have believed so, 2 years ago EVERYTHING was H's fault and I was just the victim. Then I discovered SA and Co-addiction and have realized my own fault and my own issues (and addictions). I am in recovery and have recently started attending Alanon. I also belong to a couple of support groups for co-sex addicts. If you'd like, I could give you the contact info for them.

Dede

m&q -

There can be different kinds of addicts. My H is a serial cheater but not a sex addict. He does not surf the Internet for porn, does not look or buy pornographic material, no X movies, etc.

My H has childhood issues he needs to work out. The childhood issues, which are painful for him, cause him to drink and have A's. One numbs the pain he feels and the other feeds his low self-esteem and inadequate feelings.

Either way, or as with any type of addiction, nobody will be able to change if they do not admit they have a problem and do not seek out IC or help. I'm learning that even as much as somebody wants to change but try to on their own, it doesn't seem to work. They need someone to work through their feelings with them, they need a support group, they need to hear from other people like them that understand what they are going through. Even when they do, the road to recovery will be a long one.

All you can do is suggest to your H to seek out IC and let him know what you will need to continue in your M and MC.

Good luck.

sss

Jacky,
I agree about him starting with IC (if he does). It's just so hard to believe anything that he says. He has been a serial cheater for such a long time that I now doubt his words, because the actions aren't there. I agree that if went to IC (even if he thinks it is for me..that whatever gets him to go would be worth it..even if it's just to help him). He has said a lot of things that never have happened throughout the years. He said he is afraid now..and that the fear is what will make him stop...I don't believe that it will unless he gets IC. Like someone said earlier the talk is easy the walk is much more difficult. I still do pray that God shows him the path he needs to follow (with or without us).
thx Jacky