RTRC - Yeah, it's the roller coaster ride of your life! So you better hold on. I remember my emotions and thoughts going from one extreme to the other, it was so crazy.

You aren't doing any of this to her or pushing her away or forcing her to do what ever it is she does. She's choosing to do this for herself by herself.

I got to the point of realizing nothing she did would surprise me. So that when she did do something totally out of character I wouldn't be as surprised.

It's funny how single people want to be married and some married people want to be single. The grass is never greener on the other side. It's green where ever it's watered.

<small>[ December 17, 2003, 04:08 PM: Message edited by: Eduard ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Eduard:
<strong> RTRC -
I got to the point of realizing nothing she did would surprise me. So that when she did do something totally out of character I wouldn't be as surprised.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Eduard:
I've lurking and posting on MB forums for sometime. The descriptions of people in the FOG seemed bazaar, but MAN, it's not funny! Some say they are possessed by Satan, some possessed by an alien and those are good descriptions. Other than the exterior, not much remains of the old person.

What I wonder is when they come out of the fog, can they ever go back to the good, kind and loving person they once were. Coming out of the fog means to me that they see things as they really are. Most of them have made such a mess of them selves mentally and lost all their credibility with everyone that knew them. It would seem to be a really long hard climb back up the hill. Daunting to say the least.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>It's funny how single people want to be married and some married people want to be single. The grass is never greener on the other side. It's green where ever it's watered. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's a good comparison. To bad most destroy their own back yard trying to go another. Eduard has you EX ever returned to something like normal again?

Yeah, the fog can make a person do out of character things. I personally believe they are being blinded and fed false hope, lies, fulfillment etc. by Satan.

They are told that there is something better out there, to keep searching and to not be happy with what you have. That you can have better and you shouldn't settle for what you currently have. That your current S does not love you and the OP loves you more.

He knows our weaknesses better then we do and plays on those. I think he pinpoints the WS weakness such as not being content or magnifying their selfishness to greater levels to accomplish his goals.

I read that sexual sin is the greatest blow he can deliver to God because our bodies are temples to God. God is living in us who have invited him, so to desecrate our bodies is to make our bodies unfit temples for God.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What I wonder is when they come out of the fog, can they ever go back to the good, kind and loving person they once were.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think the fog transforms people and they certainly won't be the same person better or worse. The better or worse is something they have to determine for themeselves.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Eduard has you EX ever returned to something like normal again?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Tough question to answer. I think she fades in and out at times but for the most part is still in the fog. I feel she hasn't allowed herself the time and opportunity to be alone and really think about things without outside influence.

I have had very limited contact with her since she moved back to CA in the beginning of Oct. When she did come back to pick up her stuff at the end of Oct, from what I saw she still wasn't the same person.
We ended up having a Jerry Springer moment with her and her Dad when we were splitting up what she was/wasn't taking because she failed to return my calls prior to coming out to decide before hand what was/wasn't going. Instead she ended up trying to take what she wanted without concession. And what I had thought we decided before hand, she didn't stick to.

It was pretty sad and pathetic, but I had to stick my ground. I didn't want things to get to the point they got to, but at the same time I was not willing to allow myself to be more of a doormat then I already had been. Things like that just provide further confirmation to my decision.

So, to truly answer your question I'd have to say not to my knowledge has she returned to the "normal, rational" person I thought I knew. I haven't had enough contact, etc to truly determine that, but actions do speak louder then words.

I do hope one day she will willingly free herself of the Fog and find God through all of this for her own sake.

Firey and Ed
I'm heading out for a 2 wk vacation but will be thinking of you guys. If I get the chance I'll post something and read how your holidays go. I know they are going to be hard on all of us. I'll be praying for you both.

Wish me luck as I head into the lion's den to see the in-laws at some point. It's some sort of suicide mission but one I think is important. I hope they don't have any sodium pentathol (true serum) for the interrogation or I'm in deep caca. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Merry Christmas and Best wishes.

Take it easy RTRC and have as awesome of a holiday as possible.

As of tomorrow I might not have set internet access till I'm back at work 12/29. I'm going back to CA myself and hoping not to have any run ins with in-laws or STBXW. I'll check the boards when I can.

I'll be thinking of you two and will be sure to keep you in my prayers!

RTRC:

Don't sweat the small stuff. You're going to be fine. I think you are going to enjoy the break. I'll bet you IL treat you good too. You'll be in my prayers and check in. I'll miss hearing from you, but I think you, Eduard and I will have a good Holiday regardless of any circumstance. Like TMCM says, were going to make it.

If you want a buddy to talk to, I'll give you my cell number via email. Call whenever you want to.

God bless and keep you well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

<small>[ December 18, 2003, 07:20 PM: Message edited by: Firebird ]</small>

Either of you guys back yet?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Eduard:
<strong> Either of you guys back yet? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm back. Hope you all had a nice Holiday. Mine wasn't bad. It was pretty nice. Lots of get togethers with family (both mine and inlaws). I went to IL's house Christmas Eve to swap presents like usual and again there on Christmas day for a few hours for Christmas dinner. W was there and we got along well, but there is nothing there anymore. I didn't feel good nor bad that she was there.

I invited W to my dad's on New Years day. I was reciprocating and it was my dad's BD. My dad told her he missed her and she said she missed him too then he said "see what you are giving up?" She responded with a sad, "Yes, I know". I didn't put him up to it, because I wouldn't want her back because she missed just my family and not me. It's all or nothing and it looks like nothing. She had mentioned in Nov. about filing for D after the Holidays. I'm ready, I want off the emotional rollercoaster. She is still seeing OM and I am not even bothered by it much. This is sincere. I am starting to feel gratitude that he helped to end it.

Our marriage was in name only the last few years. Time to let go. I said I wouldn't do it until I tried all that I could. I realize that some of you know, that I broke my Plan B a number of times and got hurt everytime. My love bank seems empty now. If there is anything there, it may be in some obscure deposit box hidden in a seldom visited vault.

I had a date for New Years Eve after having been rejected by W. I was sorry I asked and was somewhat relieved when W said, after I asked her if she had plans tha she "thought someone might have said something" and she would let me know". I just caught her off guard with the invitation and she couldn't make up a good story quick enough. I can't stand to be lied to. I immediately invited her to go ahead with her plans and that I would make others. I did and had a very good time, double dating and bringing in the New Year at Ye Old College Inn listening and dancing to my favorite band, Benny Grunch and the Bunch. Last night I went to a dinner and card party with the same woman at the same couple's house that I spent New Years Eve with. It's a start and I must go on. I will make it and I have spent enough time and effort on this marriage.

My New Years motto is : "Prepare for more in 2004. Back alive in 2005." Seems like a reasonable time for healing and readjusting. My attitude is good and I have no hatred or anger because of the years lost. I did get a wonderful daughter from the marriage.

Fill me in on what you all did during the Holidays.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She is still seeing OM and I am not even bothered by it much. This is sincere.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's a good start. The healing process started for me when I didn't care what she was doing anymore or who she was with.

We all want off the emotional roller coaster sooner then later, but it's not really up to us. Sometimes God has things he wants to teach us and if we try to short circuit the process we may never learn the lesson he intended for us to learn.
I know an important lesson to be learned is that D should not be easy. As much as I hate the slow and go process and being dragged on waiting for the WW to do her part, if it was easy then I'd be afraid that next time I would be tempted to give up too soon.


I had a very good Christmas Holiday. Went back to CA to see my family and friends for a week. It was the first time I had been back since D-day when I found out the last time there.

I ran into WW whom I hadn't seen in a couple of months at her new company she works for which was awkward. We chatted shortly and there were still no feelings there which was nice to re-affirm. She looked a lot skinnier then I had ever seen her but I thought it was an unhealthy look.

I've been waiting on her to complete her end of the paperwork to get the ball rolling. I think there's been a lag in the process due to the holiday's so hopefully her lawyer will get off her rear and get it going.

Anything else new FB?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Eduard:
<strong> [QUOTE]
We all want off the emotional roller coaster sooner then later, but it's not really up to us. Sometimes God has things he wants to teach us and if we try to short circuit the process we may never learn the lesson he intended for us to learn.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am trying to let things develop on their own. I have tried to resist any tendency towards knee-jerk reactions. I understand what you mean about short circuiting the process. I will let W make all the moves, but will keep a wary eye out for anthing unusual that might indicate anything underhanded. I am accepting of what God provides and let it come to me. I reach for nothing.

I am glad you had a good Christmas. It must be a relief last Christmas. As I may have mentioned, being separated this year was much easier to take than being together last Christmas.

[qb] </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She looked a lot skinnier then I had ever seen her but I thought it was an unhealthy look.[/gb]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Perhaps her new life style is not so wonderful as she thought it would be. WS have such a narrow view of their objective they don't see all the snakes, spiders and quicksand along the way.

Patience through all of this has been the toughest thing to endure. From the very beginning to the very end it has been all about waiting.

My lawyer finally received the Notice of Service Acknowledgement (oh over a month after it was supposed to be back) and will be filing it today to start the 31 day wait process we have here in GA.

Now the real fun begins of figuring out the Settlement agreement. WW has been taking money we should both be receiving from renting our house in CA. Who knows what else she may not agree with in the settlement, but at least I'm a lot closer then I was yesterday.

Hey Guys
I was glad to read about your holiday celebrations. You guys did well throughout. Sorry I was gone for so long, but I've had a lot of thinking to do and have been (to quote another poster here) "staying dark" for a couple of days. The holidays were really good for me. I spent time with the fam (in Jamaica!!!, it was great sunny and warm 1/2 the time and both active and beach lounging drunkness as well). I also saw the ILs and spent time with college guys with their first new babies. W spent the week with her fam with the dog and both came back alive. I wasn't certain she would bring the dog back from MI but she did.

Wow did I learn a lot over break. I finally got to physically act out my pain and anger by bashing downed tree limbs on other tree trunks like something out of Braveheart with lots of swearing and such. I hadn't gotten to do that yet. It was good.

Ok so what did I learn. My anger at WW was tempered by starting to learn of her grievances against me during our M as she sees them: emotionally abusive and distant, objectified by my porn use, and lack of conversation. Yes, in some shade of the truth I did all of these things. I have really learned how I let her down in our M. It is a valuable lesson to have learned. I have also learned of how great her ENs are and how I don't think under even the best of sitchs I could have met them. She has very particular sets of circumstances for her to feel comfortable. While on the surface, she is kinda easy going, her deeper needs have to be met in very exacting ways.

In addition, I got to see a couple of other marital examples from the people I stayed with in MI. The love and admiration shared between H and W was beautiful as they freely complimented each other and I could tell that they would stand behind one another in all circumstances. I never felt that was the case with W. I also learned that I married W in part because it made me feel good to make her happy, but eventually the cost got too high. Also, I didn't know myself or my emotions back then. I couldn't even feel them. And most shocking to me of all, was that I didn't know what I didn't know. To me this is the most dangerous form of ignorance. I didn't know that I needed help or counsel or to learn how to be the kind of husband she needed.

Anyway, sum all this stuff up and I no longer feel desperate to save our M. Would it be the right thing to do...maybe. Would it be the best thing for me...not sure. We talked on Sunday night for 4 h and while we still both care for each other deeply and think highly of each other we are going to start seeking a divorce. We cried a lot and hugged as hurt friends might. She'd like to remain friends (a possibility) and maybe we'll be better friends than we were W and H. In spite of this in God's twisted ironic sense of humor, I am now better equipped to be her H than I have been in years.

She's gotten an apt and will start moving some stuff out soon. She says it's not about OM, I don't know or care much any more. I guess I'm at a point of surrender. Dv is going to be hell as a part of me is torn away, splitting up stuff is going to suck emotionally as well. Financially I'm in a sticky spot since as a grad student I make $200 more than mortgage and utilities per mo. From where I sit, the two most important things for me are dog and house. I could give all the other stuff up, but I want to hang onto these things. And they are kind of a package set, few apts will take an 80# lab. Yikes. I'm gonna have to work on this one.

Sorry this got so insanely long, guys. I guess I just had a lot to say. Yet, isn't it weird that the two of us care so much about each other's well being but are going to pursue Dv anyway? Maybe that is ok.

Keep up the good work guys.

Oh I forgot to add that I learned about myself...I was conflict avoiding and too acquiescent to her wishes that I lost myself in the process. I guess I was trying to make her happy all the time and could never figure out how to do it. Crazy. I now believe that there is someone out there who will love me just the crazy way that I am. I trust God to take care of me I know he will. I don't need to find her today or tomorrow. God will provide for me.

<small>[ January 07, 2004, 09:02 AM: Message edited by: Ridingtherollercoaster ]</small>

Awesome posts RTRC, very insightful.

It's scary because A LOT of what you've said has a striking resemblance to my situation. I can see a lot of what I feel about myself, what I learned, areas things went wrong in etc. in the same things you've expressed.

I'm going to start attending a Divorce Care group at my church starting next week. Not sure what to expect, but I'm just praying that God will use this class to further conform me, fix me, patch me up and heal me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yet, isn't it weird that the two of us care so much about each other's well being but are going to pursue Dv anyway? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is the irony of it all. Although a greater majority of D's end on a sour note, I think it's still tough to not reach deep down and still find some kind of consideration for the other person.

Ed
Since you see the similarities between us, what does the Dv road look like ahead? Anything I can/should prepare myself for? I'm heading to a lawyer in the next week.

Hope things are going well with you. I know things are tough.

Drawn out and frustrating. I was hoping to make it as quick and painless as possible, but after a while you tend to lose your patience.

We personally have had a lot of conflict avoidance so we haven't personally talked about a lot of things. I guess we'll figure it out through our lawyers.

We did actually talk about if she wanted to try to keep the house and buy out my 1/2 of it, but the communication with that has been very minimal.

I would gather up all financial info-
401k, stocks/options, bank statements, assets/liability info, car info such as if you own/owe and the amounts, house info etc.

Not sure what your situation is, but I would try to figure out what you want to do, what you want to keep, how you might want to split certain things etc. My case is fairly simple so there wasn't much to figure out, just have to get her to agree to it and sign the settlement agreement.

From the emotional standpoint, it is weird to finally be approaching the point when all ties will be severed. I've been waiting for this point in time ever since I made up my mind to file for a D and it's hard to believe it will be here soon. I feel for me, the bondage will finally be broken and the time to move on will truly be at hand.

Be prepared to have difference of opinions on things that you might think are reasonable.

RTRC- WW and I are both 27 with me turning 28 in may, married 6yrs, D-day 7/20/03.

Take care and feel free to ask me anything else you want.

Eduard

Ed
Thanks for the insights. Maybe we can take a bit of this discussion to email. My email address is rtrc4life1@yahoo.com.

Hope to hear from you soon.

Hi Guys,

From what I have been reading Eduard and RTRC are forging on with plans for D. I am still at the cusp. But I don't think I have the energy nor the desire to hope anymore. I have just kind of gone dormant as far as the marriage. Funny thing, since I have mentally let go, WW has been coming around more.

I have played this over in my mind 1000 times. I can't see her ever doing the things necessary to restore trust and affection. I know I sound like a broken record because I keep revisiting the same scene over and over again.

What I have started doing is like a Plan B, but it is for a different reason. I'm in a state right now where I can see her and not feel anything. She came in a few nights ago and I was doing bills, I hardly looked up and when I did it was like I was seeing some sort of decent looking middle aged acquintence. She was kind of perplexed looking as she left because I paid her not attention. I felt a little bad for her when she left. Don't know why I felt like that, but yet I didn't feel like I did anything wrong.

To night is my volleyball night, WW will be there too, she asked before she left if I was going, I said yes and got a lingering look from her. I think she feels a little alienated from the bunch now and was looking for me to ask me to go together. I don't want to do that. It decieves our friends into thinking we are reconciling.

I really feel for you two because you seem to feel at least something, especially RTRC, but the yet the D train just keep moving toward it's almost inevitable destination. I don't care if you feel anything or not, D is rough because of all the property and memorabiliea that has to be splilt up.

I am living for the day now. No pain or pleasure, no past or future, just today. Like you, I am leaving my future to God. I'll take what is offered by Him. Sorry to so lax about the future, but I don't yet have a plan to act on. All I have decided on is to put my life as straight as I can to prepare for whatever God has in story for my D and I and even my W. I no longer care enough to dislike even what she has done. So long for now.

Firebird
Sorry to hear about your pain, we all know there is plenty to go around. You sound numb, hurt, and depressed. Call a friend, go out for coffee, or exercise. I continue to pray for you and hope God will bring his comfort and peace.

Jer 29:11(?) For I know the plans I have for you says the Lord, plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you a future and a hope.

I meditate on this regularly and with the Psalms, God comforts me. I pray he will do the same for you.

Best wishes.