If so, how did that go? Why did you choose that route? People do this, it seems, to create a 'safe' environment for sharing potentially volatile things. If you chose this route, did you initiate the counseling with that understanding with your spouse, ahead of time? Or did the topic of ending the marriage come up in the course of?

All thoughts/experiences welcome.

I saw a counsellor for the purpose of leaving my husband. He'd pull a guilt trip on me everytime I'd ask him to leave, even though our marriage was completely unsalvageable. (He was a homosexual with tendencies to lean toward pedophilia).....

My counsellor fixed *ME*....My husband refused to see her, even when she asked to see him. That only strengthened my thoughts about our marriage being over.

All in all, I'd say that it was the best money I ever spent....

Many times a ws will reluctantly go to counseling in order to "pawn off" the bs and get them support as a way in ending the marriage. (Frank Pittman, Private Lies)

I don't recall your story, (the name yes & I'm too lazy to go look it up <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> )
From your signature:
Entered into affair in 1994
Stopped affair in 2001
Affair discovered in 2003; 7 months later BW contacted me; I agreed to meet with her
She had an affair from 94-01 and you discovered it in 03?
Then you split up for 7 months and only recently got back together?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Chris -CA123:
<strong> Many times a ws will reluctantly go to counseling in order to "pawn off" the bs and get them support as a way in ending the marriage. (Frank Pittman, Private Lies)
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wow, Chris, v. good point! And one I can (sadly) confirm out of my own experience.
WW reluctantly decided to come with me to MC, never committed to a common goal of reconciliation, and construed every utterance of myself or MC as proof that we dont fit toghether and never have! Interestingly, I found that the MC was able to cleverly show that we do have an awful lot in common (my WW and I that is <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ), but he and I were sadly alone in noticing this. After 10 sessions or so, MC threw in the towel as we couldnt agree on a common goal (like, let's work towards reconciliation).

No, no, I'm the WS/OP. I began an affair in 9/94 and ended it (for good) in 01. Long after that fact, 2 years, affair partner's W discovered the affair & contacted me. That was last summer.

So that was the first half. The 2nd half is now. Having ended the affair & hung on silently for years, I now need to do something (anything!) about my marriage.

Hope that clarifies.

<small>[ January 28, 2004, 05:28 PM: Message edited by: everlong ]</small>

Whoops, I guess everyone falls silent when it's the OP that wants to talk about divorce after an affair...

People are going to get out of counseling whatever they want or don't want,no matter what circumstances brought them there in the first place.

Some people do go to MC to learn how to interact with their WS more agreeably when D is in the future and other's go because they feel "cooerced",etc.If a couple goes to a counselor for the purpose of saying that "I want a D" or "it's over" it will still be painful and it remains to be seen just what benefit a counselor may have at that time.

This very question came up for me by my counselor.I told him that I do NOT want that to be the place my WH tells me he wants out because that is my "safe" place and I wouldn't want that painful memory to be there in the room every time I went to see my counselor alone, otherwise I would have to change counselors.

O

I am going to have to suggest and set up the counseling, I know that. We have been in MC and he was in IC for a short time as a result but did not continue.

I have sought counseling several times with a certain objective in mind and been able to achieve it. So I know that both parties have to 'want to' go. And I know that it can be a racket, too, with counselors giving questionable advice to maintain paying clients.

Of course, nobody knows him like I do. I was just looking for direct personal experiences with this.

I have heard of MC who also help couples to have a more amicable divorce. I am curious if you told your husband of your long term affairs. If you are no longer interested in being married than why don't you file for divorce and move on. Why draw out this process. Divorce is going to hurt regardless how you do it. At least if you get it over quickly the sooner the healing will begin and the sooner one can move on with one's life.

I'm going through a divorce and as a result am getting professional counseling. I've been going for about 10 months and the experience is a good one and has been VERY helpful. If your spouse is willing to go the the counselor generally sets up the initial ground rules. It's a safe place to be, and if you're open to it you can benefit from it. It doesn't save or end marriages in my opinion. It can help you to understand and accept what you do and do not have power over and it can help you see things from a differant perspective. It can give you tools/ideas to make changes in yourself.

yosh, you wrote

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I have heard of MC who also help couples to have a more amicable divorce. I am curious if you told your husband of your long term affairs. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I had one long-term affair, and no I have not told him. He has been physically and verbally abusive in the past and I want the disclosure to be moderated.

This is one of the things I would bring up if he agreed to go to counseling (for any purpose). I don't know why I stay married and I don't know why he does, either.

Thanks, gfranco, for the CONSTRUCTIVE response!!

Did it ever occur to you that the events, you having a long term affair and you not being happy in your marriage, and your husband being irritated, are somehow connected?

Not trying to be sarky here, but for me it is clear that unless you come clean, adress the root causes of missing trust etc, your marriage doesnt improve and you dont even start to give it a chance.

I agree with you that such a discussion and disclosure might best be MC moderated - however, are you sure that the outcome is all a foregone conclusion?

If what you want is an amicable divorce, another option is a Divorce Mediator rather than using lawyers.
These people, typically lawyers, have also been trained in psychology and control, and can help resolve issues which might be dragged out by real divorce lawyers.

I have been to 2 sessions with STBXW. We both agreed that we should do whatever we could to remain on the best terms possible for the sake of our children and ourselves.

D came up for us with first MC. We decided to go to another after that w/ D in mind so we could salvage what we have left. My hopes are to regain some of what we lost.

MC is helping us communicate in a safe, controlled environment. Both on neutral ground. He is very pro marriage so up to now, he has been discussing topics with us to help us make sure we are taking the right route.(We both have different ideas of what the right route is)

As octobergirl said, you will get out of it what you want and so will BS.

Reading your post, it is unclear what you want to get out of MC

I don't think BS wants to get anything out of anything right now. Anything he does for himself or our marriage has arisen from my initiative. As I said, we have done marriage counseling, and he stopped individual counseling. If it were left to him, we would go on just as we are til death do us part. And death will come pretty damn soon for him if he doesn't take some bold steps in his own health management, a subject I've brought up recently (in the most non-threatening way possible).

I'm clearer today on what I want out of it. I want to re-visit why we got married and determine what it would take (on each of our parts) to rebuild--and then decide to do that or not, and uncover individual issues that need to be worked on in conjunction with that. The communication between us is nonexistent--we coexist amicably for the kids' sake and that is starting to be odious to me. It is as dishonest as having an affair and an equal disrespect to the institution of marriage.

Did it occur to any of you that my spouse is more than just betrayed? I wonder this because you focus so much on the fact that I had an affair and seem to attribute the 'why' completely to my wrongdoing...but I guess that's the way of it here.

In fact, off and on through the marriage, he either dismissed or turned aside my attempts to discuss and work on things. It was never okay for me to ask anything of him. He never wanted to examine himself (in therapy or out) and grow. My theory is that he was initially attracted to me because I was emotionally dependent on him, and we grew apart because I became more independent and in fact threatening in many ways. He is not comfortable with any kind of assertiveness on my part at all, yet is so passive himself that if I don't assert myself nothing will get done.

So I think we need to decide based on who we are today, how to proceed from here: divorce amicably, agree to co-parent in the same household with some changes I believe are needed, or determine whether it is possible to rebuild something. Based on the observable level of his initiative over the last 15 years (that is, pre-affair), I do not believe that this is possible, but I feel he should be given a chance to prove me wrong...

I am perfectly willing to examine and change things within myself from this day forward and admit my wrongs. But you know, I have never heard from him an admission that he did anything wrong, ever (even the domestic violence incident and the many incidents of verbal abuse). Neither has he been able to discuss his previous marriages in any even mildly introspective way.

But, all that aside, he is a human being and deserves to be treated with compassion and respect, in or out of the marriage, at a minimum. Maybe what this is all about is me not wanting to be the bad guy, and I hang on out of guilt. Or do not want to be accused of taking 'the easy way out'. Or want an objective professional opinion that this marriage is one that should not or cannot be saved. Or all of the above.

Yes. Entering the crucible at the same time. (And knowing what the crucible is.)

Of course, I wouldn't say that--come talk to this counselor so we can figure out how to get divorced. I just think that that's the likely outcome.

But I also wrote elsewhere that the right thing to do seems to be, although I don't think he is capable of doing the work needed to save the marriage (given evidence at hand and in the past), to give him a chance to prove me wrong.

There are also things I am pretty sure I can't do and others I flat won't do. And I think that's what I'm really really anxious to reveal and discuss.

Wish me luck!!

I agreed to MC because my own longterm therapist suggested it would be a good way for my H to 'hear' what I was saying--that I didn't believe I loved him anymore and wasn't sure what to do next. My H kept pushing for more time together, talk, talk, talk and it was just too much pressure on me, so we separated (several months now). We continue to go to MC, but I don't feel she's helped us. She's all for working on the marriage, I'm pretty sure I don't want to save it, so am coming to the conclusion that there's no point. My own therapist has suggested a separation with NO CONTACT so I can think without my H's constant pressure to reconcile. I believe that's what I'm going to do, so the MC will be on 'hold', at least for now.

EmeraldLady,

I see what you're saying--I myself really don't think the marriage can be saved, not just because of what's gone on (many other things besides the affair!) but what I've observed about his behavior when left to his own devices (i.e., no nagging from me about anything--let him do just as he pleases).

However, I am trying not to think in terms of the results of counseling. I arranged for the appointment, just for me, to discuss marital/relationship issues. The counselor called me at work to confirm the appointment, and then asked if it was ever okay for him to call the other (home) number (Are you and your husband still living together? Does he know that you've contacted a counselor?). I said sure, call wherever you like, if he asks, I'll just tell him I'm seeing a counselor. Anyway, my plan was to ask him to also attend, after a while.

I'm going to put it like, "What do *you* want to *do* about this marriage, husband? I'm out of airspeed, altitude and ideas...so let me know your thoughts. I have been seeing a counselor and it has helped me tremendously in identifying...blah blah. So I thought you could come too, sometime." And just proceed like that. (It will take on a life of its own, I'm sure.) But I want at least some of it to (appear to be) be a matter of choice for him--since I have initiated (yet again). I'll try to ignore that, just this once.

I mean, there's no rush to get divorced. It isn't like I'm spoiling to run off to Barbados with my tennis instructor...all I want is to start living in some different way than I live now, start living an honest life. I know some of what that means, but not all.