Last night was the most recent wave in a hurricane of pain lately.

Short synopsis: DDay of WW's 3 mo. long EA/PA on Sept 28, 1 wk later into Plan A; Oct 3 grandma #1 breaks hip and begins fatal 6wk long battle with brain cancer and died on Nov 13; Nov 6 grandma #2 diagnosed with breast cancer but looks like she'll be doing ok.

On DDay our LBs were both extremely low due to lack of attention to our relationship and individual shortcomings on my part. Plan A was short but the best I could give during grandma #1 medical crises. WW became a cake-eater and made minimal efforts toward reconciliation, she still feels very justified in the "new me". Well last night I got back from the out of state funeral and we talked about it, the impact on my folks, etc.

Then she asked if I had been thinking about us much lately. Of course, I said no because I had just buried a close grandma 2 days before and was overwhelmed with that let alone worrying about WW. Then she says she wants a divorce but wants to try out staying somewhere else for a few days of NC between us, but wants the door left open so she can come back if she doesn't like it. She's scared of divorce which keeps her on the fence but says she made this decision a long time ago. I told her it wasn't fair to me to have her coming and going as she was over the last month. Plan A wasn't great just the best I could do under the circumstances.

The sad part is I just feel empty, dead inside. I don't much care that she's leaving. I probably did Plan A too long and have minimal feelings for her. I think she's got a lot of guilt and just wants to walk away and with no kids its mostly just money and neither of us want to hurt the other anymore than possible. The dog could be sticky since she wants visitation rights and I may need support for it from time to time.

My questions beyond the need for emotional support here are: What is the divorce road ahead like, what can I expect to feel emotionally, can I prepare myself in anyway for all this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Ridingtherollercoaster:
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">RTRC - My hats off to you. You have been dealing with an encredible about of pain in a short period of time. It might have done in a lesser man. Sorry that you have the tragedy to deal with on top of marriage problems. I'm glad to hear that GM#2 is doing better.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Then she asked if I had been thinking about us much lately. Of course, I said no because I had just buried a close grandma 2 days before and was overwhelmed with that let alone worrying about WW. Then she says she wants a divorce but wants to try out staying somewhere else for a few days of NC between us, but wants the door left open so she can come back if she doesn't like it. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sounds to me like she is still in the FOG judging by her questions to you about thinking about the marriage when your GM just passed away.
And also thinking of her own issues and not what you are dealing with.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>The sad part is I just feel empty, dead inside. I don't much care that she's leaving. I probably did Plan A too long and have minimal feelings for her. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You have been through a lot and it was just circumstances that hurt your Plan A. I think you should continue it because I don't think W really wants a DV. She seems to be doing things to provoke you to pursue her more. Said she wants a DV to provoke a sense of urgency.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I think she's got a lot of guilt and just wants to walk away and with no kids its mostly just money and neither of us want to hurt the other anymore than possible. The dog could be sticky since she wants visitation rights and I may need support for it from time to time.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Visitation rights with the dog? Again it sounds like some kind of attempt to stay in contact with you so you won't be able to forget and go on with your life without her. She seems hurt and confused and may want forgiveness and a way back to you, though it may not be apparent to her yet.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>My questions beyond the need for emotional support here are: What is the divorce road ahead like, what can I expect to feel emotionally, can I prepare myself in anyway for all this. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">DV sucks big time. Even if you want out, there is a great sense of loss. I think it is worse than the death of a loved one, because your EX is still alive and it's hard to accept them with someone else. Everything in your life changes, sometime for the better but not for a long while, especially if the divorce was due to apathy and not abuse. I wouldn't do it unless I absolutely had to. You have read my sitch I think is closer to hopless than yours and I am still having a tough time coming to the dicision to DV. This is my second marriage and I dread what's ahead if we DV.

Only you know how bad it is, but from where I'm sitting it seems like you shouldn't be giving up yet. Give yourselves time, if you still want the DV then do it. But in the mean time I would say that you are sorry about the unfortunate circumstances, that you had no control over, the last few months. Tell her you love her and want her in your life and you'll make her happy she gave you the chance to prove it. Sounds like she wants to be loved. She may be fence sitting because she is doubtful about your wanting her and doesn't want to give up OM and then have you reject her. At least that what it appears to me.

PS
Get His Needs / Her Needs book or better yet the tapes and listen to them and see if she will too.

Firebird
Thank you so much for the perspective. I have read about your situation and it sounds pretty tough. I hope God gives you the strength to get through it.

I'd love to do a little more Plan A but don't know if there is any more left to give. I'm trying to grieve for G-ma and then I get home and WW lights a new fire for me to extinguish. Seems like every 3 days some new bad thing happens...Saturday/Sunday should be interesting. She's staying at a friends for a while but doesn't want to get a place of her own, just to try this separation thing out. And I'm left holding the bag.

I read all of SAA and she read about 80 pages then stopped. I've read 75% of Torn Asunder and then stopped because of all the other stuff, too much time driving and crying to read or focus enough to process. She's pretty happy with where she's at and why not young attractive financially independent woman spreading her wings and learning about the big city, discovering herself. She wants NC for a while so Plan A if I can muster it will be hard to come by.

Thanks again for your encouragement and the headsup on Dv sucking. We'll both have to give this some serious thought, but I'm worried she's not thinking anymore. She has said more than once she just wants out and is willing to leave her legal portion of our belongings behind. Lots a guilt.

Thanks again.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Ridingtherollercoaster:
<strong>
I'd love to do a little more Plan A but don't know if there is any more left to give......

...... She wants NC for a while so Plan A if I can muster it will be hard to come by.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">RTRC: Plan A not doing it for you? You just gotta visit this site! I like the approach. In a nutshell, as long as you're chasing them they keep running. I can't really explain everything about it, but it's worth a look. I just found it this morning because of someone else's thread here on MB.

Divorce Busting

Your W''s friends want and think they are helping your W end her pain by sympathizing with her. Of course you DON'T try to point this out to her. It will be another reason for her to dislike you. If your W thinks she has a lot of guilt now and wants to run away from the marriage rather than fix it, she is in for a super dose of guilt and remorse if she gets her DV. There will be repercussions for years for her. She will probably get kicked around by life if she does get what she thinks is going to end all of her pain.

I know your love for your W is real or you wouldn't be enduring all this pain to save you marriage. Maybe holding off a little and letting her stew without you doing any LBing or trying to educated her with books might work better (no pressure, no demands, no needs, no anger or frustration on your part). Go to the link about Divorce Busting and let me know what you think.

Riding-

You've got a lot on your plate at this moment and your emotions are a lot more up and down then they'd normally be with just a WW to deal with.

I would think it'd be hard to figure out what you're feeling and whom to attribute it to. So it would do you good to just step back from the WW issue for a little while and take a deep breath.

I can't imagine having to deal with the health issues of family on top of trying to fix/save a M. Pray pray and pray some more.

Riding – I don’t know that divorce always sucks. I’m not divorced yet, but I LOVE being separated. When the pain has be intolerable, divorce isn’t so bad.

That said, marriage is usually a vow for life. People have a lot invested in marriage relationships even without children. It is preferable not to get divorced. I disagree over a longer Plan A. If your love bank really is empty, you’ll need to move to Plan B. Plan B is not a separation on her terms. It is a separation on your terms. Terms always include ceasing to see the Other Person and a commitment to the recovery process. If she doesn’t like it, she doesn’t get to come back.

A second approach is the controlled separation developed by Lee Raffel. Her book is called Should I Stay or Should I Go? How a controlled separation can save your marriage. Not all of the marriages she uses as case studies survive, but the parties walk away with less pain and angst. She also has a high success rate among those she counsels.

Separation does not need to be the end.

One thing to prepare for in advance in case your wife files. The bank. If you have joint accounts, some money out now and open your own account. The first one to the bank wins in the game of separation or divorce. Too many people go to sleep with $700 in their checking account, then find out they have a balance of $10. And you can be totally honest after you’ve done this. Explain that you feel you have to protect yourself until she decides what she wants.

Thank you all for you advice and sympathy. My head has been spinning for so long I can't imagine living a "normal" crisis-free life again.

Saturday, I talked to WW and indicated that I was beginning Plan B and the reasons for it. (I was very hurt on Wed last week when I returned from the funeral and within 2 h she was wanting to talk about us, continuing our separation by her continuing to stay with friends, her counseling session, and her desire for divorce. Her thinking is still all me, Me, ME-oriented and is unwilling to give me sympathy or support while greiving for grandma.)

Anyway, I indicated that while still have some feelings of love for her I need to protect those feelings and myself from her selfishness and won't be able to have any further contact with her until 1. NC ever with OM; 2. Desire to work on our M. She went legalistic on me citing how she owned part of the house and had visitation rights with the dog.

So I have ended up with a modified Plan B but still with NC between us: Modified in this way: I have to work 12 h (too long for dog to be couped up) on Monday so WW is going to come take care of and play with the dog on Monday evenings, though I said I could get the neighbors to help out. WW was pushing for another day as well but I don't really want to give it. WW also strangely wants to do laundry on occasions at our house when I'm not there and feels she has legal rights of ownership to do so. She's probably correct.

My questions are : Am I helping/hurting situation by allowing dog visitation and laundry rights while I'm gone for holidays? Should she be able to stay in OUR house during holidays while I'm away since this will maintain NC between us. Does Plan B really mean kicking her out of the house and don't come back at all until NC with OM and seeking marriage?

Thanks for your support and guidance.

Riding you have to keep in mind that the vast majority of fence sitting WS's HATE Plan B because it takes away their power to control the BS. WW's in particular loath Plan B's no contact rule because they want to have the right to communicate with you even if its just to chew you out.

I suggest that you contact an attorney and find out what your legal options are and then proceed from there. In some States, the spouse that files for a legal separation often gets to stay in the house while denying the other spouse of the same benefit. If your State is one of those that allows for that, then you may want to take advantage of it because then your Plan B would have legal legs to stand on.

Keep us posted.

Hi-I feel your pain as I have been in a similar situation that really seemed hopeless. As long as you have ANY inkling that your wife is still in contact with her OM I would stay in Plan B. Since you don't have kids you have an advantage there in how you can enforce it.In the long run if you reconcile your wife will admire how you stuck to your boundaries( though she will hate it now and blame you for everything!) and you will preserve your self-respect in case you reconcile. Expect your W to waver alot and if she's like my H she will secretly be in contact on and off with OM for awhile.Is he a coworker? If so it will make no contact even harder between them. My H"s OW was a single coworker who was promoted and relocated to another state and STILL came back on weekends to re-fuel their affair during our separation. My H did not 'wake up' until OW pressured him to file for D and I was served with the papers.At that time I told H I was completely against divorce morally and spiritually and that I would never agree to it so he could expect a long drawn out case if he insisted on it. I said this calmly and refused to fight with him. After he broke off the A for good he went thru a several month depression which he had to work thru on his own before joint counseling did any good for us. I had to just give him his space for awhile and wait it all out. If your W moves out and then wants to move back in be sure you are both in counseling for several sessions beforehand- otherwise she will be there in body only and not in spirit. Have you read the book Divorce Remedy by Michele Weiner-Davis? It has good strategy advice to follow in it. Her site divorcebusting.com also has a forum to post on that includes the category- walk-away-wives. Take care!

LIM
Your words give me hope even in times when there is no evidence to suggest that I should have some hope. Having that self-respect is important in times when even self-worth is so deeply questioned. Thanks on the heads up on several counseling sessions before allowing her back. I hadn't really come up with a plan if she said she wanted to come back tomorrow. I was naive to believe that when/if she comes back it would be for real only and not some sort of bluff. By the way, OM lives 250 mi away so for them to have daily contact they have to seek it.

Plan B day 4...and the holidays are just around the corner. The holidays are going to be messy at our house, and I've heard that my father in law doesn't understand why I just come over for Thanksgiving. I'm writing a letter to her family to explain my Plan A/Plan B actions, otherwise coming from her I don't think they would understand.

Any suggestions on how to ease the pain of the waiting game? And how long can/should I wait? It's a tough life. Thanks all.

<small>[ November 25, 2003, 08:50 AM: Message edited by: Ridingtherollercoaster ]</small>

Hi again- Just wanted to share a few more thoughts from my own experience with this. Realize that an EA/PA is the hardest type of affair to break up and recover from- like my pastor told me "Think of your spouse as temporarily insane!" The denial and justification the WS develops to justify their affair causes incredible pain and anxiety for the betrayed spouse. Believe me when I say that in my situation I was doing battle with the devil himself! My H would go to early church every wk with me and our 3 kids for MONTHS and then drop us off at home and head on over to OW"s condo saying he was going to the gym! Talk about denial! I think he actually began to believe his own made up stories! Because of the severity of this type of A your Plan B needs to be firm and you need PATIENCE PATIENCE PATIENCE! It is not uncommon for it to take 4-6 wks in Plan B before a WS starts to reconsider their path. Because at first they will proclaim YOU MADE ME MOVE OUT!!! and they'll rush to the affair partner with even more vim and vigor than before! This is to be expected- eventually though the rushing together part will start to wear on the WS and they will be forced to have ALL their needs met by the affair partner. Over time the light of day begins to show up under their doorstep so to speak. In my situation OW insisted H not sleep with me as long as she was with H so I ended up going 8 mo with no intimacy- even kissing! Yet later on after H's depression was worked thru we had a renewal period even better than I could have expected. So patience is a key thing during this.You might want to read the book "Hope for the separated" Its by a Christian author. Also "Love Must be Tough'' by James Dobson gives case stories of how following Plan B led to reconciliations- you might need this for more inspiration! There is hope!

LIM;
Great post. RTRC and I have followed each others sitchs closely. Your advice to him works equally well for me.

Thanksgiving was pretty empty this year. It was more like a long weekend than a holiday. Our small family was without Grandma for the first time and without WW as well. Sister and H decided not drive again this weekend so it was a small observance with the fam. We made the most of it though. I made sure my remaining grandparents and folks know I love them and that they are amazingly valuable to me.

As for WW, still in Plan B, day 9. The NC is not as hard to enforce on her as I'd expected based on reading post around here. I guess that is a product of our apathy for the relationship and her desire to go. Driving home last night, I secretly hoped she would be home but the house was dark and cold when I got there.

Others have said Patience, Patience...and it's pretty hard, but the stability of having WW gone is worth it I guess, while doing all this other greiving.

I'm trying to bring myself closer to God and see what He wants me to be learning right now. I've spent some time just surviving that I haven't had my ears open to his voice.

If you've read this, you can see my confusions. Sorry, but thanks for reading.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Ridingtherollercoaster:
<strong> Thanksgiving was pretty empty this year. It was more like a long weekend than a holiday. Our small family was without Grandma for the first time and without WW as well. Sister and H decided not drive again this weekend so it was a small observance with the fam. We made the most of it though. I made sure my remaining grandparents and folks know I love them and that they are amazingly valuable to me.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm glad you have family. They have made all the difference for me. So many times the thought of my WW having a good time while I was all alone would get to me. A call to a relative; an invitation to come over and I wasn't alone. It didn't fill the void completely, but it was very comforting.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>As for WW, still in Plan B, day 9. The NC is not as hard to enforce on her as I'd expected based on reading post around here. I guess that is a product of our apathy for the relationship and her desire to go. Driving home last night, I secretly hoped she would be home but the house was dark and cold when I got there.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are doing great RTRC. The early days of Plan B were the toughest for me because the wounds were still fresh. But after insulating myself from my WW's activities, it seemed to be less painful. And too I was filled with hope because I am doing something that could well bring success to my reconciliation.

I don't know if Plan B is always right for everyone but I believe it is right for your sitch.

Continued, strength, courage and wisdom to you.