Roscoe, do you ever feel/wonder that if you and your wife had discussed your situation more openly and honestly that you may have been able find some closure instead of not speaking of it and now your continuing to think of it every day years later.<p>h

<small>[ July 21, 2004, 11:06 PM: Message edited by: Roscoe ]</small>

Rocsoe,<p>You and i are very different, i will not spend the rest of my life thinking of this everyday. I will find some sort of closure either thru communication (which hasn't happened yet because My W chooses to lie instead of being honest,still) or thru my leaving and starting a new life without her. i want to always be with her but not like this.
____________________________________
quote:
"This was just too painful for her, because she so badly wanted to be everything I dreamed of."
____________________________________
i think this is also the case with my W and that is maybe why she con'ts to lie to me about this issue but that only takes her farther away from what i've always dreamed of. i'm sorry but i'm not willing to except anything but the truth.<p>do you really think your W has found true happiness this way or is she still feeling like you do inside. have you really done either of you a favor or have you just allowed both of you to always have this looming over your heads.

i will not do that, call me a [censored] but i will not be content just pretending everything is OK ever!!<p>Why have you done this it can't be doing either of you any good, is it really?<p>quote:
___________________________________
"For a while I got stuck on resenting her inability to communicate."
_______________________________
it's not her inability to communicate she is an intellegent woman it is her unwillingness to communicate and thats not enough.
h<p>[ January 29, 2002: Message edited by: h o l ]</p>

<small>[ July 21, 2004, 11:06 PM: Message edited by: Roscoe ]</small>

Roscoe, i'm not trying to be difficult but what do you mean by this?<p>
quote:
"But I would have loved to have some help."<p>h

Roscoe,<p>quote:________________________________________________
"When I say that what I don&#8217;t know scares me I mean to say that there will always be an uncertaintly and as long as I have this problem within me, the uncertainty will always scare me."
__________________________________________________<p> uncertainty of what?
that she will be unfaithful?
that you are not as good of a lover as others?
that there are to many others for her to compare you to?
that she will also lie about other matters if she feels it is ness.?
that she is not content with you after having so many others?
that you may not be as successful as some of the others?<p>what is the uncertainty you feel?<p>h

<small>[ July 21, 2004, 11:07 PM: Message edited by: Roscoe ]</small>

<small>[ July 21, 2004, 11:07 PM: Message edited by: Roscoe ]</small>

Roscoe,<p> does your wife know the extent that you think of this everyday?<p>h

I really don&#8217;t know. She knows I think a lot and she knows this is still in my head somewhere. I guess I may have given you a bit of a false impression: I don&#8217;t sit around contemplating this subject each and every day, although I admit, I did for a period of time. At this point its just something I carry around with me. It&#8217;s part of my identity. Especially when I think about sex, this often comes to mind. But lately I&#8217;ve really been out of new thoughts to think in this area, until I started reading this thread.

Roscoe, <p>quote: ______________________________
"At this point its just something I carry around with me. It’s part of my identity. Especially when I think about sex, this often comes to mind."
__________________________________<p>your freeking me out Roscoe!!<p>how long has it been? how long where you married before you found out? and how did you find out?<p>hope you don't mind answering these q's but i am learning something here.
h<p>[ January 30, 2002: Message edited by: h o l ]</p>

Dear hol,
Your question regarding numbers....NO, it really does not matter at all. It was before you, it has no bearing on her love for you.
I see someone has written they feel one with more sexual partners premarriage will find it easier to cheat. NO, i will adamantly disagree with this statement. Premarital sex and affairs? Show me the well researched proof that links these two very separate issues!
If you feel she is a high risk for std transmission then by all means get everyone tested and put that nightmare to rest. You all deserve that.
The issue that you feel she is lying to you about feelings is another story. Is is possible that her feelings are changing? That she is in flux? Certainly a lot has changed within her since she wrote those diaries. You should not hold her past against her, as she should not hold yours against you.
Do unto others......
forgive, built your marriage in the present and move past the pain.

<small>[ July 21, 2004, 11:08 PM: Message edited by: Roscoe ]</small>

quote:____________________________________________
The issue that you feel she is lying to you about feelings is another story. Is is possible that her feelings are changing? That she is in flux?
__________________________________________________<p>CL, please elaborate on this statement/ question.<p>
quote:_________________________________________
Nevertheless, In sexual situations visceral feelings of emasculation have a way of worming their way to the surface.
_________________________________________________<p>Yes they do Roscoe. <p>unlike you i did have a sexual past and she was aware of it so i was made to feel like i was the one with all the experience.she had very little experience she had a reputation to protect, how stupid do you think i feel? <p>h<p>[ January 31, 2002: Message edited by: h o l ]<p>[ January 31, 2002: Message edited by: h o l ]</p>

During most of this thread I have not made corrections or comments about what hol writes as I feel he must get answers in order to find his way back to me but on the issue of what I knew about his sexual past I must speak up and say that he did offer to tell me about his past because he had had many encounters and I declined to have him go through it. My answer then, as it would be now is that it is over and it is indeed "past". I did lie about my experiences but not with the intention of making him feel bad about his. I didn't want him to ever feel that there was anyone in my life more important than he was...and still is.

Hello hol,
Yes, I see that liar has come on and answered for herself. She is not lying to you out of malice-she has no malintent. She is saving you from what she feels would be hurtful exposures to her past-one that you obviously disapprove of.
HI Liar, nice to meet you and welcome.
She is being what we are expected to be as middle class god fearing women in american society.
Read The Dance of Anger by Beattie (think taht is how to spell the author). It will give you great insight into the female mind.
Liar, please read the concepts here regarding readical honesty. I do believe in MB and in honesty. Mind you, it is not without pain, as you are feeling now. Many of us here have suffered the pain of brutal honesty.....and it is amazing how we come out stronger and more in love. The key is RESPECT.
Okay, so your past hidden sexual exploits have caused pain to hol. Get it all out and deal with it. A marriage without honesty is void of true love and care. It is not up to either of you to judge who gets the truth-you both deserve it. It is up to both of you to accept what the other says at face value, to not JUDGE, to be fair.
We change, we grow, we falter. That is human nature. Best wishes to both of you. cl

CL, i would be interested to hear lost and liars response to your post.

Cl is right Hol, radical honesty is a must. And coupled with non-judgemental and respectful behavior, it makes the M stronger.<p>You must let your wife know that she can approach you and be able to tell you the most gut wrenching things and that you will not be judgemental and disrepectful towards her. <p>If I had known about this concept of radical honesty, I may have had a different marriage than the one I had and not be divorced now.<p>Good luck and God bless.<p>Joe

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by h o l:
<strong>Is a woman with 40 lovers in her past (before marriage) more likely or less likely to have affairs after marriage then a woman with 4 lovers in her past (before marriage)? is there any info that anyone knows of that discusses this behavior?
thanks, hol</strong><hr></blockquote><p>HOL, <p>I posted on your EN thread at the end of the thread...I posted some fairly weird post but I think they made good points....<p>Here's one of those and I'll put the others the next post...<p>[QUOTE]Originally posted by Anna2000:
[QB]h o l,<p>This may be a weird, VERY WEIRD way to look at it but okay some people say you have sex with every partner your partner has sex with before you, and their partner had sex with before them, this could lead into hundreds and thousands of people.<p>However, if this is the way people want to view it then theoretically you could, if you look at it that way in the long run, have had sex with more people than she did.<p>Here's an example...<p>Let's say a woman has sex with 35 men. Then those 35 men had sex with on average 5 people, those 5 other people on average had sex with 2 persons each...those people had sex on average with 1 person each.<p>The reason my numbers went down, is I think you said your wife was fairly young, so I figured the numbers should decline logically. I would think if you were say young when you did this, your chances of others having larges multiple partners would be less and their partners probably even less...<p>That's saying this woman had sex with well over 230 people.<p>Let's say the man had sex with only 12 women, but each on average had sex with 10 people, those 10 people had sex on average with 8 people each and those persons had sex on average with 5 person each and those people had sex with 2 people.<p>This means the man had sex with well over 292 people, which theoretically could mean the man had more sex partners than the woman. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Looking at this way...YOU could possibly have had more sexual partners than her. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Take care and I hope you can some day get past this numbers game.<p>ANNA

The other two posts on EN...<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Anna2000:
<strong>
Stuck on the thoughts of this thread.....<p>Okay, here's another way to look at it. A woman had sex with 35 men, one time each. Meaning she had sex with 35 men but really only had sex 35 times in her lifetime.<p>Let's say a man has sex with 5 women, two of those women he had sex with over and over, at least 50 times each; he had at sex over 105 times.<p>Which is the more experienced?<p>ANNA<p>ANNA</strong><hr></blockquote><p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Anna2000:
<strong>Here's another thought....<p>You have a choice....<p>Your choice is make love with your wife who has no known STD's but has had many sex partners and you have already exposed yourselves to each others germs in the past, or make love with a woman who in her entire lifetime only had sex with 1 (one) other person, the kicker is....that person was Magic Johnson...<p>Who would you choose to make love to???
ANNA<p>P.S.<p>I think I've thought this topic to death, and now that you guys probably have formed an opinion that I must be the weirdest thinker on<p> MB, I think I'll give it a rest...HEHE [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] <p>c'ya,<p>ANNA</strong><hr></blockquote><p>
Hol,<p>Just as in accounting when I am doing books for a company, numbers can be munipulated in so many ways!!!<p>[ February 02, 2002: Message edited by: Anna2000 ]<p>[ February 02, 2002: Message edited by: Anna2000 ]</p>