Lost, i can't respond in depth but i can tell you i am in the same place as your H right now. it sounds as though you are writting about me. the question about "is my wife like you?" how could i know that? obviously in someways you are alike and it has brought you both to same place. that is why i appreciate hearing from you. to help me try to understand.<p>Rosco, where are you with your relationship now?<p>h

HOL, sorry i have been so long getting back with you. I have read your recent posts along with the others who have written. Man, I'll tell you what i think. I agree with parts of what another has told you. He said that you need to pick a date to make up your mind. What I agree with is that you need to make up your mind to heal and restore your marriage.<p>You see, I think that you do love your wife and your family. You loved your marriage before these revelations (of course some things needed to be worked on, but it was a marriage that you wanted). I do believe that you can have these wounds healed. I do believe that you can have the hurt between you and your wife healed. I do believe that you can get beyond this.<p>But here is the rub. You have got to decide that you will. You have got to decide that your love for your wife and your marriage is something that you are willing to fight for and work on.<p>Until you make up your mind to do this, the grave you are living in will only get deeper. Nothing is going to happen magically. Time alone is not going to heal this wound. Nobody has the magic words that are going to release you from the grips of this terrible anger and hurt. Nobody has an explanation that is going to ease your heart and mind.<p>The day is either going to come that you say "I want this to end and I want to find healing" or the day will come that you will say "It's too much, I can't live like this, I must end this marriage."<p>I think that if you take too long to make up your mind your wife is going to make the decision for you. She has wronged you and in a grievous way. She is at fault for where your marriage is today, but she cannot pay for it indefinately. If she cannot be forgiven and the bitterness cannot be laid aside, she cannot live in this marriage as surely as you cannot. She will only be able to withstand things as they are for a while. I do not know how long she will be able to live with things as they are, but time is surely not on your side.<p>HOL, I think what I have said in the past is true. I think that your wife is a deeply wounded soul. I think she did the things she did in an attempt to fill the holes in her heart. She made terrible decisions. She made horrible decisions. She did things that break your heart. She has unknowingly rationalized those actions to spare her own heart. <p>Can you deal with that? Will you deal with that? Are you willing to try?<p>The ball is in your court. Nobody else can make a decision for you, nobody else can make it better. You can ask a thousand more questions but nobody has an answer that is going to lift this from your shoulders. It is not out there.<p>In my humble opinion, your decision is: "Do I want to restore and heal my relationship with my wife or not." <p>If you want to heal it, it can happen if you choose it. If you don't make a decision to heal things in your home, they will continue to eat you alive. It will eat away your heart and life, it will consume your love for her, and your actions will eat away her love for you.<p>That's tough medicine, but I think thats where it is at.

<small>[ July 21, 2004, 11:00 PM: Message edited by: Roscoe ]</small>

Roscoe, is yours a similar situation as mine and lost's. how long ago did you find out? you think of it everyday still? is that what i have to look forward to? i think of it every day for the past 1yr 9 mos. and i am so sick of it i could _ _ _ _.<p>Lost, very nice poem. i have read it may times and will read it many more times. i hope your sincere i don't know how to recognize/trust sincerity anymore.<p>w2b, you are very correct in everything you say if she feels she must go then she will go. i really don't have much to look back on that makes me think of good times if i did this would be a little different for me, maybe!! And i have set a date..<p>hol<p>[ January 16, 2002: Message edited by: h o l ]</p>

Hello Guys,<p>Thank you all for your encouraging words. I feel sort of the odd gal out, but I believe your insights may help me in my quest to save my marriage.

I think H wouldn't believe I was eating humble pie if it hit him in the face. He thinks I'm just saying what I can to justify what I've done in my past. That all women justify it somehow - just like anybody that was abused as a child has a right to commit crimes or blame emotional instability on it. I would say, yea, sadly, that makes sense - but H just sees it as an excuse for not being responsible for your actions. <p>He tells me that his previous sex life wasn't that great and that it was just to gain some experience, so it really doesn't count. It doesn't compare to mine. He thinks he doesn't compare either. He feels like he had "idiot" tatooed on his forehead.<p>He doesn't compare - not even close but for a different reason, of course. I can't even read that stupid poem without tears running down my face. What a mess I've made. He thought he had a prize when in truth, he got schmucked. He asks me things like, "Why did I have to be the one to fall in love with you?" "Why did you pick me to have kids with?" <p>I used to write H a lot of letters. I wrote the poem because I told H I didn't have any more I could say, so I wasn't going to write to him anymore until he could decide what he wanted out of the rest of his life. Now I just write to myself (and this post). Lately, I find myself becoming more easily frustrated. Why won't he even try to understand? I feel like something has to give soon. <p>He doesn't know what he wants. He feels like he missed out. Do you guys feel that way too? Do you think women are more capable to forgive? Is it even possible for a man to put himself in the position of being vulnerable again? How can I insure I'm not making a fool out of him again? I don't think I can...<p>H wonders how I could not have felt shame all these years - he doesn't believe I ever did. I wish I could make him see how he healed me...<p>But anyway, HOL - I hope you're hanging in. Please tell me, does your wife tell you she loves you?

A desperate thought as an aside - have any of you guys out there ever thought about hypnotherapy to help focus your thoughts on the present vs. the past?

Hi Lost,<p>quote:
"He thinks he doesn't compare either."<p>i agree, it's to many to be compared to!<p>________________________________________________
quote:
He feels like he had "idiot" tatooed on his forehead."<p>why wouldn't he Lost i certain do?
_______________________________________________<p>"He asks me things like, "Why did I have to be the one to fall in love with you? Why did you pick me to have kids with?" <p>i ask/think those same questions and the answer i come up with is the others new your reputation so they really weren't an option for long term commitment. sorry but althought guys do like having sex with easy women they really don't get very excited about marrying one. thats just a fact of life, you knew that my wife knew that and thats why the lies.
_______________________________________________<p>quote:
"Why won't he even try to understand?" <p>how many lies associated with this issue has he caught you in? how many stories have you fabricated to buffer the blow tryin to protect your poor sad stupid hubby?
________________________________________________
quote:
"How can I insure I'm not making a fool out of him again?"<p>don't lie ever again. it may not help because i consider everything a lie to be safe. he probably does too! the last thing he wants or needs is you to protect him with more of your lies.
_________________________________________________
quote:
"Please tell me, does your wife tell you she loves you?" <p>all of the time! more then ever, why the change of heart i wonder?. she wants to keep the family together and so do i.<p>Sorry to sound so negative but thats the new me!
hol<p>[ January 17, 2002: Message edited by: h o l ]</p>

in reply to LOST...yes, i do tell him i love him. every day. in many ways. with all my heart. but i fear i am still going to loose him. <p>thanks to all who have written to help. i pray it does.

<small>[ July 21, 2004, 11:02 PM: Message edited by: Roscoe ]</small>

things have been going really well. how are you Lost?<p>hol

Hol,
You are not alone. My husband lied to me, too. One of the things he lied about is a felony, and he was arrested (but not prosecuted) for it. When he told me, he just thought about himself, and how sorry he was for himself that he got caught and how he was glaed he didn't go to jail. I don't know if my situation is better or worse than yours, since my husband will at least do anything to make me happy. It's hard to trust him though, because as you said, you want to predict what your spouse is going to do and know what you can expect from them. I asked my husband if he ever cheated on anyone, and he told me "No". I had always told myself I would never marry someone who cheated, because they would cheat again. He lied about that, he did cheat. At least it was not full sex, but it was still cheating, and he would have done it if he'd had the chance.<p>I hate to tell you that YES, statistically speaking, the more people you sleep with before marriage, the more likely you are to cheat. I wish I could remember the name of the study, but I took a class in college on marriages and families, and this was in it.<p>It hurts so much, it really does. About six months later, I finally don't cry every day. I've never been angry or mad at him, it hurts so much all I can do is cry if I think about it. Thing is, I really need a chance to be angry about it or something, then maybe I can finally just put it in the past forever. I don't really think it will ever be in the past, though. It affects him as well. He doesn't want to have sex nearly as much as I do, and I think it's because he treated sex so poorly before we were married. I'm pretty sure you understand the feeling of "I just wish this was over and done with".

PG, i know the feeling very well. i wish you could remember the name of that study or more detail of it.

Hol - I almost didn't post again because I get so discouraged when I read how you reply to me. I thought I'd give it one more go, though.<p>I don't compare H to anybody. Why is it you guys feel like making love is a competition? I just don't get it. I feel like what we had is special because we truly loved each other - he thinks it isn't special at all anymore...<p>I have to keep telling myself that my husband was not an "idiot" to fall in love with me. I am smart, pretty nice looking, have a good job and am a good mother. In reality, my H and I are alot alike except for this one thing. I truly believe he brought out the best in me and for that I'd call him a miracle worker, not an idiot. Am I undeserving of love? Maybe. I really thought I had been given a new life - a chance to start over and do it right. Raise our kids with a strong belief in themselves so they'd be better than I was. Maybe I was just kidding myself. Maybe this is what I deserve instead.<p>"He asks me things like, "Why did I have to be the one to fall in love with you? Why did you pick me to have kids with?"
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>i ask/think those same questions and the answer i come up with is the others knew your reputation so they really weren't an option for long term commitment. sorry but although guys do like having sex with easy women they really don't get very excited about marrying one. thats just a fact of life, you knew that my wife knew that and thats why the lies. <hr></blockquote><p>I wasn't trying to "trick" him into marrying me. I lied because I was ashamed. Wrong thing to do definitely, but not because I was trying to put one over on him. As I say that, though, I wasn't willing to tell the truth, so maybe somehow I was. I just thought if he loved me, then he loved me and it wouldn't make a difference. I was wrong.<p>I'm real discouraged and when i look in the mirror I hate what I see. He doesn't understand why I feel bad. He thinks I had the time of my life and that the life we had is just boring compared to it. The life we had was my dream come true! I single-handedly threw away the most important gift I could give, ruined my marriage, destroyed my H's confidence in himself and me, put our children's lives as they know it at risk and he wonders why I feel bad? He looks at me sometimes with disgust and I feel like such trash. How can I not feel bad?<p>I don't know what to hope for anymore. Sometimes I just wish this life was over, but then I'm really afraid of what eternity might bring for someone like me. I honestly don't know how long I'm going to be able to do this. It doesn't sound like time makes it get any better....

Lost, sorry if my replies are offensive to you. i do want you to post here because your replies give me a reference to how my W may be feeling (i think it helps?). She does not discuss this topic with me other then damage control situations.
my replies are how i feel towards my wife not you. i don't know you.. thats funny i don't really know my W either do i or at least i didn't know her..
do my replies sound anything like your H may feel. maybe i'm saying things i feel that your H is not expressing but could also be feeling. could that help?
i don't know what i'm saying. i'm just trying!!
h

Something else to add...Roscoe, you left out one thing that a good wife (or husband) is...<p>A good wife is Trustworthy. <p>Once trust is broken, it takes a long time to be rebuilt. It can be rebuilt, so NO this kind of feeling doesn't have to last forever. I count myself lucky because my husband is willing to do anything to gain my trust again. Of course, I also have never said mean things to him about this...just that it hurts me and I feel insecure about it. If I was calling him names or doubting our marriage, then it might be a different story.

PG, your right! trust is the most important
hol

<small>[ July 21, 2004, 11:02 PM: Message edited by: Roscoe ]</small>

Roscoe, my highs are lower and less frequent , my lows aren't as low but more frequent.
h

h o l...<p>No a woman having many partners before marriage does not make her more prone to having affairs. There are plenty of women whose husbands were there first and they still have affairs. <p>Instead of thinking it makes her bad.. realize that although she had plenty of choices, you were the one she picked. <p>What more do you want to know of your wife’s past then what you do know?<p>Of course your telling your wife that you want her to leave will make a change in her. If one partner changes, the other will too. Life is a dance…. If you’ve been doing the tango, and suddenly you change to a waltz, your partner has to change to a waltz or trip and get hurt.<p>You may be obsessing on this for a few reasons…. You are severely depressed. Obsessing on this keeps you from having to face today. It keeps you from having to deal with your contribution to the current state of your marriage. It gives you incredible power in your marriage. You have her jumping through hoops with this one.<p>If you are obsessing on the past, the way to change it is to ignore the thoughts and concentrate on the present. Just do it. I can give you a very good reason to top this… you are loosing your wife a little each day. One of you has to stop chewing on the past and simply change your behavior. It’s simple.. and yet so hard.<p>I assume that liar2 is your wife. Liar2, why have you chosen that name? It is a put down to you… please get a much more positive one. Every time you use it you are calling yourself a liar. Please do not collude in this game for the sake of your marriage.<p>You both may find this article interesting ….. <p> The Walkaway Wife Syndrome <p>Have you read the MB material? Have you done the emotional needs and history questionnaires? <p>H o l … if you want your wife to be honest with you about her past, you have to make it safe for her to tell you. Right now I’m sure she is afraid to tell you anything, as it will all be used against her. She will tell when you are in a place where you will not use it to punish her.<p>Liar2 (I hate that name) in addition to the MB material I suggest you take a look at the books “Divorce Busting” and “Getting Through to the Man you Love”

Thanks for the posts from zorweb and Roscoe. It helps me and I'm certain it helps lost as well. I will not elaborate about my situation but I am getting stronger about my worth and I am deserving of forgiveness. I may never receive it from my husband but I continue to make everyday fresh for me and hope that one day he will come into the present and put the past in perspective. I wish he could understand that he has been the most important person in my life and that I will always love him. I can hope that time will heal. ( p.s. zorweb, I don't know how to change my screen name or I would. Thanks.)