Does anyone have any sugestions on getting someone who is not interested in reconcile to pickup a book like HNHN. I think in many cases, it can change anyones outlook on things.

Wish,

You can't "get" them to do anything. They are wanting their freedom so that don't want to work on things. They see the divorce as an end to pain they have been in for what ever reason. They see divorce as a way to be happy.

Work on you. I know you want her to read this stuff. I did the same. I thought if I could just get my husband to read the ENHN then he would see our marriage could be saved. He did not want to hear anything about reconciliation. I had to work on me first and then little by little things changed. Now my husband is more open to read these types of things. He has even read some of the Men's Restore book from restore ministries. I had it for almost three years before God let me know it was time for him to have it.

gentle

<small>[ June 15, 2004, 02:38 AM: Message edited by: LoveMyEx ]</small>

tried to get X to try MB but he only got mad. gave X a book about how D affects children. It was wrote by a adult male who's parents had D when he was young. How it affected his life later when he had M & D. I dont think he read it. state of Al makes both parents go to children in the middle class. It did no good, 1st day over at X parents house after D our son heard how sorry his mom was. you try everything to make your M work, but unless the other person is ready it does no good.

Thank you all for the advice. I guess I already new this. My Impatients gets the better of me at times. I did learn over the last few weeks that If I am unsure of something, I wait for advice from the experienced before acting. I do, however, wish that none of you had to have this experience.
My oldest D(10) may actually get W to want to start trying again. Last night she looked at W and said "I don't understand how being seperated can help you solve your problems" sounded just like me 2 months ago. Feels good to have someone on your side <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I agree with the others that you must work on yourself first. However, if your W shows any interest and is in the car for any length of time, order the HNHN on tape. It's an easy way to absorb the concepts, without having to concentrate.

In particular, the Quickstart tape is a good intro to the MB concepts. Good Luck.

5-6 months ago...
I waited two weeks for him to write His Needs, than he said - I did it for you and still is not enough for you to see how much I'm trying to reconcile...

I read what he wrote and begun meeting his needs...
He "read" what I wrote and did nothing (don't remember what I wrote at all... and one need of mine was - please tell me good night/good morning...)

Taold him about MB, sent him a few articles & posts from here - never read it - yada, yada - "that's site for people *^$#( we don't belong to..."...
Now, when I state something clever ( <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) about us, his comment is - did you read that on that (%*#$& web site?...

I did give her a book a few weeks ago. It was a self improvement book that I read. It did make some changes in me and I know that W noticed changes. I made sure that she understood that I wasn't giving it to her because I thought she needed it, but I wanted her to understand more of what I am going through and why I had been changing.
Don't think she ever even got past the title

She doesn't care about what you've learned, she cares about herself and her feelings.
Take your focus off of her and put it on yourself. You can only change yourself.
If you do change for the better, hopefully she will notice.

I now notice that I am a much more pleasant person than I was before. My X can't see this because he is so blocked. As time passes, he looks angrier and angrier. Which is odd, because he always told me I was the problems.

Heal yourself.

newly
It's hard to focus on me. I feel that for more than half of my life I have been fucussed on her. Been together since HS. Next month will be 17 years. Not much to a lot of people but I am only 34.
Turning my efforts onto myself leaves me struggling to find what I want. It was easy when she would tell me what she wanted me to change <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . I didn't have to think, I just had to do.
One thing that I do want for me and my kids is to quit smoking. This is going to be tough. Been doing it almost 20 years and this is going to be a rough time to quit.

Wish me luck

I am new to this site but reading so many of the articles has given me insight. My wife came home 3 weeks ago and announced she no longer loved me, had seen someone else (just once), and thought we should be seperated (but not sure or when). Our 25th wedding anniv. is in 3 weeks and this just blew me out of the water I was so shocked, especially "saw someone else" a story that, when I asked, she kept changing. I stopped. Despite what she has said, I believe (can't prove) she is seeing her boss at work. He either is single or recently divorced, has tons of cash (explains the several thousand dollar set of diamond/gold earrings I found). I have learned these past couple weeks to back off, not pressure her, get her to agree to counselling (she has half heartedly) and to read this stuff from MB (she won't). Personally I also believe this is all tied to 2 things 1) ongoing relationship problem between us regarding her sexual disfunction and refusal to talk...about anything and 2) personality change resultant from hysterectomy and basically her castration and resulting hormonal/chemical imbalance problems (which she refuses to believe). I notice I see nothing of this discussed on here, which I find interesting. Others should look into research on this also, as well as the widespread use of Premarin, a dangerous hormon replacement given to women. Hysterectomys and this drug are among, if not the most, financial or profit driven practices in the US. Side effects of both are now coming to light, as well as how unnecessary both are. Malpractice suits will be following as soon as someone with enough money to take on the medical field in this area does so, I believe. Me, I am just lost every day. I want my wife back but can't live for months or years the way she now treats me. Thanks for the op to talk and get things out.

Welcome moodyblue Sorry you have to be here. You said
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> 2) personality change resultant from hysterectomy and basically her castration and resulting hormonal/chemical imbalance problems (which she refuses to believe). I notice I see nothing of this discussed on here, which I find interesting. Others should look into research on this also, as well as the widespread use of Premarin, a dangerous hormon replacement given to women. Hysterectomys and this drug are among, if not the most, financial or profit driven practices in the US. Side effects of both are now coming to light, as well as how unnecessary both are. Malpractice suits will be following as soon as someone with enough money to take on the medical field in this area does so, I believe. Me, I am just lost every day. I want my wife back but can't live for months or years the way she now treats me. Thanks for the op to talk and get things out.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm sure you can find lots of others interested in this subject. Check out this link, Lots of good tips on starting a new topic and getting response to it.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=017352

Dear Wishing,

I will reply here instead of 180 Degree, on what to do with your wife in respects other than directly the 180 Dgree. I usually think of Divorcing/Divorced catgegory for those who are resigned to divorce, rather that those who are trying to make things work out. I may have to adjust my thinking cap.

I will usually post to try to save a marriage, rather than providing support during the divorce process. I post in the categories of Negotiation, Resolving Conflicts and Other Topics. I usually stay off Emotional Needs because there are a plenty of other people posting, and some are preaching their point of view, rather than trying to be helpful.

Your wife will go noplace with you alone. But she will talk to you on the phone.

So essentially you have joint custody of the children, and no child support has been ordered or alimony set.

I have not read all your posts. I usually read a little, get some ideas and post, then get told where I am wrong, and post again.

There are many types of counselors, and some counselors are better for some different types of marriages. My wife was upset for several days after each of our counseling sessions, even with good therapists.

If your wife will talk to you on the phone, you have sufficient communication to get the
job done, if you have sufficient skills.

You want your wife to read. I suggest you revise your goal. I suggest that you figure out what series of questions to ask her, so that you will lead her to the truth, that you wish her to see.

I do not see any lists of questions leading to reconciliaton concepts. You should at least have a list of questions about how best to ineract with the kids. Get any parenting book, make a list of questions. I am currently working on Paterson, 1987, for Adolescents, 2 Vol. #35.00, 1-541-343-4433.

Here are some ideas on communicating with your wife.

I have taken the Dale Carnegie course
($1600.00), the Silva Mehtod ($350.00), and the Scientology Commmunications Course ($110.00). I have taken the Parent Effectiveness Training Course, and two other parenting courses. I have the Grades 0 to 4 Scientolgy Grade Charts of counseling questions, 4 volumes, ($80.00 apiece). I have taken Legal Negotiation seminars, ($250.00)

If I am having trouble communicating with my wife, I first think to blame her, but then I realize I could probably do better, and I look to upgrading my communication skills. I look over my books, and make a list of questions to try out to get things going. I try to avoid calling up other women for my communications needs.

There are a number of communication drills, or role playing skits. List the ages of your kids, and what is going on with each one.

Correct my misunderstandings

Quipper
Husband of 28 years, raised 2 challenging kids, still struggling

<small>[ November 14, 2003, 03:38 PM: Message edited by: Quipper ]</small>

Basically she has no interest in "dating" we do things together with the kids on a regular basis. I see them almost every weekend and I go home 2 nights a week while she is at class.
I do talk to her on the phone. Mostly about things going on with kids or houshold things. We do not talk about R anymore because she gets defensive when she gets the slightest hint that I still want to work things out.
I used to call her every day just to say hi but I have stopped calling her unless I am returning her calls.(she called twice today). Usually it is about kids but I like to think that maybe she uses the topics as an excuse to call. The things she called me for this morning could have waited.

Even if she reads the same book you did, she isn't necessarily reading the same book you did-that is, she isn't going to respond to it the same way you did. Some people don't like HNHN. It's a popular book, but it doesn't appeal to everybody. Besides, just knowing you liked it is going to make her feel a little jaundiced towards it at the moment.

Dear Wishing,

I'd like to see a list of questions to ask your wife about the kids. The more you get her talking, the better I think it is. Over the phone is a good start. you share the kids, get her talking about the kids.

Another concept I recently reviewed is reducing a question to a less personally involved question. If your wife hesitates to answer one question, such as talking about what homework junior has left to do tonight, perhaps you can drop back to how junior is developing organizational skills in keeping all books on his desk, or in his backback, whatever. Have drop-back questions for the questions you want to ask, so if you are confronted with a hesitation of your wife to answer, you are readdy to make the same question topic, less personal.

I'll check back

Quipper
Husband of 28 years, raised 2 challenging kids, still struggling

<small>[ November 17, 2003, 07:32 PM: Message edited by: Quipper ]</small>

Quipper
I apreciate you taking the time to help me through this. Perhaps it would be better if I give you a little more detail of my situation. I'll try to keep it short so let me know if there is anything you feel could use more detail.
W and I have been M for 12 years. She has had trouble being affectionate toward me since shortly after we Married. This has been a topic of discussion between us over the years with very little change.
Over the last year or so, I noticed that she would get mad at me very easy. If I did't take my shoes off at the door or hung my coat on the knob rather than in the closet She would get mad but never let me know why. I brought it to her attention a few times that she got mad at me too easy and I felt something was wrong. The last time this came up, she finally explained all of the above to me. She said that she has never been sure about being married to me. She felt she was pressured into it through family and couldn't discuss it with me because she didn't want to hurt me. She does not feel that she loves me like a wife should but more like a friend and has felt that way though most of our marriage. She said that she thought we should go to MC or get a temporary seperation. 2 days later she just wanted to be seperated. I left her and the 4 kids against my will and we made MC arrangements.
The relative that I am staying with is no good for me to take the kids on weekends for many reasons so we agreed that I would come home to be with them and if she felt that it was necessary, she would stay with her parents when I'm here. I also come home 2 nights a week while she is at class and I leave when she gets home.
All MC was about her deciding if she wanted to be married or not. Each week we were seperated she told me she was more sure that it was what she wanted. By 4th MC I was there alone and she wanted D. Her only reason for all of this so far is still just that she does not what to be M. She wants to Co-Parent as good friends.
I convinced her that we should not rush into things and take our time to figure out what we want out of life and M. She agreed but made it clear to me that she has already decided what she does not want(M).
She goes to IC and Support group for Seperated and D mothers and will not make the time to go to MC so I still go alone.
We have been able to get along and be friendly as long as I give no indication that I still want to work things out. Any time M comes up, she gets very cold and sometimes angry and shuts me out.
The last few weeks she has been very uncomfortable with me around and usually can't even look me in the eye or have a conversation with me. She feels that things aren't moving the way she would like and wants more progress toward D.
For financial reasons, we cannot afford places of our own until we sell our house. Last week we discussed doing some minor repairs so we can sell the house. She feels that then I can get my own place and she will not have to worry about me being around so often. Yesterday,she practically ignored me all day and night untill I asked her what was wrong. She told me that she still feels like nothing is being done because we have not moved toward selling our house in the last week.
As of last night I was ready to throw in the towel. I am getting pressure from family to just move back home because it is my house too and she has no right to keep me from being where I want to be when it is her that wants out. Most of me agrees but then I know that it will push her further away from me. I don't think she is trying to be the good friend with me that she claims she wants. She is only happy when I do what she wants. She has no concern with how things affect me and when I try to tell her that I don't agree with something , she gets defensive and shuts me out.
I am ready to tell her that If she wants to be friends, then she needs to show it and not just say it. But I realy feel that she will not be happy until I am out of her life.
Sorry this is so long but please give me some feedback. I don't want to make any wrong moves but I feel that I need to do something. I am also afraid that by doing things the way she wants to try to keep her happy, I am just making it easier on her to dump me without feeling too guilty.
Last night I felt so unwelcome by her that I started to wish that I were'nt home <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Wishing,

You keep talking about just moving back home because your family says you should becasue it is your home too. Well go ahead a do that and see where it gets you. You may be forced to move out. If she wants away from you it will happen. You have to choose. If you just move back in , she will push the divorce and the judge will decide who stays in the house until it sells. You can refuse to move but then one of you will have to move even if the police has to come and remove one of you. Would any of this be good for your children.

Please think about the children. You may have the "right" to be there, but you can lose this right and be removed. She may even get a restraining order keeping you away from your home. This may not be fair, but very little about divorce is fair.It sure isn't fair to the children.

I left my first husband and I can tell you most of the things she is saying is the same things I said to my first husband. I too had trouble being intimate with him. I didn't like being married to him and came to feel the same about him as I would a brother...not a husband.

The main difference between me and your wife is that I choose the leave the home. I felt as your family does. I felt it was his home too and I was the one leaving so I left him everything. I let him have the house and most everything in it. I wanted out so bad that I was willing and able to start over by myself. I wanted to be fair.

I guess that is why I didn't understand when my current husband left and wanted to make me sell our home. I said you are the one that wants out, I should have the house. Well I refused to sell and he refuse to let me keep it and now neither of us have the house. We had to file bankruptcy and he refused to reaffirm the loan.

I am telling you this to let you know that I have been on both sides of the fence. If one spouse wants to be away from the other , they will get away one way or another.It wasn't fair that I lost my home. But life isn't fair. I had to look at my part. If I had of just let him leave and agreed to sell the home, then we would at least had the equity in the house. It doesn't help anything when we try to force someone to do something.

Our marriage is on its way to being restored. This happen not because I forced him to do anything. It happened because I took at look at what I did wrong and I allowed God to change me. Yes my husband did wrong also. Everything was not my fault. He is the only one that can answer for what his wrongs, just as I was the only one that can answer for my wrongs.

You know, it has been a long four years since he left, but I do believe if I hadn't tried to force him to do things or see things as I did , then maybe he would have been home a lot sooner.

It wasn't fair to my first husband that I left him. But, I wanted to go and I was going no matter what. Maybe if he had of turned to God to restore our marriage, maybe we would be together now. That didn't happen. I have had to deal with the wrongs I did him. There is nothing that can be done about any of that now. I have ask him to forgive me.

I will tell you there were no questions he could have ask me that would have changed my mind about wanting a divorce. Believe me he tried everything. He even taped our conversations,( I did OK this), so that he could play them back and try and make sense out of what I said. He bought me things , he paid attention to me, (he had always taken me for granted), he called and tried to reason with me, he finally tried keeping our sons away from me. All any of this did was PUSH me futher away.

I then did the same things when my current husband left me. It had the same effect on him. It pushed him away. I am so thankful that God lead me to restore ministries so I could learn what did work to restore marriages. It took time, it took me allowing GOd to change me, it took pray, and it took time, and it took change. I had to learn that I could not change my husband. I can only change myself with GOd's help. This didn't mean I was all to blame, it meant I learn to look at my blame and leave my husband's blame to God.

I don't know if you will listen to any of this or not. I am truly trying to help you. I have been there. I have been on both sides. I have seen the results of trying to restore a marriage our way and the results of restoreing a marriage GOd's way. I can do no more than share my testimony.

gentle

gentle
Knowing how I feel and seeing what my W is going through and how she feels, I am truly sorry that you had to go through both ends. Thank you for being straight and pounding the sense into me. I do know that all you are saying is true. Although I say it here often, I have not put any pressure on my wife for me to come home for a couple weeks now. I already saw how much it was pushing her away and we both agreed from the start that our 4 little girls are the most important thing through all of this.
Lately she has been very distant from me and we talked about that last night. She feels that I have been around too much still and she is not getting her space so we set some ground rules that still give me time at home with the kids and gives her more space. We made sure that we both know what to expect from day to day. We also discussed plans to improve and sell our house so we don't have to just give it back.
Once we started talking, she started loosening up. She even asked me if I was seeing anything in our future that I want. Meaning, now that we are separated, do I see any good points in it. She said that if she felt like I wanted it a little too, she wouldn't feel so guilty. At first I thought that it was good that she felt guilty, but I do not want to be with her out of guilt for hurting me. That is part of why we are here now. So rather than go with my gut and say "No I hate the whole idea and don't understand what you are thinking" I thought before I spoke and I assured her that, although I don't want to be away from her, she does not need to feel guilty. We both got us to where we are and she didn't do it alone. Not that I want her to think I agree that this is right, but I wanted it to be clear that I don't blame her. I think she really got some relief from hearing that. I could see her feeling more at ease the more we talked.
This same person who could not even look me in the eye the day before, was now happy, friendly, comfortable, and open with me once we started discussing how to make things more like what she is expecting. We even started joking about sex and before you know it, the kids were all in bed and so were we <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .
On the advice of my IC, I let her know that when I am there and she is uncomfortable around me, it make me very uncomfortable being there. She agreed to try to be more up front and open when there is something bothering her. She is also going to plan on staying at her parents on the nights that I am there. I assured her that she did not have to for me, only if she felt that it was necessary

Dear wishing,

About your next to the last post.

I recommend not feeling like the house is yours. Certainly many would disagree with me. My philosophy is that the house belongs to my wife, and if she is pissed, I get out.

How can you make deposits in the love bank? Selling the house is a dichotomy, because on one hand you are doing what she asks, and on the other you are destroying the basis of the marriage, that you are trying to build.

GENTLE said her first paragraph better than me. That is an excellent point of what I was trying to say. Gentle makes the point that you can push your wife away, by asserting your rights. Your wife can strip you of all your rights in a short morning in court.

Have we talked about The Love Diet?


THE LOVE DIET

Us men often overlook simple things that can make a big difference to a woman. I recommend you read The Love Diet, under Negotiating, the bottom link in a post by TOOMUCHCOFFEEMAN, entitled 180 Degree Divorce Busters.

I will copy the first part of the post here, to get you interested, hopefully, enough to go to Negoitating and finish it.

Spending time thinking about what lies behind the meaning of the words your wife chooses to communicate her ideas to you, detracts from your finding ways to generate more love from her. Think of yourself as a love generator, not as a grand inquisitioner. If you had been a better love generator, you probably would not have anyuthing to Inquisition about.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From Barbara DeAngelis book "What Women Want Men To Know":

The Love Diet: How To Feed Your Partner's Heart.

This is the "Love Diet". I've created it as an easy way to remember and practice feeding your partner's heart and being a wonderful lover outside of the bedroom. It's simple, it's fun, and it will make a big difference in your relationship.

When you study nutrition, you learn about the basic food groups -vegetables, grains, proteins, dairy products- and the importance of having each of these every day. Well, the emotional nutrition is the same -feeding your partner's heart means making sure you give him or her all of the basic "emotional food groups" each day. What are these? I call them The Three A's: Attention, Affection, and Appreciation. They are the secret ingredients contained in the Love Diet that will fill up your partner's heart: You pay attention, you show affection, and you express appreciation.

If I asked you right now how often you need to eat every day, you'd probably answer that you need to eat at least two or three times a day, with a few snacks in between. Well, I'd like you to think about feeding your partner's heart in the same way with the following Love Diet.

*Love Meals: Your partner needs three Love Meals a day. What is a Love Meal? It's a time each day for three minutes when you feed your partner's heart with one or more of the menu items contained in the Three A's: Attention, Affection, or Appreciation. I call this the 3X3 formula, three times a day, when you choose to actively love your partner for at least three minutes. Think about it as three minutes of intimacy. Maybe it is three minutes in the morning together before you get out of bed,or three minutes on the phone in the middle of the day, or three minutes after the kids go to sleep. These are Love Meals. Just like you'd have breakfast, lunch, and dinner, you have Love Meal#1,#2,and #3!!

*Love Snacks: Even when you eat several good meals a day, you need a snack once in a while, don't you? Well, the same applies to feeding your partner's heart. Along with the 3X3 formula of three Love Meals a day, give your mater several love snacks during the day. What is a love snack?:

Apparently you are making deposits in your wife's love bank, more effectively that you have been letting on in your posts.

Also, IO see you put a link to an MB post aaat the botrtom of Negotiating, 180
Degree. Could you give me some steps how to do that? I may need a better operating system, I am using windows 97. I should have my Windows 2000 computer back soon though.

Posting is therapeutic,

Quipper
Husband of 28 years, raised 2 challenging kids, still struggling

<small>[ November 17, 2003, 08:16 PM: Message edited by: Quipper ]</small>