Just Peachy,

I for one check in here to make sure that you are doing ok. LovemyEx hasn't a CLUE! Hasn't a clue what you have gone through. The handle says it all! My suggestion to you is that when LovemyEX post to your post - IGNORE IT! It seems Lovemy EX wants to get to you. Do as I do when I see a post from LovemyEx - just skip it all togther.

After 3 years I am still angry at my EX. Angry for not spending any time with our children - angry for only thinking of himself. And let me tell you - I do VENT! Vent to family, friends, co-workers. We are only human Peachy, we have a right to be angry and be able to VENT when we are the abused.

When I read your posts, I see a woman healing and getting angry and fighting for what is right. How are you to heal?

You stay strong - you keep posting and VENTING because HOW are you suppose to heal without a VENT here and there. Goodness, if I didn't VENT I would go crazy!

Keep your chin up PEACHY!

LME, The first half of this message is directed toward you.

Why are you so put out that Peachy reacts to your message with hostility?

Why do you stalk every single post she makes with your doctrine of Forgiveness YOUR way instead of allowing Peachy to do this on her time table?

Why do those who disagree with you and your frequent 2x4 sessions on Peachy also deserve your wrath?

LME, Who are you? If you're not God, then allow others the respect of insight and to disagree with your opinion.

Peachy - this part of the message is directed toward you.

There's a saying in the 12 step program that would help you in this situation.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">TAKE WHAT HELPS AND LEAVE THE REST</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I understand why you can't do that right now, any more than you can ignore Jethro. But there will come a day when you can. That will be the day it will be totally safe for you to blast away on the boards about Jethro's latest antics. Until then, keep in touch via e-mail.

My best wishes for a peaceful Christmas and New Years.


<small>[ December 22, 2003, 07:29 AM: Message edited by: KaylaAndy ]</small>

I agree with LoveMyEx's analysis. Please see my post in Emotional Needs under "Strict View of POJA - Do Nothing" for further explanation. 12 step programs are wonderful in identifying issues and initial feedback but can offer no lasting or permanent freedom. I have no problem in referring folks to programs such as this initially, but after a period of time it's too comfortable there and time to move into complete freedom.

Some of the conflict I am seeing here are the differences in treatment methods. LoveMyEx, myself, and some others prefer the Biblical approach. Those unfamiliar with that are likely to be confused or intimidated, especially those who cleave to the role of "victim". I personally subscribe to the nouthetic form of counseling as shown in Jay Adam's "Competent To Counsel". Nouthetic counseling parallels with that of Scripture in that it acknowledges the issues but leads the afflicted person into personal accountability and ultimately, complete freedom.

<small>[ December 22, 2003, 01:21 PM: Message edited by: ex Princess Buttercup ]</small>

Hurting - I'm not surprised at you agreeing with LME.

But Princess, I am surprised at you. See, I remember old Humperdink's worst days of holding your stuff hostage and suing you for it, the outlaws picking your children up and how crazy that made you.

You used that time on this board to vent, get your bearings and then with eventual calmness gained from support and compassion from here, overcome the Snidley Whiplash, Boris and Natasha antics.

Why do you expect Peachy to do it faster than you? or differently? I think you'd have launched into orbit had you been clubbed like peachy has.

She has come a looonnnnnnggggggg way. The only time he gets to her now is when he has visitation.

Redhat,

I have no doubt that Peachy has come a long way. I also have NO doubt whatsoever that what she has experienced has been extremely painful. I would encourage those who believe that I am "juding" her or telling her "when" to heal, please go back and reread what I wrote. There is nowhere where I haven't acknowledged her pain, etc. I gave her SUGGESTIONS and cannot for the life of me figure out how I have "hounded" her or judged her, etc.

Believe me when I say this, I usually do not post to her posts. I know if I do, this will be the reaction. I didn't really want to post this time, but truly wanted to try to help her. If I failed, so be it. It's OKAY. I think everyone needs to take a deep breathe and ask themselves whey they are so upset that I suggested she forgive and let go.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know you don't have ill intention so does everyone that had posted here in this thread. However we are not trained conselor, we give out our opinions not advices. If it is declined you should understand that people has a choice to use what has worked for them. Not all situation are the same plus the individual involved in it too.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">EXACTLY!! I fully and completely agree and think this is an excellent point! No, no one here is a trained counselor (that we know of). Anyone who comes to post at these boards does so "at their own risk." That is why I suggested to Peachy she email her friends vs. taking the risk of receiving my advice or someone else's advice that she does not want to hear. I have no problem with my advice to her being declined and not sure where I said that I didn't.

I think there is alot of overreacting going on (which is how it was the last time too).

Kayla, you are overreacting (but this happened last time with alot of people, who seem to now have "learned their lesson" and don't post to peachy).

My post to Peachy is not one in which I have "coddled" her, and I won't do that. I have shown compassion and sympathy, and I have given her some constructive, proactive suggestions to help her with her anger.

I read Peachy's posts a year ago, when I had first joined. I was accused of being the other woman and left the board altogether because at that time in my life, I did not "need" that and I also thought it was really strange. In all honesty, I do not see her posts being any different than they were then and I see the same overreacting and accusations flying towards those who don't "coddle" her.

I doubt it will change.

Again... BEST OF WISHES!!

<small>[ December 22, 2003, 06:15 PM: Message edited by: LoveMyEx ]</small>

Best of Wishes (once again)!

<small>[ December 22, 2003, 06:17 PM: Message edited by: LoveMyEx ]</small>

LME - I took up your challenge - it would do you well to take a look at the carefully measured words and remove some thorns, varmints, and outright landmines that you laid for someone to consume with all your good intentions.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by LoveMyEx:
Peachy,

you are filled with rage, bitterness, and hatred, none of which are healthy. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Peachy posts bitterness at times. I have NEVER seen you give her credit for the times and the moments that she moves past these emotions and operates from a forgiveness place, before a new wound is inflicted that she must then do the necessary work to forgive. I referred to this as "stalking" because it appears you are waiting to catch them doing something wrong. You have not built sufficient rapport with her to give her the painful truth because you appear to only want to catch another Christian woman failing to live up to your standards of Instant Christianity.

Here is a truth that you would do well to memorize, internalize, if you truly care for those you post your Christian forgiveness to: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">People don't care how much you know, until they know how much you care.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If the only time you care to post to Peachy is to correct or chasten her, how is she going to be able to not esteem you as an enemy? If you received a steady dose of criticism, even couched in nice, flowery, Christian verse, say from someone who professed to care about you - would you be able to hear? Studies quoted by Harley and Smalley say that you must give praise, kindness and respect 10 times for every one criticism or correction. In other words you must care enough to catch them doing something right if you care to have influence.

More from you, LME </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
First of all, you need to forgive both your ex-husband and the OW. If you don't, you will probably always want revenge and your bitterness will only grow worse. It doesn't mean that you approve of their actions, that you are happy about it, that you are friends with him, etc. But it does mean that you let go of hatred towards them.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">so far so good - fundamental truth that she's heard from you and others before.

more LME </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Think of these verses: "Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord."

I have read your posts at times and felt fear... fear that you would do something violent against one of them. Forgive me if I misjudge you, but there are far too many stories of women and men, who in a moment of rage, have literally KILLED the object of their rage. There is a story right now on my AOL about a woman who killed her husband and it was over him seeing another woman. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Anger, rage, and bitternesss can be so dangerous. It can consume us to the point that we find ourselves doing something we wouldn't normally do, and that we'd later regret. It can also literally harm us physically, not to mention mentally. It can literally drive a person to insanity because your mind has no peace and no joy but is only consumed with negative emotions.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh My. Did you ever misjudge - to think you actually put this in writing and attributed YOUR fear to Peachy is beyond me. WAY bizarre!

More LME </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When I read of the woman in TX who ran over her husband, I imagine a woman who never in her life thought she'd do such a thing, but she was so consumed and in such grief, that she "snapped." I felt sorry for her, for her family, for everyone involved. God never intended these things to happen... adultery, betrayal, murder. As much as I empathized with the grief that I knew drove her to do what she did, the fact remains that she is in prison, a man is dead, and she has to live with that for the rest of her life.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again, Misapplied judgment. Don't impose your fears on the reality of the human being you just judged.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Forgiveness is often for our own good because it frees us from being literally enslaved by our hatred/anger. That is what I often see in your posts... a type of enslavement to your emotions.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is sheer nastiness, though I am pretty sure that you didn't mean it. How would you do as a grief counselor? "Buck up woman. So he threw you down the stairs, beat you, kicked you out into the cold with your child. Get on with your life. Stop being enslaved by your emotions."

Yes, I'm sure she'd hear you then.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The thing that God seems to hate the most in the Bible is self-righteousness. The only people that He ever called a "brood of vipers" were the Pharisees, because they judged others. They saw themselves as better. Even though "jethro" and the OW have done a great wrong, you are not their judge. You have, unfortunately, had to bear the pain of their wrongdoing... a pain and a wrong that you did not want. And, no, it's not "fair" in any way. But life is not "fair" period. Adultery is a very grievous sin. But judging and hatred are also sins. Try to let go of your desire to expose their sin and condemn them for it, and instead, just work on you and your relationship with son and your growth, healing, etc.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now you are putting Peachy in with the Pharasees who mocked the law. That went over like a lead balloon.

Do you really want to help Peachy? Monitor your own contributions here then. I struggle to respond at all to you because you remind me so very much of the religious zealot who claimed God told her that she could meddle in my marriage. So I struggle to give just honest, caring feedback to you, in the hopes that you really do want to help Peachy - not just bash her.

Your feedback needs to be balanced with noticing EVERYTHING - ESPECIALLY the progress. If you had noticed the progress, I very much doubt you would have made the inappropriate judgments about potential for murder.

Kayla, I think you and I will need to "agree to disagree."

My purpose here was to offer Peachy some advice/suggestions. I had no intent on getting involved in this... whatever you could call it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You have not built sufficient rapport with her to give her the painful truth</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now, that I'll give you. You're right, I don't have sufficient rapport with her, nor am I able to build it because she becomes defensive to my words. You can't build rapport if someone is defensive.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If the only time you care to post to Peachy is to correct or chasten her</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Kayla, in all fairness, what you see as "correcting" and "chastising," I do not. Some people spank their kids because they love them and see it as discpline. Others would literally say it was "child abuse." Different perspectives. That's what this comes down to. There are alot of different perspectives among people here on how to "help" Peachy. You view it one way. I view it another. We live in a world of people with different beliefs, views, and opinions. It happens.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you received a steady dose of criticism</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"Steady dose??" I wrote two direct replies to her plus gave a book suggestion and an article on forgiveness, and that's a "steady dose?" Hmmm...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Did you ever misjudge - to think you actually put this in writing and attributed YOUR fear to Peachy is beyond me. WAY bizarre!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not really that bizarre at all.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your feedback needs to be balanced with noticing EVERYTHING - ESPECIALLY the progress. If you had noticed the progress, I very much doubt you would have made the inappropriate judgments about potential for murder.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Kayla, if you were my mother, I might receive your "feedback" better. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> However, you and I are two adults. Thanks for going back and reading though. I still believe though that you are overreacting and misreading things with almost a "maternal" instinct to "protect" Peachy.

BEST OF WISHES!

<small>[ December 22, 2003, 06:42 PM: Message edited by: LoveMyEx ]</small>

I'm a lurker and soon to be divorced. I have read a lot here though and learned some things. One of the Marriage Builder principals I have learned is to be accountable for my own problems, like another man here said. Many people actually enjoy being bitter but don't see it that way. I did. I saw being bitter as my right and it was actually a way that kept me connected to my family. I have a family that is a soap opera family. They thrive off the drama. It is easy to see bitterness in other people but hard to see it in ourselves. A place like this is helpful because it can help people to see what they are doing wrong or need to change. The only way to get help with being bitter is to face that you that you are bitter and to not be embarrassed to admit it.

I don't agree that it is too far-fetched to assume that a very bitter person would think of murder or attempt murder. Hatred can lead to murder and it does lead to murder alot of times.
I hope that peachy will become more open to receiving feedback and help. It doesn't seem like she is willing to listen to advice. My sister's husband was murdered. She was very bitter but is doing good now, a year later. Forgiving the murderer has helped her alot. Some people think she was nuts to forgive him, but she needed to because the hate was killing her inside.

Peachy - you know what my life has been like, similar to yours. I am still counseling with a group, for individual purposes. I am also, only now every 2 weeks counseling with First step for battered wives. I finally realized that i needed individual counseling. And Peachy, I did set boundaries, it really hurt, cause I wanted the husband around, but it finally is okay now. I really don't want him around now. I don't want this man, cause he is not the one that I would want for a husband. This man that I see is very selfish, and self serving. What has made a big step for me is BOUNDARIES.

Hon, you are going to backslide. I have been told this by the counselor that I am seeing. Since I am dealing with physical pain daily, and now having to start physical therapy with my shoulder again, and had a MRI to see if I have a torn shoulder on the left side, these test are verification that I was abused and mistreated by the man that I gave my heart and body to. When you have a long term marriage Peachy, it is hard. And when you have a son that says daddy got me this and that, that is hard to. For I am financially not in a good way. My X has finally said I am cash poor. Which he would never say before. And I told my kids, forget about presents. That our gift is having a roof over our head and some food on the table. That is getting tough too. Peachy, they will suck you into their game over and over. I would set boundaries, and only have conversation with him, about the son, and only the son. Let this take place, and realize that he is going to have a baby soon in the house, and that is going to be his problem till the baby turns 18. He has another mouth to feed and care for.

Peachy, you have made marvelous steps in the right direction. And you are allowing him to suck you back into his trap. If he wants to give you extra money. Accept it, say thank you, and in your mind, just say this was a gift to you. Don't have to apply the gift from your husband. Just notice it as a gift well deserved.

I do go through the lows like you are. Beleive me, there are days that I want to vomit and think that life is not worth living. I take my bible, and have pages marked for helping me get back to reliving my life. Sometimes, I wish to take extra pills to end my life, but I say, what would that mean to the kids. That they had a mother that just quit. That theyhad a mother that could go on. I want to go on to show them that I am a very responsible, loving, feminine woman, and not a sociopath, like my X (posts here) says about me. I am getting emotinally better, and all the opportunities are coming out. I didn't even ask for help for Christmas. And it appeared, and I said, there are families worse off than I, and the person said, you are in need, please accept our help, we want to help you. We feel you will be so grateful for the hellp. And I did, I cried when they gave me their donations. I never expected to have anything this x-mas. For I have decided that God wants me to survive on very little. I prayed to God, asked him to help me forgive my hsuband. I still haven't forgiven him totally on his abusing me physically. Cause I am reminded daily of the pain I feel.

But I am getting beter. And as far as the adulterous life he committed with the other woman. He can have this adulterous woman who I feel is psychologically not sound. If that is the type of woman he wants, he can have her. I belive their life together will not go beyond a few years. For he will see what type of person she really is. And for her using his wife, and coercing me and manipulating me with suicide. That in itself shows what type of person she is.

The only thing that scares me and I feel you feel the same way. Is the ? of aids. Since my xhusband and I had sex after he committed adulterous actions with the other woman. I have to be checked now once a year by my gyn. She and I talked this over 2 years ago, and she asked if it is okay, for if it does show up, I will have no insurance, which I don't have now. But she said, it is better to know, than to get into a relationship and then contaminate someone else. See my xhusband isn't even bothered by this. He just states that nothing will show up. He has read the material, but he chooses to read and retain only what he wants. There is real fear out there for me, and my gyn is being there for me and doing everything possible to check me out. I will have these testings done for 10 consequtive years. My husband isn't going to have it done, cause he feels he is free of aids or whatever. But he is once again giving my oldest daughter false imformation. And I told her, directly to her, your father has given you false information, and I said if you don't want to listen to me, then talk to the gyn you see. She sees someone differeent than I do at the same office. Then she will have the right information given to her by a 3rd party. And she will see why I am being checked on a yearly basis.

See Peachy, the betrayer, wants everyone to think they are doing the best for the family. They want the kids to think that dad is taking care of mom. The betrayer want the kids to think that dad has it all right. Well, my kids are learning that dad doesn't have it all right. And it is sad now, that if I were to ever get into another relationship, this will have to be a serious subject discussed, AIDS, the testing, and if I were to marry, condoms would have to be used for a very long time. And saliva, and etc. are a concern now. Sexual activities would have to be discussed thoroughly. I talked to my gyn, and there is a counseling group that she said that I could attend with a potential spouse, and the information would be given to both of us. It is an individual session, and a group session.

Peachy - you are down now. The holidays don't make it easier at all. The holidays actually make it worse. The family is torn apart, and your son is now being switched from one part of town to the other. My kids are going to experience this soon. And they will have to make a choice of where to go for each of the holidays. All I know is it is ugly, hard on the kids, as for myself, I will be okay, just as long as I know that my kids are surviving, and able to handle this hardship. As for myself, all I want is God in my life. I don't need material things. I don't need all these books, play toys, clothes etec. I came into this world with my skin and only my skin. I will leave with my skin. I only want what I can do for my kids, without them disrespecting me. They now are becoming familiar with disrespect. And no longer am I going to my x to tell them that so and so is disrespecting me. I am learning to handle this myself. And with the individual counseling I am in.

Also, I have a good friend that I talk to pretty much daily. And that has been a beneficial help to me. Notes have been made of the disrepsect my kids have made to me, as well as the good people here. I have stated to the kids, that the door is there, and if this is the way they want to conduct their life, I will not tolerate it. I said, that the door is there, and they could go live with their dad, if that is their pleasure. But as long as they are under my roof, this is what I expect. And I have stated, that I am pretty easy about expectations. And if things get worse, I won't be so easy. So I respect them, and would like the vice versa.

Peachy, I sympathize with you, and Hon, this is a long road you have traveled. The road is still going to have some major holes in them, and you will fall into the trap.

Maybe individual counseling would be good for now. That is what is helping me immensely. I wish that I had put my kids into individual counseling at the beginning. But you all know about my X, and he said no, that he was going to talk to the kids. Well, yep, he did his talking and some damage. And now I am undoing some of the damage, and still suggesting counseling. The door to counseling will always be open. All I can do is pray for my kids, show my kids my love, and I will always be here for them. The truth is starting to come out, and my kids are seeing the truth little by little. I am not trying to say who is better or who said what. All I am trying to do is be honest and be honest with the kids. I see they are seeing this now. And that I am having a hard time financially. The words are coming out of them little by little.

Anyways, I am getting ready for bed. Needing to say goodbye to you Peachy - you are one beautiful strong woman dealing with a lot of CRAPOLA!!! Keep your head up high hon, and I do care about you ((((((hugs)))))). Like many of us, we all care about you (((hugs))).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KaylaAndy:
<strong>Princess, I am surprised at you. See, I remember old Humperdink's worst days of holding your stuff hostage and suing you for it, the outlaws picking your children up and how crazy that made you... Why do you expect Peachy to do it faster than you? or differently? I think you'd have launched into orbit had you been clubbed like peachy has.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I remember very well being clubbed. I didn't want to hear it. But they were right. I was scared and angry and did a lot of things poorly.

It didn't get better until I let go of what he had done. Maybe that's why I am drawn to Peachy's posts. I see a lot of parallels. I don't mean to say to anyone "I know what you're going through" but hey, even though I don't reiterate in every post the horrid things my ex did, I've been through a lot too.

I know I've called Humperdinck and the Queen a variety of names. I don't remember lumping everyone like them into a big stereotypical group and saying downright nasty things about the whole. I have many, many God-fearing friends who got pregnant out of wedlock. It happens. But it isn't our place to judge those people for what they have done.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But it isn't our place to judge those people for what they have done.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree.


I went back and reread the last bru-ha-ha post in Nov. where Peachy posted and quite a few people gave opinions and they were not received well. People were accused of judging and of posting under multiple names and the same things were being said almost verbatim: "You don't know me." "you don't know her." "How dare you." (not just to me, but to a whole bunch of people) Etc.

Most of the people who genuninely made an effort to help don't post to her anymore and made it clear that they wouldn't because it was not received and because they were accused of having all sorts of wicked motives (as I have also been here).

If a person is in a ditch, either they fell in themselves or something/someone else caused them to fall in. You don't just throw in sympathy cards and say "I really admire your tenacity" or "I love the way you are real and honest about your situation" as the person "vents" and says, "I hate this ditch! This ditch stinks! That stupid idiotic guy who ran me off the road... you know what he did to me? He did this and that and the other."

Yes, we'd feel very badly for that person, but to stand there, applaud their honesty, and throw in sympathy cards? What good will that ultimately do? It'll probably make the person feel good, but will it help them OUT of the ditch?

Maybe the person is very bruised and hurting very badly and the only way out is to push and/or pull the person out. They are screaming all the way, "Ow... this hurts. Stop. You're hurting me. Can't you see I am wounded? Why are you pulling so hard? You don't even know me and here you are hurting me! Don't you know what that driver did to me?" They might not even like it when they are out of the ditch. Some people would even jump back in! Sometimes it's easier and a false sort of comfort to stay in the ditch.

Life is very hard and it's hard to face life. We have ALLL been through painful things. You simply cannot get through life unscathed. You WILL be hurt, you WILL face rejection, you WILL suffer, some more than others unfortunately. However, each one's pain is incomparable to someone else's and it's not a competition of "my pain is worse than yours."

I have had my times when I have wanted to stay in bed all day under the covers nursing my wounds, and when confronted, have felt, "You don't understand what I've been through! Leave me alone!" The best response of the other person: "No, you're right, I don't understand and can't because I am not you. But I do see that right now what you are doing is not good and is hurting you. You can stay in bed if you like or you can take my advice and get out. I know it's hard, very hard, but it will help you to let go of the pain."

And the person might even ask, "Why are you afraid to get out of bed?" or "Why do you feel defensive when I tell you that it is hurting you?" And the person might think, "Leave me alone. You are being so rude to me asking me questions and telling me I need to get out of bed."

Ultimately we are responsible for ourselves and our lives. Other people can only help so much.

It's not the greatest analogy and I'm sure I said something in there that I'll be "reamed" for. I have been accused of "stalking" and "hounding" Peachy even though I wrote TWO posts to her plus gave a book recommendation and an article exerpt. I posted only one or two posts last time in Nov. I saw that it was fruitless and did not attempt to "reach out" to Peachy again until now with a sincere effort to see her move beyond the "blame" and anger.

All sorts of wrath has come down upon me for doing so; thus, I have learned my lesson. If Peachy only wants sympathy, I know she will find it. But, while I sympathize with her, I can't do so w/o also giving her some constructive advice on letting go.

I would advise anyone here... if you do not want advice, you should write in your title "vent only.. no advice please;" otherwise, it is assumed that you are open to feedback from others, since this is a public forum where people freely share opinions and advice.

It's also important for the person giving the "advice," to recognize when it is fruitless and vain. A wise person doesn't willingly throw themselves in front of a moving train (as I have done here-- not bad motives, but not exactly wise of me either).

God bless.

<small>[ December 23, 2003, 05:47 PM: Message edited by: LoveMyEx ]</small>

Geez, I take a day off and... JustPeachy is G-O-N-E!
Sorry to see you leave, JP! You were a true E-Friend, and I rejoiced as well as sympathized with you since I first began following your story.
My prayer for you - whether or not you do read this is: "May the Lord bless and heal you, JP. May he take you and your son under His Wings and guide you straight as you both continue your Journey of Life. May your paths always be straight and may the wind always be at your back and the sun shine down on you both." You will be sorely missed in 'The Kingdom' of Caerlon. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />
Sincerly, Harold

Good God, I waded all the way through this thread, and I'm going to say something. First and foremost, peachy, you are finally divorced from that jerk. Count that blessing every day for a long time to come. Now that's a blessing. I see people telling you to disengage from his antics. I've probably said it myself at times. Anger is part of grieving. Get it out of your system. It's kinda hard to disengage when he's playing cat and mouse games with your $$. What will it take for him to use a stamp and an envelope. What a lowlife he is. There will be a day when his antics don't get under your skin anymore. The sooner the better, but do what you gotta do to get there. Grieving has no short cuts. It does require repeating the stages, though, if we don't 'get it' the first time. Anger, denial, depression can be repeated many times before reaching acceptance.

Now, something that hasn't been mentioned yet is something my C said recently. I've been seeking counseling at the women's shelter since I filed for divorce in October. What a wonderful resource they are! C said a lot of women deal with dad issues during divorce. That came as a surprise to me, since my dad died when I was three. For some reason I was in tears when C asked me to describe him. There's only one memory I can remember. Why would that hurt? I'm not sure. It's 40 years later for crying out loud. There's *some* kind of unresolved issue there. When things make us cry, our body is speaking to us, and it's in our best interest to listen and figure out the mystery. I've come to realize that my original family gave me predispositions toward making a poor choice in a spouse. My entire family has some unhealthy patterns that I thought passed away with my grandparents, but a family thanksgiving this year allowed me to see otherwise. The best way to recover from such a disastrous marriage IMO is to resolve whatever issues are lurking about and make a better choice next time. You indicated that you found an answer for why the extra $$ made you cry. I wonder if it's a complete answer.

Peachy, I've followed your story off and on. It reminds me of the chinese proverb -- fall down seven times, stand up eight. My stbx is a bit of a nutcase too, in ways much different than yours. The damage is all too devastating to describe. We both ended up with doozies. Let's not do it again. I hope and pray for the day that jethro's b*!!s%$# is a thing of the past. I believe you will work on your recovery until the time you've attracted the most healthy, available, attractive, compassionate man in a 50 mile radius. I believe the people in our lives are here to teach us lessons, and if we fail to learn the lesson, we're doomed to repeat until we get it right. There were some pretty tangential responses on this thread. People may have an agenda of being helpful, but goodness, I think some of y'all missed the barn. I hope I fared ok with my attempt.

Hi Peachy

Only proper boundaries can prevent us hurting again.
I think this hurt you because you see him 'going out' from M with you so 'easy', moreover UNPUNISHED, and you have to cope with consequences of his behavior&#8230;(?) He begun 'a new life' and you still feel the pain, and with no man to compensate this loss (the time will tell you this is a GAIN, getting rid of THAT kind of man your X was!...), with his love, all things you missed and need now&#8230; (Hope your feelings are just your ego, not love...)

Please, don&#8217;t think that way&#8230; I believe in destiny and am sure that must be a good reason for this, you know &#8211; one door closed for the other door to be opened.

Hope that new door that is going to be opened for you and your son will bring you happiness, love and respect and a wonderful life!
As I want for all MBs and all hurt souls on this earth&#8230;

Cheer up Peachy! No rain was followed with no SUN, just open the window&#8230; <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />


Regarding the rest of MBs on this thread &#8211; I learned (helps me) a bit from ALL of them! (Thanks!)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why was I feeling hurt?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">because you are not yet a totally financially independent head of household. If you were, you would not be looking at his money as control or buying. . you will be able to ignore it. . .

but you are working towards financial independence. . . its very difficult not to get angry when you are struggling for independence when someone took that away from you, and then taunts you about it., and right now, financial independence is not easy with the economy. .. . .

i echo your sentiments right now, with my financial condition versus independence in a similar situation.

keep working at it though. . . you will get there just like i will someday

wiftty

<small>[ December 24, 2003, 01:53 PM: Message edited by: WhenIfindthetime ]</small>

I&#8217;ve just seen the other thread is closed and I wanted to leave my reply, so I&#8217;ll do it here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Peachy, please don&#8217;t go, if even for one second this venting help you!

Guys, Peachy was clear, she wants to vent (hopefully some wise words will accept and apply, one day if not sooner...), so &#8211; let&#8217;s respect it !
Moreover, when she begins a venting thread, let&#8217;s help with venting ourselves! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

E.g. - this morning I got a message from my (X)H - he says "I do love you and always will".
Sounds nice if I didn't know he'll spend Xmas with her... So, can you imagine that, that,... what's proper word? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ December 24, 2003, 08:34 AM: Message edited by: Belonging to Nowhere ]</small>

A few minutes ago I got this from him:
"I would enjoy spending New Years's Eve with you. You know I am superstitious about that night. If you agree, I will make a reservation for dinner, I was thinking of xxx restaurant.

(He's superstitious because two times he broke up with his GFs he loved, a long time ago... at least that's what he told me...)

Here is what I've just answered:
"Superstitious... I remember your story why...
Are you afraid you'll break up with her if you invite her instead?
Shouldn't ... her 'love' (and yours) should be worth of........................."


How does this sound to you? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />