<small>[ March 08, 2004, 05:23 AM: Message edited by: KitG ]</small>

My H has decided to leave since I won't accept his EA.
Good. You shouldn't accept it.

He even promises he will have more and that's just him
He promises he will have even more what?

However, we own a house and we would like for me to stay in the house so the kids won't be disrupted.
That’s good. You should stay regardless of what he says.

There is no way I can refinance and qualify on my own, however, I believe I can make the payments. H is willing to delay getting his equity until I sell in 2-14 years, whatever I decide.
Good.

So we are considering buying a 2nd house for him before divorcing.
Very, very bad idea.

So we would each be on the other's mortgage and we would quit claim.
The quitclaim has ONLY to do with the title to the house. It has NOTHING at all to do with the mortgage. If he quitclaims on your house and you were to quit paying on it in two years, HE will get stuck with the bill.

There would also be a provision that if I sold the big house and then *I* couldn't qualify for a new house due to being on his mortgage,
I’m confused? There is nothing that could be put into a divorce decree which would make you qualify/not qualify for a house. Current/previous mortgages and credit would make you not qualify. He has no say if you qualify or not.

We both earn decent money and have good credit, so neither of us are worried about the other not paying.
Until his new girlfriend starts crying about it.

My motivation is not having the stress of moving added on top of the stress of divorce.
Why are you divorcing? Haven’t you tried to work it all out?
Have you read the stuff on this site (start with the links below).

<small>[ February 02, 2004, 05:45 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

Kit,

This sounds like a very, very bad idea. Either you two are getting divorced, or you're not. It doesn't sound to me like you are anywhere near ready for the divorce process.

When you mentioned helping each other get started in a new house, that might be a good idea, but there are limits. Once divorced, you must make a property settlement or you will still be tied to your stbx, and subject to each others wishes and whims.

If you were making a clean break and one needed to help the other out with a swing loan to get started in a new home, well, OK, but not repeat NOT some obligation such as a mortgage. Once you divorce, you are responsible for you and he is resonsible for him. Don't make up legal entanglements that ensnare your future.

Sure would like to echo what Chris pointed out. How about reading some of Dr. Harley's articles and taking a shot at saving this marriage?

<small>[ March 08, 2004, 05:23 AM: Message edited by: KitG ]</small>

So do I just sit around for another year pretending to accept the EA?
No.

If I lay down the law,
What does this mean?

he's gone
Not necessarily.

and since he refuses to work on the M,
Then give him a reason to work on the marraige.

it seems like I should just quit fighting him wanting to leave.
Yes, you should quit fighting him. Not to say you should give him your blessing, but just leave it alone.
If he says he wants to leave, simply respond, “I don’t want you to” and leave it at that.

Read up all the links below.

It is definitely a bad idea to each be on each others mortgages. If you cannot get the mortgages separately, no competent loan officer would give two mortgages to the two of you. It makes no sense from the banks end or from your end, as it appears that you may have good credit, but are possibly financially stressed.

If you work on your marriage, do it right. If you decide to divorce, do not entangle yourselves further. It will lead to a nightmare down the road.

Hi KitG

I am so sorry that this has happened in what you describe as an otherwise great marriage.

You are absolutely right to "make an issue out of it".
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He says he's not going to change b/c he doesn't want to and he doesn't care if it means he loses his M and family. He says at least he'll be happy and free to talk to whoever he wants.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">..classic selfish FOGese talk. This is an affair which is going somewhere.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I later found out her marriage was in trouble due to her 1 PA and 3 EA's. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">..what a track record. She's infecting your M with her problems.

You're being too "nice" about it, since you abviously love him so much (my guess is that he's just as crazy about you). He's living the good life at the moment, having you, his dream wife at home, and the attractive, needy, ego-boosting, sexy female "friend".
Cut off your love from him, and don't give him the benefit of having his cake and eating it. Even by going into a joint venture with the properties, you're tying yourself to him, and this will be comfortable to him. Since you have already been in counselling, and he's refused to even acknowledge the problem, you should separate from him. He should move out NOW. This is also in line with Harley principles.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">H is willing to delay getting his equity until I sell in 2-14 years, whatever I decide.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">..Any good father would do this for his kids. Good.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So we would each be on the other's mortgage and we would quit claim </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">..FORGET about any further entanglements.

There is still plenty of hope for your marriage, if you do not make things too comfy for him. Be reasonable and polite, but FIRM. Make clear by your ACTIONS that you don't condone his behaviour, and his refusal to stop is a betrayal of your trust and marriage. Don't be a doormat.
My hope is that your hubby will snap out this fog, or that the young husband of the OW will adjust his features and attitude.

Good luck to you, and continue with counselling. Sounds like you have a good one.
muzohead

<small>[ March 08, 2004, 05:24 AM: Message edited by: KitG ]</small>

<small>[ March 08, 2004, 05:25 AM: Message edited by: KitG ]</small>

Man's point of view.

How about taking some direction, from the posts here, and from the MB articles? Let me repeat, you don't sound ready for all of this.

Please read further on Plan A. Laying down the law probably doesn't save a whole lot of marriages. Ultimatums given by a spouse are often a reason to leave a relationship, but never, never ever a reason to stay. Spouses don't stay for ultimatums, they stay for love, to love and to be loved. That is plan A in a nutshell.

Drawing on my own personal experience, I don't believe any of the EA stuff you are talking about. Given what you have told us so far, there damn sure is a physical attraction at the very least. I say that because I'm 61 and I know maybe a couple hundred younger women. And I've known several hundred other young women in my life time. Point is, not one of them has ever asked me to take "sexy pictures of them" for their husbands or anyone else. You'll probably find this hard to believe, but not one of them has ever felt a need to disrobe in my presense! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

In fact, the only females who were twenty years younger than me that I've ever seen undressed were that way only because I had to change their soiled diapers. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Yep, I'm the master of the twenty two second diaper change, and many of my grandchildren and nephews and nieces kids had a diaper change on the tailgate of my pickup. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> And by the time they are about four years old, they have all learned enough modesty to keep their clothes on when I'm taking pictures!

Your hubby seems to have a pattern of "at work" relationships. And it sounds like you were there too at one time. Please don't allow your own history to cloud your vision.

I've run across the office romance too. There was a time when the sparks were really flying with a lady who worked for me, and we both knew it. The way we handled it was we decided just to hold our distance and stay away from each other. There is a simple reason for that: Sometimes we have a responsibility to care enough about another person to say no. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

And I would suggest to you that if you hubby really cares about this young woman, he will accept the responsibility to say no.

Finally, you seem to think that you and your hubby will always have good jobs and make the big bucks. Got a flash for you. If his superiors find out about his conduct, and in particular if his company gets sued (EEOC), sexual harassment, etc., because of his conduct, your hubby could find himself gainfully unemployed in an New York minute.

Kit, it isn't going to do you any good to get honest with your husband, or to get honest with us here on the board. You need to get Honest with yourself. You can't allow the roof over your children's heads to depend on his job. He has already placed that at risk by his behavior.

Please, Please, go back and read the basics and get into a Plan A.

<small>[ March 08, 2004, 05:25 AM: Message edited by: KitG ]</small>

<small>[ March 08, 2004, 05:26 AM: Message edited by: KitG ]</small>

KITG:

I agree with you. From what you've posted, you've been in PlanA for a while now, and it's time to change gears. If you continue being "understanding" for too long, you run the risk of being viewed by your H as a needy walkover willing to accept any behaviour from him. You have said in many ways that it's not acceptable, it's time to show it.

This may sound radical to you, but next time he says he's leaving, offer to help him pack. Plan B is when your spouse refuses to give up the affair as a condition of marriage. This is clearly happening here.

To put it into more simple everyday language, your H will become less and less attracted to you, simply by you being willing to sacrifice too much of your pride to save the M at "all cost". Don't make the mistake of far too many people who delay going into PlanB, simply because they love their spouses so much, or they're afraid of pushing them away.
Take your case, for instance: your H has on more than one occassion that he'd rather give up on YOU and his M, than give up on a relationship with a 22yr-old kid he met yesterday. Think about it. What do you risk by acting on your convictions and not allowing this to continue? You should in fact suggest to HIM to move out. He knows what the deal is, and what your conditions are.
I know I sound a bit hard-core, but in fact i agree whole-heartedly with the Harley's on this one..
1. He refuses no-contact ( <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> )
2. He goes couselling, but does not see the light (same as refusing to go for counselling, if he constantly refuses their "counsel") <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
3. He openly sees her ( you condone this, since you are aware )

To add to what Bumperii has said:

Some way into my marriage, about 9yrs, I met a woman through work, and we chatted always, since we seemed to get along well. However, it soon became clear that there was a bit of a "spark" between us. I did the only thing I could think of: I introduced her to my wife at the time, and they got on famously. I also told my wife why I did. I never put myself in a position to be alone with her. It's an immense ego-boost for an attractive woman to lean heavily on you emotionally...something to do with the male protective instinct, i guess.

Just another thought: if you and H were to go to MC, and not inform the C of the EA, what issues do you think would come up? This may sound a bit awkward, and I'm not excusing your H at all, but usually these things happen because of some lack, or some niggly little problem in the M. ...might be idea to try that angle.
..I should rephrase: not because of it, but it contributes to a set of circumstances which may temd to lower the WS' resistance to such behaviour. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

As for OW being a "bf"...IMHO you cannot have a friend of the opposite sex who is not a friend of BOTH in the M. Even a friend from shool, with some history, should be able to spend an evening with you AND your spouse.
There will be instances where the one spouse might excuse themselves, because the two friends are into catching up, or private jokes, the kind that 2 people with a history share together. Trust of such friendships are built up over time, and then it becomes perfectly acceptable to visit a friend alone, or do lunch, or whatever.

Do you honestly think you can spend an evening with your H AND his "bf"? Hve her over for dinner? Maybe you should invite OW and her H for dinner at your place. See what the reaction is. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

muzohead

<small>[ March 08, 2004, 05:26 AM: Message edited by: KitG ]</small>

Bad Idea.

Your "cakeman" won't be reasonable and stop his EA. Every counselor, 99% of women (as you said), and you, his wife, say he is wrong. But he won't be reasonable.

But you really think he will be reasonable about paying two mortgages? And you really think he will be reasonable about cooperating on divorce issues?

He is only saying that now so he can continue his "cakey" ways and get what he wants with no conflict.

He won't be reasonable now or then.

<small>[ February 04, 2004, 11:14 AM: Message edited by: wannabophim ]</small>

<small>[ March 08, 2004, 05:27 AM: Message edited by: KitG ]</small>

You are still making the assumption that he is going to act rationally. He made decide that he just isn't going to pay, regardless of the consequences. He has already decided to keep up his EA, regardless of the consequences.