.......My EX was/still is having an affair with a married man in our former church......both are in ministries.....I have said before that supposedly....."God wants me to be with him".....came outta her pie hole. Anyone else been betrayed by the fine and upstanding christian?? Im not hating.........but, there are tons of hypocrites in the church and now I see why many do not attend.

Christians are vulnerable to life's evils just like everyone else is. The problem is that we get entangled in everyday matters and we don't put God first. Therefore Satan gets a stronghold. I have heard that more Christians have affairs than non-Christians. I can see that being true because Satan wants to crush our spirit and it is very easy to do if we aren't walking with our Lord. That is why praying for faithfulness and praying for husbands and wives is so important. We have all sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Hopefully your ex and her MM will be convicted (not condemned) and come back to the Lord. But if I were you I would concentrate on your own life and your own wife instead of worrying about your ex. All you can do is pray for her and communicate about the kids...let the rest of it go.

Startinover--

Have you gone to the pastor and brought this to his attention??

what about the church elders?

what about the congregation??

If not then you should--and take this scripture verse with you---

Matthew Chapter 18 verses 15-17

Then allow God to deal with their hearts--and their church---but you should confront them through the church--and if the Pastor is truly a man of God--He will not be able to stand by and watch this--

And as I'm not sure which church they belong to--there are some churches you can write letters to the Elders--like in the Presyb. Church you can write a letter to the Presbytery--and they will investigate the charges--

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ThornedRose:
<strong> Startinover--

Have you gone to the pastor and brought this to his attention??

what about the church elders?

what about the congregation??

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I really dont feel I should get involved personally......I dont want to give my EX any indication that I still care for her. Some people will read into things the wrong way. I can say that everyone knows in that church......the pastor has even called them in and talked to them both. They are just sneakier and do NOT talk to each other in service. My kids do not even talk to this guy in service, they talk to him afterwards when he goes over to their house though. This guy sits with his wife in church and leaves to go be with my EX. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Startinover,

OW tells me last night, that were different. I'm a Christian, but she's Baptist. This is what I'm dealing with. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> OW tells me that they may start going to church. I tolled her to be careful they just might be combustible.(you know what I mean. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )Just toooooooo much. _ Kathy

"....."God wants me to be with him"....."

"God wants me to (e.g.) kill him" (Forgive me God taking your name in vain!) - what's the difference?

... how many excuses are 'we' making...?
this is one of the most disgusting for me...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
"....."God wants me to be with him"....."
... how many excuses are 'we' making...?
this is one of the most disgusting for me</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree!!!

I agree with Adgirl. Christians aren't perfect, just have a perfect Savior.

David who committed adultery with Bathsheba was known as a man after God's own heart. Abraham had a child with his wife's handmaid and Jacob, Solomon and David had move than one wife. It reeked havoc in their lives. God warned us that there would always be tares (weeds) among the wheat. One can't tell which is which. Only our Heavenly Father knows.

Using the excuse that hypocrites attend church as a reason to reject God, is lame. Church is for sinners. If it were for only "perfect" people, noone would qualify to attend.

What these people are doing is beyond horrible and rest assured that they will reap what they sow. It's amazing how easily our conscience can be seared into believing the most ridiculous to be true. It would be impossible for God to desire that a woman leave her husband and family to join with another married man. It's not in His character.

In Matthew we're told that not all that say "Lord, Lord" will enter the kingdom of Heaven. We don't know anyone's heart only our Heavenly Father does.

If this pastor knows and has confronted them, then it is his responsibility to call in the leadership of the church to take further action.

I too often wondered how my husband could attend church services while having an affair and treat his family with such distain. While I have ceased to have feelings for him, I pray for him to one day wake up to the realization of what he has lost and seek the Lord for comfort.

jph.....I agree with all you have said......but, those "IN" the church should be held the most accountable. They are the ones leading Gods flock and if they are setting the example....be it a bad one.....that is horrible. I love god, am a christian and do go to church, but.....I will never become a member of another one. Too many people into your business and lives.

Startin - So sorry for your hurt but I agree with Adgirl and JPH. Christians will never be made perfect in this life. We are still human and have human flaws. When we get out of the Spirit we do hurtful things. When we forsake fellowship and accountability we fall into sin.

Fortunately, Jesus still loves us unconditionally. Startin - the only way you are going to have peace is to get over this. Make a decision of your will to let it go and move on. God has blessed you with a new life, and your decision to obsess with this is distracting you from your vision.

Allow the church leadership to handle this and understand they are accountable to God for their process of handling this. Don't put yourself in their shoes. The Lord has a way of handling things in His own timing and will.

I am praying for you. God bless!

John 16:33

We're not all perfect, we live in a fallen world. If you can understand and accept that then you won't be disappointed by others.

This quote is a good quote "the greatest single cause for aetheism in the world is Christians who acknowledge Jesus with their lips and walk out the door and deny him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable." We are all guilty at some point.

When you set your sights on man, you are bound to be disappointed. Man is imperfect, but when you set your sights on God you surely will not be disappointed.

I would not rely on someone else to determine my salvation, attendance at church or walk with God. That is something I take as my own responsibility.

When people refer to God in general, we all have different ideas of who "God" truly is. I know that when I refer to God I am referring to "God the Father, Jesus his son and the Holy Spirit."

StartinOver- We were intended to fellowship and share each other's troubles, triumphs and not to bear the burden alone. It is unfortunate that people gossip etc, but it was never intended for us to live a life without church.

Matthew 18:15-16 </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If your brother sins against you,go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

My H claims to be a Christian yet lied in front of our priest about seeing OW.

OW claims to be a Christian, yet has been DV 2 times. She also told my H that God put the 2 of them together and that they are soulmates.

OW told me that its in God's hands if they are to be together and be married. And she told H that her priest told her she should tell my H her true feelings about him, even if he was still married. Of course, H confirmed this was never said by her priest.

Interesting how people will try to use God to their own benefit. And always claim that God wants them to be happy. Maybe its God's way of allowing them to get what they deserve-a lying, cheating, deceitful partner like themselves.

NotHopeful - Good point and sorry for your hurt. Maybe it helps if we define a "Christian". A Christian is someone who has personally ask Jesus Christ into their heart as Lord and Savior. It has nothing to do with being sprinkled, baptized, confirmed, or the name over the church door. These are men's rituals and causes much confusion as people assume they are "saved" when they really are not. A Christian is also NOT a person that "lives good and means well". Yes, I believe the Bible in it's entire literal translation. I guess I'm one of those "fundamentalists" that the media is terrorized by and people falsely assume to be associated with terrorists or extremists.

Though, I will add that I am an extremist when it comes to saving my M. God bless!

John 16:33

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by StartinOver:
<strong>I can say that everyone knows in that church......the pastor has even called them in and talked to them both.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Church discipline is all but unheard of these days, and no doubt part of the reason for that is the awareness of how ineffectual such discipline is. If a church tries anything like that, the would-be disciplinees will just go down the road to the next church, where they will be welcomed with open arms and their lies will be heard and supported with great sympathy.

On top of that, our modern church culture has absorbed from secular culture the idea that tolerance is the same thing as love. That, of course, is codependent thinking. It's no wonder that today's churches tend to be so dysfunctional, and that "Christians" tend to view Biblical moral principles as if they were merely ideals to be admired instead of guidelines by which God actually intends us to live our lives.

They be wack. Affairs are a drug.

My Christian WS XW married the OM and started teaching Sunday school. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> She became very religious when under the influence of the affair and the OM.

Back then, I was a deist. I had been a deist for years without ever knowing that "deist" was the word to describe my beliefs. I even went with her to church to make a go of it because she was down on me for not believing as she did. I was doing what I could to save my marriage.

In hindsight, a lot of her actions were sabotage on her part to "prove" that she was making the right decision to cheat on me and be with the OM. At one point, she actually said "If you tell me not to go to church, I won't go." As I'm very much a live and let live kind of person, I told her that it was up to her. I did not see at the time that she was trying to get me to tell her to not go so that she could point the finger at me.

Other things she did. She drowned 4 or 5 pagers by "accident" in toilets and sinks to incite my anger. The later incidents were successful.

She locked her keys in her car. No anger, was learning.

She raked the side of my truck against the apartment gate. No anger, was really learning. She commented that "I thought that you would be mad."

Another one, I'm still scratching my head about. Really bizzare. I was at the movies with my friends and she called for me to come home right away. I asked her what was wrong. She said that our daughter would not behave and that since I was going to be the primary custodian (divorce was underway, she started it) that I should come home and deal with her. I figured something was amiss and told her to deal with it. She balked and said that she was going to take a bath. (see, no real problem) When I got home, I found a small Tommy Boy watch box with a puzzle piece inside painted as a Jack O' Lantern with a pin on the back next to my computer. She be wack. I figure the OM had a hand in it. Can anyone make sense of that?

Later, after the divorce, I was grocery shopping with my daughter and passed the adult beverages section. My daughter told me that her mother said that "wine is a love drink."

THEY BE WACK

It is important to understand the primary factor in all of the lunacy is the affair and not the religious beliefs.

I'm now an atheist for reasons not related to my XW's affair. From my viewpoint, looking from the outside, Christians far too often mistake what they want with what they think God wants for them in order to rationalize their bad decisions. They know they're doing wrong and it's against everything they've been taught in church, but because it feels so right, they rationalize the OP is "Heaven sent".

Christians aren't perfect, but some think they are and this makes them selfish. They think that since they go to church and do all of the right things that they can get away with their transgressions.

I'm going to try to pick my words carefully. In my atheistic opinion, religion complicates things greatly. I won't go into the validity of religion and the moral values it teaches, but I will go into how it affects thought processes.

Religion adds another layer into the thought processes of an individual who is under the influence. (affair in this case) They can't even process what they've got and another layer that they don't truly understand is staring back at them. A person having an affair knows that they are doing wrong, but will use the same layer that should provide them direction with the rationalization that they need. "The OP is Heaven sent". "God wants us to be together". "You're not religious and the OP is, so we're a better match". Blah, blah, blah.

As an atheist, this layer is stripped away. I have to answer to my toughest critic. Me. So, IMHO, I think there is some validity to the statement that Christians cheat more than non-Christians.

I wasn't going to respond to this thread, but FO1,HO0 will probably need some backup from the few non-theist MBers!

Thanks for adding your perspective.

As an agnostic/weak atheist/secular humanist whose born-again Christian XW was the BS, I've given this matter a bit of thought...

If it is true that Christians cheat more than non-Christians (and I'm not convinced of that), then I think it stems from a couple of things:

1. The incredibly arrogant presumption that "God wants me to be with..." If there is a supreme being, then you have no place to presume that this deity is guiding your own personal relationships!

2. The notion that sins are easily forgiven. IIRC, adultery is #7 on the Big List 'O Things God Doesn't Like...right up there with murder and robbing a liquor store. OTOH, there's this message that no matter how bad you sin, it can be forgiven if you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior.

IMHO, the notion that sin is okay, as long as you repent it before you die only leads to more sin.

Call me crazy, but I don't expect anyone, not even Jesus, to accept responsibility for what I've done.

Judgment!!!! Who sits in judgment? As a Christian it’s hard for me to even respond to this thread when I see judgment tossed around like a piece of popcorn. Yes, my “so-called” Christian wife committed adultery but who am I to judge. As a matter of opinion “Adultery” is the only sin that I’ve ever seen where the Bible specifically tells us not to judge for that God will judge the adulterers of the world. To me, that in it self is scary as hell.

Here’s the irony that I see here, it is that one sin is above another. The fact is that we are all sinners whose situations may very. But the wage of sin is death PERIOD. Though I never “cheated on my x physically” did I commit adultery? Is not the lust of the eye itself adultery?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by LostHusband:
<strong> Judgment!!!! Who sits in judgment? As a Christian it&#8217;s hard for me to even respond to this thread when I see judgment tossed around like a piece of popcorn.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sorry, but Im NOT judging.....Im saying exactly what happened. There is a huge difference. I know god will take care of them.....Im pointing out the fact that THEY are in the church and having an affair. That is NOT good period.

cjack,

What I think is incredible is the fact that so many people actually think ALL preachers TEACH what the Bible says--Many don't..and many church members don't even READ their Bibles much less pick them up once they leave Church on Sunday--so they have NO idea what God's word really says-

And many Preachers today DON'T preach what the bible says for fear of offending someone--and many
don't preach it..because they don't actually believe it themselves--how can they preach what they don't beleive in their hearts to be true???

they go to church--because it's what their parents did--or because they think it will impress some business associates--or they can make some business contacts--they go with wrong motives--


--2. The notion that sins are easily forgiven. IIRC, adultery is #7 on the Big List 'O Things God Doesn't Like...right up there with murder and robbing a liquor store. OTOH, there's this message that no matter how bad you sin, it can be forgiven if you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior.--

IMHO, the notion that sin is okay, as long as you repent it before you die only leads to
more sin.


TR- Cjack, you make a very valid point here--and the Bible does address this issue in the Book of the Letters to the Roman's Chapters 5 and 6--

In Chapter 6--Paul writes to the Romans who believed that if they sin more--they will then recieve more grace--to which his reply to them was--

1)What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2) God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

And he continues on about the misconception many Christians have about this very topic--through out Chapter 6--and how wrong it is to believe and live their lives this way--

but it is also wrong to believe that every preacher in a pulpit is actually TEACHING what the Bible says--and that every person who goes to church--actually reads what the Bible says--or that they even HAVE a personal relationship with Christ--and we can see this by how many Churches do not do what the bible says--in the verses that were mentioned above in Matthew--

I as a Christian..was the WS--I had an EA--and the conviction I personally felt inside--knowing what I was doing went against the very beliefs in which I claimed to have--was overwhelming--to the point of confession, and repentance--did it save my marriage? No, it didn't--but those are the consequences--But I also know that Christ forgives me--even if my ex chooses not to--

according to him - he was not brought under conviction for his own actions--but that is between He and God--a God in which he claims to know and love--yet continues to ignore--which tells me 1) he is either not truly a Christian, or 2) he ignores the conviction God places on his heart--just like many others who fill the church pews today--


--Call me crazy, but I don't expect anyone, not even Jesus, to accept responsibility for what I've done. --

TR- And this is the true Grace of God--in that we don't expect anyone, not even Jesus, to accept responsibility for what we've done--we admit that we do and have sinned against God--

That is what salvation is all about--accepting responsibility for our own actions--acknowledging them to God--and believing that He can forgive us-even though He didn't have too--but that He wants too- to the point He sent His Son to die for our sins-and then asking Him to forgive us--and accepting that forgiveness as ours--it is the gift God gives us--not because we deserve it--
but because He loves us--

<small>[ November 05, 2003, 08:51 AM: Message edited by: ThornedRose ]</small>

Sin and true repentance lie in your heart. You cannot truly repent of something if it still lies in your heart.

So in effect to commit sin, "repent" and then commit the sin again isn't true repentance.

At Judgement no one will be there to blame your actions on or to provide excuses for you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Romans 12:19
Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">