When it became obvious that I would have to tell our children something about why Daddy wasn't around, I took my parent's advice, which now I'm beginning to regret. They felt it was imperative that the boys realize that our divorce wasn't because of some sort of "misunderstanding" or "not being able to get along." (In other words, that it wasn't undertaken lightly.) Also, they were concerned that my sons not feel that, in divorcing their father, I had failed to do my best for them. So, I told the boys that their father had chosen to have a girlfriend, and that this was not what God had intended marriage to be. (Of course, I didn't mention the ONS that also occurred.) I told them that trust was an integral part of marriage, and that without it, the marriage couldn't be. Beyond that, I just reassured them that Daddy loves them and that they will continue to spend time with him. I didn't ever use the word "wrong" or "affair" or "cheat" or anything derogatory about their father, though I'm sure they realize that he was "wrong."

One of the boys asked me if Daddy would be getting married, and I just said, no, that Daddy doesn't have that girlfriend any more.

Now I feel regretful that I told them about his affair, although my husband only said, "Just don't make up anything. Tell them the truth."

Have I made a terrible mistake? At this point, I am completely able to speak of and to their father calmly and kindly, and plan on continuing.

Rose Red

How old are your children?

Wether it was a mistake or not, it's done. I don't see a problem with being honest as long as they are old enough to understand.

The one thing that STBXW and I have made sure of is to always reassure our 4DD's that We will always be their Mommy and Daddy.

Also I have learned that advice of others, even parents isn't always right. I try to come here and get the advice of experience and decide for myself what I think is best from that point.

I found that family advice is usually centered on the bad points of the X. Usually makes them the bad guy.

This isn't good with children. If they determine that one or the other is wrong on there own, thats one thing. Parents shouldn't make each other seem wrong to them.

If you told them in a way that didn't lead them to believe that you were saying he did something wrong, then I don't see a problem with them knowing the truth.

Rose,

How old are your children? I've had the same questions regarding our D10.

My first D-day reaction was that I never wanted her to know anything about the A and begged my WAH not to involve her in any way. Little did I know that he already had. He had taken her to OW's house one day ostensibly to see a dog owned by a "friend of Daddy's." They weren't there long and there was no affection or anything in front of our D10 but kids pick up on vibes very easily. When WAH moved out he began casually mentioning OW to D, saying things like he'd gone for a walk with that nice lady with the dogs.

It didn't take long for D10 to put two and two together but I didn't know that so it was some time before she and I openly talked about it. Finally, the dam broke and she began crying and saying she thought daddy had a girlfriend. She said she hadn't wanted to ask me about it earlier because she thought it would "break my heart." I was heartbroken for her - what a burden for her to carry around. She asked me if I already knew and I repied honestly that it was true and I knew about it. To my surprise, she got mad at me for not telling her the whole story at the very beginning! She said I had promised to always tell her the truth and I hadn't done that. Of course, she was really mad at her dad but couldn't express it to him (still can't)and I was just a trustworthy sounding board.

She asked all sorts of questions: when/how did he meet her, is that why daddy left, etc. I made a decision then to answer her as honestly as I could and told her the basic facts. I think that took at least one burden off her - she knew she didn't have to keep secrets about it to protect me. Also, I think it was less stressful for both of us once it was out in the open. I did not try to pretend that it was ok or the right thing to do as I felt I had to take a moral stand. I tried not to be judgmental about her dad and said that we all make mistakes, etc., but I did say he and OW had made a wrong choice that was hurting alot of people.

I told WAH about it and he talked to D10. Unfortunately, he glossed it over and didn't take any responsibility, said it was ok since we were seperated, our marriage had already ended. He said they were "just friends" until then. Sure thing!

Since then D10 and I have continued to talk about it - sometimes easily, other times not, but at least she is talking to someone about her feelings. She hates the OW, doesn't want to be around her now. Of course, WAH doesn't believe that and things it is all my fault for prejudicing her. She never tells him how she really feels. Very sad. She is a big-time daddy's girl and worships him. He has noidea how painful this has been for her or how hard it is for her to reconcile the dad she adores with the betrayer he has become.

I guess it was inevitable she find out the truth but I still feel queasy about it. Having said that, if I were to do it over again, I think I would have done as you did and told her myself - just the facts, omitting any gory details. Point is that children KNOW these things most of the time whether we tell them or not and it's too big a burden for them to keep it all inside. They may also imagine the facts as being worse than they are - better to know the devil, so to speak.

Sorry, I'm a bit long-winded!

Ooops, I omitted a crucial piece of information. The boys are 10.

Wish, you are right that the opinions of others isn't always correct, even when, as in the case of my parents, they are acting from love. Their feeling was that children should understand that God designed marriage based on love and trust between two people, and that it shouldn't be broken lightly.

You said, "Parents shouldn't make each other seem wrong to them." Of course, having a girlfriend when you are married is obviously wrong, even to a ten year old. The implication that Daddy did something wrong and hurtful is what I am uncertain about, but maybe it was for the best. I don't want them to grow up thinking of divorce as something you do when you just get tired of being married. But as you say, I don't want to heap accusations on Daddy's head, and I don't plan to say another word about it unless they bring it up.

Jazmom, oh, your poor daughter must have felt so lonely, keeping the secret of your husband's OW from you! Poor little thing. It sounds as though you are being very careful with her, trying to walk a thin line between telling her that her father did a terrible thing and pretending that nobody was at fault. And in your case, with your husband introducing her to the OW, it seems inevitable that the whole thing would come out. In my case, we could've given some conventional explanation and never mentioned the OW since she's been long gone. (The affair was almost three years ago.) I guess it is because I had an alternative that I'm second guessing myself now. I hope I haven't caused more heartache for my children.

Rose Red

Did I make a big mistake?
Why do you think it was a mistake?

Their feeling was that children should understand that God designed marriage based on love and trust between two people, and that it shouldn't be broken lightly.

And they are correct.

You said, "Parents shouldn't make each other seem wrong to them." Of course, having a girlfriend when you are married is obviously wrong,
Yes, but you are not the one who is makiung the wrong. You are simply telling them like it is.
Now it would be wrong for you to be slamming on him and calling him names, etc. But to tell them he made a bad choice is okay.

The implication that Daddy did something wrong and hurtful
It helps them to understand that parents are human too and make mistakes.

but maybe it was for the best.
Absolutely it was.

I hope I haven't caused more heartache for my children.
Think how they would feel in 10 years when they would have found out anyway.
A divorce because of dads afair and mom lied to us about it all this time.

You did the right thing even though it hurts a bit now.

Did you make a mistake?

ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!

You told the truth.

Anything less than that would have been a mistake!!

Try this: looking back, what do you think now that you should have told them? Is it truthfull? If not, then THAT would have been a mistake.

If your kids are old enough to understand such a statement about God's intent for marriage, I don't think you said anything wrong at all.

Whether the marriage had problems and who contributed to them is one thing; ENDING the marriage is another and that was something your husband did choose and for the very reason you stated.

What you said sounds perfectly fine to me.

Chris, WAT and Ms. O, your affirming replies are so welcome. The last thing I want to do is create more pain for my sons, who seem so innocent and trusting. I never thought it would come to this. Thanks.

RR

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Rose Red:
<strong> Ooops, I omitted a crucial piece of information. The boys are 10. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A few weeks ago I went to a parenting class and the speaker reminded us that as parents we have an obligation and right to stand up for our moral values without apology. Some things are simply wrong and we need to guard against the tendency to confuse judgment with discernment. What my WAH has done by having the A is wrong. I want my D10 to know that. I also want her to know about forgiveness.

I didn't go into it earlier, but I went through a very similar experience myself as a child. My own dad had an A. I "knew" about it long before I really knew: he met OW with me tagging along a few times and even though I had no idea what was going on, I just knew I shouldn't mention it to my mom. He didn't have to say a word. Turns out his OW was a real nut and started stalking my mom, parking outside our house and honking the horn, even called ME once at my girl scout meeting! Mom told me she used to work for dad and he'd had to fire her so she was mad. I can remember quite clearly not believing that story but I didn't say anything. But you can bet my ears perked up and I became very vigilent,trying to listen to conversations and spy to get a whiff of the truth. Wasn't long before I began needling my mom to tell me the truth which she finally did with great reluctance. I was probably 10 at the time. Sounds odd but I was relieved to finally have it confirmed.

I never talked about it with my dad until I was 20 or so. I'm sure lots of my teenage acting out had to do with the anger I felt but I never mentioned it and never expressed any emotion to dad about the whole mess. We had a "polite" relationship until I finally blew up and confronted him with his actions way back when. He eventually apologized to me, though it took awhile before he stopped adding a "but" to his apology. Since then we've discussed it and my childhood in detail - a sometimes uncomfortable but ultimately healing process.

When my WAH started his A, I was scared to tell my dad - I was afraid he would try to make excuses for him or blame me, as he used to blame my mother. But you know what? He was great! No excuses at all. He just said it sounded like my WAH was making the same lousy mistakes he'd made. He could see how much pain D10 and I were in. He accepted that and hasn't tried to minimize my feelings in anyway.

You know what? Dad and I are really good friends now. I forgave him long ago and we've gotten along fine for years but his understanding over this has been more healing than I could have imagined. It's as if he's owned up to his own mistakes and made the final amends.

I'm telling you all this so you'll know that parent-child relationships can be made whole even after the parent has dived off the pedestal. The key is for the child to be honest and the parent to listen to them without making excuses or pointing fingers of blame at the BS. The sad thing is that most children are not able to be openly honest with the WA parent until years later, if then. And who can blame them? It's scary to be emotionally honest for ALL of us.

If your H is amenable and you think he can put aside his own issues, maybe he could mention to your sons that he knows they know about the A. If he can take responsibility and admit he's sorry he made some wrong choices, no buts allowed, your sons will benefit.

More long-windedness from me!

Jazmom, thanks for your reply. Your childhood situation sounds like it gave you a greater perception about how to handle your own daughter during this time. It's wonderful that you and your father were able to discuss this and find healing.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The key is for the child to be honest and the parent to listen to them without making excuses or pointing fingers of blame at the BS. The sad thing is that most children are not able to be openly honest with the WA parent until years later, if then. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not certain how capable of this kind of discussion my husband is. He is the adult child of an abusive alcoholic with his own issues, which he has never been able to confront. During our attempts at marriage counseling, he simply refused to deal with the emotional effects of his childhood. Further, he is unable to apologize to our children for any parenting mistakes. He handles problems in the same way he had to as a child--just don't mention it and hope it goes away.

This said, I'm not very hopeful about his ability to handle the divorce issues with our children. The only thing I know to do is to be available to discuss things with the boys, and to assure them that he loves them, which he does, although since his own father was so crappy, he knows very little about how to be a good dad.

Rose Red

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Further, he is unable to apologize to our children for any parenting mistakes. He handles problems in the same way he had to as a child--just don't mention it and hope it goes away.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sounds familiar. My WAH can't apologize for anything, parenting mistake or whatever. Even before his MLC fog, he couldn't do so. That's always puzzled me. I attribute it to some fear of weakness or admitting he's less than perfect. Who knows. His mom, my MIL, is the same way. I grew up with the other extreme and tend to take responsibility for things that are clearly not my fault.

All you can do is be there for your children, listen if they want to talk, and model honesty and compassion. I talk very honestly to our D10, often in a general way w/o focusing on WAH, about emotions and the difficulties people have sorting out their real feelings. For example, when she's been angry or her dad or I have, I've talked about looking deeper for the sadness behind the anger. I don't think it's all sinking in but I'm hopeful that at least the seeds are taking root and will help her understand herself and others in the future.

Are your children in counseling? My D10 was for awhile but is adamantly refusing to go at the moment and I've decided not to push it for the time being. She needs to go, though, and I'm watching for the right time to bring it up again. This has been an issue between WAH and me. He isn't supportive unless the counselor is on "his" side and he can dictate what goes on.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> This said, I'm not very hopeful about his ability to handle the divorce issues with our children. The only thing I know to do is to be available to discuss things with the boys, and to assure them that he loves them, which he does, although since his own father was so crappy, he knows very little about how to be a good dad.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have to say my WAH was a great dad--very involved, nurturing, lots of time with D10--until his A which is all the more confusing! Talk about a 180. I think he had a good role model in his father but he's way off that path now. My own dad was a lousy husband to my mom and a lousy, hands-off dad to me. But I never doubted for one minute that he loved me - though when I think about it, I have no idea why I was so sure of his love and caring. I just was and that carried me through so much. Love is the great healer so pour it on and continue to assure them of their dad's love. Sometimes I tell D10 stories of her birth and how proud her daddy was of her and I swear I can see her glow.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> All you can do is be there for your children, listen if they want to talk, and model honesty and compassion. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This I can do. And I think counseling is a good idea, too. I wish the three of us could go into counseling together, but maybe it would be better for the boys to have freedom to talk away from both parents. My interest in going with them would really be so that I could understand better how they feel and help them, not that I want to control the conversations in some way. I guess if there was something the counselor felt I should know, he/she would tell me.

It is inconceivable that a loving father would be unfaithful to the child's mother, since infidelity clearly results in pain for the child. My husband was pained by his parents' divorce, so I can't for the life of me understand how he could put his own children in the same situation. One of the stupid reasons he gave me (early in the game) for why he had the affair was that he didn't think the boys loved him any more. Seems he came home one day when they were watching TV and they didn't jump up from the set and run to welcome him. They were 7 years old at the time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> He just doesn't understand about how children's minds work and how to interact with them in a loving way. He was always a better husband than father, until he was unfaithful and stopped being a good husband. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Rose Red