I have tried Plan A for almost 2 months. She has sworn it's over with OM (who is an out of state co-worker). They have previously met on several business trips. I have asked her to just let me know when and if you will be working with him but she has yet to do this. OM came to our town 3 weeks ago, they worked together and later that day I went to the hotel he was staying at. I knew she was also there but she told me she was at another hotel while talking to me on her phone and I then found her inside the lobby. No excuse from her except she did not think I would have understood they were just working together and wanted to protect me. She has been with this guy ~9 months. I threatened to tell the OMW but I never did. She is scared of filing since she knows I will then tell.

We have not made love in 5 weeks, I am getting no affection, attention, etc. Previous to D-Day, we had a pretty good fall, 9th anniversary came, went to Vegas, etc.

I have hired a PI for this evening as she/he are at another meeting out of state. This will solidify for good what I already know...but I have been having a very hard time emotionally detaching from her and our relationship. Most recently (last 10 days) she has been more warm, we have booked another trip together, spent Turkey day together, etc. But no real physical contact or intimacy.

She also met a single man 6 months ago (out of state) who she has maintained contact with and I heard from a friend she was going to try and hookup with him this coming weekend while she is in NYC. I confronted her last Saturday with regards to this single man and she said she has been trying to hook-up her friend with him and she would no longer speak with him. She has hidden her cell calls from me and has yet to demonstrate honesty to me to build trust.

Any words of wisdom? My love bank is pretty much empty. What to do? I think I already know, met with my lawyer on Monday. Oh, happy holidays.....

I would suggest Plan B. Your WW doesn't know what she wants, but she isn't respecting you. If you are so inclined, I would date. She is a cake eater and thinks she can do what she wants without risking the loss of you. She isn't just in a fog with OM. She wants to play. You can't stop that or talk her out of it. There is no sense of urgency for her. I would say force yourself to enjoy the company of other women.

I have been in sitch for a while, I regret having waited for my WW. If she had made a mistake and got involved with someone else, I would stand for her, but she like your WW respects no rules and considers no one's feeling but her own. See how she likes it while you play. It won't be easy. You may have to force yourself. Others may disagree, but this is my opinion.

Good luck and my prayers are with you. No one should have to suffer this way.

Firebird:

"I would say force yourself to enjoy the company of other women."

This is an extraordinarily BAD idea, and it's way off the MB track.

-2long

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2long:
<strong> Firebird:

"I would say force yourself to enjoy the company of other women."

This is an extraordinarily BAD idea, and it's way off the MB track.

-2long </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yup, you are right. It is WAY off the MB track. But I don't know if it's all that bad an idea. Give you an example from my own cousin. He was married about 20 years. He was being taken for granted by his W. She was very good looking then. She got a night job at a food store (her idea). My cousin was and is probably the finest man I know and extremely family orientated. He treated his wife like gold. She met a policeman at her work, started an affair with him an eventually moved in with him. My cuz was crushed. After a few months waiting for his wife to come home and love him again, he decided two could play at that game and started going to dances, met some woman who loved his company. He told me he didn't have sex with any of them. When he stopped chasing his W, she got curious and start to try to make contact with him. He didn't take her back right away but continued to date, yet be very pleasant and accepting of his W's affair. Soon she felt so threatened by other women cutting off her way back home she lost interest in her "soul mate", dumped him and begged my cuz to take her back.

She used to be a flirt. She isn't anymore. She is the wife he always wanted but never had. She knows now that if she doesn't keep my cuz happy, any number of lonely women will.

If a woman is hurting because her ENs aren't met and takes refuge in an OM, that is one thing, but if she is lying, plotting, having multiple affairs that's a player. I don't think standing for someone like that will work, because they are having too much fun and always feel like that can pick up with the BS anytime they choose and then start playing again whenever they feel like it. They only feel their own pain, not yours. Unless they feel their security with the BS is threatened they completely enjoy their freedom. With the BS waiting in the wings, they have nothing to loose.

It's radical, but it is an alternative. Besides it isn't my idea. It is from MC Homer McDonald, the author of "Stop Your Divorce". Much of his principals are like that of MB, but not the standing part. There is no pressure on the WS and no LBing. You treat them nice and with respect but you go on with your life. You can't loose too badly. Either you get your WS, who came back because they really want you and is afraid of loosing you or you find new love with someone else who really wants you. But you don't suffer in silence for months, years or the rest of your life. Different strokes for different sitches.

Thanks for the comments. I am not sure I could go out and meet other W at this point since I am most concerned about saving my M. But I seem to be the only one.

She has been warmer to me lately...last week she said she was trying...of course, I can't really say she is except we are planning future dates/trips......not sure if this is just because the holidays are coming up. She returns this evening and leaves again tomorrow for NYC....where I think she may be plotting to try and reach this single guy who I tried calling today to no avail....I have also finally decided to contact the OMW and start acting for myself and not worrying about how upset my W will be.

Thanks again. Boy, that would be something if I met someone else right now!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Nature:
<strong> Thanks for the comments. I am not sure I could go out and meet other W at this point since I am most concerned about saving my M. But I seem to be the only one.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nature:
Only you know all the particulars of your sitch and about your W. We all want to help and will give suggestions to you. But in the end it is up to you.

Read everything you can from MB and weigh all the advice you get and then try to do what you head tells you to do rather than your emotions. Also, if you still have doubts, talk to S. Harley or Cerri. S. Harley has been a great help to me. I really need to speak to him again myself.

I'm no marriage guru. If I were, I would fix my own marriage. But I'm still trying. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Best of Luck to You,

Nature:

I think your W is saying that "she's trying" because she IS. My W said the same thing, many times. It wasn't enough, at first. It is, now. Not because anything fundamental has changed in what that means 2 her when she says it (though I think it does), but mainly because it means more 2 me because I'm LISTENING 2 her better than I ever did before.

Affairs really don't happen in vacuums. You aren't responsible for your W having an A, but you are partially responsible for the condition of your M.

Firebird. Dating while the WS is off having an A might work for some, but it's not MB, and I will continue 2 urge Nature NOT 2 consider it because there are so many reasons why he shouldn't, not least of which is I can tell he's a sensitive man. He should cultivate that trait 2 restore his M, not 2 risk hurting himself and another woman by having an A with her while he's still married. Also, his W hasn't left. In my view, this is because she doesn't want 2. Sure, that means she's fence-sitting, and it's hard for Nature 2 watch that, but being balanced on the fence like that, she may be as likely 2 be pushable over 2 THIS side as over 2 the OM's side. And this is where it's up 2 Nature, and any counselor he might be working with, 2 decide which way 2 push right now.

-ol' 2long

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2long:
<strong>

Firebird. Dating while the WS is off having an A might work for some, but it's not MB, and I will continue 2 urge Nature NOT 2 consider it because there are so many reasons why he shouldn't, not least of which is I can tell he's a sensitive man. He should cultivate that trait 2 restore his M, not 2 risk hurting himself and another woman by having an A with her while he's still married. Also, his W hasn't left. In my view, this is because she doesn't want 2. Sure, that means she's fence-sitting, and it's hard for Nature 2 watch that, but being balanced on the fence like that, she may be as likely 2 be pushable over 2 THIS side as over 2 the OM's side. And this is where it's up 2 Nature, and any counselor he might be working with, 2 decide which way 2 push right now.

-ol' 2long </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'll concede that. Standing is a MB concept and this is a MB site. I gave an alternative point of view, that seems to have some validity.

In any case, I want, we all want the same thing for Nature and ourselves. That is to be in a happy, loving and faithful relationship with our spouses.

Thanks for your point of view.

Nature:
I don't mean to turn you off of MB, that is not my objective. If I didn't believe in MB I wouldn't be here myself. My W and I have been separated for 10 months and I really want her back. MB works for many and I want sucess for my own marriage. Every M, every W, every marriage is different and only you will see all sides of your marriage.

Hi I would just like to say that Firebird's suggestion does have some marit. I was in plan B and not having alot of sucsess with it. I did ask a women out that I know and it did alot for me and my M. We just went for coffee once and for a drink another night. For me it was great to feel wanted again and get back some of my self-astem. Just having the company of an atractive woman does wonders for the male ego. When my ww came home to pick up some things and found her phone # her attitude changed drasticly. She is home now and we are working on recover.

A small note I was very very honest to the woman I went out with that I wasn't looking for any kind of relationship other then company. You just can't hurt other people to solve your own problems. So if you do date make your intetions clear.

<small>[ December 05, 2003, 02:03 PM: Message edited by: Recovering from A_mess ]</small>

Thanks for all of the comments. Here is a current update. I will mention right off the bat that she has previously told me it is over with the OM and all the while was considering D or S due to our "compatibility" issues (raising a family, lack of respect for her, I don't listen well, etc.). And ultimately saying she really did not know what to do.

Anyway, here goes.

My W returned last evening with a hug/kiss. We spent 30 minutes in our hot tub with some wine and discussed her trip. I kissed her a few times in the tub (it's been 40 days since we ....) and talked some more and then ate dinner and then retired to bed. I woke at 4AM and started snuggling which led into a heavy makeout session...but ultimately she was not comfortable or ready enough to go further. However, this seemed like progress...maybe just a little at least physically. She had to get ready early for this shopping trip weekend in NYC. We spent quite a bit of time talking; we set a date night for next Friday at a local restaurant. This is on top of us attending a wine/cheese event next Wednedsay when she returns from this trip. We then discussed what is she going to buy me, what are the plans with her friends, where is she staying, etc. We parted ways with a big hug, kiss, ILU, more affection, hugs, etc. She then called me while she was on the plane and we talked a little further. She will call later when she lands. I going to tell her to please understand my concerns with regards to trust and do not disappoint me.

Are these signs of rebounding? Or just diversionary tactics? She still did not produce cell phone calls which I requested last week to show in action how honest she needs to be me with me. This talk of the future, dating, etc. has not occurred in over a month. The last month I was attempting to meet EN but was really doing the 180 list as much as I could. Did this have some effect?

The OM and his W are also going on this trip. I have not yet contacted her since I feel this will really set us back. The OM was apparently in a panic a month ago because he saw me at his hotel where he was staying for business. My W was there for this meeting and she did not stay there. And then the last 10 days she has been warming up to me...I wonder if he jilted her??? And now she is slowly coming back to me? What about this single guy---I tried calling him yesterday but got no answer.

Anyway, thanks for any and all feedback, it really does help.

If I were you I would tell the OMW. I had conserns about telling people at first too but once realized that it wasn't my responsiblity to keep her A a secret I told EVERONE. Yea at first she said "You just made it worse" and "I don't know if we can work this out now" and all that other crap they come up with but in the end it was for the best. First off if the OMW knows she will be keeping him on a shot leash on him during this trip so you will have less to worry about. Second your W will be less likly to start another A with this single guy if she knows that her dirty secrets are't safe with you. Some how you have to get NC going on here between her and OM or you'll just drive your self crazy.

Your story is similar to mine, your left flaping in the wind wile she desides what she wants. What I did was go to plan B and if she comes back she has to be an open book and have NC with OM.

This is really the tough part....letting the OMW know....I almost believe it is over by my W recent actions toward me...but maybe not. I seem to want to please her more than ever and this action may just send her over the fence.

Boy, decisions, decisions....exposure is probably the way to go. Should I wait till she returns to see how things progress between us?

I would really like a true MC to evaluate this.

Thanks, again!!

Nature,

Then give Steve H. a call. Remember counseling is cheaper than divorce.

Good Luck

I think it is diversionary. I also agree with 2 long. I don't think that you should also become a player. I say this from a woman's point of view. I do think you need to work it out with your wife but also think as the "lord" of the home you have right ask some things of her. If she is really interested in this marriage,then I think that you should ask her to look for other employment that does not require her to travel. Let her know that her traveling is not good for your marriage and this constant contact with OM is also not good for your marriage. You deserve a real relationship with a real person and for you to start to play games will not get you that. Think of the hurt that you will cause those innocent women who are looking for a good man. They don't deserve to be hurt because your wife is hurting you.

For the record, I say tell the OMW anyway. It needs to be out in the open. He is not going to leave his wife(probably for financial reasons), so your wife is only warming up to you so you can look like you are lovey-dovey when the 4 of you show up at this event. She is either trying to make the OM jealous because she will be jealous of his being with his wife; or the OMW is suspicious and they are trying to reassure her so OM says to her "see she and her husband are in love, she is not interested in me". And ultimately you and the OMW just become fronts for the two of them to spend the evening together. I say stop this farce, blow the cover off this nonsense. Be real in everything that you do. Do not tell out of a spririt if vengeance, tell because you want to save your marriage. Your wife needs to know that she can not treat you like you are a marshmellow, she has to respect you or she has to divorce you so that you can find the love and respect that you deserve. I will be praying for your situation.

buster12

mr. N,
you wrote.

Are these signs of rebounding? Or just diversionary tactics? She still did not produce cell phone calls which I requested last week to show in action how honest she needs to be me with me. This talk of the future, dating, etc. has not occurred in over a month. The last month I was attempting to meet EN but was really doing the 180 list as much as I could. Did this have some effect?

here's an answer it may pay to consider. is this a diversionary tactic? YES, in the sense that she is playing for time...trying to figure out what's best for her...so naturaly your inclination is to sit back to wait & see...hoping...WRONG!!!! absolutely the wrong thing to do is this situation!

since the begining you have allowed your W to chose the music for this little dance and while you've shown her that you are a patient caring man you haven't as yet shown her the other side of you. the strong confident man that wants her back but not at any price!

what's been missing is a pro-active approach to re-aquaint your W with who you are as both a man and husband. you've allowed her to feel no wrong for her acts and so she's placed the responsability for her acts on your shoulders! in fact you have given her activities your tacit approval by not taking the steps that she probably expected you to take in this kind of situation.

you must absolutely with out any further time passing inform all involved about what has been going on. the OM's wife has to know as well any all others who may be in postion to play a role in bringing the truth out for all to see. and yes! she will be angry but right now your living in a fool's paradise...hoping that she will return.

but please consider this. even if she does return to the marriage, if she returns feeling that she is the one making a sacrifice and decides that she is therefore entitiled to continue behaving in any way she choses...what kind of marriage will it be?

you've made yourself so amenable to what ever decision she makes that you have lost site of what your real goal should be...a new relationship built on mutuale respect, trust and honesty. (and no i didn't forget love because i think that the love is already there in both of you). in fact, love in my opinion is never really the issue in most of these situations...the real issues are for more mundane...in short things we take for granted.

right now my friend you need to begin making yourself less available to just any decision she makes and eess approving. you really have to begin showing her that you are a strong independant man who wants to save the marriage but NOT at any cost.

coach