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Wow! Someone just informed me that Amy Grant and Vince Gill got married!

I'm having a hard time believing that she, as a Christian, would do that. 2 weeks ago I nearly followed through on separating from my wife until the Holy Spirit entered me the morning of Nov.25th.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/primetime/Entertainment/amy_grant_vince_gill_031127.html

<small>[ December 03, 2003, 10:22 AM: Message edited by: Mr.Miew ]</small>

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Oh, yeah. That's old news. Makes you wonder if there was some other reason why her music left the solely Christian market years ago.

I have a friend who's daughter went to high school with Vince Gill's daughter, they were very good friends. I heard about the twosome back when they were both married to their former spouses.

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This happened some time back. Her ex, Gary Chapman, was on tv recently and said they grew apart as her career took off and his dwindled. It's such a shame that they took this route. I am grateful for God's grace and forgiveness, because as human beings we sure can mess things up.

John 16:33.

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To add to this sordid tale of adultery and lust...they were neighbors living within walking distance of each other's estate in TN. They were in fact shacking up and it was adultery. She blamed her divorce on her husband's former drug addiction and that was her spin and blame.

Yea, she and Vince are one couple that MB should shake their heads at. They would love the world to think they are this sweet and innocent couple, but they aren't. Made their divorces seem "justified" and then they waited a few years for everybody to forget about it and then married like it was something good.

Arrgh.

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Mr <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Evidently you have been busy with things other than Christian entertainment news...this occured several years ago. I remember reading numerous Christian magazine articles about it, questioning Amy's "reasoning" (or lack thereof) LOL.

Here is a link to an article in February 2000's Christianity Today magazine, which has some of her "explanations" about "her feelings" and counseling advice she was given. She seems really deceived as to some of the things we here at MB know all too well.

Amy Grant Takes "Time Out"

<small>[ December 03, 2003, 09:29 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>

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They have a child together.

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In that first article, they said:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But their romance could go nowhere. Grant's deep Christian faith made her want to stay married</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So, what does that say? They had a ROMANCE but yet they were married and in their words, "not committing adultery!" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I remember when all that happened. I am not her judge, or his, but I remember feeling... well, disgusted/disappointed.

It wasn't a moment of weakness type of thing. I understand that Christians fall, but this was planned, thought-out, etc. and I think the worse thing is that it was all "justified" in the name of "love," "destiny," and God's "grace." I don't believe there has been much remorse shown on either of their parts. Only justification and constant talk about God's "grace."

I saw the recent interview in Nov. I thought that her youngest daughter looked very sad/unhappy. She barely smiled. And the son wasn't shown much.

I remember seeing another interview with her some time ago and she seemed to almost hint at regret. It sounded like it'd been very hard on the kids and she said something like, "Let's not pretend... this tore apart our families." I can't remember how she worded it but I wondered if she felt regret.

Now that I myself have been divorced by a Christian man who claimed, "God wants me happy" as justification for divorce (among other justifying things in "the name of the Lord"), I really feel for G. Chapman and Vince Gil's wife.

That second link to the Christianity Today article was really good.

Quote from the first link:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Gill, who had been married to his wife Janis since 1980, says he kept Grant in the back of his mind "pretty much" always. He consoled himself with the thought that it might be their destiny to be together one day, perhaps when they were in their 60s or 80s.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Gill says he wrote his 1995 song "Whenever You Come Around" with Grant in mind: "The face of an angel; pretty eyes that shine," the song goes, "I lie awake at night wishing you were mine."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He filed for divorce from his wife of 20 years in 1997 but was writing songs about Amy 2 years prior saying that he "lies awake wishing you were mine?!"

Writing songs about a married woman, lying awake thinking about her (while still married), thinking maybe "destiny" will bring them together... etc... he sounds like a hormonal teenager who acts as if he can't control his thoughts and feelings.

What does this say to the world? Basically, I see them as saying that it's okay to end your marriage if it's bad and if you have found your true "soulmate."

I listened to Amy Grant long ago when I first bacame a Christian (back when her music was far more spiritiual/Biblical), but I don't anymore. I lost respect for her. I can't listen to her without thinking of what she did to her husband. And I can't help but feel disgusted when I hear her talk about "grace" as if that justifies her divorce/remarriage. That, to me, is what some people call "cheap grace."

I also "hold" her to a higher standard than others simply because she publically proclaims to a watching/listening world that she is a Christian.

<small>[ December 04, 2003, 12:42 AM: Message edited by: LoveMyEx ]</small>

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Wow, I'm surprised to find this is new to some people!

This is ancient history in Nashville. I got the lowdown on the affair about 4 years ago from a pretty well-known country singer who was privy to the details. Vince and Amy were an "item" for quite some time before anyone around them caught on.

FWIW, I can't speak to the Amy Grant/Christian music industry, but I've learned firsthand not to look to the country music biz for examples of marital fidelity.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Vince and Amy were an "item" for quite some time before anyone around them caught on.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> That makes me sad. I really want to believe that there wasn't anything going on but when you read the way they talk about how they felt, etc... well, it's pretty hard to believe they were "innocent." I think I hate the way they continuously claim to be "innocent" and almost as if they just "had" to divorce and then marry each other. It's like they are "victims" of their romantic notions towards each other (that whole "soulmate" thing).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">FWIW, I can't speak to the Amy Grant/Christian music industry, but I've learned firsthand not to look to the country music biz for examples of marital fidelity.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Or the Christian community period, which is sad. I do realize that Satan "attacks" Christians pretty hard, but I also think there are alot of people who are "Christian" in name only and very few who are truly willing to follow God's Word especially when it comes to marriage and divorce. Our "happiness" is the mantra of the day, and if something doesn't make us "happy," we convince ourselves that it must not be right and that God will "understand" if we do our thing to make us happy (i.e. divorce, have affairs, etc).

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What this says to me is that Amy and Vince are just people, like you and me, and just because they have been put in the 'lime light' they feel like they need to justify their behavior.

Justification to themselves, or anyone else, isn't going to make it right.

So, the problem is - someone (the media) is out there putting them in the spotlight and asking them questions for which THEY can't justify - and it isn't fair to ask them to either. People should leave them alone. They are no better than anyone else, and probably realize how much they have screwed up --- but like anyone else, they can't fix it - they have to move forward.

If they admit at this point that their lives are screwed up --- it's a public admission --- more so than the rest of the world. If I screw up and tell the press nobody is going to care. But Amy Grant - sheesh it's a news media frendzy.

They are just people who screwed up too. Why make them bigger than they are just because they are well known? Who are we to judge them?

Jan

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Mr.Miew,


--I'm having a hard time believing that she, as a Christian, would do that. 2 weeks ago I nearly followed through on separating from my wife until the Holy Spirit entered me the morning of Nov.25th.--

TR-- I take it your a new Christian?? As you grow in your faith and understanding you will come to realize that as a Christian you now have two natures that struggle against each other--

the natural man--your nature before salvation--and the spiritual man--the Spirit of God in you now as a Christian--and as your grow in your faith and service to God--satan attacks even more-because you become a threat to him and his kingdom--satan loves it when Christians fall--especially Christians in the media--because it causes others to compare their lives to their own-
to where they make comments like--"they are no better than me, a NON-Christian--why should I follow Christ??"

And even though that comment is partly true--in that they really are no better than non-Christians, they are still people--they are still human--and I think more importantly--they are still sinners--who struggle with following their own will or following God's will--

We tend to compare ourselves to others--and satan loves that--as long as we compare ourselves to
"others" and judging them based on how we think they should live--we are not comparing our own lives to Christ--and how He wants US to live-

And as long as the world continues to hear condemnation coming from the mouth of Christians
to other Christians, and even non-christians--and no compassion and grace being extended, they only see God's judgement--and not His abounding grace and mercy for a fallen world--

being a christian doesn't automatically make us choose to follow God's will for our lives--we still have to choose to follow Him on a daily basis..God doesn't force us to follow Him--yes, He does prompt our hearts to do so--but we don't always listen and follow that prompting--

It is not up to us to judge the hearts of others and whether they feel remorseful for their actions
or not, just as with Vince Gill and Amy Grant, and their former spouses--we don't know the motives behind their actions or their words--we don't know whether they are remorseful or not--

But there is a verse of Scripture that holds true even for them--"there is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus"
meaning that yes, even though they sinned--if they have truly sought God's forgiveness God forgives them--

Peachy, tell me something--with all that your husband has put you through..If he ended his relationship with OW and asked you to forgive him and take him back--would you??

Would you be able to truly forgive him, never to bring his betrayal up again? never to condemn him
for his actions?? Or would you hold it over his head judging him for the rest of your lives??
Would he have to continually prove to you over and over how sorry he is-- always feeling condemned--never good enough because he betrayed you?

Or would you be able to extend grace, accepting that He is a sinner, in need of a Savior, who struggles with following his will and God's will for him--just like YOU and ME??

We all have different things we struggle with--they range anywhere from pride to sexual sins and thousands of things in between--even putting our jobs, families or what others think about us before what God thinks of us--makes them our god--And in God's eyes they are ALL SIN!!

As Christians, we aren't supposed to compare our lives to others, or worry about what other people think about us or our choices--we are only to be concerned about if OUR lives are pleasing to God--
and when we do that--and when we judge ourselves by God's standards alone--we tend to be more compassionate of others when they fall--because we understand--"only but by the grace of God go I"

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Thanks TR for taking the time to write that long message. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I've been a Christian for 10 years and married 20 years. W has been a Christian when she was a little girl. When I said that the Holy Spirit entered me on Nov.25th I should have said re-entered. I've been dealing with so much spiritual warfare over the years that I felt distant from God. I've gone through at least 10 affairs during the 20 years. I recently realized that I was molested when I was a pre-schooler so that accounts for my mannerisms and how I have conducted myself over these years. Its odd that I'm now coming to grips with it as I'm turning 46.

I'm also taking the Top Gun Christian Basic training program at the moment to straighten myself out . Since taking this course and learning how to be a proper Christian I've been encountering so much internal conflict between the old 'me' and the 'new' me. Old as in old habits. When the Holy Spirit entered me I felt so happy and felt so cleansed! It was a close runner-up to how I felt after getting baptised in '93.

Anyways it was suggested to me that if Amy Grant can get a divorce then its ok for a Christian to do it. In turn I totally rejected such a notion!
A sin is still a sin no matter how you try to whitewash it.

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A sin is a sin ----

But, as Christians we are forgiven sinners. I think that is the issue TR was attempting to offer an explanation for.

I think you might want to remember the that no sin is greater than any other. That is the real deal here - just because Amy divorced, doesn't mean her sin is greater than your sin or adultry, or mine of omission - for instance.

Justification doesn't whitewash sin - - -

There is no justification --- only forgiveness.

Jan

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SJ, you're right that as Christians we are sinners and have been forgiven...but I remember reading a passage that Paul says that since we are forgiven does that allow us to keep on sinning? He said no but I feel that since God knows that we are not perfect Jesus would still represent us on judgement day. Correct me here if I'm wrong.

Now I was very, very close to separating and I knew that it was a similar reason to what Amy Grant used. If the Holy Spirit hadn't stepped in I would have been a goner.

Anyhow I emailed my TG group leader asking to meet over coffee and discuss it with him.

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I don't believe we should continue in sin - but I also believe that God realizes we aren't perfect, and that's why he sent his son once to die that we might be forgiven. IF his son had to die every time I sin - he'd run out of sons... I'm sure. Cuz I'm not perfect - by any stretch - and for some reason everytime I turn around I'm sinning in one way or another - even when I don't plan it that way.

I just praise the Lord for the GRACE of God - because without it I'd burn in Hell.

Jan

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Jan,

The type of judging that is wrong is when we stand in condemnation of someone and we act/think/say that we are better than them or that our sin is not as great. It is the type of judging that is prideful.

There is another type of "judging" and the Bible even talks about how we, as the body of Christ ARE in fact, to judge/discern sin. In Matthew, it talks about how if someone is sinning, the Church is to confront that person and if that person does not repent, they are to be considered/treated as a nonbeliever. That is judging. But not the type mentioned above. It is the type that says, "What you are doing is unBiblical. You call yourself a Christian yet you are disgracing Christ's name, hurting his testimony, and hurting yourself and others." It is the type of judging that says this to someone with the hope that this person sees that and repents. It is not the type that throws stones or mocks or condemns or mistreats. It is done in love.

It is the type of judging I hope my friends do to/for me if I am in sin and can't/don't see it.

Yes, Amy & Vince are people and sinners just like me and you. BUT they are also ministers. Amy's music career has mostly been one of ministry. She sings about God and she has done so in churches and Christian venues. She has ministered to both adults and to youth as well.

That is why her divorce caused such "frenzy." She is a public Christian person. The Bible says, "To whom much has been given much will be expected." We as Chrisitans, influence others and we represent Christ.

It's just like Mr. Miew pointed out. If Amy is a Christian and can divorce, why can't he? IF she had stayed in her marriage and had a testimony in that regard, then others might be saying, "Look at her. She was in a bad marriage but didn't divorce. If she can do it, I can." Instead, others, including Chrisitans, see her testimony... one which is very public and well-known, as... if she is a Chrisitan and divorced to be with her "soulmate," so can I.

YOu said,"Why make them bigger than they are just because they are well known?"

Because they have greater responsibility. There is also a verse that says how many of us should not be "teachers" because they have a greater responsibility. They have greater influence and greater potential, as a result, to harm the name of Christ (which they have done).

It's not about condemning or stoning them or putting ourselves above them. But it also is not about closing our eyes and saying, "Don't look. Don't say anything. They are just people." And then what? We are so afraid sometimes of being "judgemental" that we are like those monkeys with our hands over our ears, eyes, and mouths... and because we say nothing or hold no one accountable, the world hears nothing different... other than things like "it's okay to divorce."

<small>[ December 04, 2003, 04:33 PM: Message edited by: LoveMyEx ]</small>

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So, the problem is - someone (the media) is out there putting them in the spotlight and asking them questions for which THEY can't justify - and it isn't fair to ask them to either.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No one "put" them in the spotlight. They are in the spotlight and want to be in the spotlight and the careers they have chosen have put them in the spotlight... by "spotlight" meaning a place/position of great public influence. I see it more as they have put themselves in the spotlight by nature of their careers (and doing interviews, etc-- no one "made" them be in the public eye). It's not bad they are in the spotlight, but there is responsibility that comes with that ESP. as Chrisitians.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">People should leave them alone. They are no better than anyone else, and probably realize how much they have screwed up --- but like anyone else, they can't fix it - they have to move forward.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There are consequences to any sin/wrongdoing. We don't know their stories behind their divorces,etc. But they are adults, and adults in the "spotlight," and I'm sure they know and expected that they would be discussed and that people would be upset (Christian people). They may never in this lifetime by "left alone." Who knows. You and I can't control who talks about what. But that is a consequence of their divorce/remarriage and I tend to think they have accepted it.

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Mr. Miew,

That's great that you have accountability/help in your life as you continue to grow and deal with the past. I believe God will bless you for making the decision to work on things vs. divorce. Is is much harder to work on things but the rewards/blessings are far greater than not working on them.

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Lots of good discussion here about celebrity, Christianity, and remarriage.

I think Amy & Vince will be on Larry King Live tonight, 9 PM eastern on CNN...to discuss these very things. I wonder how they'll explain it in an interview at this point? CSI is a rerun so I just might watch Larry King.

<small>[ December 04, 2003, 06:28 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>

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Thanks for the info avondale25. I'll catch it later tonight. Since I'm on the west coast I'll see it after you.

I'm meeting my group leader for coffee tonight after he drops his wife off at a church function. He's been through a divorce already and mentioned that while giving his testimonial to the group.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by avondale25:
<strong> Lots of good discussion here about celebrity, Christianity, and remarriage.

I think Amy & Vince will be on Larry King Live tonight, 9 PM eastern on CNN...to discuss these very things. I wonder how they'll explain it in an interview at this point? CSI is a rerun so I just might watch Larry King. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

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