As many of you know, x-husband is well known here on marriage builders. Our divorce was final June 6 of this year. I still to this day have no alimony or childsupport. WHY???? Because he has not filled out the paperwork. He had it faxed over, and has promised me since he went on vacation this summer with 2 of the kids, that that was the first thing on his agenda. To fill out the paperwork, and send it in. He goes on with the same statement, that I (x-wife) can fill it out. I said, NO, you fill it out, you wanted the divorce, and this is part of your responsibility. But he doesn't want the responsibility. He is not good with paperwork I know that, for the cell phone have been disconnected many times, home phones disconnected, cable disconnected, etc, cause paperwork is his evil starring at him. I did all of the paperwork before, and kept it up to date, and referred to the bills stating this needs to be paid and on and on. I was excellent at paperwork. Kept things in files, immediately filed them, so that if needed we were able to retreive them.

Got into a big discussion tonight, cause I am getting to the end of my wits. I have to borrow, and beg for money to pay bills. Borrow money to Buy gas to go to school, yes, I am going to school (6 credit hours this semester), and 1 hard class, lots of memorizing, and studying, and my health is not good. I just had to go to family assistance again, cause they cancelled my food stamps, and this is getting so annoying. WEll, I get to go next week again to family assistance. So much fun, listening to these women that really don't care or give a hoot. Just as long as they get their paycheck. Yep, I have seen them at their worst. Don't get on the bad side of any of them.

X-hsuband and I talked tonight, cause I have been crying this weekend with stress. I have no money for food, and my feelings are getting down. I see my x-husband as not putting his words into actions. I remember earlier at marriage builders as he stating himself as a caring man, stating that he would take care of me his x-wife financially, physically and emotionally. Many of you heard his words. Well, emotionally, gone....! I just lost a very close cousin, (young age of 60) a surprise heartattack Sunday. He died in bed with his wife. No sorry from SNL, nothing. Just a statement to the fact of, I guess we all should take better care of ourselves. I know he is analytical, but geez.... isn't there words of comfort.

I am at the brink of getting a free lawyer from First STep (for battered wives). I have an appt. this Friday. And seeing about getting x-husband to get off his hindend and get the paperwork going. I have been patient for almost three months now. He went on vacation, I gave him the benefit of the doubt, and said, yep he needed a vacation, a time away from everything. He PROMISED me at least 2 times while he was away on vacation, that when he got back, that the paperwork was the first thing he was going to do. Well, 3 months later, I am still asking. Why does he do this, why does he put me through such trauma and stress? I don't understand a man like this? I married this man, and he just treats me like dogcrap (kick the stupid bi*ch). Why doesn't he look at his family, and say, I know wife is trying hard, going to school, under a lot of stress, trying to pay bills, keeping the electric on, and gas, water. Paying all the taxes on the house, her vehicle. Taking care of all the animals he left, yes, I am physically the one that makes sure everyone gets their pills, the animals get their monthly flea and heartworm, the bird gets fresh water every morning and made sure there is food, and 2 treats in the morning when I let her out. The dogs get fresh water every morning, and the cats all 4 get fed canned food as a little treat, and made sure there is dry for the rest of the time. I clean the kitty boxes out everyday. Can't stand the smell of dirty kitty boxes. I make sure our old dog Comet is taken care of properly, he is on 2 over the counter drugs to help with arthritis. I care for all of my animals, like I care for my kids and x-husband. I make sure x-hsuband gets his mail, I sort the mail, and put a sticky note on the mail after I bundle it up. All he has to do is look in one spot, everytime. I try to make things easier for him, and I wish he would respond with thoughtfulness to me and help makes things easier for me.

He has put pressure on me, if I were to get a PPO out on him, that he said I will suffer consequences. So I didn't get a PPO. But I can't wait any longer for money. I can't live this way anymore. No money for food, is not the way a human should live. While he can go to the store and buy anything anytime he wants. He is always going to Meijers and buying food, and going to Home Depot. He buys books all the time. Heck, why doesn't he take some of the books back, and say here Honey, use this to buy food for you and the kids.

He did buy Chinese dinner last night and brought it over. I asked him to, cause I was basically burnt out, and didn't really care to make anything, cause I have little left to make. He bought food to eat which was good. I said thank you to him last night. I haven't eaten out in a long time. When I go with the church people, I eat at home and then get a salad and drink or something out or soup and a drink. I don't have money to spend. My days of eating out are limited.

Am I over reacting? Cause I discussed with him, that I am hurting, physically, and mentally. I said, to him, do I have to get a free attorney, and get this put on him? He said, why don't you fill the paperwork out? I did ask before school started, if he wanted me to do the paperwork, but he said no. Then I did ask later, and he said yes, but I didn't have the time. I only did it cause I wanted to see if his answer would be no/yes. A trial, which he put me through many trials. And yes, x-hsuband I could list the trials you did to me here, like I told you one tonight. But I won't, cause I care to much, and think about you too much.

When does the wayward spouse start thinking about their family? Our daughter, has a possible medical problem. She is suppose to have a ultrasound done this week to determine if there is an internal organ problem. She is going to school, in her final year as an aeronautical engineer. She is doing good, and doesn't need this added burden of stress placed on her on how to pay the bills. In the divorce decree, he was suppose to supply myself and the kids with insurance for 2 years. WEll, it has a $5000 dollar deductible on each of us. She told me she doesn't know how she is going to pay this bill. And that bothers me, that here she is doing well, and has to worry about medical problems. If only dad had found a better insurance. Guess that is something that I will have to do, another stress for me. Cause he doesn't seem to want to look into something better, cause he just supplied us with a very basic, high catastrophic insurance. Doesn't bother him. So I am going to ask the attorney about this too and show him the divorce decree. Cause I fear, that if anything goes wrong, I won't go for fear of not being able to pay bills and the kids the same. As for medicaid. That is a farse, and I won't beable to be on it after youngest turns 18 in February. So I am getting things done, eyes, (they don't cover dental anymore, so no dental appts. and I called the dentist and said I can't afford it). Getting my paps and mammogram done. Seeing a neurologist for the tingling in my arms, after the surgery on my shoudler for the torn rotator cuff.

Life gets really down, and I did stay after church today, and cried and talked to a mentor. I just don't see how things are going to get any better. I am dealing with a man who doesn't show that he is interested in my life. Why does he not just fill out that paperwork, instead of sitting on the computer and posting to marriage builders here everyday, for hours. I just don't understand. My priorities would be different if I was in his position, and that is where I FEEL he knows that I would of done my job quickly, and efficiently. But he doesn't see where he is putting the stress on me, and creating stomach problems, and diarrhea problems. He doesn't worry about paying bills. When they get cut off, he just pays them. I can't, cause I don't have money, nothing. And he said he would be a good x-spouse, doesn't look any different. So much for caring and taking care of me.

Please someone, help me emotionally. Tell me if I am being unreasonable. Cause he still calls me a liar, and puts me down. Part of the control issue with him. I don't put him down. I just tell him get the promise done. And it is his responsibility. I am not his wife anymore. And he has to realize that he has to find someone else to do his paperwork for him. I guess that was all he found in me that he liked. I am no longer responsible for his paperwork. Also, tonight he asked why am I going to school? I said to better myself, and find a good job? He said, then you should have fun at school. I could if things on the homefront were running smoother. But when you have no money to pay bills, and worry all the time about bills, there is no fun. I am thinking of quitting school, or downsizing to one class next semester, and getting a job. Not a fun job, but one that will create money. Sort of a can't make it on what I am getting now. So I have to go to extreme measures. But why does he put me down, why doesn't he say, I am so glad you are going to school. Not once, has he said that, he states just why are you going, what is your goal? Why are you taking that class? And yes, when I tried to go back to school married to him, I had to cancel school, cause it interfered with the business of not being around to answer the phones. That is not a lie x-hsuband, and I think you now realize you did do that. Just like the art class that I was taking. I had to quit that, and the parttime job I had, I had to quit that after you made a scene at the jobsite cause I wasn't there to answer the phone. A controller he is, and he needs to give the control up to God. I am not lieing, and he may post that I am, but God knows who is telling the truth.

Bye for now. Have to get up early for an early appt. Trying to get my physical health better. Having problems with my health, and it is time to take action. Can't depend on x-husband, cause I can't afford the $5000 deductible.

So much for him promising here on marriage builders that he would take care of me financially, physically, and mentally. All talk, and that is the wayward spouse words. If things change, I would be more than happy to post the good news. All I seem to get is belittling. His last e-mail to me was basically how bad of a wife/mother I was. No positive, just darn down to the bone criticism. I don't belittle him, I care about him, and have realized he is an angry, lonely man, that needs to get God in his life. I do pray for him, and the congegration is praying for him. I have found that when I mention things that I know and state the truth, he changes the subject in his conversation. I do think he feels guilty. But that is his problem. I am trying my best, to hold back, not say anything, and now that I am asking again, he goes into the same statements, why do you have to do this to me? Why do you have to harass me? Like in his e-mail he stated that I and his mother ask to much of him. Not the kids, but his mother and I. Because we expect too much of him. Well, honey, I am not expecting too much, just asking what was ordered in the divorce decree, which you wanted the divorce. Because I am broke, $0$, and he makes darn good money, and I know he has a good amount of cash stashed away. I did the books for the business since we started the business. I know, and can't understand his actions.

Goodnight, have to get up early.

<small>[ November 03, 2003, 12:05 AM: Message edited by: Faith4me ]</small>

Faith4me:

I know your story well, have been on MB since it all began, only now using my "alter-ego." you don't really listen to much that you are told.

Well, OK, that was DJ, but sometimes it rings true. You KNOW we all love you and are concerned for you here -but you do NOT take the advise you are givin. STAY AWAY FROM X-H. Period.

Having disucssions with him about you are going to school, and he has to give you $$ or you have to go to food stamps???? WHY DO YOU THINK HE NEEDS TO KNOW THIS??? WHY DO YOU THINK HE CARES?

Whenever he is near, he causes you such pain. It's all in your post. I wondered what happeend when we didn't here from you for awhile now I know -he was on vacation, so you had nothing to complain about.

Well, here's a plan. Please take it. YOU DO THE PAPERWORK. Do it accurately and do it well. YOU make a copy for yourself. You send a copy to YOUR lawyer. Then MAIL HIM HIS COPY In this way you do not have to listen to him harrass you cause it's inaccurate (and he will say that cause it will show him having way more $$ than he wants to admit).

Faith, listen you have to stay away from him at all costs. WHY do you still have contact? I think I would eat PEANUT BUTTER OUT OF A JAR every day, before I would ask him to bring over Chinese just so he could be mean again!! WHAT IS IT???

WHY DO CONTINUE TO THINK HE'S GOING TO CHANGE??? Hun, he's NOT.

Get used to it. Learn to live with it. Get on with YOUR life. CUT HIM OUT OF YOUR LIFE.

Sorry to sound so harsh, but he ABUSES YOU (emotionally if he can't do it physically), and YOU LET HIM. CUT HIM OUT OF YOUR LIFE. PERMANENTLY.

Go to legal aide, get a lawyer who will get you the assitance (alimony) you are due, then CUT HIM OUT OF YOUR LIFE. DO NOT SEE HIM, DO NOT TALK TO HIM, DO NOT "BUNDLE HIS MAIL UP FOR HIM SO IT'S EASY." GET ON WITH YOUR LIFE AND GET AWAY FROM HIM. You'll feel better once you do.

Please take care of yourself.

F4M, I'm also someone who remembers your story from the very beginning and I also think that you are expecting way too much from your xh in terms of emotional support.

He is not your h anymore, he is not going to show you the same love and concern a h is supposed to and expecting that from him is setting yourself up for bitter dissapointment.

You need to get the paperwork for support done so you can once and for all cut this man out of your life. Yes, it was his responsiblity but so what? Just get it done so you will get the support you are due and then not have to deal with him anymore. All it does is open you up for more pain and dissapointment.

SNL is not your H and regardless of what he said about always caring for you, it's not going to happen. My exh said the same thing before the divorce, hasn't happened and I don't expect it to. You need to stop expecting it to happen too.

You need to cut him out of your life. I know after 20+ years of marriage this is hard but it must be done. SNL has shown that he no longer considers you his w and is not going to treat you as such, you need to stop considering him your h and expecting him to treat you that way.

F4M ---

I've known your story - and I usually avoid posting to you - because it's really a drag to read the same things posted over and over being ignored - when they could really help the person.

The divorce is final -- WHEN are you going to move on?

The fact that you have children together does not tether you to him forever. YOU can move on. Hire a lawyer and file the papers for child support on your own - or go to social services. It's not up to you to FIX him - leave him be and move on yourself.

The thing here is - you have choices and you are not making them for you - you are asking how to make HIS life better --- MAKE choices for your life and move on.

Jan

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am dealing with a man who doesn't show that he is interested in my life.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Bingo.

It was you I was thinking of when I was writing to justpeachy the past few times.

You are both holding on to a part of your life that is over. You are both trying to control what a person does who has no allegiance to you. Even if you feel you must control them to keep them from hurting you, this person might as well be DEAD to you. For all matters except child visitation, this person should not EXIST in your day to day life.

The ONLY importance to my life today that my EX-husband holds is what happens during his parenting time. Even with that, I CANNOT CONTROL what he does or does not do with the kids. Unless they are in physical danger and I can prove it, he lives his life however he wants, and I pick up the pieces when the kids come back to me.

This is just my opinion. I am not living in your shoes. But I see so many people here on D/D board, hurting, wanting their old life back, when that life is over. Mourn it, bury it, and move on. Maybe you didn't burn that bridge, but there is no point in waiting for the ashes to turn back into planks.

From now on when I am short on time and just post "BRIDGE OUT" ... you'll all know what I mean. :}

I think this is really good advice, and is much more meaningful coming from someone who has BTDT.

No doubt, your acceptance and moving on will help you in shaping and molding your future.

Gee, you sound SO HEALTHY after the nightmare. Hopefully, the ones you mentioned will someday soon let go so they can be healthy and start building the tomorrow that they deserve.

It's very hard to give F4M the old MB 2X4 regardless of how many times advice is given and it ends up falling off like water off a duck's back because the fact of the matter is, she has had no preparation for living as a whole and singular person. At least that is what I have gleaned from the years of posts I've read between she and her x.

There is also a very peculiar dynamic happening between her and her x. On the one hand he seems as if he wants nothing more to do with her and indeed seems to snap like a threatened dog if she moves too close and yet is still very present in her life by his own actions. He takes her out to dinners with the children, brings over take out, still has mail of his delivered to her home.

It must be very confusing, doubly so to someone who was so unprepared for unmarried life and never built an identity outside of being "wife", "daughter" and "mother". She clings to the crumbs he throws her because those crumbs are familiar even though they are stale and unhealthy.

I have no idea why her ex continues to do this, maybe he feels they can get to the point where they remain friends for the children's sake, maybe he still cares about her on some level, maybe he's a sick, twisted **** who enjoys watching her snatch up the scraps. We can't know because we only have her side of the story, we don't know if she calls him initiating these encounters or not. I won't even hazard a quess.

F4M, I wish I could give you the courage to cut him loose and never again let him darken your door. But I'm not sure that's what you want.

If you want to maintain a friend relationship with your ex h, that's one thing. To do that you must be able to forgive, accept your part of the responsibility to the end of your marriage(the A wasn't why, it was merely a symptom) and treat him with the same respect and courtesy you would any other friend. You must put the past behind you in order to be friends.

If he is not good friend material(ie. he is abusive, rude or a liar) and you know that, then you must close the door on your relationship with him once and for all just as you would any other human being with whom you do not want as a friend.

You have two choices here and you must choose one or the other at some point.

<small>[ November 04, 2003, 03:14 PM: Message edited by: Not-so-Silent-Observer ]</small>

Not-so-Silent.........
You should be "not so silent" more often!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Your words to Faith4 are right on.......I hope she takes them to heart, although I doubt she will want to hear them. It hurts all of us who are her "cyber-friends" to see her continually being hurt by this guy. I hope she doesn't "hurt" by what we wrote....we're only trying to help.

As far as NOT knowing the "other side of the story" - well, her xH DOES post here.......he's changed identities many times. He originally was SNL, then something else? Now, I believe SUFDB (something like that) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> is actually SNL!! If you read his diatribe, it sounds a lot like SNL's posts, so I'm extrapolating. I sincerely apologize to SUFDB if I'm wrong.

I agree, I beleive her x DOES love "twisting" her and keeping her "bound" to him, controlling her - something he (apparently) did for many years of their M. There is a familiarity in dealing w/x that many of us who were in long-term M's that we don't want to give up on. I think it's "comfortable" on some level, even tho extremely painful, too.

Final point........
I have included Princess Buttercup's post here about the Bridge Out analogy for those who didn't read it. It is excellent, and worthwhile reading for all of US who are D'd, though we maybe didn't want it. The reality is it's over. The M is dead. Get it through our heads. Move on.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
I once heard here about marriage being like a bridge. Both sides must have a strong foundation to build a safe bridge. If one side crumbles and falls, it will all fall. One side of a bridge cannot save the bridge.


If you are divorced...

and you are here complaining, whining or despairing about the way your EX is treating you, you are holding on to a part of your life that is over.

You are trying to control what a person does who has NO allegiance to you. Even if you feel you must control them to keep them from hurting you, this person might as well be DEAD to you.

For all matters except parenting time, this person should not EXIST in your day to day life.

The ONLY importance to my life today that my EX holds is what happens during his parenting time. Even with that, I CANNOT CONTROL what he does or does not do with the kids. Unless they are in physical danger and I can prove it, he lives his life however he wants, and I pick up the pieces when the kids come back to me.

This is just my opinion. I am not living in your shoes. But I see so many people here on D/D board, hurting, wanting their old life back, when that life is over.

Mourn it, bury it, and move on.

Maybe you didn't burn that bridge, but there is no point in waiting for the ashes to turn back into planks.

Standing there, watching your EX over there on his/her side, is not helping you.

Trying to throw him/her a rope, when they are not interested in being on your side, is not helping you.

If you have children, you find a safe way of getting the kids across the divide and back. I put mine on the helicopter, tell them I love them, and let them go. I don't interrogate them when they come back. I ask a simple "How was your weekend?" and they offer whatever they feel like. Asking who they were with, where they went, what they did, is not helping you.

Your kids didn't build that bridge and they didn't burn it. Don't point at the people on the other side. A child sees himself literally as 1/2 mom, 1/2 dad. If dad is bad, child is 1/2 bad. How can I tell my child she is wonderful if I tell her that her dad is bad?

You need to teach your children how to build a good bridge, but don't do it by pointing at the ones that have fallen or burned... find strong bridges and discover together why they are enduring.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

NcogNeeToe,

Thanks. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Although, I cannot blanketly condemn SNL either in this strange little scenario that's going on here. Having watched both implode on this message board I can say with a lot of confidence that both are very trained at pushing the other's buttons and both do so with abandon.

Neither tried to really work the Harley principles for overcoming an A and one refused to own any responsibility for the disintergration of the M. So for me, both are guilty of horrendous behavior towards the other, even if it's so easy to dislike SNL for his seeming arrogance and for the instance when he got physical with her and hurt her. That is hard to swallow regardless of who said what and who pushed who's buttons to get there. > <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

One manipulates with guilt and the other manipulates by witholding necessities and by cutting remarks/intimidation. Neither gave the other any amount of consideration or respect during the breakdown of the M. I'm not at all surprised that neither can give respect or consideration after the M nor seem to break away from the very damaging relationship dynamic that probably went a long way towards causing the break up of the M. It's heartbreaking to watch from the sidelines.

I do have more sympathy for F4M, however, because out of the two of them I think she's more vulnerable and genuinely frightened by what's been thrown in her lap. I'm sure there was never a time during her marriage that she could forsee it ending and I'm sure much of this still seems unreal to her, more so because her ex is still in the picture so much.

I don't think anything we can say here on this message board can really help at this point. It's all been repeated ad naseum and I'm sure seems terrifying for F4M because doing what all of us have suggested means losing that last bit of familiarity left in her life. I pray that maybe one post in the many will cut through and allow her to push him out of her life and reclaim the person she can be away from his destructive influence.

I do read and have implemented many comments. Yes, one I am afraid of x-hsuband and yes he is he. He threatens me verbally, stating that if I get a lawyer, I will pay the consequences, and still threatens me out of the childrens ears that I will pay for the consequences. Won't go into this much more. Like the e-mail he sent me. Yes, I read it, printed it off, and gave it to my counselor and First STep. I see First Step this Friday for hopefully a reduced attorney.

I don't invite x over. I don't invite him over for dinner. The only reason I asked him to bring chinese dinner over, was he said, he is coming over later to watch a movie with the kids. And I don't fight anymore, I just say the truth. That if you are coming over, please bring dinner. He eats here often, not asking. But looks in the refrigerator, and helps himself. If food is still on the stove helps himself. I give up, I am tired of trying to get respect from him in asking if he could have some food. Many of you have not lived with this man, and do not have to deal with him now. There is no respect towards me. I have asked over and over, please call before you come. He refuses, saying he doesn't have to call. And that is that. I am so tired of fighting, so tired of fighting for my life tired of fighting for food stamps (which is a big problem now).

So I am to back down again, and quit fighting about the paperwork and just do it. Where is the fairness in the one that was betrayed. I am to kiss his butt cause he is too lazy to do the paperwork. Gives the excuse he is a procrastinator, yes he uses this over/and over!!! It is getting old. YES we all know he is a procratinator (do something about it) I wish. So now I am to lay down and be like a puppy and be recessive and let him control me again. Is this what I am to do again?

Is it? Peachy and I have similar circumstances. She has a goal of a good job, good skills, and a home that is her and her sons. I am still seeking medical help for the pain and suffering I am having. Was to a neurologist yesterday, seeing another specialist. Going to my primary physician today for a referral, getting a splint, and more tests. EMG's, and another MRI. I need money, and Friday I will see about getting a lawyer at a reduced cost, or free. When does the power struggle end? When does he finally realize that he has been an abuser, and is a controller? I have backed down so much, cause of the threats.

Yes, what many of you said is true. I was moving along for awhile. Then I do regress. When one lives in threat, like Peachy, it is a hard life. If I do take action with a lawyer, I know x will follow through with threats. He hates people telling him what to do. Been one of his controlling manipulations.

Anyways, I haven't posted in a few days, dealing with exams and school, and yesterday was Dr. day, and parent/teacher conferences. I get upbeat frequently. But days like yesterday and today, I get really down again. So hard when your x doesn't do the paperwork, and doesn't do his part. So I am asking, I bow down again, and say to X, give me the d*mn paperwork, so I can get some money? At my time and expense. When we all know that he posts here hours after hours everyday. Is this right? I know this is power control, but I am to back down again? Right? Tell me truthfully, and I can except it. My heart has been hurt many times! Just do it and get my money? Does this show that he has power over me? That he can still control me? What will be next after this? More control, more manipulation? When does it end?

F4M,

I have to agree with the others. This continues because you allow it to continue. For starters what can he really do to you? That is why we have a court system. Ignore his threats, and do what is right for you and the kids, especially the kids. Don't talk to him on the phone except to make arrangements for visitation of the kids. Get yourself a legal aid attorney and go to the Human Services Dept in your local county and get some child support help.

Yeah going to school is a great thing but if you can't feed your kids or pay the bills because you are going to school you might want to look at getting a fulltime job or two for now and going to school when this whole child support thing gets worked out. Face it, you are not going to be taken care of anymore, is it ****ty? Yes, but it is the way it is now.

You need to step up to the plate, take control of your own life and to hell with him. Yo can do it on your own many of us have.
You will feel so much better about yourself when you do.

Jill

F4M, why is he still able to waltz into your house unannoucned? Why have your locks not been changed? The house is in your name now and it is your right to be able to preserve your privacy, that's not "punishment" or being vindictive(you hear that SNL?) but rather a common need of any human beging to have their home be private. Hell, my own mother as much as I love her does not have a key to my house. Change the locks and do not give him and key and tell your children not to give him a key either, if they want him to come over they ask you first. It is -your- house.

That's just the way it is when two people divorce and are meant to live seperate lives, you got that SNL(Subfud)? F4M is now entitled to her privacy and to not have you come and go as you please, do you allow your friends to have full access to your home? No? So then why the heck should you have full access to hers? Thinking otherwise is just damned arrogant.

The only reason I and others tell you that you should do the paperwork is so that you can move the process of cutting the ties to him along a little faster. It's clear having to deal with him sets you back and he doesn't seem like he's inclined to stop coming and going as he pleases.

F4me,

People can only be controlled if they allow it, people can only be munipulated if they let them munipulate.

Change the locks and don't give him a key. Then call the cops every time he comes in the house. He's not allowed! He doesn't have to abuse or hit you because he's not an owner of the house any more and you guys are divorced so the cops can kick him out and arrest him eventually. This is plain and simple. He can't watch a movie with the children, he can't eat there, he can't come in to even potty. He's coming in unwelcome so call the cops.

Quit being munipulated and quit being controlled by him.

Anna

<small>[ November 06, 2003, 12:47 PM: Message edited by: Anna2000 ]</small>

"Change the locks" seems too simple. I'd have to bargain that you have already entertained that thought, and have not done so because of threats/intimidation.

Do you have a restraining order, and if no, why not? Same reason you haven't changed the locks?

Living in fear is no way to live. But once you stand up you have to keep on standing up, so be strong and ready to do it.

Change the locks - well, once again he has threatened me with that as well. Also, there is the issue of kids and their father. Which is so difficult, kids are having a hard time with this divorce anyways. And he can type here that divorce doesn't hurt kids, look into my kids eyes and see if there is no hurt. Heck there is tons of hurt. A thought came into my mind today. I got a call from the landlord of the rental house that he bought in Arizona. That is the house where he/she consumated their life. Anyways, I found out about the house during his affair, and X had the house put in my and X name. And of course X(he) got the house in the settlement. This evening before I left for First STep group session, the landlord called from ARizona, and said the renter got up and left. So I thought that x would probably move to ARizona, and live in the house with the new news. Thought this might be a good plan, to disconnect and he could live his life there, and be happy. It seems that would be a good plan for him, to move and get his life together, and who knows what else, but he could be happy there. That is all I want for him, to be happy, and live his life with her if that is what he wants.

Well, we will see. For I found the landlord when x-husband announced to me that he bought a house, and the landlord asked me when he found some renters, who to rent to. I initiated all this, and the landlord has turned out to be a really great guy. He actually graduated from Michigan, at Michigan STate. His father had land in the Upper Peninsula, and the landlord and I had many great talks about Michigan. I connected with him, and he knew that I was a christian, and said he had faith in me, as well I had faith in him. I told him tonight, that x is doing pretty good. He is getting his life together, and seems to be making progress. He asked about me, and I said, thank you for asking, but I no longer am part of the rental house, and maybe one day if you want to talk I would be happy to talk, but for now, business is business. He respected my answer, and said, you have really grown. I said, yes, I am growing, but still am quite vulnerable and distressed. I gave him my wishes, and said he is a wonderful person, and I would trust him anytime with property if I had some in Arizona. He thanked me for the personal comment, and I ended with God Bless you.

So tomorrow, I will find out what I can do, to get some money, get the insurance medical reformed. $5000 deductible medical insurance is ridiculous. At this rate I can't afford to get a mammogram, or papsmear. Didn't get a mammogram last year, cause we had no insurance. At my age it is a necessary thing every year. Haven't been to the dentist for over a year. And medicaid does not cover dental or chiropractor anymore. Was going to get dental checked out, but not now.

As for working, I saw a neurologist yesterday, and I will not beable to work for quite awhile. I have some damage to my neck and shoulders still. I am getting a splint, which should be ready tomorrow. She said, you have a lot of healing, and no lifting of over 10#'s, no turning patients, no heavy lifting, and no turning of the head quickly. I get dizzy easily. I am getting an EMG done in December, a splint, and I have an appointment in December to see another specialist, by recommendation. I have quite a few headaches, part is stress, money issues, loss of food stamps, and stress of going back to school. I thought, as I am off work for now, might as well use the time productively and go to school. Am going to sign up for 2 classes next semester, and probably 1 in the spring. I do want to move ahead, and the Dr. did talk to me about possible jobs. Nursing is definetly out. I talked to her about Radiology, that is out. I have to see the job requirements of each position I am looking at. I asked her about sonogram, and that is out now. Didn't realize that you are responsible for lifting and turning patients. Asked about surgical tech. I have to look into that. So I thought, maybe I could be a sales person of pharmacology, or something like that. She said, I will need a job that I can get up frequently, cause I do have a hard time sitting at the desk at school. Today, was especially difficult, cause I was spasming, and I was able to stand in the back, and take notes at a counter that is at a good height for taking notes.

I did talk to the Dr. about just wanting to get back to a life of doing things, and swimming, and walking, and playing volleyball, and games. I loved to be athletic, and loved to swim, and used to jog. She said, it will take time, and you have a long way to recovery. So yes, I am down, but once again, First STep group therapy tonight, did lift me up. We had a few good laughs, and tonight we all cried for one of our group women, that is having a really difficult time.

When your x-spouse threatens you, it does put a spin on your life. My x-spouse is a good man, but a controller. He can't seem to realize that I am not responsible for him anymore. That his paperwork is his, and my paperwork is mine. I don't ask him for help in my paperwork, I have friends at church, that will do my taxes for me. I have asked many question at church dealing with some of my paperwork. I used to ask x-spouse if I had ?'s, but now I am on my own, and finding that I am learning through this process as well as finding that I can do many of the things that I thought I was not adequate to do before. Maybe not as good as x-spouse, but I am learning.

I will most likely make some errors, but learning is error refining. That is what makes one grow and become more efficient. Just like looking at a house to build. I don't want a conventional home. I want an underground home. And found the biggest builder is just one state away. I have already decided the size and style I want. Just have to wait till I sell this house, and have a job, to decide where I will locate. All I know is I want to get away from this metropolitan area. I want to live more out in the country, and near my place of work. To live in a home of low cost energy bills. REduction on taxes, and insurance. And something that can be soundproof and tornado proof. DREAMING is fun!!!! Hey, if I can't have it, I can at least dream about it!

Well, update tomorrow after the session. Have to go to the laundro-mat in the morning. Taking the comforts on my bed to the laundro-mat and getting my sheets washed, want a fresh smelling bed and clean up my room, vacuum and dust. Have quite a bit of homework, no school next Tuesday, school is closed. So don't have school till a week from today.

I know you all have been helping me out. Just stilll the threats do cause distress in my life. And it is hard, when I don't really know what the consequences will be. I am finding out that the lawyers really don't care, just as long as you pay they will do something, but once you run out of money, they go on to the next person. The courts are not fair. We all talked about this tonight, and the tough tooties a lot of the women are getting. It is all money talks.

So, anyways, I have to finish the dishes, and get ready for bed. Goodnight, and God does love us.

F4M,

First the practical stuff. On Mammos and Paps, I know there is a large push in this country to ensure that even low income women have access to mammograms, maybe there's somewhere you can go. You're in Michigan, yes? If so, here are some links to information on low cost/free clinics where you can get these tests which you need taken care of:

http://www.cancer.org/docroot/COM/c...higan_Mammography_Guide.asp?sitearea=COM

http://www.hersource.com/breast/03/3d/cdcstate.cfm?state=mi

I hope these will help you find a place to take care of this so you'll have one less thing to worry about.


As for the other stuff. You keep saying ex is a good man but from the behavior you describe it doesn't sound like he is. He may have been at one time or he may still be underneath it all. But right now he seems very vindictive and almost as if he's bent on punishing you for some reason.

A good man would understand that right now you need to have the practicalities taken care of so you can focus on recovering from the divorce instead of worrying about bills. Had he any empathy at all he'd be able to put aside his anger at you and ensure his responsilities are handled with minimum amount of contact or hassle. He hasn't done that and all I can think is that he hasn't finished getting his "pound of flesh" from you.

He knows you well enough to know that you did not handle the D well and that you're going to take some time to heal. He had plenty of time to reconcile the end of the marriage since he has said many a time that the marriage died long ago. But you have not and it's very unfair for him to expect you to be on the same page emotionally as he is. So right now, IMO, he's not a very good man at all.

I really hope he does move to AZ(after taking care of the responsibilities laid out in the divorce decree) and allows you room to breath and come back together.

You are capable of it, you know. Everytime he backs off a little you sound more resolute it's just when he keeps shoving that door open that you fall back a little. He needs that door slammed in his face for a little bit so you can find yourselfagain.

Faith,

I know your story well too. And your x is a classic controller. Seems our x's have that in common along with something else.

What struck me is the fact you did not get the PO because of being in fear of what HE would do as a result. I know that feeling first hand. And can say that sometimes verbal and mental abuse can be as devastating as physical abuse as well.

Seems his MO is to keep you broke and dependent on him. He may very well resent your going back to school to better yourself and to start a new future. I know that. Mine does that too. Resents fact that I don't beg him or anything anymore.

And he's the x. The controllers still think they can pull our strings like a puppet. We have to just not let them. And that may be a struggle. But in the women's group you are attending for abused women, learn about more the effects of being mentally abused. That's what he is still doing now to you. And it hinders you from growing like you are so wanting to do.

You're making good strides ahead. I am proud for you.

I say like everybody else says. Fill out the paperwork for him. Get the free attorney to implement this stuff asap. Take away your x's excuses for NOT paying you. That's what I have to do. Make them stand up to what they have to do.

BTW...my x hasn't paid this month either. I understand your feelings and am sorry things are so rough. You are being prayed for and that's what counts too.

But get strong. Keep detaching and working on you. Staying busy with school is great! Learning new things and growing. That's awesome. And one day that will pay off. You need to concentrate on that and take as many hours as you can so that you don't drag that out. One extra class here and there is one less semester you can be stuyding and out there making a difference. Did you decide on a career path? Just wondering. You had mentioned studying ultrasound a while back. Here in GA I know two single moms who do pretty well as ultrasound techs. About 45k to 50k a year and no emergency work or holidays or weekends. Good huh?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by justpeachy:
<strong> Faith,

Seems his MO is to keep you broke and dependent on him. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">F4me,

Peachy hit the nail on the head here.

The prime example of this is the chinese dinner. He made you broke and dependent on him and when you asked him to give you chinese food he felt powerful and in control, he can say no or yes so every now and then he says "yes" and then you actually thank him which he also loves.

If he paid the money he owed you then and you could have gone and bought your own chinese food, thus he was not doing you any favors.

I think if you get a restraining order against him and follow through just once on calling the cops, he'd change his tune alot, and you would see his threats are just that, threats, because he knows you won't do anything as long as he threatens you.

Take the advice the attorney gives to you today, don't be bullied by SNL any more.

By listening to his threats and being frightened you are letting him munipulate and control you.

I got to a point with my ex where I realized that I was in my own prison by worrying about his threats, once I didn't let him control me any more by his verbal threats of violence was when I was free. The whole time the answer was so simple but I made it more difficult for myself by taking his threats seriously and being frightened.

SNL doesn't want to be in prison, that's why he doesn't threaten other people who would call the cops on him, he only threatens you because he knows you let him get by with it.

My life is so much calmer and peaceful now with just a few rages from him, in which I totally react differently than I use to so even those are minimized.

Keep telling yourself that you can only be controlled by a controller if you let him. Keep telling yourself that you can only be munipulated by a munipulator if you let him. Then as time goes on you will grow stronger and not allow him to munipulate or control you.

As far as SNL promising to take care of his ex financially, he made that promise to me in a post as well. Did I believe him? No, of course not, because I saw other lies he told on Mb so why would be be honest about that one either. Oh but he wouldn't call that a lie because he is just like my ex, he justifies all his lies with that was a "then promise" things have changed and this is "now." He's not an honorable man, he has no back-bone. He's a whimp, that is why he has to control you and make you beg him for the money he's suppose to give you. You need to let go of that promise and take care of you. Get what is coming to you through the courts because he's not going to give it to you.

Anna

<small>[ November 07, 2003, 10:32 AM: Message edited by: Anna2000 ]</small>

Not so silent - a pound of flesh, where have I heard this from. Sounds familiar, hummmm..... oh yes, maybe it is that guy on marriage builders that phylosophies!

Thanks for the site on Michigan medical help. I think I have it covered, through First Step today. I was there for 1.45 hours. We did a lot of calls, and the mammogram and pap smear is going to happen. I do have a great advocate at First Step. And I wish to one day pay them back with getting some funding for them. That is my goal, cause they have been really helpful to me and to so many other women.

Peachy - yes, all of you know exactly who my X is, and the control is there. I didn't realize that it would continue on, after the divorce. A controller doesn't give up, he knows what to do, how to use it and he will try to get me down.

We made some calls, and things will start to happen now. I hate to do this, but there is no other alternative. I did sign some documents today, was upsetting, and I did cry, and First Step has really be helpful. I also got some Food Help from First STep. The kids really don't appreciate all that I am doing. This isn't easy and he just buys whatever he wants, and does what he wants.

Once again, oldest is going out to California, Los Angeles, with my other daughter next weekend, and dad is of course paying for it all. And like tonight, dad is taking the kids out to the movie and dinner. More of his showing that he can, and I can't. Anyways, I will move ahead, and can't wait to sell this house, and get out of this place. Looks more and more like it will be this spring. No need to hold on to it anymore, nothing here for me, nothing that I want to look back on on this house. It all has too many memories. Need to get my own place, and set it up my way, and get rid of all the memories.

Like you said, he has had the opportunity to disconnect, but not allowed me to. He is continuously here, doesn't show respect. He disconnected when he found the other woman, and didn't want to reconcile. So he didn't have to work on disconnecting. So yes, it is easy for him, and he acts like there is nothing to it. I gave this man my life, my heart, my words at the altar. He evidently didn't, and still continues on the path of control and manipulation. This man has created a family of hurt and pain.

My wish is to get through school. Get a decent job, and to get rid of this house. Get rid of stuff that we collected together. See he doesn't even have bad feelings about any of the things that we collected as a couple. He just wants to buy it all. Not even thinking about it as a couple that bought the things together. I am so tired of being a charity case.

I am not able to work at this time. Been recorded by the neurologist Wednesday. More tests, and I have a brace now. Does he even see what he did to me? How I will suffer the rest of my life with the injury he did to me? So what, I came to his place to get what was rightly mine, and he won't even admit to all of you that he did hurt me, and physically caused great harm to my shoulder, neck and back. But then he can come over a few hours later, and he laid the key on the counter at my house after he whipped me around. I guess that is all my fought too.

Well, I have to go, enough of this pitty crap. I am moving ahead, slowly, regressed today, but will move ahead tomorrow. Goodnight, just need to have a good cry in the tub.

Just a bad day, I am hurting physically, emotionally, and just more of the control issues.

Do the paperwork well. Provide copies to atty and FirstStep people. Get what is your entitlement.

For the physical pain, have you considered a chiropractor? I have a wonderful one who has worked wonders with conditions medical doctors couldn't fix.

How old are the children? Could they have keys with the understanding that dad is not allowed in the house as it is your home? Change those locks!!!!!! There is much peace in knowing that he can't come in.

And plan B this man. No contact. That means absolutely none about anything other than the children. Zip. None. Nada. Turn off the answering machine so he can't leave messages. Give away the stuff you and he have collected.