I've got the paperwork all ready for a divorce -- lawyer selected, documentation pulled together, etc. -- filing is not a problem.

I don't have to be concerned about whether or not I should have divorced. We are on our 3rd MC, and I think that if this doesn't work nothing will. Our M has been a disaster since day 1. I can remember about 10 days when I was happy with him.

I was so committed to our M that I was going to stay married no matter what. Well, I got no matter what. My WH has one more chance with this MC to show some care for me. The last MC said the concept of care doesn't make sense to him.

Well, I am reeling from the realization that I will destroy myself and our children if I accept him as he is. So -- I need to face reality and move on. I give it maybe 4 to 6 weeks.

SO -- ANY TIPS ON BEING NEWLY DIVORCED? What was helpful in telling the kids? (My 9 year old daughter just recently reminded me that I had told her I'd never get divorced.) What do I tell people when they ask? Since I am never ever going to remarry, how do I build a social life? Right now, I am not enjoying the benefits of married life and my only social life is during the work day with other stay at home Moms -- and those who know of my marital plight have distanced themselves and I don't blame them. Our kids go to a Catholic school. Almost no one is divorced.

I have gained 30 pounds in 2 years. My face is all broken out. The house is a mess. I simply fell apart. So how do I pull myself together? How do I face reality? I am thinking of the Biblical saying, "The truth shall set you free." The truth is that my H cares not at all for me and very little for the children and I have destroyed myself and hurt the children by staying with him. It's time to move on.

<small>[ December 19, 2003, 02:43 AM: Message edited by: broken heart and arm ]</small>

Okay, I almost never say this, but, here I go, saying it! The man has seriously physically hurt you. Statistics show he will do it more and more. Sheesh, he got away with breaking your arm...you still wanted to be with him. When he is sure of you again, next time he might do something worse. Or even hurt the kids. No MAN hurts a lady like that, even if he IS in the wrong and she badgers him about it.

Counselling three times and it still isn't working...one of you isn't listening, and it seems like it is him. If he doesn't want to be helped, no counsellor is gonna get through. You know this, or you wouldn't be asking the question you asked in the topic line.

How do you get through a process like this? A day at a time, honey, just like how you got through the last two years. You may actually feel some relief, but probably not for a while. I have been divorced nearly a year, and after all that time with my X, it is only recently that I have felt like I had a RIGHT to my own life again.

Kids do tend to think in absolutes. But they also listen to the honest truth too. If you are able, sit down and talk to your child about what it is that makes you unhappy with your life as it is now; it can be done without canning the X too much, and you do not want to do that, as he is the child's father, after all.

My children remember the fights my X and I had towards the end, and most certainly do not want to live with that again. They know NOW we are happier than we were, but of course did not understand it when it was new. Please keep this in mind. Children take a very long time to get over this. Mine are coping, but over it? I don't think so.

You need to set a good example for them in all you do. A very wise counsellor told me once that my kids would heal when I did. As I have healed, so have they. Think about it. And do what you have to do.

Love and light,

Jacky

<small>[ December 19, 2003, 07:19 AM: Message edited by: Nina too ]</small>

The idea behind mc as I understand it is to find help with creating a healthy marriage. If you've already decided to divorce, mc is a waste of time. Besides, the books I've read about abusive relationships indicate that mc is a really bad idea. At BEST, they'll become better abusers, not better husbands.

It's been my experience that casual acquaintances don't ask why you're getting divorced, and if they do ask, it's none of their business! Unless, of course, it's a person you choose to confide in. That would be different. People who know you will already know why you're divorcing without asking why. One answer I've had ready for an occasion that's never arisen is "even the Bible makes allowances for divorce, and I believe my marriage qualifies." I too once had the 'stay married no matter what' mindset. I was selling myself short and settling for wayyyy less than a marriage should be. I don't know what all's involved with the Catholic belief system, but for heavens sake, if the standard is to stay married no matter what, that's what the bible would say! Why would the allowances for divorce be listed if they're not to be utilized?

When I was at my lowest point(s), I pulled myself up by placing self care as the rule for the day. Your house is reflection of your life, and if it's a mess, your problem is far and beyond a messy house. The good news is, you can start with your house and make things better. It's not a cureall by any means, but definitely a jumpstart. Go to flylady.net for help. It'll get you on the right track. And forget about mc! This is no time to be doubleminded. If you want a divorce, make it your priority and your focus.

<small>[ December 19, 2003, 10:03 AM: Message edited by: lonesome heart ]</small>

The new MC only takes cases involving abuse. The outlook is grim, but there is hope if WH is willing to change. The sad part is that he thinks I'm the problem. Well, I do have a problem getting over the A. The abuse I can forgive.

If this doesn't work out, I can move on without looking back and create a life for me and the children.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The abuse I can forgive.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How can you forgive some one who physically and mentally abuse you? He did it once and he will do it again. I agree with Nina, a woman should not be abused especially when kids are involved. You must take care of yourself and your kids, be strong for them.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If this doesn't work out, I can move on without looking back and create a life for me and the children </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Start rebuilding now, learn by reading alot of post in this forum, it has alot of great advice from people who has been where you are now. Take care of yourself and the rest will fall into place. It will take time but time will heal all wounds. Our WS will eventually realize one day what they have lost. I know that for a fact because my XW too left me and the kids for her own emotional needs. She has said many times how much she has regretted what she did, but cannot find a way to fix it.
Divorce is only a piece of paper, I still love my XW as well as our kids. My XW knows that I am a good father and was a good husband, I never physically and mentally abused her, but we both spent too much time with our kids that we forgot about each other. Instead of talikg about it, she allowed OM to convince her she was not happy and he would give her what she wanted.

Eleven months later, she is alone, she gaved up her kids and her family to be with OM, he hooked himself up with someone else. Just remember work on yourself, never show you are weak because your WH will see it and use it against you.

He's working on the abuse. I see improvement. The A -- well, you don't really know unless you are with the other person 24X7. You enter marriage with trust and confidence, and the A destroys that. The abuse was right in front of me, and yes -- often in front of the children, but the affair was behind my back.

go to www.divorcecare.org ... find the local support group. They have excelent 13 weeks video tapes and best of all ... you will find the best support group you would ever find elsewhere.

-rh-

It turns out that the church where I take my kids for care while I go to MC has a divorcare group. Thanks for the advice!

Any other advice would be welcome!

broken H & A - newly divorced is a tough one. For everyone and especially for the kids. I am newly divorced after physical abuse, which my x-husband tore my rotator cuff, which he denies to this day. He says it was my fault. But I have had to experience the everyday pain, and the surgery, and the continuing physical therapy and tests.

Hon, the first thing you have to do, is set boundaries. That is the thing that I had the hardest time doing. I didn't want to set boundaries, cause I wanted him around. But since I have started setting boundaries, I am moving ahead. I didn't realize this was so important in improving yourself. The good people here told me over and over to set boundaries. And now I can actually see myself in the mirror instead of a woman that is scared, lied to, and betrayed. I am starting to see the beautiful petite woman that I am. I have a kind, thoughtful heart. I have so much love to give to a man that wants me for me, and not what he wants.

Hon, the first thing, is to get counseling for yourself and the kids. My kids are having a hard time with the divorce, but I talk to each of them individually. I tell them the facts, and if they don't believe me, that is their problem. I have stated to them over and over that I have not lied to them. That their father is the one that has not been telling the truth here and there. He has told some of the truth, but still denies his faults, which is the problem of a controller. And now they are not on me about things that their dad has been saying.

The second thing hon, is to start losing some weight. When you see yourself in the mirror and see the beautiful body coming out of the extra weight, you will have some wonderful self-esteem. When I found out about my hsubands affair, I lost weight and was underweight. I couldn't eat, cause I would vomit. Which I did many times. I couldn't eat food, thinking about my husband lusting in bed with the other woman and telling me to my face that I was not sexually endowed as the other woman. Hey that hurt really bad, and my x still doesn't believe that it should of hurt me. But you know, he is the one that is wrong, and any woman that their husband said those cruel words to their wife, would of felt the same way as I did. It is the person who said the words that has the problem. Even his other woman would of been very hurt by his disregard of feelings.

Loose the weight hon, and start walking if you possibly can. Now for your face being messed up. Do you have Rosacea? I do, and mine flared up with the stress and crying. I was red all over, and my face was blotchy, and I had pimples. I still get this, when the stress gets really bad, which it has on and off. Part of the Rosacea syndrome. Go to a dermatologist and one thing they can do is have blood test drawn to find out if you have Rosacea for sure. The dermatologist just looked at me and said I had it. It runs with fair skin, light colored eyes (I have blue) and I have light brown, blond hair. It is a hereditary disease, but who knows who had it, cause no one realized the disease until the last 50 years.

Another thing, is keep a diary of sorts to write your feelings down, and that way you can go back and read it later, maybe 3 months later. You will see the progress. I look back about 2 years ago and earlier, and I really see the progress that I have made.

Since I was abused, I am now attending school for abused women. Which is helping me to become a better person. I enjoy going to school and interacting with the young people. So odd to see professors that so young....!

Join an exercise program, or somewhere you can meet other women. As far as dating and meeting men, don't until at least 1 year from the divorce.

Hon, the betrayal is the hardest thing to get over. I still haven't gotten over the physical abuse my husband did to me, cause it is with me everyday. Your husband abused you and you will carry this with you for a long time. If he physically abused you you will have the scars the rest of your life. The abuse my husband did, has resulted in my having rotator cuff surgery, and now I have 3 holes in my shoulder. And still neck pain, and the left shoulder is having problems. I still have back pain, which I take spasm pills for and some days are worse than others. I will always have the scars to show the damage he has done. Hopefully, one day I will recover from the injury to the rest of my body, but see the abuser doesn't see how the abused suffers daily. My husband doesn't see the abuse, just continues on with his life, meeting women already, and having probably a relationship as we talk. He has shown through our divorce the lack of thoughtfulness. He has not done everything int he divorce papers, and still says he will do things in his own time. Not even trying to do like the judge stated.

So be prepared for the worse. The betrayer doesn't see anything wrong with the affair. He doesn't see anything wrong with abusing his wife mentally, physically, or emotinally. They are for themselves, and only themselves.

I sort of rambled on, but you have a lot of work to do Hon, and this is not going to be easy. There is a very rough road ahead, and many of us betrayed spouses have had to deal with this, and still are dealing with it even after the divorce.

Hold your head up, Hon. It is going to be hard. But you have to get self-confidence in yourself first, before you will take action. I know, I was one of thsoe that the good people here would get on me, and I would cry and cry. I am an emotional person. and for these people to get on me, while my hsuband was being a complete a&& h###, was tough. But I have toughened up now. I have realized that I am the only one that is going to take care of me. My husband is out for himself, and to show the kids that he can still pay for movies and dinner for the kids.

Make sure you get a good alimony check. Go for the high end. Make sure you get 1/2 of his social security. If he have dividends at work, make sure you get 1/2 of everything there. See my x is self-employed, and so there is nothing I can do about the work field. But if he was to ever work for someone else. I will get my share. I have become a fighter, cause my husband did lie, cheat, steal money from us (me and the kids), to pay his bimbo who has had more than 2 sexual affairs in her marriage. The first was with a minister of the church.

You are a good person, you deserve the world hon, but to find the world, you need to find yourself and then you will be able to continue on.

I am a lurker and new and soon to be divorced. I don't know what advice to give you. I need some advice myself. I have heard of divorce care though. I might give that a try. Good luck.

Faith4Me,
Thanks for your reply. It made me cry.

He bashed in my head on 1/3/98. I still have a lump in the middle of my forehead, which I see every day when I put on make-up, but it seems to lesson with each passing year and I even grew out my bangs in this past year. The arm was broken in 7 pieces, but the 4 inch scar is on the underside of my right arm and I don't notice it. The doctor did a great job -- no pain, total wrist flexibility, and the promise that there will be no arthritis as a result.

You are right about the weight. I feel lousy being so fat. I lost all self-respect trying to save this M. Maybe I know I am hanging onto an illusion. He has been varying degrees of nasty since literally our wedding night. By the end of the first month of M, I was in tears. And what did I do? Try to fix the problem by having kids, staying home, trying to support him in all his outside activities, forgiving the abuse, and now... Do I forgive the A, which hurt so much more? OR is that really the wrong question?

Can he ever be a good H to me? Can I ever feel intimate with him, emotionally vulnerable, happy?

PLEASE DO NOT BE DISCOURAGED. YOU HAVE WORTH REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOUR HUSBAND MAY HAVE SAID OR DONE TO YOU. THE BALL IS IN YOUR HAND. WITH GOD'S HELP YOU CAN TAKE BACK EVERYTHING THAT HAS BEEN STOLEN FROM YOU. I, TOO, WAS LIKE YOU AND OTHER WOMEN WHO WANTED MY MARRIAGE TO WORK AND SUFFERED PHYSICAL AND EMOTIONAL ABUSE AS RESULT OF STAYING.
THE TIME MUST COME WHEN THE ABUSE MUST END. IT MAY COME THROUGH SEPARATION OR DIVORCE.

DEAR SISTER, TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF. THIS IS A NEW BEGINNING FOR YOU. "GOD'S MERCIES ARE NEW EVERY MORNING"! TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO REFRESH YOURSELF AND YOUR CHILDREN. IT IS A TIME OF TRANSITION AND HEALING. TAKE THE LIMITS OFF AND DO SOMETHING YOU HAVE ALWAYS WANTED TO DO. ALLOW THE KIDS TO DO SOMETHING THEY HAVE ALWAYS WANTED TO DO. HAVE FUN!! TURN YOUR LEMON INTO LEMONADE!!

I WILL BE PRAYING FOR YOU! GOD BLESS!!!

Is he still at home? Do you own the house or are you renting?

He is still at home. We own. I can get him out of the house. I have the lawyer hired and the legal separation papers all prepared and at my brother's house. I am giving MC one last try. The last one said, "The concept of care doesn't make sense to him." So -- I think that the end of M could be as soon as the end of January, and I want to brace myself emotionally for giving up hope and moving on.

1. He feels that you are the problem.
2. He abused you.
3. He continues to ignore your needs, and demonstrate sufficient remorse (read problem # 1 again) to heal the marriage.

BHAA - you can't fix this marriage. The only thing you can do is work on you - being well, healthy, balanced.

A woman I consider a very dear friend found out her husband cheated on her AGAIN while she was pregnant. Since this was his 8th time cheating - and this one revealed a child from his first time cheating on her, now in her teens (XOW sought revenge for him not leaving the marriage and sued for back child support, even with another man's name on the birth certificate - I mean, it sounds bizarre, but I think I have read similar stories here from at least five other couples)...

My friend decided to just focus on breaking down the divorce process into bite-sized pieces; working on her physical well being, helping her children, and then added doing one documentation or separate household preparation thing a day. She applied for credit in her own name and got it. One day it was copying all the papers in the mortgage file. Another day, it was buying new bed sheets (some that his cheating body had never laid in before). One day it was flatware. Another day it was life and health insurance policy copies.

She gave her exit plan six months to a year. She wanted herself in tip-top physical shape by then, and she wanted her financials in order. She didn't allow herself time or effort in thinking about her cheating husband, or solving his crisis with the other woman. His problems were of his own making and he could clean them up. She was through fixing them. She also cut waaaaaayyyyy back on the domestic support. He could either wash his own dishes out, or he prepare his own breakfast-to-go. She no longer did both for him. The first day after she told him her new policy, he dumped his dirty dishes in the sink and went to bed. She washed them and left them on the counter by the sink, and the next morning was gone to the gym by the time he got up - no breakfast for him unless he fixed it himself. He tried to raise a stink about it, but she told him she only had time to do one or the other and she had given him his choice.

Interestingly enough, they are now happily married. Her version of the Divorcebusters 180 technique was marvelously done! He decided that cheating wasn't getting him what he wanted and he started earnestly seeking recovery.

But my friend was entirely prepared to go the distance through to divorce.

For you, yours is much more serious than just an affair, or two, or eight. He has demonstrated reckless disregard and malice toward your physical wellbeing. This is not reconcilable unless he is working a heck of a lot harder than you have ever ever indicated here on the boards.

I realize it's difficult, nearly impossible to get your head out of the abused spouse fog - that somehow it was your fault - that he's working on it. that he's not abusing you now... But reality is, he's happy as a clam that you are lacking in the confidence to kick him to the curb.

Take it in bite-sized steps, ok, hon?

KaylaAndy,
I appreciate your advice. I have broken down divorce into bite-sized pieces and have all the practical things done -- lawyer, paperwork, safety plan, purchase of large dollar amount items (tires for care, new sheets!, new cookware, etc.)

This is where I'm stuck. I'm scared of him. I told him yesterday that, back in May, I was so scared simply to tell him that I had a negative view of golf that I went to observe a restraining order hearing before I said it. He has managed to intimidate me into going along with anything he did, and the one thing I was unable to tolerate was open interest in another woman.

Now what? Extricating yourself from an abusive relationship isn't so easy. We have four kids. There hasn't been child abuse, so he would have visitation rights. He may well blame me for the fact that he is living in some apartment supporting five other people because I'm not Christian enough to get over an affair.

Ideally, I'd like ours to be a story of how even the worst of marriages can recover following the MB principles. He's reading His Needs/Her Needs. The last time he looked at it, he read the first chapter and said, "That describes my relationship with Sophia exactly." How cruel! And when I got upset about that, he was nonchalant. He could handle it. Now he is reading it to try to understand how we can have a better marriage, and I appreciate that. He previously has called Harley a "clown" because it was Harley, on his radio show, who recommended I call Sophia's husband, the things Tom has told me about his relationship with Sophia like she was saying she felt "passion" for him and the fact that he broke my arm when we were arguing about her were things I told Sophia's husband, he confronted his wife, and two weeks later he got out of Sophia that they were in fact having an affair.

The last MC said that Tom is a time bomb with "an underlying boiling pot of rage." If we mutuallly agreed on divorce, then I would be safer sharing parenting duties. That's my thinking. I am really scared. I am up at night and tired during the day. This is how I felt during the affair, with interrupted sleep patterns.

But, when it comes right down to it, you're right. Why didn't I kick him to the curb on the day he broke my arm? Why did I hide it for the sake of the M? That just enabled him to continue to abuse me and to continue the affair. Hope may spring eternal, but I've had two miserable years since then, and for what? I need courage to let him know that I have needs and opinions too. I told him that I have spent years asking myself, "Can I tolerate this?" and that is not the way to be happy in M. I won't allow myself to get in that trap.

I do think I'm coming out of the fog, however. My sister lives 1200 miles away, and she was the one I was tempted to tell that he broke my arm. When I told him that, he said, "If you tell her, I'll never speak with her again." I didn't -- until the affair came to light. BUT, can you believe that it never occurred to me that my sister wouldn't be real interested in speaking with a man who broke his sister's arm? I think about this from a different perspective now than I did two years ago.

<small>[ December 27, 2003, 12:47 AM: Message edited by: broken heart and arm ]</small>

In an abusive relationship, it's safer to object to cheating than it is to object to the abuse itself.

Does the Women's Shelter there have some specialized counseling for recovering your self-esteem and confidence after being abused for so long?

Another good therapist who is on line, who might help you is Dr Irene. Dr. Irene's Web Site

I've been reading your story for quite some time. The children are being abused by witnessing the abuse. If you don't think so, have them evaluated by a competent clinical psychologist who is recommended by the Shelter.

Speaking from experience, the violence in my parents' home shaped my entire life - from about three months before I was born when my father threw my mother into the kitchen table while she was pregnant with me. It didn't matter if he got physical - all he'd have to do to absolutely terrify me (that he was going to hurt my mother) was speak in a certain way and the expression on his face (pale white, blue lips, very intense eyes). I was a helpless witness for the first ten to 12 years to all sorts of violence between my parents. After that, I'd run and hide on the floorboards of the car.

Outwardly, my mother was a very confident woman - but not confident enough to file charges against him (this was 40+ years ago when law enforcement didn't get involved - and we lived out in the sticks anyway), or confident enough to leave.

So I know what it is like for your children to witness your relationship with your husband. There are ways to set things up to limit his ability to hurt them or you.

My H threw me down when I was 7 months pregnant. I was shaken because I thought I could have gone into labor. That was in March, 1996, when I was pregnant with our second child.

I am all too aware of the impact of this on our children. Our now 4 year old has a vivid memory of Daddy spanking Mommy and yelling G.. d... it. And this from a guy who sings in the church choir.

Our 9 year old has memories of hiding in the laundry basket.

I have promised myself this is it, no more MC if this one doesn't work. I think part of the reason for me posting so much is to get feedback that yes it is appropriate to move on at some point.

I was controlling. I tried to protect him from hurting me. It didn't work. He needs to control himself. If he doesn't, I need to move on.

This morning, my H said to our D about her desire to play videos: "I'm not going to let you be a vegetable." That is a disrespectful judgment. Do I want her to be intimidated into doing anything he wants becasue he has cut her down? No. It is Christian of me to protect her.

<small>[ December 27, 2003, 10:45 AM: Message edited by: broken heart and arm ]</small>