It's one of those sad and lonely nights tonight. I can't get my H's words out of my head, when in the middle of our past few long conversations filled with regret, he said, "It should've been us."

Indeed, it should've been us, if only I hadn't betrayed him.

I will never love anyone like I loved or love my H. But he just won't commit to me either, so it has to end. The rational part of my brain knows that.

It's my parents' anniversary today, 31 years. My dad is my mom's second husband, and just yesterday she said to me, "Love is lovelier the second time around." Why do I doubt that so much?

Anyone else been where I am at? I have had so many consecutive strong days (well, I guess it's been about a week), and here I am listening to sad songs and crying and getting knee deep in my regrets again. Does it ever end?

Jen <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Im very sorry to say this......BUT!! If you loved your spouse with your whole heart.....you would not have had an affair on him.......lets not even talk about it being his best friend. SORRY!.....but, I feel if someone has an affair.....they dont really love their spouse. If you really loved them....you would NOT have an affair. Start the flaming, but this is how I truly feel.

”””I will never love anyone like I loved or love my H.””””

Have you ever seen that movie “As Good as it Gets”? Granted it has nothing to do with your situation but your statement reminds of that movie. What if this is as good as it gets? Well Jen, I can’t look at things through your perspective influenced by your experiences but I can say that I do believe that it gets better. And with the wealth of knowledge you’ve gained over the last 8 years, I would be led to believe that when you do love again that it will be a great love on a different level.

“””"Love is lovelier the second time around." Why do I doubt that so much?””””

I haven’t experienced it yet but sounds good to me. I truly believe my next love, if there is one, will be one on such a grander scale than what I had with my X. The love I had and have for my X is based on a “ideal” and not rooted in reality.

“””Anyone else been where I am at?”””

No one will ever be where you’re at. We all share similar experiences whether BS or WS.

“””I have had so many consecutive strong days (well, I guess it's been about a week), and here I am listening to sad songs and crying and getting knee deep in my regrets again. Does it ever end? “””

Dear, it’s still fresh and it’s going to take time. Sure from your sig line it looks like you’ve struggled for about two years but if a relative is in declining health for 2 years do you not still grieve the death. As far as the emotions I say let them all flow. I truly believe that it helped me. When I felt sad I listened to “cry in your beer” music and cried until I was dry. Then one day there were no more tears left. So yes it does end. Everyday is not a holiday but everyday is a gift and it’s up to you how you spend it.

Best of luck and God bless you.

Hugs, Thoughts, & Prayers

Hi Jen,
I can relate a lot to your words, and to what you've gone through.

WE both were WSs, and our marriages are over (mine for sure, yours maybe?) due to the infidelity on our parts-that's how we see it anyway, and in my case it's true. I take full blame.

Just know that there will be better days ahead. There will be happiness again, but a different kind of happiness. As far as romance/love goes, hopefully things will be better for us next time so we don't seek out someone else for our needs.

I wish I could help more, Jen. Know that I'm thinking of you, and understanding your pain.

I still cry over losing my exHusband. The divorce was final 15 months ago, and he and I havent lived together in over three years.

Grief is the price we pay for love, whether we've lost through death or through a broken relationship. You're in grief, and it's all part of the process.

God bless,
HP

I left him not only for his infidelity...
If everything else were Ok, I would cope with his affair(s?) somehow...

And, yes, I love him still... but just cannot accept living with him the way we have...
Trying that love for him doesn't hurt but makes me more noble... trying to accept loving someone who shouldn't be mine and will never live with me again...

I'm sure the time will heal wounds...
and I just hope a part of this love will stay 'intact'... for he's father of the most-I-ever-wanted child of mine...

Also, hope there is still love in me to give to someone more worthy of it...

Thank-you LostHusband and hopeful_person for your sincere and thoughtful replies. I guess the pain will always be there beneath the surface to some degree.

Startinover - you cannot tell someone else how they feel, ever, sorry. I can only imagine the pain that you have likely gone through as a BS and that is the origin of your perspective on my situation. But, I did love my H, I still do, and I always will. The thing is, he won't let me actively show him my love any more because I've destroyed the trust we once had.

I know the old cliche, 'tis better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all, but to have once had that high makes the low even lower nonetheless.

Live and learn,

Jen

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Jen Brown:
<strong>

Startinover - you cannot tell someone else how they feel, ever, sorry. I can only imagine the pain that you have likely gone through as a BS and that is the origin of your perspective on my situation. But, I did love my H, I still do, and I always will. The thing is, he won't let me actively show him my love any more because I've destroyed the trust we once had.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How can you love someone with all your heart and sleep with someone else on them........it just does not make sense to me. I have been tempted "big time" back in my old marriage, but I didnt have an affair.....why?....because I loved my EX. I could never have an affair on my wife now......why?......because I love her with all my heart.

Also....I fully believe people pull the "I love him/her" out when the BS wants out of the marriage because of infidelity. Im NOT saying this is your case, but it happens ALOT!

After A While

After a while you learn the subtle difference
between holding a hand and chaining a soul

And you learn that love doesn't mean leaning
and company doesn't mean security

And you begin to learn that kisses aren't contracts
and presents aren't promises

And you begin to accept your defeats
with your head up and your eyes open

With the grace of a woman,
not the grief of a child

And you learn to build all your roads on today,
because tomorrow's ground is too uncertain for plans
and futures have a way of falling down in mid-flight

After a while you learn that even sunshine
burns if you get too much

So you plant your own garden and decorate your own soul, instead of waiting for someone to bring you flowers

And you learn that you really can endure....
that you really are strong
and you really have worth,
and you learn and learn.....

With every goodbye you learn

Hi Jen,

Thought I'd jump on your thread with my thought(s)...

- Whatever it was that you felt existed between you and your husband, is water under the bridge. I know that doesn't make it any less difficult to accept.
- All of us, WS - BS - divorcing for no reason spouses, did things that contributed to whatever it was that happened in our marriages. I don't think there is a single person on this board who can look at themselves and honestly say, "I was a perfect spouse." Once you look at yourself, and this is how it was for me, you see how STUPID, POINTLESS, and ASININE whatever the issue(s) was... and you want a 2nd chance to atone. My take is that you want this chance but you aren't getting it and it's making it more difficult for you Jenn. I'm sorry for that. Be strong.
- Lastly, between you and your husband, there is so much that you know you need to let go. Let go and walk away. Intellectually, logically, it's all there. Emotionally, it's not and that's where time and healing come into it. With your stbxH, you two will always have whatever your history is. But, in starting over you get something that he (and perhaps you) can't give you, which is a clean slate and a fresh start. You're doing the right thing.

For fun, I'm going to put in some stuff about my xWW that is in stark contract to Jenn. And, lets also note that Jenn is one of the few waywards who has had the guts to stick around these boards and seek the repair of her marriage. Very brassy. By her own admission, she made some mistakes... so did all of our waywards... now,
- Raise your hand if your waywards even bothered to read any of the MB principles.
- Raise your hand if your waywards made even precursory attempts at saving your marriage for a single week let alone months and months.
- Raise your hand if you think your wayward is or ever will be sorry for the pain of their affairs and dalliances.

Mine wasn't. Isn't. I doubt she ever will be. Everything was my fault. I made her have her affair... and if you ask her, it wasn't a "Real Affair"... note the capital letters. I made her get a divorce. I made her miserable. Everything is my fault. <-- The point being that it's all my fault and then the crocodile tears and recriminating "I hate you"s. Ease up on Jenn. This board is for her too.

Jen:

I understand that StartinOver's post 2 you hurt, and I realize you don't agree that you can't love 2 people. I posted 2 you recently about this. I think it IS possible for a WS 2 love their A partner and the BS. But I also believe that it is utterly impossible 2 give the BS 100% of your affections, which are divided, while having an A.

"But, I did love my H, I still do, and I always will. The thing is, he won't let me actively show him my love any more because I've destroyed the trust we once had."

So rebuild the trust. It will mean more 2 you than what he considers "love" anyway. It's harder than giving up, but essential for YOU 2 be able 2 respect yourself.

♥2long

Thanks Lyxa and 2long.

I just had a very down day. It seems like whenever I spend an entire day alone at home it gets me down. I guess I just shouldn't ever do that perhaps!

I'm back to myself again, seeing things clearly again.

My H has called me every evening except on the weekends for nearly 2 weeks, to try to persuade me to come and sleep over at his house. I have stuck to my guns and said no because for a year and a half, that's all that he's wanted, secret sexual sleepovers, and that is not a marriage, and things will never change if I keep allowing it. I am going ahead with the Dv proceedings, and I've reiterated to him over and over again that I need and want to do the kinds of things friends do, and rebuild our friendship before I'd ever spend the night with him again. If he ever wants to spend time with me during daylight hours, doing something outside of his house, then I'd be up for it. I will be used no more. I know that he says that it's about more than sex for him, that it means more to him, but if I really mean more to him, then he needs to treat me as a worthwhile human being and not just a sex object. Maybe if he gets horny enough he will ask me to go out on a date and do something fun like friends would do, but the sick part is that his motivation would still probably be sexual (at least that would be my fear). This does not sound like a healthy relationship, now does it?

I am content that we are able to talk in a friendly , calm, and even joking manner every time he calls though.

This next thought will probably get some odd remarks, but I think the best thing about being separated is I can just go to sleep at night when I am tired, and never have to worry about a man poking at me and pleading with me for sex, when the only thing I'm interested in is sleep. My H's sex drive has always been much higher than mine (evident in his nearly daily "booty calls"). I sometimes think it would be nice to find a man who respects my reply of "no" rather than begging and pleading and whining about how he NEEDS it so bad, and keeping me awake at night in the process. (Oh, I can hear my H's thoughts on this now, "You are so lucky to have a man who desires you as much as I do.")

So anyway, we can't work to rebuild the trust based on a sexual relationship, I need a friendship first, and he isn't willing to provide that at this point. If he ever finds it within him to do so, maybe we will get to work at rebuilding our trust, but until then, we'll be heading down the road to Dv.

Sorry for the sort of rambling post, it just contains my honest thoughts this morning.

Jen

No odd remarks here. ...at least, no "odder" than my usual! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I think you're finally learning who Jen is, when you realize you're uncomfortable being alone (really, lonely), but you're happy 2 be able 2 sleep when you're tired. I think your H may be just starting 2 realize who HE is, 2, though I think he's got a long way 2 go.

The "friendship first plan" is a good one. It's good for both of you, whether this M is saved or not.

I have a higher sex drive than my W, 2. But I still had 2 back off and really think about what it means 2 me. I found that I had 2 constantly "check" my rationalizations. I couldn't figure me out, couldn't separate my drive from my true feelings, without almost abstaining for a while. And while I did so, I had 2 simultaneously check my tendency 2 "withold" SF, which I view as being vengeful. This kind of soul-searching is not easy, but absolutely necessary if your H is ever going 2 truly figure out what love means 2 him.

♥2long

<small>[ November 13, 2003, 05:19 PM: Message edited by: 2long ]</small>

Oh my 2long, I don't think my H is capable of "witholding" sex as a punishment. You are stronger than he is there perhaps! lol

I guess maybe it all goes back to how I perceive affection and appreciation and how my H sees it. I perceive non-sexual hugs and kisses from my H, and a willingness to do fun things with me OUTSIDE of the bedroom and the house as a much bigger sign of love than I perceive sex to be. He maybe thinks having sex with me and giving me pleasure as he puts it are a good way to show me affection and appreciation. (BUT I want to be appreciated for who I am, not how good I am in bed!)

Jen

JB: When I read your post I just had to reply. That is exactly how I feel!! The best part of being seperated is to not be ragged about having sex all the time. I love it!! I always felt like it was just another chore I had to do. Now I choose when and where. Sometimes when I think about going back, all I have to do is remember that one thing!! I love being single. I feel I have control over my life now. Before, I depended on someone else and when he didn't do like I wanted him to, it kept me frustrated. I just want to have control over my life. I know all people are not like that. My x feels he just has to be with somebody. He don't care who it is. I am not like that. I do want to be married again some day, but for now, I am going to enjoy myself and my freedoM!!!

godhelpme: Glad to hear I'm not the only one who feels that way! I too feel a lot healthier being able to feel good about myself on my own, rather than depending on and seeking acceptance and affirmation from my spouse all the time.

Jen

I felt like your words were mine, Jen. I loved your mom's "love is lovlier the second time around" quote. It gives me hope. I've posted my story if you'd like to read it. My husband left again today...he didn't come home last night. Huge argument arose, things that I have almost memorized being that we've had the same arguments over and over again. I find that music has a lot to do with your mood but it also relieves the soul. Music is very soothing to me. It's midnight my time and probably won't get much sleep tonight..you still awake?

I don't have much advice being that I'm seeking it myself. I'm afraid of the big bad world. I've never in my life been on my own financially or emotionally. I'm totally dependent on my husband for those two things. Going back is impossible, that hurts because I'd change so many things. He told me today, "I'm starting to regret the day I met you" but that day was a blessing to me. He apologized almost immediately but yet, he said it and it has to have some meaning to it, right? I remember the day I met him like it was yesterday.

My best advice, happiness is a journey...not a destination.

Hi Jen, I am truly sorry for your pain, loneliness and all that you are going through right now. However, know that you can get THROUGH this no matter how tough. I will just let you know a little about myself. I have been divorced one year, separated 2.5 years. There was no affair accept my affair with the bottle, undiagnosed bi-polar, and a deep childhood wound. Prior to our final separation and divorce, my wife and I seperated two times previously only to "workout" our differences and reconcile. It was short-lived because we never got to the root cause - my bi-polar disorder. Please understand, I will never completely blame it on my mental condition. I made choices. I was on an off medication (most of which enhanced my condition). My drinking was diabolical. No violence, never around the kids. I was gone alot. However, my wife and I have a great relationship right now. We are working on friendship. You may wonder why I refer to her as my wife - I still consider her to be my wife. But that is not important right now. What is important, is knowing that divorce is not the end of the world, nor does it have to be the end of your marriage. I fully believe that my wife and I HAD to divorce, both legally and symbollically. It was the death of a poor marriage. We both had many issues that had never been dealt with. Most often, drinking, affairs are symptoms of something deeper, more subtle. Something individual. Mine was a mental disorder and having failed to deal with a childhood molestation. I was wounded and as such I was not capable of giving to my wife and my children. I suspect that your husband, at this point is wounded, deeply. Perhaps the affair was a result of something he wasnt doing. Have you read "His Needs, Her Needs"? Additionally, I will offer another resource. "Wild at Heart" by John Elderidge. It is a book about undstanding men, and women, and how both have lost there hearts, failed to deal with wounds. One thing to consider is taking some time and telling yourself that your marriage mattered, your love mattered and that this brokenness matters. Let it out and acknowledge that something wonderful has been damaged and it MATTERS - to you and your husband. So many times we push it aside, say it doesnt matter, and try and move on. We cant until we admitt that it was important and grieve over it.

Jen I also thought that I would never love another woman like I loved my XW but as the old saying goes 'never say never' and now I love my W so much that when I look back to my first marriage I wonder if it was truly love what I had for my XW.

<small>[ November 17, 2003, 09:04 AM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

It's back to the whole illusion vs. reality thing. For some reason I am having a hard time again these days- dont know if it is because it is Nov. and would have been our anniversary or what. I DO know though, that next time I fall in love, I want it to be more the "commitment to care" kind of love that someone mentioned. The respectful, passionate, love...not just the warm and fuzzy feelings, not just good sex, not just fun times, but all of it- the whole package. Probably the reason love can be lovelier the second time around, is because this love appreciates the other person, as well as themselves, a lot more.