My X is trying to make me be around his new wife (former OW); he wants her included in family things that I organise. I never liked her, even before all of the turmoil, and I am still filled with anger at her part in my marriage and divorce. I am not ready to be in the same room as her, and before you all go off at how much time has passed, please remember that from September 2001 I have been living here, while him and her were overseas. Thus 'dealing' with this stuff is all very new to me.

Twice now he has attempted to force her on me, and now I don't think I can stop the next attempt, as he alluded to the fact that she might just be there. The first time he tried, he more or less told me in front of our daughter that he isn’t invited to her birthday party. I said he is, but not the wife. He said to D ‘Well I can’t come then”. D says “Well you can come, just don’t bring her!” He and I then had words where he tells me I am just going to have to get used to it all, and I tell him I do not have to get used to anything.

I felt that the message he was giving the kids was SHE is more important than them, even on their birthdays. I sent him a SMS telling him so. He replied “The message is for you to get on with your life and stop using the kids as pawns.”

So now this time he informs me he is coming to see the kids at first day of their new school. My son immediately says “Good, but you remember, just you.” I think I said something like “Yes that’s right” X then gets sarcastic and says to me “Well what if she DOES come, you can’t do anything about it” Of course this got me upset and I told him I was not ready to have the wife anywhere near me and that she didn’t have to come. Again he tells me to get used to it, and I tell him when I am ready, I will let him know, but until then to keep her away from me. We had more words, and he left. I sent him an email telling him I would no longer discuss this stuff in front of the kids and for him to do it via email. No reply yet.

What do I do? I feel like he is yet again forcing me to do things I do not want to do. In some ways, since he is married to her now, I can see it may be a good thing eventually for the kids' sake. But I cannot get past my human feelings of anger, betrayal, helplessness and depression over it all.

What can I do? I don't like these confrontations, especially in front of the children, but he will NOT let a point go. It was his way when we were married; he would sook until he got his own way. Does he have the right to expect this of me? And do I have the right to tell him I am not ready, and expect him to accept that? I did tell him these are my boundaries and I need them in my life, but he was just "You are too CHICKEN to face her." What do I do, say????

HELP!

Nina - he's going to do what he's going to do.

And it looks like he's going to be an *ss about it.

So it may be time for two birthday parties where he's not invited to the one you will be at. You havea right to your boundaries. Your children will understand, I am certain.

stand your ground nina: repeat your line. if she enters the room - you leave. just avoid her for the time being.

at the same time, try in your head to separate the two roles of your X - former husband on the one side, and father of your children on the other. On the first point he might be a complete failure and a muppet, and if he and OW found each other as soulmates etc etc, then so be it. However, his second role (father) is a life long one and one he should continue to exercise of course. Tell him about these two roles and that whilst the kids might accept OW as his new partner, they might if find hard to accept her as a new mom. especially as things are still fresh she should do the decent thing and stay in the background.

good luck,
Nick


PS - am in your town at the moment (am not a tennis player though)

As much as I hate to say this , you really can't do much about this. I think the only consolation in all of this is that this is, what her 3rd or 4th marriage and your ex with all of his P/A traits you won't have to deal with her for long. Just be there for your babies and support then and validate them and their opinions.
GOD Speed

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The first time he tried, he more or less told me in front of our daughter that he isn’t invited to her birthday party. I said he is, but not the wife. He said to D ‘Well I can’t come then”. D says “Well you can come, just don’t bring her!” He and I then had words where he tells me I am just going to have to get used to it all, and I tell him I do not have to get used to anything. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK, nina, you took his bait. When he played the not invited card, that's when you needed not to answer in front of the kids, (and its damn near impossible, I agree!) and basically, being divorced, you can't play togetherness. . . at all. . .

birthday parties are separate, christmas is separate, etc. . . the only time you need to be in the same room together is at public activities. . . even then you don't sit next to each other. . .

I brought my GF to one athletic event of my son's, and the X was there, and she stood ridiculously close to us. . . she was very threatened, and son was in a quandry, but i explained to son that he only had to say "Hi" that was all. . . my daughter talked with her for awhile, but they are meddlers, and controllers, and just overall pains in the tush. .

my X has found someone similar to your X's W, and i don't talk with him, even when X is at a public function, i generally figure out ways to sit where she can't sit near me, or us with the kids. . .

its frustrating, but separate, separate, and separate. . . do not play into his opening, which is what he used, the kids as the manipulated. . .

and I had an X moment the other day, the temperature is ZERO degrees out, frostbite within 10 minutes, and X delivers daughter to indoor soccer match with no pants, and a jacket, now X has got hats, mittens, gloves, scarfs, pants, etc on. . . so i have to take daughter home, and with no pants, no socks, if the car breaks down, someone hits me, etc. . . and i can't provide a warm shelter, daughter could be in alot of trouble. . .

they are idiots. . .

plain and simple. . .

don't take the bait, they know how to use it to manipulate you. . .

wiftty

Nina, Please don't put yourself down for "still" having feelings about this. Of course you can't do anything about your xh's new wife/former OW, but you absolutely don't have to have anything to do with her, except as WIFTTY said, at public functions you both choose to attend -- and you do have a choice. Continue to do all you can, as it sounds like you are, to keep the conflict away from your kids, but you don't ever have to choose to be involved with her, or your ex, if you don't want to, other than the civilities involved in visitation. What is more important than your peace of mind?

Thanks for the replies so far.

Well he called this afternoon and said he is coming alone, that the wife never intended on coming <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> , yeah and I was born under a cabbage. I asked the kids if Dad could take them on his own and son said no. When I asked why he said "Dad hasn't BEEN here for three years looking after us the way you have...he lost that priveledge." Yes, he is 10, but boy does he have some opinions, lol. And some valid points.

I do not want to go even this far for him, as it sets up a false image for the kids and the school. I will be making sure the teachers know the kinds of games he plays (since it periodically affects the kids). And YES wiftty, I know I fell into it, not once but TWICE. Hit me with a 2x4. I believe I have put a stop to that particular game with the email I sent him. If he tries ever to do something like that again, I will now be aware of his ploys, and just say for him to call me about it later.

We will see what happens on Thursday...she just may decide to 'tag along' for the fun of it. And then I will be panic stricken. Sigh. So sick of this crap.

Jacky

nina...I am not ready to be in the same room as her, and before you all go off at how much time has passed, please remember that from September 2001 I have been living here, while him and her were overseas. Thus 'dealing' with this stuff is all very new to me.

sufdb....YOU never have to be ready. You can avoid her forever, that's ok. MOM however, places some restrictions on this avoidance. You may not be able to choose avoidance whether you are ready or not.

nina...Twice now he has attempted to force her on me, and now I don't think I can stop the next attempt, as he alluded to the fact that she might just be there. The first time he tried, he more or less told me in front of our daughter that he isn’t invited to her birthday party. I said he is, but not the wife.

sufdb...In western culture a H and W are one, an invitation to one, is to both. To deliberately exclude one spouse is to dis-invite the other (not to mention the height of hubris). I am sure you felt the same way when married. He did not try to "force" anything, you were the one trying to force something. That is understandable under the circumstances, but at least own your behavior, don't put it on another.

nina...He said to D ‘Well I can’t come then”. D says “Well you can come, just don’t bring her!” He and I then had words where he tells me I am just going to have to get used to it all, and I tell him I do not have to get used to anything.

sufdb....You created the conflict, and you both handled it poorly, I suspect his words were out of frustration over your attempts to interfere with his marriage by controlling access to his children. I am astounded you are indoctrinateing you children into a policy of dad is ok, but that it is ok to interfere in his married life on behalf or your emotional state. I suspect they would not object to seeing his wife if you had been supportive of such action. This is not to say his wife is a wonderful person, they may object to her on her own merits....even as one does with their own bio parent, and refuse to see them...but that has to be decided on it's own merits.

nina...I felt that the message he was giving the kids was SHE is more important than them, even on their birthdays. I sent him a SMS telling him so. He replied “The message is for you to get on with your life and stop using the kids as pawns.”

sufdb...No one can send that message. The message he was sending is no one has the right to interfere in a spousal relationship, not even (and especially not) ones children. If they want a relationship with their dad they need to respect his rights as an adult to order his life...and there is nothing more basic than a persons right to designate their spouse WITHOUT anyone elses attempt to control that choice... I am sure you nina, will choose when and who to remarry and it will be YOUR decision, not your kids, not your siblings, not your parents, not your friends, not your exH...but yours....correct? Further anyone who tried to pressure you by holding you hostage to maintaining a relationship with you, only if you comply with their dictates would we wrong, and controlling...wouldn't they?

nina...So now this time he informs me he is coming to see the kids at first day of their new school. My son immediately says “Good, but you remember, just you.”

sufdb....You have indoctrinated your son well, he is pushing your agenda as you want....you really think that is a good lesson for him to learn? Instead why not give your exh (odious though he may be) credit for informing you so you wouldn't be unpleasantly surprised.

nina...I think I said something like “Yes that’s right” X then gets sarcastic and says to me “Well what if she DOES come, you can’t do anything about it” Of course this got me upset and I told him I was not ready to have the wife anywhere near me and that she didn’t have to come.

sufdb...This isn't about YOU, she is with her H, near his children....you can make the same choice, to be present or not. Life is not fair nina, ever, it just is life. Your distress is normal and understandable, but to whatever degree you let it leak over to your children, you injure them (by setting a bad example, as has your H) and you injure yourself as you avoid dealing with the realities of life, by trying to control someone elses behavior. He is not doing anything wrong by having his wife with him whereever he may be, he may be being insensitive, and this could be handled better (by you both), but he is not doing anything every married person is empowered to do....you have no status to interfere in his marriage directly, or through the kids....you would feel the same if anyone did this to you. He does not need to be sarcastic or insulting, but I suspect he has poor interpersonal skills, coupled with your mutual ability (like most who were/are married) to push each others buttons.

nina...Again he tells me to get used to it, and I tell him when I am ready, I will let him know, but until then to keep her away from me.

sufdb...action ...reaction...you guys dance well together. Break the pattern nina, for your kids sake, you are using them as weapons.

nina... We had more words, and he left. I sent him an email telling him I would no longer discuss this stuff in front of the kids and for him to do it via email. No reply yet.

sufdb...I agree.

nina...What do I do? I feel like he is yet again forcing me to do things I do not want to do.

sufdb...You have children together, it is not force, it is life. He is asserting his right to be in their lives, this is not about you.

nina...In some ways, since he is married to her now, I can see it may be a good thing eventually for the kids' sake. But I cannot get past my human feelings of anger, betrayal, helplessness and depression over it all.

sufdb....Have you told him this? IMO that is what one does, be honest about your feelings, and seek some kind of compromise. But when you simply hand him an edict, one that interferes with his marriage, you create a huge defensive response. Likewise a sensitive person would have approached you first saying I know this is uncomfortable for you, and you have every right to be angry, what can I do to accomodate this some for you. A logical compromise would be to agree to not bring new wife around for some period of time, maybe 6 months, year max....and you agree not to diss new wife, or encourage kids to automatically reject her, instead instructing them to make their own assesments and not be "defending" you. This meets both your needs, and gives time to adjust, without adversely affecting the kids. In the meantime they see her away from you (visitation etc.) and you have time to heal, and regain control over your feelings (which will be with you a long time).

nina..What can I do? I don't like these confrontations, especially in front of the children, but he will NOT let a point go.

sufdb....See above. Is this about healthy behavior and your children, or about winning a point? Let it go nina.

nina...It was his way when we were married; he would sook until he got his own way. Does he have the right to expect this of me?

sufdb...I understand the trigger. But you aren't married, and it isn't about you, it is about your children. Do you really think he would be adamant about this is you had no children? Would he try to force you into her company....of course not. You are trying to control him, the same way you complain he controlled you.

nina...And do I have the right to tell him I am not ready, and expect him to accept that?

sufdb...Yes you do. What you don't have a right to do is make him accept it. A sensitive individual would work with you on this. I am sure if we had him to talk with her we would her a different view of you, and your behavior, he does seem to try sometimes with you from what you post, maybe if you both back down a little you can work this out. He may just be a narcissitic controlling jerk, or maybe he is just scared you will try and use the kids against him, so reacts badly.

nina...I did tell him these are my boundaries and I need them in my life, but he was just "You are too CHICKEN to face her." What do I do, say????

sufdb...You guys sound a little like two kids nanny nanny boo boo stuff. But I think it is fine to say, maybe you are right, maybe I am a little afraid to deal with any more emotional pain right now, is that so hard to understand? And look it exh, I can an will deal with this, maybe we can talk about something that meets both our needs...and you know exh, maybe you are a little scared too, of losing your kids, I understand that, they live with me, and I want to reassure you that is my intent they have a good relationship with their dad.

sufdb...I don't know how this will be recieved, I am trying to help. I know you are hurting, and that is ok, but I think you are also a good mom, a decent person, and want to make healthy choices. IMO your reactions (albeit understandable) are a bit selfish, and not in your kids (or your for that matter) best interest. Further should by some strange twists of fate you and your exh find each other in the future....your actions now make a difference. But regardless, healthy behavior is desireable in it's own right. Good luck.

<small>[ January 27, 2004, 09:58 AM: Message edited by: sufdb ]</small>

Hello FAITH4ME! I MEAN SUFDB. I MEAN LA, I MEAN SNL!

'ALL' ARE THE SAME PERSON!

GIVE ME AN 'A' FOR FIGURING IT OUT!

oh yeah, did have a practical suggestion re parties and such. As much as possible try to have such things in a public place maybe, lots of kids places do birthdays... maybe that wouldn't be as hard as in your own home. School events are tougher, but sometimes "large" enough to avoid "close" physical proximity....If your exh is responsible enough, he can help maintain distance (unlike wifty's wife). But I really don't think it unreasonable for your H to attend things for awhile by himself, and have the kids interact with wife at other times. What disturbs me a lot is asking the kids to choose sides. They can be told for now that wife not coming around is an adult decision to respect some healing mom has to do, and all the adults are ok with that. But that the kids need to form their own relationships with each adult in their life, and not be afraid/concerned about others feelings/relationships with people.

subdb, please don't reply to my threads. I think you have categorised my behaviour in this situation with someone else here you know well, and believe me, I act differently from what you have tried to portray. Cut the armchair psychologist stuff, at least on my threads.

Would getting along be a possible solution?

I am confused about my xw anger with me. The marriage is over. Make things the best for the kids as possible. Your x's new wife is a part of his life now. She is also a part of your child's life.

Try to put aside your ill feelings toward each other and foucus on what is right for your kids. Reguardless of why you ended up divorced, don't make your children continue to pay the price.

Peace

Hi nina,

I'd also like to add that you do not in any way need to be around the OW.Even though your xH remarried,it will NEVER have to be ok that he had an A and then decided to marry that person.

In a perfect world it would be just peachy for everyone to get along and be happy no matter what but this type of situation does not WARRANT any understanding on your part if it makes you uncomfortable,even if it's until the end of time.

It is grossly unfair not to mention inappropriate that your xH should desire that you be exposed to that woman let alone your kids but children do need to see their father and so that will be their "cross to bear" as they grow older.The kids can be just as loved and supported throughout their life without *you needing to be a part of this demented circle of life your xH has now made for everyone in your family.

Just because your xH is remarried also does not and will NEVER excuse what he did and what that OW did for their own selfish gain.It is entirely possible to be completely focused on your children,even more so,if you do not have to worry that at every turn of events in your childrens lives your xH may bring along the new wife.

Like someone else mentioned,there are times when the kids can spend time with you and the ex and other times when they can spend it with xH and his W.For those people who are able to keep a relationship open with the new spouses,more power to them but don't feel as if you are any less a person because you haven't made it easy for xH and the D situation.Divorce is a sour experience no matter which way you look at it.

You CAN do something about this and that is keep setting your limits on what you will and will not allow in YOUR life.

O

Jacky,

Unlike School event's birthday's are different--

if your ex want's to have a birthday party for your D--he can--but YOU do not have to invite him
or even let him know YOU are throwing a b-day party for her at all--

I have b-day parties for the kids--my ex has b-day parties for the kids--and the kids actually like it this way--they have two parties celebrated in different ways--

School event's you really can't prevent him from being at let alone prevent him from bringing NW--
as He is their parent--But you can avoid speaking to them--if need be--

If they come up to you--just politely turn and walk away <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hello Nina,

I did not read everyone's responses so if someone else suggested this than just take it as me concurring with them (unless Sub than I am not).

Why not discuss this issue with the therapist. It seems your children do not wish to have contact with her for now. Maybe you could get a plan implamented where the children get use to being with their dad first and than slowly introduce the OW = NW. I mean it must be hard on them becuase they have not seen him in years and now he wants the Walton's family portrait with the OW included.

I would also sit down with the children and just say I know you want Mom and Dad only in the same room for all your celebrations but at this point it is not going to happen. Try to explain to them why you feel the way you feel. I am not one of these people who perscribes to the believe that everything must be done for the sake of the children. Do the children really want to see Mom and/or Dad suffering? I bet the answer would be 100% no.

Your ex is pushing to hard for a relationship to happen that he has not fostered in a long time. At some point I think if you have to maybe think about going back to court to have things changed. It seems your children feel that things are going to fast. Hence, the desire for you to be there when the meet with him.

PS ignore sufdb.

MoiNouvelle,

You said a couple things that really struck me--

*he wants the Walton's family portrait with the OW included.


*Your ex is pushing to hard for a relationship to happen that he has not fostered in a long time.

TR--Jacky, it could be he's pushing this so hard because he's trying to prove to him, her and other's that they really are happy--but how can they be--if they feel they have to force their relationship on others??

I do not invite x to birthday parties any more. I don't fo out of my way to tell him when they are. I plan what I want. And I allow him to plan parties for them. His are usually just his family. Mine are for the friends. The last time I invited him to a party was about 6 years ago. Then I told him that I didn't want him there because I was uncomfortable with that situation but the child wanted him to come so he could drop by for a few minutes but that was all.

Now, there was no OW in our marriage, so I was spared part of your pain.

Right now, I hate my x. He's trying to twist my arm and make a choice I'm not happy with. A life choice of where to send son to school - the child with the learning difference and almost no social skills. So like his father.

And W#2 doesn't like me because I think so little of the life choices she and her family have made. So, I think she is avoiding me. At least she knows I don't like my children having a stepsister who had a baby at 21 without a husband. And a stepbrother who was married and dating - maybe married and engaged - at the same time. And lost his drivers license and job due to a DUI arrest. And got married in November and the baby shower is in February. I don't know why she would think I would not want them as role models for my children. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Nina - I can understand your feelings of anger and resentment and that this is difficult for you. I am sure you want the best for your kids, though and that is not always the easiest path.

I am the second wife. I have an 8 yr old step daughter. My H's exw has gone above and beyond the call of duty in 'tolerating' me. We began dating very shortly after their divorce and she was initially quite bitter about the situation. That being said, she did NOT talk negatively about me to their daughter and did not attempt to control her exh's behavior. I think maybe we BOTH worked to make this work out so well.

Initially, I kept myself out of the picture as much as possible. I did not speak with the exw on the phone, I did not pick up their daughter for visitation, I did not go to her school events and extra curricular activities. I did interact with my step D when she was over at Dad's and I did build a relationship directly with her. I did always remind her to behave and treat her mother with respect. I did help her make crafts and cards for her mother for all of the holidays ad sometimes just because. We never ever once spoke negatively of her mother in her presence.

Her mother, for her part, acted cordially whenever we did end up by chance in the same place at the same time. She never once put her daughter in a position to choose and she never once dicsouraged her daughter from having a relationship with me.

When my H and I got married, it was *very* small service held out of town. We paid for lodging so the exW and daughter could come along. The exW actually attended my wedding, and no, it wasn't easy for her. HOWEVER...she behaved gracefully and allowed her daughter to be in the wedding. My family members each took the time to pull his exW aside and let her know what an impressive woman and great example for her D that she was. I also thanked her from the bottom of my heart for she was willing to do something relatively uncomfortable for her to benefit her daughter. This doesn't mean we always like each other or even at all, but it does mean we respect the situaton and the child above all else.

Now, I am not saying you have to go this far, but you CAN be a bigger person about this situation and it WILL benefit your children in the long run. If your children cannot foster a good relationship with their step-mom it will hurt their relationship with their father and that will affect them their entire lives. Your exH may not be acting in the most sensitive way to give you your time to grieve, but you CAN be the bigger person here.

And regardless of who/what you think sufdb is, the advice given was spot on. Take the responsibility for your part and make sure you really are putting the kids first.

Best of Luck

~piggle~

If my XH gets married to a woman he met after our split... I don't know... maybe one day I'd talk to her, just for my son and his father relationship's sake... moreover, to see if my son is SAFE when visiting his dad in HER home too...

If he gets married to OW (although she wasn't ONLY nor main reason I left him!) - never, ever she'd step into my house!
I'd never badmouthing her (in front of my son;-) nor be obstacle for THEIR relationship with my son (if safe and well mannered) either... but nothing more! NEVER!

And I don't believe that THAT is bad sample for your kids, moreover, you show them that is good to have boundaries with people who hurt you, don't respect you, take you for granted (etc!) - WHOEVER THEY ARE.

Thanks for all the replies.

I think we have resolved some of the issues for the time being, and we had a great talk about these things recently. X has agreed not to try and force her into my private situations with the kids (ie: birthdays)and I have told him that I am going to get to the point where her being at public events won't bother me, but that it is going to take time.

Piggle, your H's X wife is doing a great job and I commend her. But the situation is not the same. YOU did not help take her X out of the house. My X's wife did. And I think I am entitled to anger over that, even though it is so long ago now. I told him just a few days ago that had he left me for her, but married someone else in the long run, it just wouldn't matter to me. He understood this.

My X and I have been able to sort this out for now, and we will see what happens when the next thing comes along.

We both want an amicable relationship for the sake of the children, and we are going to try to keep that paramount. This is a good step for us. Maybe no more game playing now on either side.

Jacky