Greetings,<BR>This is a little long!<BR>My husband and I have been having problems with his addiction to pornography. It is not just an occasional thing, he uses it as an escape from his troubles and it has put a dent in our relationship. The bigger problem is that he lies to me about it. I just want him to be honest so we can work through his problems together rather than him using this as a temporary release. The newest problem is in regards to iur children. We have 2: a 2 month old and a 14 month old. I have found out that he has looked at pornography with the children inthe room, which I find discusting. The first time was about 7 months ago and I told him to never do it again. Then he did again yesterday with both kids in the room. His excuse was that they were asleep, but he said earlier that the big guy was sleeping lightly. I don't know if I am overreascting, but I just feel sickened with him for feeling comfortable with him looking at that (and whatever else he does) with the kids nearby, whether or not they are asleep. Any input?

CRL, if your H wishes to view porn, that's his business and should be a concern in your marriage. However, there is a larger problem here and your H needs to know that social services views his porn addiction as child abuse and you can lose your children. Make it a point to protect your children and then work on your marriage.

My husband also had a problem with this (although we have no children thank goodness). <p>Does your husband seem to care about your feeling on this and just can't seem to stop? Or does he not care about your feelings.<p>Here is something we used: http://www.covenanteyes.com <p>Put it this way: would you husband use porn if you ALWAYS knew when and what he looked at? The above is a link to a tracking program that stores in a remote database EVERY web site your husband visits. They do charge a small fee but it might be worth a try (following the Policy of Joint Agreement of course - I am assuming your husband WANTS to stop).<p>Best of luck, pornography can be among the most hurtful things and his lies are only making the problem worse.<p>A.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Put it this way: would you husband use porn if you ALWAYS knew when and what he looked at? <hr></blockquote><p>Mine does!! My husband has had this problem since he was 15. I never knew he had it till after we were married. we have been married for almost 10 years now. We have seperated for 3 months because of it. That was almost 4 years ago. But he always promised he would never look at it again. An he lied of course. But i bought this program called AppStraka. An he knows it is on there. We have 3 daughters, but he would never look at it in front of them or me. He wanits till we are all asleep an then does it an never tells me till he is caught an then we fight about it. I hate it an find it very wrong. Best of luck to you.

Thats a tuff situation.
All i can say is that my husband use to put pictures of women in skimpy bikini's and look at porno when we were married and even now. (we are divorced, but spend time together)
It bothered me because i worked at children aide a protection agancy and the things i saw bothered me HUGE.
I would try to explain that the screen saver was insulting because i felt degraded and i didn't want our daughter seeing women as displayed objects. I don't think he really understands. Infact i know he doesn't because he tells me i am over-reacting.
As far as the prono goes i guess i am lucky because to my best of my knowledge he doesn't display this type of stuff on the screen when she is around. He enjoys the sites and video's. That doesn't bother me as much anymore. But our sex life is a little more than traditional so, maybe this is why. I don't enjoy the sites myself but he does. I couldn't control that behavior so i let it be.....afterall the final decision is WHAT CAN YOU LIVE WITH?

Thanks everyone for your input. I think we have made a little progress working this situation out, but sometimes it's hard. Sometimes I feel like I am trying to find a reason to leave him because of this problem. You know, the thing that really bothers me about the situation is that when I told him never to do that with the kids around , awake, or anything like that, he seemed like he understood. But the second time he said he wasn't clear about what meant, and that it was ok if the kids were in the room if they were not fully awake. He has enough sense to know what is and is not kosher! Even if he wasn't clear with what I told him, he should know that it isn't proper to look at porn with kids in the room. Now he says he fully understands and he won't do it again, but how do I really know? He do I know that he isn't going to do it again and say that I wasn't clear? I want to leave him sometimes and my children and their well-being are top priority. But becasue theya re top priority, I worry about how bad it would be if we did divorce. My husband and I come from single mom households, and it was so hard. I really don't care about it being harder on me, but I want them to have the best life possible. It's like the worst of two evils: do I stay with a man who is (or at least was) do disrespectful to our children for putting them in the presense of something kids have no place around, or do I leave him and have my children grow up in a broken home. It's like I'm just waiting for the next time he decides that his impulses are more important than my wishes and the kids' protection, because I am almost positive he will look at the porn again and more importantly ( unless he is around the kids when he does it) lie to me about it. I have tried some good programs that filter content and deny access to certain sites, and they work great. But he is very educated in computers and knows how to get around it, like by downloading things from a network or going to newsgroups. I am out of gas! It's easy to say that if he does it again, I'll leave, but I can't say that honestly. It deeply hurts me that he lies to me. I have told him we were getting legally seperated once, but he responded to me like I didn't say anything.
Anyways, thanks for letting me vent, I think that's where most of the healing is.

If you need a support group just for this for you an him, email me an i will give you a site for you both an alot of sites for spouse support.<p>jade28921@home.com

I am new to this site and this message board and am not quite sure how it all works. What I need, however, is some support for my problem with my husband's need for pornography. I was raised in a very strict Christian home and pornography was never an issue in our household. My husband, however, was raised by a very emotionally needy mother whose husband (my husband's father) cheated on her and used/uses pornography on a regular basis. My husband's father also sexually molested his older half-sister. In the past two weeks I found internet pornography sites that my husband has been using for his sexual "gratification", for lack of a better term. I came across them by accident. At first he lied about it and then he admitted he'd been doing this for at least two years. I also recently found out that he had paid prostitutes in his past (which he says were before our marriage, but I'm not so sure about that). He has been lying all along to me about his fidelity. We have seen a counselor twice, but now all my husband does is sleep. He has entered a depression of some sort and I'm really upset because it seems that he's upset because I found out; not that he has been lying, cheating and has ultimately destroyed all my trust and faith in him. I am finding out all kinds of "nasties" from his past that he brought into our marriage. I am angry and upset and need to find someone who has been through this and can help me find a direction. Any help would be appreciated. If there is anyone who can help me, please email me at "dj88fan0160@yahoo.com". Thank you.

all i can say is sleep is an avoidance measure<p>my best friend is terribly unhsppily married and he sleeps thru when "she" is home and when he has to go to "her" familyfor gatherings<p>he stays for the child but is in an emotinal black hole
sleep avoidance is a real thing ... if they are not ready for the divorce yet ...sleep and just being absent both emotionally and phisically is a very bad sign <p>time to ralk or call it quits<p>sorry [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]

Man's point of view....<p>I don't care if you like it, hate it, or are indifferent to it....Porn has NO PLACE around kids...PERIOD.<p>As a child I was exposed...from what was found in abandoned houses near where I lived....relatives...whatever...and I really believe that it has damaged my life to the point that I do not know what a natural relationship is supposed to be like....<p>Just my two cents.

Another man's perspective -<p>First, to Freddy - I also saw pornography when I was a kid. It was my first introduction to women's bodies and really didn't damage my relationship with women in any way. In the more hormon charged teenage years, I consider it part of an exploritory phase. If it ruined your life, I'd be willing to be that you're in a significant minority and perhaps there were other issues involved (such as your parent's relationship as a model).<p>Certainly some porn is degrading to women, perhaps all pornography is in some sense. I don't necessarily consider a picture of a nude woman pornography, but I digress...<p>
Your husband is going to hide his use of pornography from you for as long as he knows that you look down on him because of it. He's not honest with you because he knows that you disapprove. It's the same as drug use, alcohol abuse, or any other type of bad habit (I stop short of addiction, because your husband may not be addicted) - if one partner doesn approve then the other will attempt to hide the behavior if it is continued.<p>I don't have children yet, but I can understand your concern about pornography being in front of them. I'm not up to speed on child development, but it's likely that right now they are not even aware of what the pictures on the screen are (this is perhaps what he's thinking).<p>
First, let your husband know that you would like to discuss the use of pornography in your house. Let him know that you're willing to negotiate (if you are). During the negotiations, ask your husband to be brutially honest about the subject and that as a couple you won't be able to accomplish anything without this type of honesty. YOU have to be willing to discuss the issue too WITHOUT getting angry at him or doing things that make him feel like he needs to hide his intentions from you.<p>Is it OK if your husband looks at pornography? Pornography can be different things to different men - it can be an outlet for sexual frustration, it can be an occasional indulgance for curiosity's sake, or it can be an addiction and illness and even leading to sexual abuse. It runs a range, so don't assume the worst right off the bat.<p>It's paramount that your husband understands that pornography and the kids is not OK. As a man, sometimes my wife says things that I intrepret differently (or forget about) later.. This is not intentional! One way to get around this issue is to write the things that you agree on down!! This way, your husband can't claim he didn't know or wasn't aware. Write the results of you discussion down.<p>
Hopefully, you and your husband can come to some sort of reasonable agreement about pornography and the household. You may have to be willing to live the knowlege that your husband is looking at a little bit of pornography in exchange for honesty and the promise that it doesn't happen around the kids. Is this any better than having your husband look at pornography and lying about it, while you try and catch him with software traps and clever monitoring devices?<p>I do no suggest that pornography is a good thing, but I do suggest that you live with the reality of your situation.<p>
When I'm happy with my wife and have a good sexual realationship, my use of pornography is non existant. I have looked at pornography before, as I'm a curious human being. I've even collected it on the computer. I ADMIT my sins. For me, I do find nude women appealing and there is a bit of excitement in seeing women do things that my wife doesn't necessarily enjoy. I will tell you this, that it gets BORING after a while and I'm not even beginning to be addicted to it. It's simply not "real" - it's another world.<p>I believe that the bible promotes pornography as wrong because many weak human beings can be drawn into it to a point that isn't healthy. Maybe this what happened to FreedyB? For me, it's not a huge temptation. My wife doesn't really ask if I view pornography, but I'm sure she's aware that I know where to get it if I want to find it (I work in the computer industry). I think if my wife told me that I could NOT look at it, it would be tempting as a forbidden temptation.<p>You need to ask your husband what he finds appealing about pornography. Maybe if you were willing to meet his needs a bit better then he wouldn't want to use pornography. I am NOT suggesting that his porn use is your FAULT. I'm not suggesting that you do pornographic things for him either... I can see a man turning to pornography when his emotional (which can be sexual) needs are not being met.<p>For me, just seeing the my wife is at least making an attempt to compromise and meet my needs goes a long way toward a feeling of contentment...<p>Good luck.. Just for the record, I'm not pro-pornography and I don't think it should be a part of any relationship. I just believe that some men are not going to change overnight and I prefer to err on the side of being realistic...<p>-d

Things have gotten a lot better in the last month or so, as my husband seems to be a lot more truthful with me about his habits. Unless it is when the children are around, it's the lying that is the problem with me, and the pornography a far second. When a man puts himself out to be a certain type of person, then you realize he is totally different, it's really hard to make the adjustment and to trust him. When he continues to lie, it makes things that much harder to deal with. Plus, looking at "tasteful" pictures is one thing, while viewing hardcore porn videos is a whole different thing, in my opinion.
Putting things in writing is a really god idea - it seems like the "i wasn't clear" excuse gets way overused in my relationship.
I understand what you mean about my husband being untruthful because he thinks that I disapprove. I don't claim to be perfect, and I myself ave had problems with porn in the past, but I always got this gut-wrenching feeling that I needed to be truthful with him about it, even if it made me look weak, etc. It hurts that I would be truthful with him, expose myself like that, and he wouldn't show me the same respect. Anyway, my being truthful with him has really helped me get over my use (which was like the occasional curiosity you mentioned, Darin). I don't want to act like I'm perfect and he's the bad husband, because that's not how I feel.
It's more of a confusion of how someone could not reciprocate the respect I give him by being honest. It's like he doesn't trust me.
Just for reference, he now perfectly understands that if he is going to regress into porn use, the children are to be asleep, upstairs, and will in no way be able to know what he does.
I see your point about negotiating with him and not looking on it like a "forbidden temptation", and I have tried that to no avail. I told him he could look at it ot his heart's content in hopes that he would start to see that it's not primarily the porn I'm bothered by. All I asked is that he be honest with me (it's not like I want him to run to me every time he uses porn, though), but he still wasn't being honest. He still hid his use and it got no better.
I'll be perfectly honest and tell you what ended up working. I told him that we would view the porn together (not as a frequent thing), but he was not to look at it by himself. We only did that a couple of times, and don't "need" to anymore. I'm sorry if that sounds like a terrible plan to some, believe me it was quite akward and may ont have been the BEST solution, but it was the best for us and worked. I think he finally realized that it is the honesty that is the problem, and he now (a couple times) he tells me when he slips up.
It might seem stupid that I am so picky about him telling me what he does, but it's not a control thing. He truly is addicted to porn, self admitted, and has been since he was 10. I mainly want to get him over it, so it's not a crutch for emotional outlet.
Anyways, thanks everyone for your help. I really have appreciated the input.

I need to recant what I said about "trying it together" working. It surely didn't work like I thought it would. I found out that while my husband got better at home, he was looking at porn at work instead. Since my last post, things have not gotten better - H is still blatently lying. I just don't know what to do...In addition to the fact that he kept using porn and lying about it when I thought he was in "recovery", he used "us trying it together" as an excuse to look at it. I found out he had been downloading and "previewing" the videos (looking at them for a short second to see what they were -- as if the title of the video doesn't give away enough information) one day while I was at school with both the kids in the room. Excuse: "I only looked at them for a second to see if they were good, plus our youngest was asleep and our oldest was watching tv and was trying to sleep." I'm sorry, but I am beside myself about this. I don't understand how a man who is supposed to be looking after children can think it's acceptable to download and "preview" porn 6 feet away from a toddler and an infant! Maybe they can't see the screen or her the audio, maybe they can. But the point is he was supposed to be watching the kids, and God knows what is going through his head when he is doing this. Frankly, I am concerned about the safety of my children.
He has a sexual addiction, and he has admitted he does masterbate to the videos (PS - he had NEVER done this in front of the kids) sometimes and also without porn stimulation. The main reason (at this point) I would be bothered with his masterbation is that it would cut into our sexual relationship. Last year H said he wanted to stop masterbating. Before that (before we were married and when we were first married), he had been telling me that he had NEVER masterbated, changed to did it once, twice, that's it. So when he told me last year that he masterbates a lot, it really hurt. ut he wanted to stop, which did make me happy. Our sexual relationship has been terrible lately. Last week I asked him "do you masterbate still" he said "no, i don't". I said "wow, it's been a long time." he said "yeah, it has." Great, he's doing good. Wrong, he told me today that he had been still masterbating. I asked him why he lied to me last week, and he insisted he didn't (various reason). Finally he admits now that he lied to me.
I'm sorry is this is hard to follow. Basically, he lies left and right. He vows now that he is a chnaged man, that he wants to put our relationship first, that he wont look at porn again because he sees he is addicted. It all sounds like bull to me -- the same old lie. That on top of the downloading and previewing incident has really broken the camel's back. I am ready to leave him and want to so badly. I guess I'm writing to ask: am i justified? Should I be so hurt by this? I can't trust him anymore. I feel drained and suicidal. Am I in company of a scumball or just a man who needs help or should I just let it go? I am totally lost.

Another man's input:<p>What kind of pornography is your H looking at? This may be another issue.<p>I whole heartedly agree that this should not be done in front of the children and I believe that this should be strictly adressed.<p>Since your husband is not available here to defend himself, let me try to explain some possibilities:<p>If the issue of the children is resolved, and the pornography is not of an illegal nature, I assume that he has desires for sex that do not match your level. And so, as not to disrespect you, he relieves his sexual frustrations with pornography.
I also assume, that there has not been much sexual intimacy between the two of you lately with the newborn and a toddler. This may also lead to the sexual tensions that he is feeling.
Also, with the children's ages so close together and so young, I wonder if you and your H were together more before the first child was conceived? This being the case, there was a major withdrawl that he has gone through and is trying to deal with.

crl1759,<p>First of all, I am so, so sorry for your hurt. I know it very well, as you will see if you read this thread: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=31&t=005768<p>Others are also dealing with variations of the same problem:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=000330
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=000329
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=5&t=001803
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=5&t=001796<p>You are not alone.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by crl759:
<strong>I found out he had been downloading and "previewing" the videos one day while I was at school with both the kids in the room.<hr></blockquote></strong><p>This is a HUGE deal. You are absolutely right to be concerned about his lack of judgment in viewing any form of porn with young children around. I disagree with the earlier poster who said really young children just don't know what porn is, so if they see it, it is not a big deal. Children become aware of their private parts in infancy; anyone who has regularly changed babies' diapers will attest to a baby grabbing for his/her privates. And children as young as 2 will stimilate their private parts because it causes a pleasant sensation. Young children may not be aware of the sexual nature of their private parts, but an eye-full of their dad's porn will be enough to dispel that innocence! Any child welfare worker would be appalled, and rightfully so, by your H's conduct and his explanations that the kids probably did not see what he was doing.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Frankly, I am concerned about the safety of my children.<hr></blockquote><p>I would be too.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>He has a sexual addiction, and he has admitted he does masterbate to the videos<hr></blockquote><p>Have you looked at some of the websites on sexual addiction? If you have, you will probably have seen the various questionnaires to help determine whether someone is an addict. The secrecy, repeated broken promises to stop, masterbation to porn, are all signs of an addiction. Since he is unlikely to take one of the questionnaires, take one with the information that you know (which is quite a bit now), and see what the probability is that he is an addict. You will then know the severity of the problem.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>The main reason (at this point) I would be bothered with his masterbation is that it would cut into our sexual relationship.<hr></blockquote><p>Many people will say 'everyone masterbates', and that may be close to the truth. BUT not everyone regularly uses porn, and not everyone masterbates to porn. Those are two additional factors which changes 'occasional masterbation' into something quite different. Materbating to porn only adds to the addictive properties of porn viewing, because of the chemicals (endorphins) released on 'o'; this is a powerful positive reinforcer to the viewing of porn and, according to the experts in the area, a harder habit to break than viewing without self-stimulation.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Basically, he lies left and right. He vows now that he is a chnaged man, that he wants to put our relationship first, that he won't look at porn again because he sees he is addicted. It all sounds like bull to me -- the same old lie.<hr></blockquote><p>Same old, same old. I have heard it all before also. So ask yourself this, what is he doing differently this time? The key is in what he DOES not what he says he will do. Is he doing any reading on the topic? What about seeking out a men's group on sexual addition? What about talking to someone in his church about breaking the addiction? Counselling? Ask those questions, then come back to the question of whether you have any reason to believe his promises.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>I am ready to leave him and want to so badly. I guess I'm writing to ask: am I justified? Should I be so hurt by this? I can't trust him anymore. I feel drained and suicidal. Am I in company of a scumball or just a man who needs help or should I just let it go? I am totally lost.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Are you justified? Whether you have just reason is something only you can answer, because it is your M, your children, your limits. You need to ask yourself what you can live with and for how long, what you can't live with, and what you are willing to do to restore your M.<p>Should you be so hurt? It does not matter whether you should be hurt. Because the fact of the matter is that YOU ARE HURT. Don't let others tell you what you should or should not feel. You know your feelings, and they are telling you something. Please do not let others (your H for example) tell you that you should not feel what you feel. Your feelings are telling you very clearly what your limits are. Do you want to live by YOUR limits or someone else's?<p>Trust Of course your trust in him is broken. That is what happens when one is lied to again and again. Do not expect yourself to trust him right now. Give yourself a break.<p>I feel drained and suicidal. Please see your doctor right away. All of this has taken a toll on you, which is completely understandable. Ask if anti-depressants are an option, and make sure to tell the doctor about the stress that you have been going through and your suicidal thoughts. If you are depressed, it is important to seek medical assistance immediately. Suicidal thoughts should not ever be taken lightly. Please see someone today.<p>Am I in company of a scumball or just a man who needs help or should I just let it go?<p>Whether you are still living with this man or not, he is the father of your children. So, he is going to be seeing your kids whether you are together or not. So, the problem does not go away simply because you end the M.<p>Clearly he needs help. Whether or not there is a sexual addiction, there is clearly a 'boundaries' issue. Your H does not stay within appropriate boundaries in his conduct. The lies and the previewing of porn in the same room as children are two clear examples, but I am sure you can think of dozens more. Whether you are dealing with boundaries issues and sexual addiction, or only one along with a longstanding hard-to-break habit does not change the answer to this question. Your H needs help.<p>Should I just let it go? No! No! No! If you let it go, guaranteed you will find more porn use, discover other lies, and be given further excuses to 'explain' both. Deal with the issue now. The quicker your H faces these problems, the quicker you get a sense of what the obstacles are in front of your M.<p>The first thing to do is to take are of yourself and your children. Please see your doctor right away.<p>Then do a little reading on the topic of sexual addictions. The hyperlinks above will give you good sites and books to start with.<p>Then enlist professional help and be certain that the professional has experience with the issues that your H is facing. Not any old counsellor or clergy will do!<p>Good luck. Please let us know how you are doing.<p>[ February 13, 2002: Message edited by: Trying Again and Again ]</p>

I don't have children yet, so I won't respond to that.<p>I do have a SO who admits he's addicted to porn and who has repeatedly lied about his addictive behaviors. And the lies hurt worse than the behaviors. Much worse. <p>I feel odd when I say "I love you" to him. Do I? Is he the person I love? If he's lying to me, do I really know him well enough to love him? Why is he lying? I asked him. He says it's because he doesn't want to deal with the hassle of me confronting him. Not lying to protect me. Not changing his behavior to protect me. Not telling me the truth to allow me to decide how I feel about him based on the truth. Yuk. And does his use of pornography make me question my feelings for him as much as the lies? Nope, not nearly as much.<p>Sadly though selfish lying just to protect himself is part of being an addict. It's a tough situation, but with his dedication and outside groups and therapy for both of us, it IS getting better.

It's a hard thing to confront someone with a porn problem - for one thing society in general has not condemned, rather supported, psuedo-porn if nothing else. It seems like porn is the only addiction that is accepted! In reality, it is just as addictive as any drug (depends on the person, I know) and hurts like heck to spouses who disapprove. I truly feel your pain. In some ways the deceit is worse than the actualy porn veiwing. I tell my husband, "If nothing else, aren't I worth the truth?" He says yes, but continues to lie. I would love to talk to you about your situation. I'm in such a bad place right now, and the latest rounds of promises just seem so "old news". He says he wants to change, but shows no progress. I've tried every "solution" under the sun to try and help my husband out of his habit, and the truth is that it seems like this is jsut HIS battle - nothing I can do will change him, I can only support him.
You know, it's so strange when I think back upon the times as a child when I would picture how my life would be and dream about beig married and all. I thought that I would never put up with a man who lied to me. I thought that I would leave at the first sign of deceit. I could not tolerate a man who disrespected me. And most definitely I would not ever forgive one instance of infidelity or agressive physical contact. But as time has gone by, I let things go. I rationalize. I've started having nervous breakdowns. Now he seems so eager to change. But you know, he is still the same old inconsiderate guy. For example - he has morning classes. I asked him if he could stay home today, he said that he needed to go to one and he might be able to come home early - after the first class. He gets to the car and realizes that he wants to work on his car upgrading, so he skips class to work on it, not spend time with me as I requested. He thinks he was doing the right thing, because he thought he would let me sleep in. I wasn't asleep when he left, but he assumed I would go back to sleep after he left. Not with two babies I couldn't!
I know this has nothing to do with porn itself, but it's all about the deceitful and misleading nature that porn addiction puts you into. It's like he just doesn't care about me.
When someone lies to you so much, how do you trust them? How do I know that he isn't lying when he says he loves me, or that he doesnt cheat on me (I found a phone number with a lady's name on it in his jeans about a year ago. There is a chance that is an old friend of mine's phone #, but that still doesnt explain why it was in HIS pocket...) etc etc etc...
WEll, thats my two cents for the day...<p>[ February 15, 2002: Message edited by: crl759 ]</p>

I know what you mean about the "not me, that won't be me". But I'm standing up for myself. I'm not just putting up with it or ignoring it. I still have self respect and feel I deserve to be respected. I realize some women may be enthusiastic and delighted that their SO's use porn. I'm not one of them.<p>The lies I get are SO selfish. He lies to me to avoid conflict and to get to do exactly what he wants to do without consulting his partner. I don't like the idea of lying to protect your partner from pain, but I'm not even getting that kind of consideration! <p>I don't understand why he thinks it's easier, because when I discover the truth or he admits he's been lying, we get LOTS of conflict because I am so hurt by his lying. When he does open up to me before lying, I don't lie and pretend to be pleased by what he's telling me. BUT I always thank him for his honesty and always, no matter how difficult, calmly express my feelings without saying anything judgemental about him. Damn! Can't he tell the lying is the harder and more painful choice for both of us???<p>I know. Addicts lie. They lie to themselves.<p>And you know he's selfish about other things too. Just like your H's decision to spend time with his car instead of you. I get that type of stuff too. At times he's very considerate, and then at other times, he just becomes so selfish and self absorbed. With stuff like your H's car, that I'd be genuinely supportive of, if he'd just tell me it was important but was considerate enough to offer me his time first. If he did that, I'd tell him to go tend to his hobbies and be happy about it!

Wow, what you are saying, Willing, is so true. There is no sort of protection of me going on. My H is so self absorbed that he doesn't even think of how things could affect me. He first makes a decision (like to work on his car or to use porn) then makes up a reason why he should (like that by him working on his car he is giving me time to "sleep" or that I won't find out about the porn), trying to twist it into a reason that allows him to feel good about what he is doing. It's so sick. Like you said, if a SO says "I would like to do (fill in the hobby) today, it would be just fine, but not when I asked for attention.<p>I do the exact same thing when my H is honest with me about using porn. I tell him constantly that if he is honest with me, I won't be angry with him, and I'll try to work with him instead. It's so hard though to just grit my teeth, smile, and treat the current issue when I know what he has done. The only time I can get angry with him for disrespecting me by looking at porn is when he lies about it. So I jsut have to hold in the pain of what he has done in hopes that he will heal. <p>I told him today that I need to focus on something in my life to make me happy. Because I rely on him for happiness, and I now know that I can't do that. I hurt to much from him, and when he lets me down I die inside. So I told him this, and that I need to focus on my education more to bring me more happiness (besides my babies, of course). He said it sounded like I am trying to replace him. The other things he said regarding the situation made it seem like he just wants to control and manipulate me. I can see that now, and I just can't put up with his ways anymore.<p>I have been trying desperately to have control in my life, not control over him at all, but over what I accomplish. What he does just knocks me down.<p>Willing, how do you stay in your relationship? Do you see it as working out or failing? I have very little hope for my marriages future at this point. I'm looking at moving out when I get into graduate school this fall. Please let me know you haven't lost hope, that there is also a chance for me!<p>[ February 17, 2002: Message edited by: crl759 ]</p>

Your feelings sound just like my own. It's so good to read this. It helps to know I'm not the only woman who feels this.<p>I do have hope and, you should know, my SO is my fiance. And I still haven't given up. He wants to stop hurting me. He wants a healthy relationship. He's only just started to work on it though.<p>He really didn't understand how I felt until he got outside help. There aren't many groups out there because society doesn't see porn as a destructive addiction. Dr. Harley has an article about it and that really hit home with my SO. Patrick Carnes books did too. My SO isn't Christian, so most of the other sources aren't for him. Groups and one on one counseling with a Doctor that understands porn can destroy relationships are great.<p>Reading your last post, really hit me. Your husband's afraid you want to replace him with your educational interests or hobbies? Do these men hear themselves? Why is he allowed to feel that, but you aren't? Why can't our SO's understand they make US feel like we're being replaced when they use porn?