Tonight we went out together with my D and her BF. It is my D 16th birthday and she wanted the 4 of us to go out to dinner together to celebrate her BD.

It was a pleasant time. After we went out we came to my house for cake and ice cream. My W wanted to leave fairly quickly because she was tired. Every time she said that previously months ago, she would fake going home and go to OM apt and stay the night. I had to drop my D BF at his home, while I was out I passed by my W house to see if she was lying again. She caught me.

I called her up to talk about it. It was a big LB, but she lied so many times in the past, I just wanted to see if she was starting to tell the truth again. Big mistake I suppose. As I spoke to her she told me that she had built up much hatred for me over the years and during the separation and that she wasn't ready to rebuild the marriage. She want to be able to date me but do what ever she wants with whomever she wants when we are not dating. I told her that I had to check and do whatever was necessary to reestablish trust, but she said. She needed freedom to do what she wanted to because she had been my "slave" (bullSh*t- She never cooked, or even cleaned the last few years.) but back to it.

She told me that she was 80 percent sure she wanted a divorce and she needed freedom to make up her mind, that freedom included dating others and being intimate with them if she wanted, that she didn't love me and was sorry that I had to go through this. She told me that if it was more than I could take to file for the divorce. But she also told me that even though she hated me, and wanted to date others that it didn't mean that she didn't want to date me or for me to call. She said that she doesn't want to come back and try until she can forgive and she just can't do that.

I don't know what I will feel like tomorrow, but tonight I feel like I should give up and let her go.

I can't stand this anymore. What to do? Divorce her or go into Plan B. I am

Firebird--

Follow the advice from the others who have posted on your other thread.

I am speaking as a husband who's wife finally filed for divorce after two men were discovered in her life.

The words I heard from her are much like the ones you are hearing. They are all scripted and if you spend enough time here and read many, many past post you will see the same thing.

You need to take care of yourself, look at the areas of your life where you wife has made negative comments. Focus on you and your children! They will need it. There is absoutely NOTHING that you can do to change her mind or to make her come back to you. All you can do is change yourself.

All of these people are right. If you do not want to file for a divorce then do not. I know that mine was waiting for me to file. Many months after her first affair was discovered she was telling the second other man;

"I am waiting for Trusting to file for divorce."

While telling her best friend at the same time;

"I find myself sitting and looking at Trusting and wonder how I ever got myself into this mess."

Plan A works as her above comment tells me that she did see changes in me. I just never went to Plan B. Bad decision.

Take care of yourself! Take care of your daughter! Take a deep look at yourself and discover what you can change about you to make you happy, not her. Yes! I am a man of faith, depend on God for strenght and let Him take care of your wife.

You are in my prayers as I know exactly where you are tonight. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Firebird,
I read your other thread because we are in similar places, waiting on our spouse and not knowing what to expect while they carry on their lives.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Firebird said
What to do? Divorce her or go into Plan B </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You can never go wrong using Plan B in it's proper sequence and place. If you don't want a divorce, then don't do it. There isn't any reason to rush (other than for your own closure) and as long as you can wait, I would. Personally, I'm going into my second year of waiting; and at the rate things are happening (not) I don't know how much longer this will go on and it may be ME who has to file. But I wanted to know that I did everything to make our marriage work and avoid divorce.

Thanks Trusting and avondale,

After sleeping on it, and listening to the advice of others, I think my attempt at going into a Plan A after Plan B was a mistake. I do believe I could have convinced her to come back sooner than later, but not with the kind of committment or respect I wanted from her and would probably lead to meltdown of the marriage down the road.

She told me of things she hated me for. Years of taking her for granted and not loving her the way she wanted. Not doing my share to keep up the house and no understanding of what she is going through with an ailing mother, an ailing D with severe asthma and me, with the bypass and long lasting consequences due to unforseen complications. Some of what she said is true and some of it embellishment to justify her arguments.
The truth lies somewhere in between.

She is angry and cannot forgive me now, but "maybe sometime in the future". Much of the problems with job pressures, her mother's dependence and my D asthma have caused her much pressure, but they were things beyond my control. I helped but sometimes begrudgingly b/c she wasn't meeting my emotional needs and seldom showed gratitude for what I helped with or tolorated.

She says she is tired of living for others and is going to live for herself now and she needs that. This includes being with other men, complete freedom from me and with no committment or goal to work on the marriage. And if I can not handle that then I should just file for divorce.

To me it sounds like such a bizarre argument that it doesn't ring true and I can't believe it is her real motivation. If I accept this, I feel like I will be telling her "Do what you want to me, I don't deserve your respect. If I don't do it, I will may hear: "See? You didn't really love me enough to give me the freedom I needed to decide if I loved you or not."

Would Plan B work for someone like this, or just let them go?

She told me of things she hated me for.

And she will continue to do so. I heard things that my wife hated about me that went back seventeen years to when we were first dating. I know it sounds harsh but please do NOT do what I did and try to accept ALL the responsibility for these problems.

Identify those that you know are true and that you can change and work on those. Please bear in mind that as long as your wife is involved with another man you cannot believe 90% of what she says.

She is angry and cannot forgive me now, but "maybe sometime in the future".

I think the real statement would probably be more like "I am angry at myself and cannot forgive myself" Is there angre toward you? Of course there is. Your wife has to blame someone for her actions as you just happen to be the closest one around. She lashes out at you and blames you. You may be responsible for an enviroment in the marraige that did not meet her most important needs but you ARE NOT responsible for her relationship with another man.

I wish there was a way I could share the exact feelings and frustration I experienced for well over a year but that is almost impossible. What I do know is that I see in your words and actions the same pattern I had.

Please quit worrying about your wife and how she feels right now. Oh!, you can continue to love her and continue to have a desire to reconcile but you MUST take care of yourself first.

It is a bizzare arguement and you will never make her change her mind. I would imagine that she would rather you file so that she does not have to face that guilt too. My wife was trying so hard to make me do it that I am amazed at what she would do.

Please....please....take care of yourself. You are reponsible for you and your daughter. Be there for her.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Would Plan B work for someone like this, or just let them go? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Have you thought of making an appointment with one of the Harleys about this? Steve or Jennifer could give you some solid guidance about which step to take next. They have tons of experience. In my first appointment Steve gave me more clear direction than our previous counselor did in 6 months of sessions. I guarantee it would be money well spent. (And no, I do not receive kickbacks for referrals, LOL)

Trusting:
<strong>She is angry and cannot forgive me now, but "maybe sometime in the future".

I think the real statement would probably be more like "I am angry at myself and cannot forgive myself" Is there angre toward you? Of course there is. Your wife has to blame someone for her actions as you just happen to be the closest one around. She lashes out at you and blames you. You may be responsible for an enviroment in the marraige that did not meet her most important needs but you ARE NOT responsible for her relationship with another man. </strong>

I believe you hit the bullseye here. It doesn't matter if I chase or ignore her. Her anger remains. It must come from within. She pretends to be oblivious to the reactions of friends and relatives, but I see some cracks in her facade and frustration with her inablility to make herself happy by adulterous liasons, she probably feels some embarrasment and isolation from family and friends but yet she seems to interpret my steadfastness as a weak need of her which seems to fuel her anger. Some Tough Love in order?

avondale:
<strong>Have you thought of making an appointment with one of the Harleys about this? Steve or Jennifer could give you some solid guidance about which step to take next. They have tons of experience. In my first appointment Steve gave me more clear direction than our previous counselor did in 6 months of sessions. I guarantee it would be money well spent. (And no, I do not receive kickbacks for referrals, LOL) </strong>

No, I didn't think you got kickbacks <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> I have had one session with Steve during July. Things were diffent then. She and OM were completely consumed with one another and in constant companionship. OMW chats with me and tells me OM tell her his relationship with my W is not going to be long term and sees 'problems'. What kind, I don't know. Both OM and my W are controlling types, maybe that's it. OM wants to go back with his wife, but does big time LBing everytime they meet. Maybe my W is feeling she didn't find the complete happiness she thought she would find now that the new has worn off.

Most of Steve's assumptions and predictions are coming true, but even quicker than he thought. I never considered a revisit, but it may be the best thing right now. The guy is great to talk to. Thanks for the tip.