My issue is that Xhusband comes over here and uses my house as his house. I talked to him tonight about this. Wanting to express that I get upset with him over this. I told him just for him being here is hard for me. I expressed that it hurts in my heart that when he is here it hurts too much. But I don't think he heard me. I feel he didn't listen to me. He went on to say is that all he has heard for years that I was unhappy and he doesn't understand the disconnect that I expressed that I haven't had time to do. I told him to read stories about disconnecting here on MB, and he said he doesn't want to read them here. He wants to hear my story of disconnect. I tried but with to avail. My story is old. Many of you told me to change the locks and to tell him NO, and get a PPO. Well, he told me today that he feels he has the right to be here, and that he doesn't have a place to have the kids over. He lives with his mother, and that it isn't the same. I can't help that, he is the one that decided to have an affair. He is the one who decided to physically abuse me. He is the one who wanted the divorce. And once again I feel he didn't listen to my words tonight. I stayed away from him as much as possible tonight. I made a dinner for the kids and I and once again he didn't ask if he could have dinner. He said he feels he doesn't have to ask. Yes, I did ask him to bring a gallon of milk and a loaf of bread, since I didn't have any. I only have $0.89 cents left on my Bridge card for Food stamps for this month. The Bridge card reduced the food for just myself and my one son from one adult and 4 dependents. So now I get $312 a month for food <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> . I asked him tonight, to be respectful and please ask if he could have some dinner. I also said I would appreciate if he would just call to ask permission to come over. But once again he said no that he doesn't feel he has to ask permission to come over and see his kids. He said if the kids weren't here, he wouldn't be here. So I brought up the topic of what if I was to bring a boyfriend over. He right then said, so do you have someone? I said no, of course not. But I said what if I invited a boyfriend to come over? He said, then he would make other arrangements. I feel like I am being used again? Is this normal to feel this way? There seems to be very little respect towards me, and hasn't been for the last 3 years. Since he started his affair, and after, I have had to ask him over and over to please consider my feelings. Tonight, the conversation seemed to be surrounding his feelings and his wants again.

He doesn't seem to see the pain he causes my heart. I still have a connection, and of course he has nothing towards me. He shows nothing at all. I am hurting deep inside, cause I feel like my words were hitting a brick wall tonight, and are bouncing back at me. Why can't I get through to him that I haven't had the opportunity to disconnect, I had to deal with my fathers grave illness of cancer and his eventual death. I didn't get to mourn for my father the way I should of, and now I am starting to mourn for my fathers death. Which is sad after a 1 1/2 years, I am learning to mourn. The pain of my husbands affair, the lies, the deceit and my father. He tells me again tonight, since I didn't get one paycheck while working for him fulltime since 1990 that it shouldn't matter. And how that not receiving a paycheck shouldn't hurt me, he tells me. It does hurt my Social security. I tried expressing to him that what am I to put down on paper, that I worked for my husband and he didn't give me a paycheck. Yes, he makes around $80,000 a year. And I am to survive on $15,000. No paycheck for all the years I worked and many days, 20 hours a day. I worked weekends, while taking care of the kids, family, finances, books, and all. Not once did he say words of compassion, empathy and say, yeah he screwed up and should of given me a paycheck. Not once, once again, it was all put back in my lap. I gave him evidence of friends that he has paid his wife since he started the business a paycheck every week. He of course puts it in different perspective, and says our situation was different.

WEll, I am crying, my heart out now. I hurt so much again tonight. Why doesn't he just say, yes, he lied, he deceited me, he committed adultery, he should of given me a paycheck, he should of thought of my future more, he should of not physically abused me. He can go out anywhere and make $80,000 a year just like that doing airconditioning and heating. What have I got, nothing. I worked for my husband that dumped me like that. I worked for my husband and have nothing to show for what I did. I have no proof. I have nothing to offer to anyone out there. Does he see this, nope, never well. He went into the same old scenaro, that I can go out and get any job I want. I am a old woman of 53 years old. The market isn't exactly calling out to women of 53 years age, and with pain. I have no job skills to offer at this time. I am still physically injured by my husband, and he did not once say to me tonight, that he was sorry that I am still suffering. I told him tonight that I have to have a EMG, MRI and a possible CAT SCAN. I take anti-spasm pills still and on anti-depressants. But he doesn't see any of that. He just sees what he has. That is what I felt I saw in him tonight. I felt he didn't listen to me. I even told him to read things that others have written here on MB. And stated you are not listening to me. Besides he cuts my sentences off repeadedly. What is it going to take to have him sit down and listen to what I have to say and how I am feelings?

I wanted to sit and have a decent talk about my feelings of him being here and how it hurts deep inside. But I feel he didn't hear any of that. He went on Just why should I be hurting, why haven't I disconnected, why can't I just get a job. Etc. Etc. No signs of him saying I am sorry, I am sorry that you are hurting, I am sorry that you still haven't disconnected. I did not hear, I will give you time, ask me what you want. Not once did I hear those words. It was again, all about him. That this is his house that he built, yes we BOTH built it. His money went into this house, and I guess I answered the phone and took calls and took care of everything else, and it was for nothing.

You know, it is times like this, that he should just shoot me. He should just before he pulls the trigger have his say and call me my nickname (fu*king b*tch) and then I will be gone and he can have everything. Just so darn depressed, and I tried, really hard today, to express myself, but he didn't want to listen to what I had to say. So back in the dumps and just so sick of this sh*tty life.

Would you guys tell him, would you guys express to him what he is doing to me? Maybe he will listen to you, he doesn't listen to what I have to say? And it hurts so bad! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Faith4Me - Let me get this straight, again, for the "umpteenth time," ....you are divorced and you ALLOW your husband access to your home "as if it were his own home" and you allow him continue to treat you with disrespect and condescencion?

Faith, isn't it way past the time when you should be "putting your foot down?" Change all the locks, refuse all contact with him, etc. HE wants that single life (with his mama or his OW if she can still stomach his controlling nature), so let him have it. YOU lock him out of your house and your life and get on with your own life.

You consider yourself a Christian and you are allowing someone to willfully sin against you. Christ "endorses" righteous anger, as in His clearing of the Temple, when it is directed at willful sin. You DO NOT tolerate willful sin out of some warped idea that God wants you "turn the other cheek." That is NOT understanding what God teaches and "twisting" biblical truth so that sin is allowed to "flourish."

Faith, SNL, LA, and his current nom del plume sufdb, have NOT changed one iota. You, too, have not changed much. I see some progress, but you are taking a painfully slow path and continue to "tolerate" his behavior and then run here to "complain about it." That's fine if you want to vent.

But if you want actual change, then YOU must change and do things that you don't feel comfortable with, but that are necessary. LOCK the doors and keep the divorced adulterer OUT OF YOUR LIFE. The only exception to that would be if he were exhibiting any indication of remorse and a willingness to humbly submit to God in obedience to His commands. I don't see that attitude, and you have not seen that attitude. So just what is it that you are waiting for that "justifies" your continuing role as "doormat?"

These are the things I could easily assume over the past two+ years that I have been reading here:
1. Your husband gets pleasure from hurting and offending you.
2. He likes to be perceived as intelligent and feeds off mentally baiting you so that he can feel superior.
3. He's an abuser to the core - it doesn't matter that he wasn't this way when you met him; this is who he is now and he enjoys being this way.
4. Your lack of boundaries, asking him to respect you, asking him to stay out of your house but doing nothing to back it up just tell him that he's getting to you, which gives him pleasure.

Faith, it's time to stop feeding the beast. I'm not talking about the food; that costs you very little compared to what it costs you to feed his evil appetite for abusing you.

Unless you are happy delighting Satan, you will change the locks today and get a restraining order. Then sue for civil damages and get at least the money from selling the house in Arizona. It's time to be wise like Jesus taught us to be wise. (Read the parable of the servant who was about to be fired sometime.)

Oh, Faith (sigh) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I have searched out your past posts and read the excellent advice you have just received from Forever and KA.

Your problems are largely your own responsibility now. You are divorced. You are letting, yes, allowing this man (if I can give him that much credit) to do this to you. He is using you now just like he did in marriage for his own gain. He can only do this to you because you are allowing it.

One of my favorite sayings:
If you don't like getting what you get, stop doing what you do.

I am learning the hard way just like you, but I did learn. I gave into my WW thinking that she would take pity on me an stop hurting me. That just made it worse. When you don't demand respect and tolerate abuse of any kind, your tormentor looses more and more respect for you and instead of pitying you and stopping, they do more because they enjoy hurting you and actually end up despising you. To them you are less than human, like a cowering dog. They kick you just for laughs and to feel superior.

You have to start to standing up for yourself. It is the only thing that will help your self esteem and get the respect and consideration you want. There is no way you can charm this bully into being kind to you.

Your kids are big enough to go see him if they want to. He NEVER has to come to visit you. He is too heartless to come over to visit them, he came to emotionally kick you around for his own recreation. And as hard as it may be, you have to stop depending on this jerk. He will continue to use your dependancy against you.

I quit groveling in front of my WW. She has noticed and began to do a little groveling herself. You don't have to be nasty, just accept nothing less than total respect. If you don't get it, blow him off, don't respond to anything he wants or ask for until he treats you the way you want.

Are there consequences? Yes, you will have to do more for yourself, but you won't believe how good you are going to feel about yourself and the things you can accomplish once your self confidence comes back and you can rely on yourself.

Another saying in a book I read: "The more you need it, the less you are going to get it." It's not fair but life is just like that. Quite being needy and make it your life's work to be strong and and self reliant. Others are drawn to winners, not loosers. I know you're not a looser. Don't let this man make you believe you are. Start taking baby steps to do for yourself. You'll fall in love with youself and others will too, including your kids.

F4M,
If you were healthy, you would feel that getting it off your chest would be enough for you, but it isn't. You are still waiting for him to acknowledge responsibility - which will not occur in the near future.
You need to heal yourself, and learn to forgive - without his input.
And for God's sakes, finally change those DAMN locks. The first time one of your kids lets him in, take their key and tell them to live with him.

Good Luck.

Dr. Phil says "we teach people how to treat us."

Now some are abusers, chronic abusers as my xh and yours. And that's where we have to recondition them.

That means boundaries.

Means that they get no contact and stiff penalties if they continue abuse. Means they answer to the law even if necessary ok?

You must get the r.o. and stop his harassment and abuse. You divorced so that you could begin separate lives. And he treats you like a doormat.

I know my x is shacked up and today got an email trying to "be nice" and let me have son so that I can leave on wednesday for my family in Alabama rather than do the switch early on thanksgiving. He has LEARNED that I shall not deal with him nor his abuse anymore and that the only way to deal with me is about specifics. That I only deal with him about my son specifically and what is best for son only. He knows I do not approve of his lifestyle and his mistress and until the day he changes, even if it's never, I will have nothing personally to do with him until he finds God. That's the way it is. Call me hardline or whatever. I had to GET THAT WAY TO HEAL.

Whatever it takes for you to draw the line, do it now.

You've gotten good advice and now it's time to save yourself. Save the kids. Do you WANT YOUR SON TO GROW UP AND TREAT HIS WIFE THIS WAY? I don't think so.

And a woman of faith is TOUGH...VERY TOUGH MY FRIEND. The doormat approach of turning the other cheek isnt applicable here. It's more of a principle than something to operate under every day. You gotta stand up for what's right or you're gonna lose your sanity.

He's gone. He's mia. That's what is. He will NOT HEAR YOU NOR YOUR FEELINGS OK? He is not wanting to and you're pleading with him will probably do more to REINFORCE HIS NEGATIVE BEHAVIOR. He's getting a REACTION OUTTA YOU AND HE LIKES IT. What do controllers and abusers not like? Nothing. Hate nothing. Hate no reaction. It's the opposite of love. Not hate, but indifference.

Keep praying for him but don't pray for reconciliation. I left that up to God. I know God's will was for us not to divorce, but my x is living so far outta His will that it's sick. I'm not bound to that man while he's living like a playboy with a knocked up lingerie model. It is absolutely sickening and I want nothing to do with it.

He has tried unsuccessfully to get me to go back to work for him promising I could make triple my income now possibly. That's not getting it either. I responded then back saying "well then why don't you just use this huge income generated you claim you don't have to triple our child support or alimony."

Have him arrested or get an ro. Let his mistresses bail him out. Let his momma bail him out. Let him answer to somebody else. He cares what others think because he hasn't shown his true colors to the rest of the world and thinks they are fooled too. My xh had to be arrested and spend the night in jail like a common criminal, which he is, to get it. And he was still bad for a while. Heck who wouldn't be angry if they found out their ho is preggo and forcing their hand to get married when the divorce papers aren't even signed yet. I'd be mad too.

It's not about HIM anymore. He's the X. It's about you now. It's caketime for you and the kids. Get that straight now. It's time to put your ducks in a row and get healthy and cut off all ties with him if you want to survive. File whatever charges are necessary and get the support papers going as well. If he isn't paying maybe he's lying to uncle sam too. I say call the IRS if he doesn't comply. Let him answer to the good Uncle...lol...

I got tough. You have to now. I feel alot better btw. I have become someone I admmire. Somebody better than I was two years ago when the hell began raining down on my life. I am a woman of worth and substance and faith. YOu are too. Quit selling yourself and the kids short.

No one, no one has lived with a man like this man. Yes, you all know who he is just by your statements. I do fear for he uses the kids against me. Yes, I realize he is pushing my buttons and doing it with ease, and controlling the one he has controlled most of the marriage.

I went to counseling this morning and discussed the situation with Amy. She has stated much of what you all have stated. He is using control to manipulate me, and then tonight he did the same senario. Stated to me that he won't come over for thanksgiving. More of the little boy who doesn't get what he wants, and sets a temper tantrum. This man is good at manipulating, good at using his control to get what he wants.

I am getting more and more confused, and depressed again. I was moving ahead, and it is situations like this that puts me really down.

Amy did suggest that he and I go to counseling to set the divorce situation on track. I obviously have abided to the rules, and he hasn't. STating to me once again, he will do what he wants. I have, like I stated before, asked for respect from him to enter this house. To call before coming, to ask if he can have dinner when there is food left over. But he said, he won't do it, and doesn't feel he has to. Amy made this statement, and it could seem that xhusband wants to be married to me. Could dive more into this, but it came at the end of the session, and we are going to get more into it next Monday. She said what happened last night, could be he seems to be unsure of himself. He knows that I am very good at getting things done, and seems to be unsure of himself. Like he needs a hand to guide him. She thinks he wants me to take his hand, but using strategy to prevent me from wanting to take his hand. Therefore his one side wants me to take his hand. The signs are there. He is fighting a battle inside of himself. Hard to understand, since he conflicts with his theory here on MB. I did express to Amy that I think he is very mixed up mentally. That I feel he does need antidepressants and feel he is taken by Satan.

I needed to vent here, cause this man gets me so down, and the want to live just divebombs. This man is irrational, and twists words around. Like many of you have seen in his threads.

I have been crying most of the day, trying to get my emotions under control. Just trying to express myself to him, and then he twists things around at me, just so much of this that one human can take. He seems to be taken by Satan, so immensely. That it scares me! I didn't marry a man with such shallow God beliefs.

We talked about religion. And I asked if he reads the bible, he stated no, I asked if he does fellowship, he said no, I asked if he attends church, he said no. I asked if he believed in God. He said yes. I really am searching for answers.

This holiday was suppose to be a holiday much easier than last year. The way things are going, it is going to be worse.

Also, xhusband stated to me he will always live with his mom. That his mom needs him to take care of her. His mother is doing fine, he has caused great amount of stress on her. And of course, he states to her that it is because of her, but never of him. More of the control mechanism.

I have talked about him to the police department a few weeks ago, according to the First STep remedy. I am to talk to them again this week if I find the time and if not next week. Cause something needs to be clarified. Just a source of protecting myself.

I hate living like this. Always out to protect myself from the man I love. That is what hurts, that is what kills me, and my love. He doesn't have to protect himself from me, I haven't done anything to deny him. But he for the first thing didn't even have the courtesy to sign the damn paperwork and get it in on time so I could get alimony and childsupport. Supposedly that was done Wed. and I had to fill out the paperwork. Cause he just couldn't get around to it. All for the words here on MB that he will take care of me financially, emotionally, and physically. Which is old words by now. The true him came out. Yeah, he makes the same damn excuse that he is not good at paperwork. WEll, if he is not good at paperwork, maybe he should of hired someone to do it. And it was totally easy, 2 easy pages to fill uot.

Just my way of venting, cause I hate to see what he writes here, and professes to be of intellect and knowledge. Why doesn't he do the things he tells others to do. Like he said to someone that when they suspect an affair hire a detective, and etc. I did that, and boy did x go ballistic. I did it for his protection, more so than mine, cuase I cared, and wanted to know who was screwing around with my husband. And as it turns out, she is one poor case of a woman.

He tells people here some good advice. But did he do it, nope. Did he follow through with MB principles, No. So, he contradicts himself.

Just hurting and wanting to get away from all this suffering and pain. Yep, I am in pain, the cold has hit, and it is making my shoulder and back miserable. Going to take a long..... hot bubble bath. Maybe I will feel better later.

I wish, I could have someone take my hand, and hold me for awhile. I need a hug, I need a shoulder to cry on. I need someone to love me. I hate how my xhusband tells me repeadedly, we never got along. Like it is all my fault. Anyways, better go, just on a crying binge again, and I am going to soak.

Would someone here like to come to my house, and meet him? I wish someone here would come and see for themselves what he is like in real? Then maybe you all would believe me. Believe how this man treats me and talks to me.

Again Faith I am sorry but you did not heed any of the advice given to you, you did not listen to what these fine people had to say to you!!!

How many more times do you think they are going to jump on here to help you? To offer you the support and advice that you want and need.

I don't mean to be harsh, but do something for yourself!!!

Dawn <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We talked about religion. And I asked if he reads the bible, he stated no, I asked if he does fellowship, he said no, I asked if he attends church, he said no. I asked if he believed in God. He said yes. I really am searching for answers. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">First things first, as the saying goes....

(((((Faith4Me))))) Just a little hug from God to you. You ARE loved....and now you need to accept that love, turn your problems over to God (not forget them), and let God direct the dealing with those problems as you trust in His faithfulness and love.

As for your husband, he has this power over you because you let him have it. I suspect that you do so for a variety of reasons, but one of them is that you believe you still love him in spite of everything that he has done to you. Faith4Me, that love is good but your application of "loving principles" is where you are going astray. You really need to get James Dobson's book "Tough Love" and read it. Love does NOT allow destructive behavior when it impacts you. God loves you, but He will not "save you from yourself" if you choose to sin and not follow Him in obedience. That is exactly what God is doing with your husband and what He is doing with you.

God does NOT tolerate willful sin. Jesus cleared the temple because of willful sin that perverted God's commands. No apologies are necessary when you are "standing up for God." You may love the person, but you can "hate" the sin and not tolerate it, especially when tolerating it means going against God's commands.

Yes, I believe I know quite well who your husband is (at least his current "incarnation") on the system. I don't understand why you are so reluctant to simply state who he is though. It's as if you want to allow him to "appear" as an "angel of light" and don't think that there are any potential negative consequences for allowing him to deceive others on the system. He constantly spars with me and claims the "higher ground" of leaving discussions of obedience to God up to me and other Christians on the system while he feels "called or compelled" to offer only humanistic based reasoning with no correlation to Scripture. Since I try to stand for Christ, regardless of his protestations (I remember well his and my discussions when he was masquerading as LurkingAbout), it does not bother me what he thinks. I AM concerned about the potential impact that he might have on other Christians who are most vulnerable while they are hurting and trying to repair the damage caused by infidelity.

Faith, it is way past time that you "wake up and smell the roses." I know that this is difficult for you but you have to realize that the chances are very good that your husband is not, and never has been, a Christian. Remember the biblical admonition, "Faith without works is dead." He does nothing one would expect from someone who truly loves Christ and has Christ as his Lord and Savior. Forgive me for this, but this question and statement should tell you how far from God your husband really is: " I asked if he believed in God. He said yes."

Faith there are many, including Satan, who "believe" in God. Satan knows full well who God is, who Christ is, but will not surrender his will to God. Satan, like your husband, masquerades as an "angel of light" when, in fact, they have the same god....themselves. "Belief" that God exists is not enough. There is only one way to be saved, and that is through accepting Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior. There IS no other way.

Faith, no one who is a true "born-again" believer acts like your husband does. It is anathema to God and to a person who has surrendered their life to God. The fact that you have accepted Christ is something that appears to me that your husband likes to exploit for his advantage. He knows enough about what a "Christian" is supposed to do (i.e. forgivness, tolerance, 'turning the other cheek', etc.) to allow him to run roughshod over you (and everyone else in his way) and to try to make you feel guilty. That is MANIPULATION. Remember Faith, his screaming "mantra" is against "manipulation!" Why? So he can "protect" himself from anyone who would dare to "call" him on his aberrant behavior and unsound reasoning.

Faith, standing up for God's principles and commands is NOT manipulating someone. It is establishing and enforcing your OWN boundaries. Remember Faith, BOUNDARIES are those things that YOU WILL NOT ALLOW SOMEONE ELSE TO DO TO YOU. STANDARDS are those things that you will not allow yourself to do to others.

Think about those things in two ways. First, how they affect you and what you will allow and what you will do. Second, how your husband uses them to his own advantage. His "boundary" (or at least one of them) is that he will not allow anyone to tell him he is wrong about anything. His reaction to such an occurance is to belittle, demean, attack, get angry....all designed to manipulate a response from you or anyone else. His "standards" (at least one of them) are seen in his "do as I say, not as I act" rationale for his postings and his interactions with you and his mother, and probably everyone else he comes in contact with. He thinks that "whatever he feels is good for him" is justification for sin and sinful behavior. He has as a "standard" for himself, "the ends justify the means."

Faith, are you in counseling with a good fundamental pastor? You appear to need far more help with how to live a Christian life and how to dealt with subtle, and not so subtle, attacks of Satan. If you are not in such counseling, please add that immediately to your list of "must do's". This system is much too cumbersome to be able to effectively deal with things like that. You need the interaction with a live person, face to face, to discuss these things at length and in depth. Learning to live for Christ is a process, especially if you don't understand what "walking with God" means in all of it's aspects.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wish, I could have someone take my hand, and hold me for awhile. I need a hug, I need a shoulder to cry on. I need someone to love me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Faith, Jesus stands ready to take your hand and hold you for as long as you need. He offers His shoulder and will hug you for as long as you need. BUT, you have to take His offer. He stands there waiting for you. He stands there waiting for you understand that His promise in Philippians 4:13 is real: "I can do ALL things THROUGH Christ who stengthens me." It is HIS promise to all believers who will allow Him to help them. As with all offered help, only the recipient of that help can decide to reach out and take the proffered help. You must CHOOSE to take the help because it will not be force upon you. Remember Faith, God is not interested in pious platitudes or statements of faith. God wants ACTION! God wants you to CHOOSE and to ACT in accordance with His commands and promises.

If, in the meantime, you need a shoulder to cry on, you can use my shoulder. But I am a very poor substitute for Christ. His shoulders are immensely bigger and better than mine.

God bless and make today the day that you finally decide to "stand for Jesus" regardless of what your ex-husband, or anyone else, thinks or says.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Faith4me:
<strong> No one, no one has lived with a man like this man. Yes, you all know who he is just by your statements. I do fear for he uses the kids against me. Yes, I realize he is pushing my buttons and doing it with ease, and controlling the one he has controlled most of the marriage.

Would someone here like to come to my house, and meet him? I wish someone here would come and see for themselves what he is like in real? Then maybe you all would believe me. Believe how this man treats me and talks to me. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Faith4Me, no one is disputing the man who invades your life and who delights and pleasures in pscyhologically torturing you. Why do you wonder or doubt that we believe you? I am baffled. Have you not read what we have written?

To me, the man he is now - not the man you fell in love with or love to this day, but the man he has chosen to become of his own free will - is sadistically evil. If he had even a particle of decency, your medical bills would have been paid in full, your house would not need repairing and your space would not be invaded by this evil tormentor. I have absolutely no desire to meet this inhumane human being. He ranks up there on the same pscyhological profile as Hitler - smaller numbers, but still souls are stolen.

He will not turn, he will not listen, because he has given his soul up to evil and he takes pleasure in the game he plays of power and control.

Faith - this will be my last post to you. I feel for you. My heart goes out to you. But for you to have written and implied that we don't believe you or understand you tells me that I'm wasting my fingers because you won't read it and you don't believe me.

God bless you. I pray that God heals your heart and mind and your wounded spirit soon so that you can live.

Please please please faith. Realize that God doesn't make us endure anything like cruelty or adultery in marriage. He has allowed us to not be bound in such circumstances.

NOt all decisions are based on faith and this one even if you didn't believe at all or if your x didn't believe is irrelelvant because your answer to the situation still remains the same...You gotta get away from this guy, this creep and start putting some healthy boundaries in place and stop this stuff...the crying the moping and the blaming and pleading with your x.

And whoever this Amy counseling person is, she's causing you some harm I feel emotionally be even bringing up the false hope of reconciliation. Nothing should ever be implied on behalf of a former spouse who doesn't see the same counselor and who's behaviors show imho, that he doesn't want to do anything except control you and abuse you.

That's a far, far cry from a changed heart and reconciliation my dear.

And even thinking that he will get in to see any counselor post divorce is ludicrous. Why counsel now? You need it. You're divorced. Done. Over. He's off chasing skirts and wielding his testosterone at the world. Leave him to that life. If you have faith and real faith, then this time show everybody that you have it for real and get on with it~I am pulling for you.

For once, I'd sure like to see you quit being the whipping post and get angry.

Get really mad.

I did. And it helps. Sure helped me get moving on the road to recovery. Quit whining and wishing he'd "hear you or understand you". That is not going to happen. And if you think posting here about your pain is going to catch his attention should he be surfing around and spying here on the site, then think again. He's a controlling freak.

Post for YOUR benefit, not ever for his.

I have one other question for you...Isn't your LB totally depleted by now? Mine has been for almost a year. With all you've gone through I feel your professed "love" for your x is more of codependence. I think that's what's really going on with you. Who could possibly love anybody doing this crap to them?

I have hit a phase where I cannot even look at my xh. He makes me nauseous and feel like vomiting. He is so ugly on the inside and such a liar that I want nothing from him other than financial support for my child and I and when I see or look upon him I feel repulsion for the personal choices in his life. His willful, sinful, selfish egoist choices. They don't make me cry anymore. I see a pile of poo when I look at him. Know God's in control and one day I may feel differently, but God would be the only wawy that could ever happen I can tell you.

When is enough enough? Please show us some spunk and show us a fighter, not somebody that's going to lie down and play dead. Are you gonna let him win? Who's life is it? Is it yours? Show us. We're waiting and pulling for you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Faith4me:
<strong> This holiday was suppose to be a holiday much easier than last year. The way things are going, it is going to be worse.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WHY wouldn't this holiday be easier than the last one??? Of course it won't be "easier" until YOU get yourself where you need to be (emotionally). If you are not there yet. That is NOT xH's fault.

It CAN be easier, more peaceful IF YOU DON'T INVITE HIM TO IT. Just plan to cook for whoever you invite, and don't allow who you don't want to come into YOUR house (including any children who will invite "Dear old Dad"). If they want to share a Thanksgiving meal with him, let them GO TO HIS HOUSE. If you want to invite your poor mother-in law, DO IT.

Faith ONLY INVITE AND PLAN TO FEED WHO YOU WANT THERE.

If he shows up and starts making a scene outside the door (THE ONE WITH THE NEW LOCKS), call the cops.

Problem solved.

Up date is that he feels he wants to be in this house whenever he wants to. And like tonight, he doesn't see the pain that he causes, when he says oh we should go over to a friends house and play this game. LIke, [censored] you b*tch, the kids and I will go. That is exactly how I felt. But hey, I have the emotional problem not him. As he tells me. Going to bed. Got things pretty much done, and have to get up early to put the turkey in the oven. A 20# one. Looks good, and cleaned it and brining it overnight.

I just realized that I posted earlier this morning and it didn't go through.

Don't much time left, need to get to bed. We both are to take and write our divorce definition for what we think. And what we expect as boundaries. He said, that will be SIMPLE, he doesn't have any boundaries. Once again, the affair was his, kicked me, cussed at me, physically hurt me, wanted him out and he wouldn't go until he was ready. And once again, the per say reconcilliation was his, sit at the computer, I was his doormat, and now the divorce was his way, procrastinated, caused me great deal of money, and now he wants the divorce his way aftermath. Come and enjoy MY house, and talk like I am not here in front of me and telling the kids we will go here and therer. And wanting to see the pictures of his and kids vacation, and doesn't see any of the pain that it causes me. I went upstairs and went to the tub and cried my heart out. Such a fat Jerk he is.

Everything has been his way, and yes I am a fat Jerk for letting him get his way. Down the tubes again, but you know what I DESERVE it.

<small>[ November 26, 2003, 10:32 PM: Message edited by: Faith4me ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Everything has been his way, and yes I am a fat Jerk for letting him get his way. Down the tubes again, but you know what I DESERVE it.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Faith, you don't "deserve" it, but it IS a consequence of what you allow to be done to you. Faith, I hope this doesn't hurt to much, but I see a very weak-willed woman in you who is the "perfect foil" for a dominating and abusive man.

Faith, sufdb (SNL) is NOT your husband anymore. But it is past the time that you should be getting professional help. You need that professional help in two major areas. First, you need counseling in how to develop a more secure self-image that will enforce your boundaries and not allow people (your ex or anyone else) to violate those boundaries with impunity.

Second, you need your attorney to "stand in for you." YOU don't have the will, the knowledge, or the fortitude to do this yourself. That is self evident from all your postings. It is time to tell all of these struggles, abuses, etc. to your attorney and ASK and LET and EMPOWER you attorney to act on your behalf. Let him enforce the divorce decree for you. Let him file whatever needs to be filed. Let him drag your ex-husband's sorry backside into court. Let him get every dime from your husband that is required. In short, let you attorney deal with your husband so that you don't have to. I guarantee you that you attorney will NOT have any problem standing up to the shennigans of your ex-husband.

Then you work with the counselor to rebuild your emotional and psychological strength to be able to "stand on your own."

And btw, why are you cooking a 20lb turkey? Is the ex-husband coming over for dinner? If he is, why? Let him have dinner with his mother or alone, but not as "part of the family" that HE has torn asunder.

Faith, I am "angry" with his abuse of you and I am "angry" with you for not standing up for yourself and cutting off all contact with him. It DOES NOT MATTER what you feel (i.e. "I still love him"), because HE has chosen to commit adultery and leave you. God is quite clear in His direction to sinners, "God and SIN NO LONGER." sufdb (SNL) continues in sin and sinful behavior and you are NOT to tolerate that if you want to be obedient to God yourself. Faith, get the professional help and let them "take over for you" for a while until you are strong enough to do so on your own.

God bless you and give you the strength and wisdom needed, and the willingness to accept the professional help that HE provides for you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can't help that, he is the one that decided to have an affair. He is the one who decided to physically abuse me. He is the one who wanted the divorce. And once again I feel he didn't listen to my words tonight.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He didn't.
He hasn't.
He won't.
Ain't ever gonna happen!!!

Change the locks. Telling him how you feel is a start. But, until you get some backbone, you won't ever be able to stand up straight.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The Bridge card reduced the food for just myself and my one son from one adult and 4 dependents. So now I get $312 a month for food . </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If I had that to spend each month, my two children and I would certainly eat better. Aren't most of your children grown? If you are struggling this hard financially, have a family meeting. Tell them you have some expectations that they meet some of the responsibilities of being supposedly mature adults.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your problems are largely your own responsibility now. You are divorced. You are letting, yes, allowing this man (if I can give him that much credit) to do this to you. He is using you now just like he did in marriage for his own gain. He can only do this to you because you are allowing it.

One of my favorite sayings:
If you don't like getting what you get, stop doing what you do. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Cinderella gives a standing ovation to Firebird.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WHY wouldn't this holiday be easier than the last one??? Of course it won't be "easier" until YOU get yourself where you need to be (emotionally). If you are not there yet. That is NOT xH's fault.

It CAN be easier, more peaceful IF YOU DON'T INVITE HIM TO IT. Just plan to cook for whoever you invite, and don't allow who you don't want to come into YOUR house (including any children who will invite "Dear old Dad"). </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You tell the children, 'These are the people who may come. Please notice that your father is not on the list. And he is NOT allowed in the house for which I pay. It is my territory. He may visit with you or wait for you on the porch but as of this very minute he is not allowed in the house unless I invite him. Are there any questions?'

You know, your children are being inconsiderate, too. At least the adult ones.

If your x has no place but mommy's to visit with them, he can get a life - and his own place. This is not your issue here. Give that fight up.

Get the locks changed.

And get the PPO.

It is yourself you are not protecting and respecting.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">you need your attorney to "stand in for you." YOU don't have the will, the knowledge, or the fortitude to do this yourself. That is self evident from all your postings. It is time to tell all of these struggles, abuses, etc. to your attorney and ASK and LET and EMPOWER you attorney to act on your behalf. Let him enforce the divorce decree for you. Let him file whatever needs to be filed. Let him drag your ex-husband's sorry backside into court. Let him get every dime from your husband that is required. In short, let you attorney deal with your husband so that you don't have to. I guarantee you that you attorney will NOT have any problem standing up to the shennigans of your ex-husband.

Then you work with the counselor to rebuild your emotional and psychological strength to be able to "stand on your own." </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Another standing ovation from Cinderella, this one for ForeverHers.

Faith4Me, get your own life. Give up the past and embrace the future. And get a locksmith. And a counselor who is worth what they get paid. And quit whining about someone YOU allow to come in and beat you up with his words and actions.

<small>[ November 27, 2003, 10:32 AM: Message edited by: cinderella ]</small>

BRAVO CINDERELLA!!

And everyone who is trying to talk some sense into faith!

faith...you are allowing him into your home. You are divorced. He doesn't need to be in your home unless you wish it. If you didn't let him in and pay attention to him, he COULDN'T berate you and upset you! Why are you allowing this?

I understand about the abuse. I was physically abused and verbally abused for 10 yrs by my first H. Do I give him the time of day now? NOPE!! I figured out that he doesn't care about how I feel or what I think. He isn't capable of that.

Since you're divorced, HE doesn't HAVE to respect you!!! Stop trying to understand why he doesn't. It's because he doesn't want to and he doesn't care to.

CHANGE THE LOCKS!! STOP BEING THE VICTIM!!

Mitzi <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

faith4me,

I'm going to take a little different approach to this. I can remember not too long ago coming onto this forum to tell people how much I hurt...hoping for some support and encouragement...only to be what I felt at the time was "yelled at" for letting him hurt me. I was whiplashed and stunned that the people I thought were "there for me" were actually now the ones yelling at me!

Look, faith, we love you. Seriously, I bet every single person who has responded on this thread has responded because they love you and don't want to see you hurt anymore. I bet every single person also feels some sorrow in their own heart knowing that you DO hurt! Soooo...they're trying to tell you what to do to fix it so that you don't hurt anymore.

Unfortunately, you are an abused wife. Period. You were mentally, emotionally and physically abused by your EX and that is the fact...and it has made you unsure of yourself and a bit weak.
Things happen to you that hurt you, and you don't realize it yet or understand yet, but you allow them to happen. One of my favorite sayings is: "I'm not a victim, I'm a volunteer."

Faith, in your head you know that you and your EX are no longer married, right? He has NO claim on you whatsoever, neither does he have any further responsibility to you. You two are officially divorced and you could move to South Dakota if you wanted to--with any kids in tow who wanted to come, and he couldn't stop you. Maybe it would help you to think of him as just another guy you don't know in your little town...would you let a guy you don't know just walk into your house and eat your food?? Of course not!! Would you let a guy you don't know use your house to spend time with his kids?? Of course not!!! And would let Cinderella or Mitzi treat you as thoughtlessly and selfishly as he does? NO WAY!! Would you let me just waltz into your house, eat anything I want, take anything I want, use the house for my own selfish reasons, and then speak to you in a condescending, disrespectful, ungrateful way? NO WAY!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> You would expect Cinderella or Mitzi or myself to speak to you like you are smart and capable, right? And if we didn't, you'd say something to us OR stop talking to us OR get angry--something, right??

See faith, maybe this would make more sense to you or be clearer to you if you compared the way HE behaves to the way any other decent stranger behaves. If he's not treating you like any other decent stranger would behave, then DON'T LET HIM DO IT.

The reason folks here get so hot and bothered is that if a stranger were to walk into our homes, we would not dream of coming onto this site and saying "Oh I cried my eyes out because this guy I don't know walked into my house and took all my food and then told my kids I was dumb and a bad cook too!" HECK NO!!!! We would call the police and check why the door wasn't locked, wouldn't we?? We would file a theft report and protect ourselves.

This is what everyone is suggesting that you do. You keep leaving your door unlocked to a stranger and then crying because you were robbed (of YOUR food, YOUR privacy, and YOUR dignity). Well, lock the door first, and THEN come to us. Get it?? We love you and want the robbery to stop, so we are telling you to protect yourself. Then we'll hug you like there's no tomorrow.

You want your EX to care that he hurt you so much...and care that he is STILL hurting you so much by just walking in, etc. Well, faith, look back over the past few months. Your EX has been very consistent in not caring about how much he's hurting you, hasn't he? VERY consistent. He has consistently NOT CARED, no matter how much you hurt. Honey, the definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing and expect a different result. If he has not cared and nothing has changed (and it hasn't) then it is reasonable to expect that he won't care now.

So, here's a hug...a big one:

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{faith4me}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

You can do it, girl. Be brave. It's scary, and he is going to be mad, but tough. You can do it! If he yells and screams, hang up. If he keeps yelling and screaming, take the phone off the hook. If the kids yell and scream, tell them calmly, "My house, my keys" and don't give them a key until you can trust them. If he comes over to yell and scream, calmly tell him you will call the police if he doesn't leave you alone. Repeat ONCE if necessary and then call them. The number is 911. Just tell the police you are divorced and your ex is at your place scaring you, and you need help to protect you. You don't need to explain the big long story! You belong at that house...he does not...you've asked him to leave...and he isn't. Period. Easy.

You can do it. Tomorrow--go to the hardware store and look for cheap, Kwikset locks. They're easy to change, and you're smart...you can do it yourself (I did). Just price them and start saving for them if you have to...baby steps. Keep moving forward. Keep teling him he is not welcome. If he has nowhere to see the kids, tough--he had the chance to LIVE with them and choose to be in a place where he had nowhere to see them--not your problem. If he has no food, tough--he had the chance to blend incomes and be a family and he chose to be in a place with no food--not your problem.

Get it?? Are ya seeing a pattern here? We love you and hope to encourage you to have the courage to be brave FOR YOU. You can do it--you know you can!! Now, just DO IT!!


CJ

Yes, I see, and I am scared to death! Really scared! This man uses whatever he can against me. That is one thing that he has had a hard time admitting most of his life, that he was wrong. As you can see, when someone disagrees here on MB, he goes on the defense, and cries like a baby that someone is hurting him.

I do have the key and the paperwork to change my locks. It is a pushbutton lock. I will do it tomorrow! I hate to do this, but I will do it tomorrow! I will guarantee you all that he will be one upset man, and will probably use this against me on the kids. Cause, he has done it in the past and I am afraid. I love my kids with all my heart.

Yes, I am scared, cause I have endured more than a woman should ever have to. And yes I was abused by this man physically, and emotionally he still abuses me. I hope my daughters do not have to deal with a man like this. My youngest daughter has a wonderful young man in her life. He is very intelligent, and I can see that he cares about her very much and she about him. I have talked with this young man, and how much I care about my daughter, and to not destroy her, like my husband did to me. And as for my oldest daughter, she really has no man in her life, just a friend that she has over once in awhile. I believe, she cares about this guy, but nothing else. And I don't want my boys mistreating women in their lives. Of course that is what they saw, with their father, and I have talked to them about helping their girlfriends (if they should have any in the future). And how to be romantic, and caring and listening, and not demanding, and telling them what they should and should not do.

I will do a baby step tomorrow. I will change the locks. Yes, XWH will take the kids out to dinner and the movies tomorrow. He can afford it making great amount of money. That is why he is talking about buying one of those expensive big TV's now. I forgot what they are called, but they are expensive.

Anyways, yes, this was our last thanksgiving dinner together (XWH and I). I will invite my mother-in-law to everything beyond this time, even though I don't invite XWH. And if she does decide not to come, that is her choice. I do love her, and she and I are good friends. And she knows that I will take good care of her, when the time comes.

Yes, XWH did choose to have an affair, did choose to lie, did choose to deceit me, did choose to physically abuse and emotionally abuse me. Yes, XWH wanted the divorce, as you all could see from his posting way back about 1 - 2 years ago. He stated he wanted the divorce and I didn't. But I filed after the physical abuse. So he got what he wanted, now he turns it around and says he did what I wanted. He knows deep in his heart I didn't want the divorce, but I couldn't stay in a physically, abusive marriage. God wouldn't want me to, for fear of my life. And who knows what XWH is carrying. I will have HIV testing done again, according to my gyn, it should be done for the next 10 years. XWH doesn't believe me, and says, he was forced by lawyers to have it done, and came back negative, he won't have to do it later. Well, news for him, is it can show up much later. My GYN has in the paperwork of my husbands sexual affair, and that I will have HIV done for my health.

Just having a hard time, and all of you are right, that I am a whimp. Which I am. I am scared of my husband. He was watching a movie with the kids here, and one part the actor said being married was like being in jail, and hsuband said, YEP! All the kids heard, and I heard it, and if I had a slingshot I would of shot it at him. But inside I said, keep it rolling idiot, and just keep the demeaning words coming. What an idiot for saying that, and I bet he doesn't even remember saying it. He says things that are so callous and uncalled for. But that is the wayward spouse keeping himself on the front line.

I am upset, and hurting. I deserve to be hurt, cause I am still allowing this man to be in my life. I understand you all. I will take the babystep and change the locks tomorrow, with the key and the rules on how to change the locks. I did go to the police department and they have the information there. If ever I call they will come and escort the guy out of my house. Hate to do this, but somehow, someway, he has to get the picture, that he wanted the divorce, and he should start obeying the rules, which he hasn't in the divorce paper.

As far as getting a lawyer, I can't afford one, and to have my same lawyer, I owe money to him, which I filled out paperwork on that subject. Waiting for information to come back on that.

First step tomorrow, baby step to change the locks. Thanks. And I wish I had one of you here at my house with me. Cause he will use this against me from my kids.

<small>[ November 29, 2003, 11:18 AM: Message edited by: Faith4me ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">but if he ever gets audited, he is in deep trouble. That is why this last income tax, I signed a paper releasing myself from being included on the total he put down. What gets me, is his friend (the accountant) does what he says, and when I talked to him, he said he won't get in trouble, cause he just goes by the figures, and if XWH ever got audited, he won't get in trouble, XWH will get in trouble. I hate to see this, but if it happens it will happen. SEe XWH has his own business, so he just has customers make checks out to him and then he cashes the checks. He did this many times, when I was doing the business.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Faith, SUFDB may be in for a real shock. All it would take is for one anonymous phone call to the IRS to start the audit ball rolling. I'll bet he know about the dangers of "comingling funds" between personal and business accounts, but thinks that he can get away with it. As for his accountant, if the accountant had reason to believe that the "numbers" were "cooked", falsified, etc. he has a fiduciary responsibility to not file false returns. You can bet that his butt would get dragged into an audit and if they find that he should have "reasonably known" that the returns were false, he won't escape penalities either.

Seems like more of your exH's manipulative ways, and this time it might affect the professional career of his accountant. Just another example of his lack of care and consideration for others. It's all about "me, me, me!" and the heck with everyone else. One thing I can tell you for certain is that he is no Christian, despite his "claims" to the contrary. He displays NO characteristics that one should expect to see.

Hang in there Faith. Keep tightening the independence of yourself from your ex-husband. Perhaps God may even use that to "reach" him, but it might take many years.

God bless.

Faith,

If he wants to try to use changing the locks against you with the kids...Let Him!! You have to take care of this for yourself and your sanity. No, I'm not saying you're insane but I know personally in situations like this it can feel like you are. After being abused for so long, it takes time to get out of that pattern of letting them abuse you. Believe me, I do know this. My ex abused me for 11 years. And I still find myself starting to feel like that same person with no self esteem and being afraid of how my new husband will react to things. And my ex hasn't been here for almost 4 years. (It will be 4 years on 12/23)

Keep your chin up and change those locks!!

Mitzi <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />