hi,

it's been awhile. i'm still in a similar situation as before. talked with Cerri and she suggested calling xbf and relatives to let them know i was fighting for my marriage. this really upset W to the poit where she agreed to talk with Cerri if i only stopped calling her relatives. not sure this is the best motive, but i'll take it.

more disturbing is my suspicion that she may have an addiction problem with codeine that she is able to get over the counter in canada from friends and relatives. does anybody have experience with this type of situation? how much of her fog and her leaving her marriage could be related to the effects of codeine or addiction? i'm out of my league here, so any perspective would be much appreciated.

wiwh - good to see things may be looking up. i'm pulling for you!!!

Paul

That type of addicition is probably the worst and is definately contributing to the fog.

My ex had multiple addictions but his drug of choice were narcotics. Started with codeine, percosets, and then, now that they are on the market and easily obtained from MD's everywhere...

OXYCONTINS...they are a synthetic morphine and only a step away from heroin.

Every crisis we had from his addictions throughout the whole 26 years was worse every time. I had to give him "mouth to mouth" on a city street after his overdose while my kids were hysterically standing by. what a nightmare.

In Jan 2001 he went into detox nad by march of same year he was back on oxycontins.

The last counseling appointment we had with our minister, he told him

"I dont care if you have the pope and Billy Graham sitting in the room here with you..If you had a bottle of oxy's on the table here I would find some way to get them"

Codeine is one of the hardest adictions to beat, and it sounds as if your wife isnt admitting to her problem.

Good luck to you,
Dawn

Thank you for the reply Sunrise. I'm really sorry you had to go through that. It sounds horrible. I'm just not sure she even knows she has a problem. Is it possible that she just looks at her drugs as extra strong aspirin and thinks she's treating symptoms of stress, pain, etc, rather than symptoms of withdrawal? If and when this gets brought up, she will not react well to it either way.

Take care

Paul

Hi Paul,
Havn't heard from you in a while. I hope W talking to Cerri helps.

How are things going otherwise?

P, it’s not only possible, it’s probable she doesn’t look on this as an addiction. Most addicts remain in denial for an extremely long time.

I think you’ve checked out Daisy37’s thread on addiction on the EN board?

Remember, Plan A will NOT work with addicts. Make sure Cerri knows you believe your wife is addicted. There is a wonderful section on addicts in Dr. Collins’ book Emotional Unavailibility. In it, she first defines addictions as physical addictions like alcohol, heroin, and other drugs, as opposed to destructive habits like over-spending, gambling, promiscuous sex. Then, she as clearly states that the primary relationship of an addict is with his or her drug of choice. You are only a secondary relationship, there to hold life together and promote the primary relationship. And that is the case until the addict is into full remission.

Others may disagree with this, but the power of an addiction is so high, and it’s physical to boot. I don’t know if codeine creates a physical dependency the way alcohol and heroin do, but if so, her body will actually need the drugs to function.

GG brings up a very valid point.

Affairs, gambling, and yes drugs spring to life the pleasure centers of the brain...dopamine receptor sites.

Sure, codeine is a depressor, but it also makes her feel differently and makes her deal with things differently.

Not sure of all the other areas but is an affair also involved? If so, then I would say for sure that your w has an addictive personality. Whether it's addiction to om or drugs. My x is the same. He loved to gamble. Do risky business ventures. Liked the challenge when faced with a lawsuit. Lived for the game. The rush. And I've speculated after seeing him at a cocktail party last year (I posted about this one) that he might have been recreationally using some type of upper which would have explained his behavior of staying up all night and partying and dancing around and drinking without seeming to get drunk. Mind you, that was a very dressy party and several hundred people were there. I didn't know he'd be there and he for sure didn't expect me to be there. But for first time I was like a fly on the wall and saw things clearly. Saw the fog in full action.

You've got your answer. But is your w willing to do anything about the problem? That's the whole deal. If they aren't willing to help solve, you can only do so much. We can influence but that's it.

Thanks for the helpful replies. As far as I can tell, there is no affair - although there is a chance that an EA is starting with an xbf via phone and email. She doesn't really have an addictive personality, and I don't think she realizes the danger of codeine addiction. She grew up in Canada where it's available OTC. She treats them as extra strength aspirin. She may not understand that she is feeding her habit to avoid withdrawal, rather than treating symptoms.

I am just now learning about this, so I have a ways to go. I'm not sure, but is it possible that this can work to some advantage in showing her that I will stick by her through thick and thin? How many of our marital problems can be blamed on this addiction?

She will talk to Cerri on Friday, albeit very reluctantly. She will need to work miracles to get through all the different fogs here, but from what I can tell, she's the best candidate for the job.

WIWH, it's been awhile. Sorry for the absence. Sounds like we may still be sort of in parallel mode.

Paul

Paul, why do you say your wife is in the “fog” if she’s not having an affair?

I think it is worth considering that she may be thinking very clear-headedly. I think it is worth considering not because your marriage is necessarily doomed, but so that you can see the depth and kind of change you need to make in order to win her back.

My STBX would probably describe me as being “thick-headed” or being in a “fog” when it comes to our relationship. He has for a while. But, then, he has been very clear that he’s not willing to change. The only thing I didn’t see clearly was that his actions told truly what he was and wasn’t willing to do.

Describing a spouse as being in a fog when there is no affair is disrespectful. It means that you think there is something about them that needs to be “fixed.” It means that you view all their reasons why the marriage is failing as “fog thinking” and things to be ignored or dismissed.

The fog Dr. Harley speaks of is very specific. It is the euphoria of having one’s emotional needs met in the context of a carefully constructed fantasy world. And it is decisions made based on this euphoria and fantasy world that are to be dismissed. “I’m so much happier with OP. It must be right.” That is fog thinking. “This marriage has caused me too much pain and I can’t tolerate it any more.” is not fog thinking unless there is another person involved. And even then, there is a basic truth.

THE EXCEPTION: If you wife is addicted to any drug, that is the primary relationship. Then she is in a fog.

But you have sounded iffy about the addiction part. And it’s possible that she’s only using the drugs to numb the pain of the relationship and there is no real addiction.

I remember my STBX more than once blaming our marital problems on my depression. Hmm. The only problem was I hadn’t been depressed for a long time until our marital problems got very bad. The mess at home was making me depressed, not the other way around. And thanks to psychotherapy, marital coaching and ADs, my depression didn’t last very long. In fact the marital problems were there before and after the depression.

All of this long discourse boils down to Don’t dismiss what your wife has to say as being in the fog. Don’t even dismiss her wanting to leave the marriage as being wrong for her. Based on past experience, she believes it’s the right thing to do. Your job is not necessarily to bring her out of the fog, but rather to give her a good reason to believe that things will be different this time and next time.