Tell me if I am correct on receiving this message. Son & I had a discussion & he shared with me the effects of the divorce on him so it was emotional, but good to get that stuff out & in the open. Anyway, afterwards we were looking in the phone book yellow pages for movie theatre phone numbers & I saw a dial a devotion, I thought that I could use some of god's words for thought. Only thing it was from the ex-wh's church. So after son left I was ready for a little heavenly lift, & I know that I am a sinner, but I didn't think that I was to self righteous. I guess I am in god's eyes, that is what the message was trying to tell me.

It could have been many other scriptures & why I pick this night to ever call is beyond me. It was John 8. I thought I was just removing myself from the sin, Plan B, so that I could protect what good I felt with out resorting to going against god's wishes. But if the message is about being to self-righteous & that is how removing myself from the sin is interpreted, I don't know. In god's judgement, probably guilty as charged. Now what do I do about solving this identified weakness or is it?

I thought I was forgiving of my & other's sins, including xH & the other women, but that I didn't need to help re-enforce when it was, an ongoing sin. I guess I just need to have more faith to understand god's message to me tonight.

And again maybe this is all just a little PMS. I think I will just have another beer, bake the cookies, & try to see the lunar eclipse.

I know I don't post very often & when I do it seems like I am just totally wacko. There are times I think I am. There are some improvements, XH is going to counseling now & D-23 joined with him one time. There is a change of plans with OW now, not being at family Thanksgiving with the kids. A month ago he told them to get ready to meet OW. So I guess now at least ExH is considering their feelings & not just his alone. I know this is good. ><> ''

Are you referring to Jesus with the adulterous woman? He said, "Go, and sin no more."

Has your WS made a decision to not continue in adultery? Forgivenss is about the past. Tolerance is about the present. God does not expect you to be part of a threesome.

Vega,

I am not sure if this is what you are asking but I didn't understand forgivness until I had a pastor explain it to me . He said that I had to forgive as Jesus does. He told me I had to forgive completely. This meant I had to forgive him for the things he had done to me. I had to forgive him for the things he was doing to me, and the hardest was lerning to forgive him for the things he would do to me. Forgivness is an on going process for me. I forgive my husband and then satan reminds me of something he has done and I get mad all over again. I then have to ask God to help me forgive him again.

Yes, we must ask GOd to forgive us when we sin. We are to forgive others without them asking for forgiveness. Forgiving others is not for them but for our peace and freedom. Jesus died for the ones that had sinned. He died for the ones that were sinning and he died for those yet to sin.

Forgiving someone doesn't mean you have to trust them again. It doesn't mean they were right. It doesn't mean you have to stay around them any longer. It just mean that you forgive them for they know not what they do. This is the way Jesus forgave us. It is important to have a forgiving heart or our hearts will become hard.

Jesus is the only one that can forgive sin. We are to forgive others for what they do to us. So it doesn't matter if they go on sinning, we must forgive. Again, that doesn't mean we have to stay around them or tell them what they are doing is right.

I not sure if this is what you were talking about or not. I hope maybe it helps.

gentle

<small>[ November 09, 2003, 12:07 AM: Message edited by: gentle ]</small>

Just a quick refresher for those who haven't looked it up. In John 8 Jesus goes to Mount Olive and while he's sitting there, a group of the legalistic Jews of the day bring a woman to him, and they say, "Jesus, this woman is brought to you caught in the act of having adulterous sex (either she was married, or the man she was with). Moses said we should stone her. What do YOU say we should do?" See, they were hoping to trap Jesus. Then Jesus said, "Let the person who is without sin cast the first stone." Amazingly, God softened every heart and spoke to each one that they knew they had sinned, so one by one, from the oldest to the youngest, they just went home quietly. When Jesus was left alone with the women, he said to her, "Hasn't anyone lifted a stone against you?" and she said, "No man" and Jesus said, "GO AND SIN NO MORE."

*****

Vega,

Being self-righteous and doing a righteous Plan B are entirely different. Being self-righteous would be like this: " I am being godly and YOU are being sinful. I can't stand the sight of presence of you because I am so godly. I'm cutting you off because I'm sinless." Doing a righteous Plan B would be more like this: "We have both made mistakes in this marriage. I did not meet your needs, and you did not meet mine. I am willing and eager to learn about your needs and your lovebusters and learn to have a loving, fulfilling, happy relationship with you again. But that can not be done while there is another person between us. I vowed to make the effort to love you and behave lovingly toward you, and I am telling you now that I will do what is necessary to meet my responsibility to you and stay committed. But that can not happen as long as there is another person in the picture. So, I will discontinue contact temporarily until you are also willing and eager to wholeheartedly learn about my needs and lovebusters and learn to have a loving, fulfilling, happy relationship with me--the person with whom you also made vows and have a commitment. I can not force you to choose God and righteousness, but I can choose patience and godliness while I wait and hope and pray for you."

See, Vega, not only did Jesus teach the legalistic guys about self-righteousness, but he also spoke to the sex-pistol at his feet and said, "GO AND SIN NO MORE." Yep, it's true--judgement is God's and we are not qualified to do that. But we are qualified to stop doing what we know is wrong. We are qualified to look into our own hearts, stop doing what we know is wrong, and START doing what we know is right! Plan B is not so much the stone-throwing part; it is the "...sin no more..." part.


CJ

I have spent to much time thinking emotionally, which is not good. I think I am dealing with some change taking place in xh, which is for the good & I have been praying for it, but it is still hard to except the changes. Maybe this is were I might have been &#8220;righteous&#8221;, trying to accept his lack of responsibility to our kids about his affairs. I have noticed some differences in how xh relates to our two kids. For the first time he is taking into account their schedules & feelings. xH also started counseling 2 months ago.
I think the plan b I was doing was the way it is meant it to be & have acknowledged my part in damaging our relationship. I guess I am having to rethink my opinion of xh now, instead of him distancing himself from our kids, to now trying to reestablish a bond with them. (As it should be.)

Broken heart & arm &#8211; I think it is just wishful thinking about ow. It is so confusing how another church & community can just tolerate Adultery. I didn&#8217;t know if the telephone message was just saying, be tolerant of your neighbors sins, because we have also sinned.
I have usually tried to be empathic to others problems & the consequences of their actions without being enabling. My head is saying this is what the phone message meant, but my heart isn&#8217;t understanding.

Gentle &#8211; It is a catch &#8211;22. I pray for some down time & then when I do finally get some my brain becomes mush. I let my emotions in & I have to forgive everything all over again. It was nice & encouraging to have you remind me how often we have to go through the process of forgiveness each & every day. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Faithful wife &#8211; If I tell others/relatives that some of xh actions were hurtful is that the same as throwing the stones in the past, but just a more modern type of stone throwing. This was one point of the phone message &#8211; today&#8217;s stones are not as blatant, but more subtle. I have been in a conflict with myself, to acknowledging that I was hurt or to just keep quiet & have faith in god. I don&#8217;t think I have been presenting myself as without sin, just very humbled my god&#8217;s mercy & his blessings. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Faithful - Thanks for your new post, so many times our head knows what is right, but our heart just clouds up the issues. It always helps to have what you believe in reconfirmed. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Okay &#8211; now I will fess up. Last weekend I saw EA#2 OW with her new MM. She is about 4 years older than me & he is about 5 years younger than me & one of my former students. At one time I had great respect & empathy for her, but I am having a harder time now. Well, I did my stuff & then just left the area. About 2 days later I brought up the subject to a friend about my observation & she had already discussed the new out in the open affair with others. I asked my friend to please intervene if I ever date something they consider very tactless. But then again maybe I am just being caddy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

...><>''

<small>[ November 09, 2003, 05:58 PM: Message edited by: Vega ]</small>