Hmmmp, I watch these kinds of threads and have my own doubts about the value of venting....I am not really sure there is such a thing anyways, the idea that one can be negative, wear a victim label, and/or gratuitiously trash someone else (even if they "deserve" it), and somehow achieve a therapeutic benefit seems unlikely. More likely it keeps one stuck, undfocused, and is physically unhealthy to boot. Certainly people get angry, but what you do with that anger makes all the difference in the world, a singular outburst, and a short-term pity party makes sense to me...but a continuous long-term pattern of negativity seems ill-advised.

I find it interesting that folks here regularly reject the notion the bs made the ws have an affair (a notion I reject as well)...but often embrace the notion a ws made the bs act in negative, vindictive, victim ways, expressed by venting behaviour....curious. Either we are ALL responsible for our actions, all the time....or we are not....you cannot pick and choose principles. IMO the issue that has developed on this thread is not whether someone has had a rough way to go, not whether we have free speech and can use it to vent, not whether someone is angry or not....the issue is, is such behaviour healthy, it is not. And those who try to point that out, and suggest alternate behaviours should (IMO) be thanked for making that effort, even if the effort is annoying. In reading this thread I saw no one (of those who suggested wallowing in anger and self-pity is unhealthy) respond rudely, or without obvious intent to help...That is what this place is about....the default expectation when someone posts is they want all feedback. I suppose if one wants to vent, does not want to be called on it, and only wants sympathetic cooing in return (which is fine, but not really helpful, cause it validates victimhood), and says so in their intiial post...then ok, it would be rude to ignore that, but that isn't what happened...is it?

Lovemyex, I found your ditch analogy very illustrative regard your posiition on this issue, good job, this is an issue highly fraught with emotion, and regularly draws out those who have a predilection for mob behaviour (no offense to the mob'ees but that is what it is....this turned into an us vs them issue for the ostebsible reason of protecting someone who is in no need of protection on this matter...there was no offense to defend against). I also agree with the tough love approach to life, sympathy is a highly overated behaviour, especially when it validates victim type feelings, it keeps people stuck...which ultimately hurts not helps them.

I am not going to venture into the hornets nest re any advice, but I will stand on the concept anger, and bitterness are a poison best avoided, and fought against, not embraced....and any advice that is for the purpose of trying to help with resistance is a good thing. But simply telling someone not to "act" that way is just the start (and least effective), what is best is providing viable ideas on how to short-circuit the behaviour when one is being overcome....

Personally I wish everyone here well, and every post I make has that in mind, I think such is true for most posters actually....I really don't understand the mob kind of behaviour that erupts regularly here, wastes time, resources, and does nothing useful that I can see....but it does make me wonder about the psychological profile of those who engage in such behaviour, and suggests why they might experience trouble in their marriages.....self-serving judgemental behaviour is a killer for healthy relationships of all kinds.

Had this thread simply gone along and recorded each persons opinion to the posters circumstance, it would have been fine....but no, folks just cannot let things be, there always seems to be those who have to impose their flavor of "judgement" on others intents and means of helping...thereby generateing controversy/defensiveness and stirring up side issues having absolutely nothing to do with the thread at all, and in fact(IMO) just fueling the fire for peachy (who has all the drama she needs already)...I think that is not only ill-advised (on the part of the self-appointed defenders), but stupid as well....I wonder about this kind of behaviour, and what it means, I think it is reflective of those who have a need for drama in their lives...it would be fascinateing to temperament type and ennegram (there stillwed) such individuals, and examine their interactions in real life....I am sure a control (and aggression) pattern would be revealed.

<small>[ December 24, 2003, 10:05 AM: Message edited by: sufdb ]</small>

I am emailing and making sure this thread is closed too since only a few have actually answered the simple question I asked a few days later.

The need for control and drama? No sir sufdb. I have had every bit of drama I've ever wanted. And the stuff I contributed to the fall of my former marriage? Mere peanuts. X wouldn't go to a counselor b/c the counselor said it would be so easy to fix...except for his parts...Mine were easy. Stuff like having dinner ready at a certain time. Petty stuff.

And this thread was to simply ask a question. And I got a really good answer here. One really good one. About how money and his still having more influence financially is making me feel controlled but I am working towards where I don't need one penny from the guy and won't stop until I get there. See, all this stupid stuff for nothing...And then stuff flies out about somebody being "fearful" about my imagined behavior towards my x and ow. Out of bounds totally on that one.

I didn't even vent that much when the thread started. Nope. I was upset and I asked a question. And this is what happened.

And for anybody here who thinks I wallow in misery, then they don't know me at all. This is the one area of my life that has hurt more than anything. Aside from all of this I am totally different and can say that I laugh alot. Do a great job in my specialty. Am respected by clinicians and my patients. Read alot of books (fiction lately). Go to lunch with my girlfriends. Life stuff. If somebody here in the future asks a question, please just somebody answer it. Or they wouldn't be asking. There is a huge difference between getting a question answered by those who've somewhat experienced the same type of situations to asking a question and getting analyzed and picked apart, question not at all answered whatsoever, by somebody who doesn't know you and makes broad-sweeping judgements (like the violence thing which is a damn lie). That's what has infuriated me.

Instead of amateur pop psych being handed out by those who aren't psychs at all, why doesn't somebody just try to answer a question. Or if somebody is upset and needing to get it off their chest, then either let them know you've been there too and how you made it through. This is uncharted territory for me and for alot here. We've never been treated like this before. We've maybe never been divorced. So we need to know how somebody else got over something, dealt with certain issues, rather than being handed long winded and almost totally unrelated responses peppered with passive insults.

All I am saying in the end here is if somebody has a question, and you feel like you could give them a hand and help them answer it, then do so. If somebody is venting, then maybe it would be good to let them know that others have been through this too and it was part of their healing. I am in the anger stage of my grief cycle now. Not alot mind you, just rather irony fused with some small part of anger now. That's just part of the healing process. And before anybody else says "what good does venting and saying things about our x's do?" remember that anger is part of the kubler ross dying/grief cycle. It's part of what's supposed to happen as we move hopefully ahead. How hard is this to understand? I don't think it's hard at all.

Most here weren't even around when I first started posting two years ago. I did all I could do. But how could anybody heal a marriage when one partner just wanted out becaue they wanted another woman...I mean no big issues at home at all...no physical issues...nothing like that..they just got bored of their same old day in day out wife and wanted something a bit more new, a bit younger and more wild. Maybe a responsible mom wasn't sexy enough for him. I asked alot. I vented alot. I learned alot. Then from 2002-2003 things got incredibly worse as it became a game for him and he treated it like he would a business opponant. His answer? Destroy and take over the opposition. What he does. With no conscience. When the God of money and self fullfillment came into his life, he truly changed. I came here hoping that somebody here went through something similar. I found a few. And I needed what to do, what to expect because I didn't know what bad thing he'd do next. Luckily I found a woman who went to church with me who had something very close happen and she would tell me over lunch to simply expect the worst. A certain doc who posts herd told me to do the same. My girlfriend even told me that over time the audacity of every new "low" that this kind of person would sink to will affect me less and less. That is happening but it still happens--the feeling of outrage I get when I see how he deliberately goes out of his way to hurt me. So I posted here, asked a question and vented a little after asking the question, basically just explaining the situation so a clear answer how to handle this guy would be given.

Again, let's stop this thread too. I got my answer. And alot of stuff that was totally unrelated and out of line.

If anybody would like to email me and talk about something good...like what they're doing tonight for Christmas eve. Then we can do that.

I am just sick of seeing this stuff anymore. Help your friends here and if they have questions, give them really helpful answers of what has helped you...what helped you solve a similar issue. If we want professional help, we will seek that out and get it from those properly licensed to do so.

Merry Christmas everybody and drop me a line if you want to. I am outta here.

Hi Peachy,

When I was going thru divorce and after my divorce, my ex-H continued to contact me and tell me he loved and missed me, it was extremely painful to hear those proclaimations because in the same breath he'd say how he was with OW now.

Throughtout my ordeal I regularly counseled with Steve Harley. In one of my last post-divorce sessions with Steve Harley he advised me that my ex-Husband's proclaimations of love and missing me were inappropriate and that I was to tell him so, which I did. SteveH also advised me to go into a strict Plan B and insist, or demand if necessary, that my ex-Husband leave me alone [our marriage was child-less so this was pratical].

So, I guess what I'm saying is perhaps you might try exploring an extended post-D Plan B with your ex-H. And do your best to "emotionally" detach when you're required to interact with him on child issues. I know its easier said than done, but thought I'd share what I was required to do in order to find some serenity.

It has made my healing much easier.

Very Best,
Jo

<small>[ December 24, 2003, 05:41 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

SUFB, I have not always agreed with you but have not joined in on any of the "mobbing" or "identity hunts" that have taken place in the forums. You have made some extremely wise statements here in your post. I wish others could see it. Actually, I believe alot of people do, but don't post. They "know better." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I have nothing against Peachy nor do I believe anyone here does. It is not a personal battle going on in here. It is one that is a battle between beliefs and one "skewed" by perspectives.
It represents a slice of life because life is like this.

I think it is best I refrain from contributing any more to this or any future interaction with Peachy so I will hold my tongue. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I believe many people though would "speed" their healing if they'd take heed to the comments you made sufb. Whether they "like" you or "dislike" you is moot. The comments themselves are very insightful and wise.